Crazy Turkey

Where do you feel Turkey is headed?


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samiha

---------
Staff member
:salam2:

I want your comments.......



Less Europe, More Islam
By Annette Grossbongardt

For almost half a century, Turkey has been pursuing European Union membership. With negotiations now started though, enthusiasm is waning. And the influence of Islam is on the rise.


AP
Turkey's road to the EU has always been a rocky one. But it may be getting even rockier.
At first glance, the "Sah Inn Suite" Hotel in Alanya looks no different from the average sunny resort along the Turkish Mediterranean coast: a bulky construction with a honeycomb of balconies, looking out over a generous swimming pool surrounded by parasols and lounge chairs. But, in fact, only men are allowed to take a refreshing plunge into these shimmering blue waters. Women vacationers at the Sah-Hotel swim in a strictly isolated pool for women. And what about a cold beer? Forget it. There is no alcohol here; instead, a mosque offers communion with God.

Why the piety? It's an effort by hoteliers to show their consideration for observant Muslims who want to enjoy "a vacation in keeping with religious laws." And the options for such devout holidays are growing in secular Turkey. Islamic-style swimsuits are the new rage on the beaches and around pools across the country. Nowadays, observant women venture onto the sands clad head-to-toe. Manufacturer of these chaste outfits is the Istanbul fashion firm Hasema, whose customers include the wives of leading politicians of the governing AKP, the religious-conservative Justice and Development Party.

The Cumhuriyet newspaper, which tends to be critical of the AKP, already considers Turkey to be "besieged by Islamic dress regulations." The secular press meticulously covers all violent incidents that appear to be religiously motivated: a young, bikini-clad student attacked by cloaked religious fanatics for example; or a couple assaulted for openly drinking beer during the fasting month of Ramadan. A police officer hit a girl because she was supposedly wearing a skirt that was too short. These are shocking incidents in Turkey, where laws are supposed to protect against religious paternalism, where restaurants are open during Ramadan and where headscarves are banned at universities, schools and public offices.

The state radio-control has visited Islamist broadcasters that -- under names like "Radio Full Moon" or "Tulip Rose" in -- rail against Christians and Jews in so-called "religious talk shows," or warn women not to shake men's hands and remind them to behave modestly.

The Muslim Three Muskateer

Even political censorship, which in itself is not unheard of in Turkey, is now practiced in the name of religious modesty. Last week, for example, the ministry of education set off a storm of anger with its regulation decreeing that images of the well-known Delacroix painting "Liberty Leading the People" be removed from schoolbooks. The reason: the bare breasts of the standard-bearer in the depiction of France's 1830 July Revolution.


AFP
Islamic bathing costumes are becoming more popular in Turkey these days.
Recently, the ministry of education itself was outraged over the fact that several publishing companies had, on their own initiative, rewritten children's books that the ministry had recommended for classroom use. In the edited versions, Pinocchio, Heidi and Tom Sawyer live in an Islamic world where inhabitants wish each other a "blessed morning" or ask for food "in Allah's name." Aramis, one of the Three Musketeers, even converts to Islam.

Is Turkey really becoming more Islamic? And particularly now, after coming so far on the way towards Europe? What is undeniable is that, one year after the opening of accession talks with the EU, the atmosphere in Turkey, with its 99 percent Muslim population, is increasingly anti-European, anti-Western and more nationalistic. Only one third of Turks support membership in the European Union, according to a survey published last week in the daily Milliyet -- a dramatic change for Turks, who have been big fans of Europe for so long.

A good a week before the planned publication of the latest EU-Progress Report, the government in Ankara now fears a further worsening of the climate. If the report is, as expected, negative -- sharply critical of the judiciary and the limited freedom of opinion, as well as the Turkish relation to the status of Cyprus -- then Turkey is on the verge of a "massive shock," the nation's papers say.

"Europe only wants us to assimilate"

Many, even pro-Western Turks, feel that Europe has criticized them unfairly, or even repelled them. "The eastern European states were supported to an incredible degree, practically pushed into EU membership -- that can't be said about Turkey," protests Cem Duna, board member of the powerful industrial association Tüsiad, which continues to advocate for EU accession. Religious Turks, on the other hand, are primarily disappointed that Europe and the EU-friendly AKP have failed to bring greater religious freedoms. "Our women who wear headscarves still are not permitted to study," complains Ali Bulaç, columnist for the Islamic newspaper Zaman. The circulation of religiously oriented publications has tripled in recent years.

When the AKP first came to power four years ago, Bulaç was still enthusiastic about Turkish accession. But then the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Turkey was justified in excluding headscarf-clad women from the classroom. Bulaç recalls angrily how his own wife was barred from their daughter's graduation ceremony because of her headscarf. Now he declares: "We have to find another way, perhaps by looking towards Asia or the Middle East. Europe only wants us to assimilate."

