Bible proofs of Jesus?

[palestine]

:salam2: Dear brothers and sisters there was a thread here of "proofs that jesus is not God". so could u give me the thread please? thank you.

 

[BintMuhammad]

Assalamu alaikum,

10 Reasons Why Jesus alayhissalaam is NOT God

Christ in Islam

 

[Fahad_Agus]

thanx a lot i needed that too ^_^

 

[abdul ghaleeb]

very nice....mash'allaahswt)
listening to those christian evangelicals knocking on your door preaching their concepts of the trinity and as human as a God(a-oodu billaah) is very confusing and very painful to the brain. i'd rather stick knives in my head...

 

[meer suhail]

booklets by Ahmad deedat

:salam2:


worried about missionaries knocking at ur doors ,,,,,,,try this link ,read the booklets by ahmed deedat ( i claim to be his student hehe ) May Allah (swt) bless him , and then u dont have to worry about missionaries at ur door

http://jamaat.net/deedat.htm

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/

 

[BGfromGB]

Proving Jesus.

:salam2: Dear brothers and sisters there was a thread here of "proofs that jesus is not God". so could u give me the thread please? thank you.

I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.

Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.

Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.

 

[Bawar]

Dear BGfromGB, I have seen you around for quiet a while and you have seen enough convincing and logical reasons to find the truth.

The only thing that may be missing is the grace of Allah, for you to allow the truth to enter your heart and bow to the ONE who deserves your worship.

Peace

 

[BrotherZak]

I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.

Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.

Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.

As ahmed deedat brilliantly put it that Muslims believe the gospel of Jesus and not the Gospel about Jesus. We believe in what Jesus taught buts its fairly obvious that Jesus did not go around with a bible under his arm spreading his message to the lost tribes. Looking for proof of Jesus not being in God in the bible can be used only to illustrate to a Christian the evident evolution of the person of jesus; from a man to a God...

As for the quran not telling you something i can't speculate on that. But the quranic and islamic account is objectively speaking is the most consistent in terms of what really happened to jesus and last days. Just look at the biblical accounts and the number of variations including the lost books:

gospels of according to mary magdene
gospels of thomas
gospel of barnabas
gospel of nazerene
the secret gospel of mark
gospel of judas
gospel of Q

I can name more but this is enough to show the fact each had their own version of what happened to jesus and whether the resurrection happened. In fact some early communities believed that Jesus never died on the cross and a man who likened his appearance died instead on the cross..some believe jesus was a man---are we as muslims willing to trust these contradicitng and conflicting accounts written by men and unknown authors who have never met jesus or lived in his lifetime?

They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .

 

[abdul ghaleeb]

I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.

Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.

Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.

83. So leave them to babble and play (with vanities) until they meet that Day of theirs, which they have been promised.
qur'an chapter 83(ornaments of gold, luxury)
let the christians babble with their nonsense. In the end they shall see plain and clear.
Mr. BGfromGB Allaah(swt) does not haVE Children.!!!. Far exalted is he above what you have fabricated to His glory. If you say Jesus(pbuh) is god then you are crazy. Abraham, moses(pbut) did not believe in such nonsense. If jesus(pbuh) was God(swt) how did jesus a human create the giant universe? the human race only appeared recently in the ancient and ageless age of this universe? Jesus had a birth. God(swt) does not have a birth.

plain and simple

 

[Bawar]

Jesus PBUH was born in a certain age. Many people and nations had lived before his birth.

The question is, if Jesus pbuh was the only way to salvation (by believing that he was God/son of God), then how were the nations before Jesus supposed to get salvation?

The answer is simple, Jesus was not a God/son of God, but a messenger of God, just like prophets before him.

Wassalam

 

[abdul ghaleeb]

As
Just look at the biblical accounts and the number of variations including the lost books:

gospels of according to mary magdene
gospels of thomas
gospel of barnabas
gospel of nazerene
the secret gospel of mark
gospel of judas
gospel of Q
.

