Saudi gang-rape victim is jailed

[Muslimah99]

Saudi gang-rape victim is jailed
By Frances Harrison
BBC News



Saudi women are subject to strict sex segregation laws
An appeal court in Saudi Arabia has doubled the number of lashes and added a jail sentence as punishment for a woman who was gang-raped.

The victim was initially punished for violating laws on segregation of the sexes - she was in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack.

When she appealed, the judges said she had been attempting to use the media to influence them.

The attackers' sentences - originally of up to five years - were doubled.

Extra penalties

According to the Arab News newspaper, the 19-year-old woman was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.

The victim and attackers are from Saudi Arabia's Shia minority.

Seven men from the majority Sunni community were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years.

But the victim was also punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car of a strange man.

On appeal, the Arab News reported that the punishment was not reduced but increased to 200 lashes and a six-month prison sentence.

The rapists also had their prison terms doubled. But the sentences are still low considering they could have faced the death penalty.

The Arab News quoted an official as saying the judges had decided to punish the girl for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.

The victim's lawyer was suspended from the case, has had his licence to work confiscated, and faces a disciplinary session.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7096814.stm
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/16/saudi-lashing.html

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/17/saudi.rape.victim/index.html

what do you think about this and what does it say about how islamic laws are implemented the right or wrong way?

 

[dna1987]

Even the lawyer was suspended from duty? That's pretty crazy.

Also, the story is a bit confusing; it says in one line that the attackers and victim are from the Shia minority, and then in the next it says 7 of them were Sunni attackers.

My real question is: if they are known to be guilty of the rape, why have they not been sentenced with the death penalty when countless others in the same situation have been sentenced with it? Or can the punishment be selective if a Sunni male rapes a Shia female?

 

[Muslimah99]

selamun aleykum dna1987, yes it is confusing, that is why I put up several articles.

I don't think the punishment can be selective whether the female is a sunni or shia, why would it be that way?

 

[Optimist]

I just dont think we have enough info to judge the case ... how do you know that this girl was not "daisy chaining" ???? ... just because she said so while weeping in court ?

and there are apparent discrepancies in the story too ... and it is all "according to Arab News agency" ??? If this is the same one I can think of then it should be named the "lying Arab News agency" ... search Arab News on the internet and see what you think. They used to send me loads of emails about the sex life of the gulf rulers. you dont need to be a genius to know that those guys are not interested in correct and balanced reporting at all. Absolutely rubbish.

Rape is difficult to prove. Even in the UK, a coutry that prides itself on "women's freedom" .. the conviction rate is about 5% ... so there.

 

[dna1987]

Salam alaikum. I don't think the punishment can be selective whether the female is a sunni or shia, why would it be that way?

That was meant to be a rhetorical question. Obviously the punishment should be the same - but perhaps that's one reason why there were only sentenced to 5 years or less! Which is a shame really, because I'm sure even in the States, rapists are put away for at least 10 years.

I just dont think we have enough info to judge the case ... how do you know that this girl was not "daisy chaining" ???? ... just because she said so while weeping in court ?

and there are apparent discrepancies in the story too ... and it is all "according to Arab News agency" ??? If this is the same one I can think of then it should be named the "lying Arab News agency" ... search Arab News on the internet and see what you think. They used to send me loads of emails about the sex life of the gulf rulers. you dont need to be a genius to know that those guys are not interested in correct and balanced reporting at all. Absolutely rubbish.

Rape is difficult to prove. Even in the UK, a coutry that prides itself on "women's freedom" .. the conviction rate is about 5% ... so there.

To brother mbaath, from all the sources it seems pretty clear that the judges have accepted the situation to be rape. That means they have done the research and the judges have understood that she was in fact raped - so that's not the issue here.
My concern is the punishment of the rapists whom I think should be sentenced properly with a stronger sentence. I have a very strong distaste for rapists; they make me sick and upset. Also, the actual girl getting 90 lashes originally - if there is a law that states one will get 90 lashes for breaking the gender segregation rules then that's ok.

Just hope these judges are consistent with their sentencing - I have this annoying feeling that if the blame was fully on the girl, she would have been stoned.

 

[Muslimah99]

These are just some reminders about what islam says...as I said I don't know much about that case (I posted several links) but for what I know rape is a huge sin!


And do not go near fornication [zina] as it is immoral and an evil way (Qur’an 17:32).11

The adulteress and adulterer should be flogged a hundred lashes each, and no pity for them should deter you from the law of God, if you believe in God and the last day; and the punishment should be witnessed by a body of believers (Qur’an 24:2).