The influential columnist represents an emerging religious sector in Turkish society. Like their secular counterparts, many religious Turks have also profited from the economic recovery of recent years. A new religious bourgeoisie has been the result, and they now want to take advantage of their newly won affluence.


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"Anyone who is rich and religious can live happily in his own world," says Islam expert Serif Mardin. "You buy Islamic designer fashion, drive an expensive car with tinted windows, get your Internet from a fellow believer, use an Islamic bank and relax at separate swimming pools." In Istanbul, where rich Turks often live in guarded luxury, there are now also separate districts for practicing Muslims. And the rise of this new, self-confident Islamic sector is tipping the hard-won balance between secular and Islam in Turkey.

Economist, kick boxer, and modern woman

Western-oriented Turks fear that their country's image is suffering. "Anyone who does not know Turkey wonders how I can live here as a modern woman -- and it's great here," says Ümit Boyner, board member of the eponymous textile firm in Istanbul. This 42-year-old economist, also a kick boxer, has headed a campaign by the trade association aimed at improving Turkey's image. "We want to show that a land with an Islamic identity is completely compatible with Europe." For Boyner, Turkey is "forever a secular state."

But that is exactly what is at risk, warn the Kemalists, who see themselves as upholders of the secular teachings of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. These profoundly worldly Turks, who used to be the nation's elite, feel threatened by the creeping Islamization of society. Specifically, they point to the fact that, under the AKP, the religious sectors of society have been reintroduced into the state bureaucracy.

Under Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, adherence to laws meant to protect secularism has been lax, complains Ural Akbulut, rector of the Technical University in Ankara. One already sees women with headscarves at some universities, he points out. "On my campus, no one is permitted to show up in a religious uniform," Akbulut emphasizes. "If we lift the ban on headscarves, then they would come tomorrow in a chador and the next day in a burka. In the end they would be beating up girls who wear modern dress. We have seen in Iran how fast it can happen."

Just recently, Akbulut discussed the dangers to the Republic with his friend Ilker Basbug, commander of the Turkish Army. Basbug, in a widely regarded appearance, publicly warned about a "fundamentalist threat" to Turkey that has reached "alarming dimensions." Erdogan, for his part, vehemently rejects the charge. "We want to bring Turkey to Europe," insists an Erdogan-insider, "and we are staying the course."


REUTERS
The founder of modern-day Turkey Kemal Atatürk is watching. But does he like what he sees?
The English-language paper, The New Anatolian, has also addressed the question on its Web site in a piece wondering whether Erdogan will turn Turkey into a second Iran. It's not yet that far. Turkey is becoming more conservative, says economic adviser Sinan Ülgen, "but we are not on the way to an Islamic state." Still, the AKP wants to give "more space to the religious agenda, and create a new balance between secularism and religion."

Watching the imams

Even the President of Religious Affairs of Turkey Ali Bardakoglu, is convinced that "secularism and modernity" are "irrevocably and deeply anchored in the Turkish identity." The Religious Affairs Directorate (RAD) under Bardakoglu is one of the key positions for state control of religion. Turkey's 70,000 imams are public servants who answer to the RAD. Friday sermons are closely watched to prevent the preaching of hate. "In Turkey, we nurture a moderate and tolerant Islam," Bardakoglu emphasizes.

He himself is a liberal who is certainly not loved by many ultra-religious Muslims. The headscarf is not at all required, says this learned theologian and lawyer. "A Muslim is not determined by what he wears, by whether he drinks alcohol or wears a beard." Anyone who defines religion that way contradicts "the essence of Islam," suggests this watcher of the faith.
 

Saifadin_Qutuz

Nemesis of Decadence
I think its forgeting its religion.
But I know that there are people who are devout muslims.
Is there any other way I can comment? heh sorry
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
No I don't think there is anything to be said. I mean I want it to go towards Islam, but the way things are looking..... I don't know...

Many of the people seem to have a messed up understanding of Islam.

May Allah guide them.
 

aliff

Junior Member
The headscarf is not at all required, says this learned theologian and lawyer. "A Muslim is not determined by what he wears, by whether he drinks alcohol or wears a beard." Anyone who defines religion that way contradicts "the essence of Islam,"

They trying to blend the laws of islam in their own way ! :astag:
Situation doesn't look good, the way i see it.