What about those lost books? These are the books that didnt go against the trinitarian doctrine of the church. have any of you guys ever wondered about them. Iwonder whats in them that they did not like? I myself would love to read them.

i wonder if their hidden or stored up somewhere? I wish Allaah(swt) would allow them to be revealed for the world to see and then everyone can judge for themselves.
amin

 

[Fahad_Agus]

I'm afraid my dear friend, that you will not find proof that Jesus is not God other than what the Qur'an teaches. The Bible which, according to Islamic doctrine, is a book full of lies, deceit, additions and subtractions. So the proof cannot be there. There are no other books that relate to the life and times of Yeshua(Jesus). The threads provided on this forum are not proofs as they as they quote the false and deceitful verses from the scriptures to try and prove Yeshua is not God.

Those same verses that convince "christians" otherwise. I guess the reason for that is the fact that they have taken the arduous task and spend many, many hours in studying the scriptures.

Why do you not accept what the Qur'an teaches, or is there something about the Qur'an that is not telling you something but can't quite pinpoint it? That is certainly the case with me.

its just that we cant argue or start a conversation with a christian about the divinity of Jesus (pbuh) by using the Holy Quran because the person doesnt believe in it in the 1st place so thats why sheikh Ahmed Deedat never used the Quran as his tool to talk to christians about this matter.

 

[BGfromGB]

Let the truth speak

Dear BGfromGB

,Hi Bawar. Thanks for your input.

I have seen you around for quiet a while and you have seen enough convincing and logical reasons to find the truth.

Yes you are quite right. I have seen a lot, but not enough convincing, logical reasons to find the truth. The problem is that when I pose what I consider a convincing and logical reason in finding the truth, the topic in question is either prematurely terminated, or I am chastised by the moderator because I am accused of bringing the forum into disrepute by introducing a debate when this site is not about debate but rather rather a platform to gain more knowledge about Islam. Well sir, and with the greatest respect to the moderators, it is people like you who do provide non muslims such as myself the knowledge and indeed the truth about Islam. Just the other day some muslim scholars opened up to the Pope in an effort to muster better understanding of different religions. With the blessing from the almighty, this forum can do just that. What a great opportunity it would be for you to understand where christians are coming from. I'm no longer a christian but it is better to "evangelise" to them, from an Islamic perspective.

rather than tell them thing that may be missing is the grace of Allah, for you to allow the truth to enter your heart and bow to the ONE who deserves your worship.

I am studying both books. With time, patience and fortitude, the truth wiil be revealed. Is it Yeshua or is it Mohammed? That is the question muslims and christians must ask. But for me, as things presently stand, it is God/YHWH/Allah. He is not a religion. he is MY creator, my supreme being, my heavenly father.

Peace

And peace to you and your family and your brothers in Islam.

I'm not here to preach the truth about Islam or christianity. I'm here to search the truth. Thank you.

 

[justoneofmillion]

Assalam,brothers ,mistake is human...but please do not forget to say Alaeihi assalat wassalam!this is not any jesus(pbuh)!it is the prophet of Allah swt ,let us not imitate the kuffar in their arrogant informality,jazakumu llahu khair.

Wassalam

Jameel

 

[BGfromGB]

The Gospel of Jesus?

As ahmed deedat brilliantly put it that Muslims believe the gospel of Jesus and not the Gospel about Jesus.

Hi Brotherzak. A good point you have there. Problem is the "gospel of Jesus" got lost. No one knows how, when or where. We do not know if this "Gospel" was preached. So how is it possible to believe in a gospel which no one knows anything about. As for the "Gospel about Jesus". If we did not have the Gospel about Jesus, then how would anyone, muslims included, know anything about "Jesus"

We believe in what Jesus taught

Then what did "Jesus" teach? His gospel got lost.

buts its fairly obvious that Jesus did not go around with a bible under his arm spreading his message to the lost tribes

. How could he? His "Bible" got lost. But youre right there, its fairly obvious.

Looking for proof of Jesus not being in God in the bible can be used only to illustrate to a Christian the evident evolution of the person of jesus; from a man to a God...