Those who defame chaste women and do not bring four witnesses should be punished with eighty lashes, and their testimony should not be accepted afterwards, for they are profligates (Qur’an at 24:4).12

God counsels you not to do a thing like this, if you are believers (Qur’an 24:11-17).

Placing these Qur’anic verses into context will further emphasize the importance of this concept in Islamic law, and in particular, its close connection to the dignity of women. The verses setting forth the crime of zina and the accompanying verses denouncing public discussion of the matter were revealed just after the famous "Affair of the Necklace," in which Muhammad’s wife, Aisha, was mistakenly left behind by a caravan in the desert when she went looking for a lost necklace (al-Tabari 1910, 18:86-101; al-‘Umari 1991, 2:82-84).25 She returned home with a young single man who had happened upon her and given her a ride home. Rumors of Aisha’s time alone with this man spread quickly throughout the small town of Medina, until the above verses finally ended the gossip. Thus, the very revelation of these verses was prompted by an incident involving attacks on a woman’s dignity – Aisha’s honor. Indeed, the verse setting forth severe punishment for slander is directed specifically against charges impugning a woman’s chastity: "Those who defame chaste women, and do not bring four witnesses, should be punished with eighty lashes, and their testimony should not be accepted afterwards . . . ." (Qur’an 24:4; emphasis added). Men do not seem to be of particular concern here.


Why the focus on women? Looking at the issue from a cultural perspective, this focus is not surprising. In nearly every culture of the world, women’s sexual morality appears to be a particularly favorite subject for slander, gossip, and insult.26 The tendency of patriarchal societies, in fact, is to view a woman’s chastity as central to the honor of her family, especially of the men in her family. For example, under the British common law (the law in Pakistan before the Hudood Ordinance), rape was a crime punishable against men, to be lodged by the husband of the woman raped against the man who violated her (Hale 1778, 637-39).27 The woman’s place was apparently on the sidelines of a prosecution by her husband against her rapist.

This cultural phenomenon – that a family’s honor lies in the virtue of its women–exists in many countries today; Pakistan is one of them. Studies indicate that in Pakistan, when women are jailed for long periods of time on charges of zina, their families and friends are reluctant to help or even visit them, "as accusation of zina is a serious dishonor" (Patel 1991, 27). Even more disturbing, suicide is perceived as the honorable solution to the humiliation, especially sexual violation is involved. For example, when Khursheed Begum was raped in 1992,28 her husband and son "wish[ed] she had committed suicide," even after human rights activists explained to them that the rape was not her fault (Scroggins 1992, A10). This attitude lends itself easily to manipulation and the development of a tribal attitude where women’s bodies become tools for revenge by men against men. Indeed, increasingly in Pakistan, "n cases of revenge against the male members of [a] family, instances have come to light where their women are violated" (Patel 1991, 36).29 Even within a family, physically harming (even killing) women for alleged infidelity or some other embarrassment to the family—-often by some sort of burning–is an unfortunate tradition in the Indo-Pakistani subcontinent.30 And, as world human rights organizations have documented, "honor killings" of women suspected of sexual indiscretion, carried out by a male family member, are unfortunately not limited to this part of the world.31


The Qur’an, however, has harsh words for the exploitation of women’s dignity in this way. As if anticipating the misogynistic tendency of society, the Qur’an first establishes that there is to be no speculation about a woman’s sexual conduct. No one may cast any doubt upon the character of a woman except by formal charges, with very specific, secure evidence (i.e. four eyewitnesses to actual intercourse) that the woman is disrupting public decency with her behavior.33 If such direct proof does not materialize, then anyone engaging in such a charge is subject to physical punishment for slander. (For even if the information is true, any witness who is not accompanied by another three will be punished for slander (Qur’an 24:11-17). As for the public at large, they must leave her alone, regardless of the outcome. Where the public refuses to perpetuate rumors, responding instead that: "it is not for us to speak of" (Qur’an 24: 16-17) the patriarchal tendency to invest the honor of society in women’s sexuality loses force. In the face of any hint of a woman’s sexual impropriety, the Qur’anic response is: walk away. Leave her alone. Leave her dignity intact. The honor of a woman is not a tool, it is her fundamental right.

http://www.crescentlife.com/articles/social issues/rape_laws.htm

 

[user expired!]

asalamualaykum,

Bro that is exactly what they want you to believe!

I am no Fan of Sauid Arabia but what happened with this so called 'Rape' was a huge lie!

the 'Rape' victim was the criminal because she was having an Affair with another guy (which she admitted in court even though she was married) on two occasions, she was about to meet him again but then the men followed her and saw her going into a car or a corner, now this is where the story changes!