May Allah(s.w.t) guides them and us all.
 

cedric098

Junior Member
Well I think Turkish people are one of the the craziest nation indeed!! I know there are pious muslims and some turkish people are trying hard to practice all aspects of their religion although there are many obstacles, they cling to Sunnah more than even most of the arab people... On the other hand it's a secular country in which you can't even go to school with you hijab! Religion, definitaly restricts your social life so you need to choose between your deen or worldly life.. you are never let to have both!... Am I wrong Turks? Anyway it should choose to go towards Islam but only Allah knows what's best for this country! I personally consider it an important part of the Islamic world!
 

mosabaig

Junior Member
Proud Nations or Enslaved One

Assalam O alakum,

"If you press a spring it will bounce back harder"

people are looking and watching what world trying to make Muslims look like

which everyone knows is full of lies and wont last long, I think its not Turkey

or Iran but its Europe who are gonna come to Islam and then ask Turkey to

be their passage to Asia ................................. Allah is Lord of us all
 

Ayep

New Member
Human speculation always fall short

:
But that is exactly what is at risk, warn the Kemalists, who see themselves as upholders of the secular teachings of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. These profoundly worldly Turks, who used to be the nation's elite, feel threatened by the creeping Islamization of society. Specifically, they point to the fact that, under the AKP, the religious sectors of society have been reintroduced into the state bureaucracy.

Eventually the Kemalist will collapse because people tend to wake to reality when their fantasy had failed them once again.

It about time Turkey regains back its true identity than trying to become a Western state that it is not. When 'human speculation' fails its back to 'divine revealation' eventually. Allah will replace people with error with the righteous ones.
:wasalam:
 

khan_saddozai

New Member
salam
i think turkey cares more about europe then islam...its sad coz non-muslim countries respect islam more than turkey..
but thats no 2 say every turk is not islamic..
salam
 

Paki Idol

Defender of Islam
Turkish ppl for Islam!

Turkey?
I think Turkish ppl are coming back to Islam.The Government has also realised that Europeans, more likely the christians won't allow a Muslim country into EU!!Even if they would allow Turkey, then Turkey would get into more trouble as the West will play it's cards to get Turkey unIslamic and ruin Turkey's image.
 

OmarTheFrench

Junior Member
In their practice the Turkish are less hypocrites than others.In their society there isn't social pression for wear the headscarf or do the Ramadan so its more authentic when someone than others countries.
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
oh my. i feel so sad for the leader of Turkey.

As one friend of my father said, "Leading is NOT an HONOR.
It's a RESPONSIBILITY."


I don't see why people who know Islam (or claim they do) try so hard to be a leader. A leader is accountable for all the people under him. The people of the past would cry when they became leader, because they feared Allah's punishment if they didn't lead their people in the right path.

Subhanallah.
 

seeking_peace1

Your Sister in Islam
where Turkey is heading to or...?

Assalam-o-Alaikum.

well honestly speaking i think more or less its the same with almost whole ummah.most muslim countries are trying to adopt what simply doesn't belong to them.but as someone said before at the end of the day every individual comes back to its origin.slowly and gradually people in general are coming back to the peace of Islam.

i've always been thinking about western socities and muslim socities trying to adopt their lifestyle.western socities even after attaing "freedom",infact crossing every limit of freedom,still they are not happy,that satisfaction and happiness every human strives for still remanis a dream to be achieved for them.then what the muslim socities find that attractive in them,the result of that so called freedom is right infront of the whole world.

may Allah swt guide us to the truth.

W'Salam.
 

habib786

Junior Member
salaam to all..

what i see is .. first and the foremost .. being an islamic country the people should hold tight to the rope of Quran and its sunnah ... if we hold fast there is solution to the problem but for the heck of becoming part of Eu sacrificing ur islamic roots seems crazy to me ...the west is fast coming to islam so will the EU's too .. inshallah ...rest Allah knows best what is good for the people .. May Allah Guide Us All...
 

IslamIsLight

Islam is my life
Staff member
salam aleikum
I know many turkish sisters here and I dont see anything wrong with them ..They gather all the time and discuss religion and trying to learn .I find them very educated and intelegent......
waaleikum salam
 

hussain.mahammed

a lonely traveller
Everything will go back to Allah Subhanahu wa Taala. Even if Turkey or any other country tries to be with the West, everything will come into the fold of Islam sooner or later.
I voted for ISLAM.
wa/salam
 
Salam.

I do come from Istanbul / Turkey. But i am away from my country since 2004 for my educational purposes. Anyway after Ottoman Empire is clashed or ended and Ataturk established a new kind of ruling system and borrowed from west (Greece and modern Europe ruling system) Republic and called it Repuplic Of Turkey. But just it, no title of Islam or anything. For example i do live right now in Islamabad (Pakistan) and its called Islamic Repuplic of Pakistan. Its diffrent. But if you examine this two coutry, both of them perplexed and chaotic. Mostly its about governing them.