That's debateable. If you believe in evolution then that's no problem. But I don't .I beleive God in God's creation that was manisested with in 6 days. I do not believe in the "Gap" theory. (one day is like a thousand years and all that prehistoric nonsense)

As for the quran not telling you something i can't speculate on that. But the quranic and islamic account is objectively speaking is the most consistent in terms of what really happened to jesus and last days.

Just look at the biblical accounts and the number of variations including the lost books:

gospels of according to mary magdene
gospels of thomas
gospel of barnabas
gospel of nazerene
the secret gospel of mark
gospel of judas
gospel of Q

Only you know the answer to these books as you have no doubt read and studied these books. I haven't. So I can't pass judgement or even speculate. Right now I am trying to see how and which parts of the present day scriptures have been corrupted. That's enough to keep me occupied for quite some time.

I can name more but this is enough to show the fact each had their own version of what happened to jesus and whether the resurrection happened. In fact some early communities believed that Jesus never died on the cross

That is what the scriptures teach. I accept what the scriptures teach, not what some communities believe.

They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .

They (meaning the Jews) did not kill him. That is quite correct. The scriptures tell us that it was the Romans who crucified Yeshua. If you read the preceeding 4 verses and the following 3 verses of sura 4:157 and the context it was written in reference to the Jews, then it suggests that the sura neither confirms nor denies the death of Yeshua.

I may be wrong on this issue, but reading the sura is how I interpret it to be.

 

[BGfromGB]

God and children

Mr. BGfromGB Allaah(swt) does not haVE Children.!!!.

Correct. The scriptures do not say Allah has children. But it does does say that Jesus is the son of God. God is my creator and I regard myself as a chi9ld of God. Is that blasphemy?

Far exalted is he above what you have fabricated to His glory. If you say Jesus(pbuh) is god then you are crazy.

John 1:1 suggests he is. But then according Islam that verse is considered a lie. I cannot prove is is NOT a lie. But then can you prove it IS a lie.

Abraham, moses(pbut) did not believe in such nonsense.

That's your assessment I'm not qualified to argue with you on that point.

If jesus(pbuh) was God(swt) how did jesus a human create the giant universe?

Speak to God on that one. Not me.

the human race only appeared recently in the ancient and ageless age of this universe? Jesus had a birth. God(swt) does not have a birth.

The scriptures and the Quran say that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. I do not believe in the "gap" theory. I believe what God says.

 

[Aminah 4 Allah]

Assalamu Alaikum Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

Those of you who state that the Bible is not accurate are right. The only real evidence we do have of what happened to Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) and that He (peace and blessings be upon him) is not God is from the Quran. Alhumdulilah!!!

However, I do feel that this thred is useful as it is good for us Muslims to discuss proofs of Islam in the Bible for dawah purposes. I know that the Bible is not accurate but all around me live people who live their life according to this book that is far from it's original form. Inshallah if there are things in this book that provide evidence for Islam we can use these to our advantage in making dawah to our Christian neighbours. I know that I have used evidence from the Bible to point my Christian friends to study Islam and question what they believe in. Inshallah they will see the light of Allah swt and the Quran that he sent to us through His Messenger Muhammad (peacce and blessings be upon him) once they realize all the gaps and changes that have occured to their holy book.

Allah swt knows best.

Wasslaam,
Aminah

 

[BrotherZak]

Hi Brotherzak. A good point you have there. Problem is the "gospel of Jesus" got lost. No one knows how, when or where. We do not know if this "Gospel" was preached. So how is it possible to believe in a gospel which no one knows anything about. As for the "Gospel about Jesus". If we did not have the Gospel about Jesus, then how would anyone, muslims included, know anything about "Jesus"

Then what did "Jesus" teach? His gospel got lost.

. How could he? His "Bible" got lost. But youre right there, its fairly obvious. That's debateable. If you believe in evolution then that's no problem. But I don't .I beleive God in God's creation that was manisested with in 6 days. I do not believe in the "Gap" theory. (one day is like a thousand years and all that prehistoric nonsense)

I may be wrong on this issue, but reading the sura is how I interpret it to be.