Turkey after living His Ottoman history from his vains and blood, they stuck on secularizm which came from France. Actually i like French secularism and its more diffrent then Turkish secularism because there is no secularism in Turkey. Its just a word. Secularism means simply goverment don't interacts with Religion and religion with goverment. But we have Minister of Religion. Now where is secularizm and how it can be done? This is an illusion. The books of religion who are teached in schools chosen by goverment, and children only can go in summers to Kor'an courses for study how to read Kor'an and some other basics.

I myself studied almost 5-6 years in Islamic Schools (madrasah) and my last and best teacher which who was leading figure in my country about Sufizm thought and entellectual information about Islam, he killed last Ramazan and according to my sources He killed by Greece side. My schools are forbidden in Turkey. But there madrasas in Turkey. They simply teaches How to understand Kor'an, (Taafser, Fikh, Hadeeth, Usul-u Hadeeth and Tafseer (method), Logic and Kelam (kind of Islamic Belief system and philosophy) etc.

But these important subjects are not included in summer courses which helded mostly in mosques and teenagers went there.

So there is no secularism in Turkey, there are misunderstanding and Kemalism. Actually Kemalism is a philisophic thought which Ataturk himself did not found it. After his death one Ottomon Jew changed his jewish name to Turkish islamic name and wrote his book `Kemalism`

Obviously Turkey after many wars include First and second World Wars, changed his face from east to west. Many entellectuals believed knowledge and light is in West. They stuck with west.
 
Still this phenomena going on. After founding of Turkey two major power divided,
rightist and leftist. Leftist mostly become komunist of repuplican kemalist. Most of them can not bear the idea of Religion they poisoned by the western thought like age of reason, materialism, pragmatism and positivism . etc. Most of them tried to erase signs of religion like Ismet Inenu who tried to break down Saint Sophia (Aya Sophia) minarets. But could not be succcesful cause Mimar Sinan (famous ottoman architect) build the minarets which tied up with roof of mosque (ancient church of byzantium) and if any one of minaret will be break whole mosque was going to be demolished. Soc he was genius. And power of darkness could not be succesful. But they went their kufr (aim) and still going.

Other power was rightist. Most of them was conservative muslims, who believe Allah and with this believe they served to humanity. And some of them became only conservatives not related with religion only by tradition.

And from that time on struggle goes on in Turkey. And I know all east watch Turkey for re-birth and re-collect them again. And this is the fear of west. They know this is end of west. It's meant to be like this.

Now I should go to pray and eat my iftari. I will narrate short stories about turkey soon in future.

maas salamah
 
back to the track

salam

now ı can say turkey lives islam fifty persent and other fourty persent is literally muslims on paper as christians right now in europe or u.s. And who lives islam practically most of them learns islam in traditional way after establishment of turkish repuplic. Because government does not provide enough sources and teachers and schools to teach injuctions and basics of islam. What is thought in primary and secondary school is easy-busy things for children and if ı say that ı say they teach nonsense.

Before the elemination in turkey, one kemalist-repuplican prof. (woman) who is rector of a one university and president of kemalist civil organization (which is semi-govermental org.) said, after a teenager girl prayed a salat on the desk in the class of religion, culture and ethics, that prof said, "we should teach our children how to dance on the desk not how to pray. we are living in 21. century. you can picture the scene in your mind how kemalist-repuplicans, or so-called staters thinks in turkey. actually such kind of people hold power by coming certain places is goverments and burocracy in the states in 1970s. Obviously they protected themselves and gave their places to their next generations. Because of this this presentidal elemination was very important for consevatives and kemalist repplicans. because presendital place was the last castle.

Now powers are exchanged. I called this movement in turkey and revolution.

Europe fears turkey because if they accept him, turkish muslims can impress and effect western people's mind and call them to islam. turkey has biggest youngest population in turkey. and young generation is always changable in turkey. if turkey joins to europe, constitution must be changed, and it must be most democrotic in law and social life and people will have more freedom in thinking. we have great power in scholars about islam but they are muted. only we need freedom to speak about facts freely. turkey's young generation can be lead to the right path and then they can lead europian genarations. ı think so and i think this is one of the europe's fear.

The answer is turkey go to Europe and İslam together, at the same time.
 
Everything will go back to Allah Subhanahu wa Taala. Even if Turkey or any other country tries to be with the West, everything will come into the fold of Islam sooner or later.
I voted for ISLAM.
wa/salam

:salam2:

I think ur naiv brother. So are those who voted for Islam. I cant even imagine Turkey becoming more islamic. The only islamic thing they have over there is that they´re not selling pork. There are also alot of those "Kemalists" who (even though they have no knowledge about Islam) look down on Islam.
 
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