First of all you mentioned before in regards to another poster about evidence and when you will be convinced but i suggest you to avoid the philosophical stance of avoiding the fundamental standard of proof . Often what happens is that once a proof(quran) is established with clear reasoning and logic people will than ask for the proof of the proof of the proof leading to an infinite regression.

Now lets establish a fundamental standard of proof regarding the Gospel and its account of Jesus's life.

Anytime you have myriad of conflicting reports about a man's life(jesus) written by numerous authors known and unknown such as the mysterious q,it is bound to be unclear,ambiguous, and definitely inaccurate. How can you take your salvation on the whims of authors who wrote about a Jesus's life some 2 or 3 hundred years after his life based on an overaggerated oral history?

Why do i say evolution? I don't but many scholars hold such opinions. Just look at the early communities such as the unitarian who believed in the non-divinity of Jesus or the gnostics or the Nazere
nes.. after the council of nicea and the dominating church silencing dissenting gospels and literary burning some, it was inevitable that the pauline form of chirstianity won out simply because the church decided to advertise it...will you rest your entire salvation on the decision of the church which were essentially a group of men?. Essentially its risky buisness. Here if you want to be honest with yourself watch th
is scholary documentary on how the bible was assembled. Note the host is a christian who at the end of documentary is totally shocked on how offbase the traditional position of bible authenticity is.

A simple comparison between the Gospels and its depiction of Jesus with the "Song of Roland " a famous medieval poem written around 13 century."hich relates a real event in a fictitious light. It will be remembered that it describes an actual episode: Roland was leading Charlemagne's rear-guard when it was ambushed on the pass at Roncevaux. The episode which was of minor importance, is said to have taken place on the 15th August, 778 according to historical records (Eginhard). It was raised to the stature of a great feat of arms, a battle in a war of religion."---this is the nature of oral tradition and i fear this is what happened to the life of Jesus. A simple prophet commanding the people of the lost tribes to worship the god of Elah or Eloh Or allah(all the same derivates) and follow the commandements. Even a cursory study of the bible reveals no divinity, no trinity...and so on.


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=who+wrote+the+bible&search=Search

also i suggest you read this online book about the quran and the bible in the light of science and authenticity..written by a non-muslim

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm



Now the quran is a different case all together and i want you to remember what i said earlier about standard of proof. Its a consistent messsage about jesus life which is in line with what the earlier communities belived about Jesus(pbuh). Its miracously in the highest stature of arabic by an unlettered prophet. Its description is clear and concise without any confliction. Its a miracle how he could even relate such events in my opinion. From a logical perspective its clear the quran is the safer side.

 

[gazkour]

assalamo alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato

We cannot say the Bible is a book full of lies. I don't believe that's right. Unfortunately it has been corrupted in many ways so we can't take it as a word of God, but it doesn't mean everything is wrong. It contains most of the stories of the prophets (pbut) which coincide with what the Cora'n says. I used to be a practicing christian and my only reference was the Bible at the time, so when I discovered the idea of Islam, I continued reading the Bible but within and islamic propective, if you know what I mean. And beleive me, I always say that I reverted to Islam reading the Bible, when I realised that Jesus never claimed to be God. My heart also found bigger peace when I realised the Holy Coran is basically a confirmation of all the teachings of the Prophets mentioned in the Bible.
Also when confronting a christian I personally think we should not use the Coran since they don't believe in it at all (at least that's what they think!!). All my family is new born christian and I always tell them(since they hate me mentioning the Coran!!) : if you are a christian and don't want to do anything with Islam, then at least practice what that Bible says about Jesus"your god" : he(pbuh) used to wash his feet before entering the temple, he(pbuh) used to pray by postrating, he(pbuh) never ate pork, he always said it was not up to him but up to God, he(pbuh) used to have beard, used to dress modestly, etc,etc,etc.
Allah knows best. this is just my opinion.

[EID MUBARAK FOR EVERYONE!!

Assalamo alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato
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