She says she was raped, the other men say they were following her and she told them what exactly happened...

now the story didint even go out until her husband got an email or phone call and confronted her, and then she told him what happened.



the lawyer was suspended cos he tried to use the media to change the verdict of the case! this is huge fitnah!!!

 

[Muslimah99]

asalamualaykum,

Bro that is exactly what they want you to believe!

I am no Fan of Sauid Arabia but what happened with this so called 'Rape' was a huge lie!

the 'Rape' victim was the criminal because she was having an Affair with another guy (which she admitted in court even though she was married) on two occasions, she was about to meet him again but then the men followed her and saw her going into a car or a corner, now this is where the story changes!

She says she was raped, the other men say they were following her and she told them what exactly happened...

now the story didint even go out until her husband got an email or phone call and confronted her, and then she told him what happened.



the lawyer was suspended cos he tried to use the media to change the verdict of the case! this is huge fitnah!!!

interesting, but why is her sentence that low then? if it is true and proven that she has commited adutlery? Can you give me the links to your sources, because the media here where i live is full with it!

 

[dianek]

I am sorry, but RAPE IS RAPE....rather she was having an affair with one man is irrelevant to the case against the others. They forced themselves on her in the most traumatic way a woman can be assaulted. and this government is punishing HER? That is just wrong. Those men who raped her should serve a long sentence and she needs counseling both emotional and religious, not PRISON! This makes me sick...........What kind of judicial system finds justice in punishing a victim. If you wanted to punish her for adultery, does it not take 4 witnesses or there is no proof? And if she admits it and begs for God's forgiveness and guidance, does he not say leave her alone? Remind me not to visit SA.....this is where the world sees grave injustices against women in Islam. We are spreading our own negative propaganda when we behave as this judge did.

 

[a_muslimah86]

:salam2:

you know..i have saudi friends

and many of the stories they tell me about the things that happen there...are absolutely shocking and unbelievable

many injustices..and many un-Islamic things happen in the kingdom

but of course..you all have to realize something..

it's not heaven over there...and the people don't have stamps of perfection stamped on their foreheads!..nor do they walk around with halos and a set of wings..

if you come to the bottom of it...this woman...brought it upon herself!

in a society where segregation is a law..and many everyday people themselves have no problem helping in implementing it...you would think...she would make better judgement

i mean i'm pretty sure...people around her..were watching her do things like that..and if she wasn't going to get raped...eventually she might've been involved in a scandal that would haunt her for the rest of her life (not that what she is involved in now..isn't going to!)

i was disturbed and upset when i found out about the story..when i first found out about it

but once i found out that she was with this guy committing adultery..

i just thought...God works in mysterious ways!

she brought it upon herself (like i said)..and she is a lesson to all those MEN *AND* WOMEN who dare to commit adultery

and i feel no sympathy towards *her* or *the guys*..they are both equally guilty..the woman is guilty in disrespecting her bond of marriage..and breaking the commands of Allah (swt)..and the guys for being so low and perverted..when they were supposed to follow her and the guy and stop them from committing sin...they go ahead and do something disgusting like that

worst things have happened to women through men...subhanallah!

and injustices...are being committed in huge scales everyday in other muslim nations..

how about the iraqi government's plan to kill every person named *omar* and *aisha in iraq?

and how about all the palestinean boys at ages as young as 13 being thrown into jails without sentences?

how about those?

we need to cleanse the ummah of murder and hatred...before we worry about the punishment of a self-professed adulterer and her perverted rapists

p.s. it doesn't matter what sect you come from..crimes are what they are..CRIMES!

 

[apocalypse77]

:salam2:


i mean i'm pretty sure...people around her..were watching her do things like that..and if she wasn't going to get raped...eventually she might've been involved in a scandal that would haunt her for the rest of her life (not that what she is involved in now..isn't going to!)

i was disturbed and upset when i found out about the story..when i first found out about it

but once i found out that she was with this guy committing adultery..

i just thought...God works in mysterious ways!

she brought it upon herself (like i said)..and she is a lesson to all those MEN *AND* WOMEN who dare to commit adultery

and i feel no sympathy towards *her* or *the guys*..they are both equally guilty..the woman is guilty in disrespecting her bond of marriage..and breaking the commands of Allah (swt)..and the guys for being so low and perverted..when they were supposed to follow her and the guy and stop them from committing sin...they go ahead and do something disgusting like that

This is the problem. Who are you to judge the victim, whatever she may have done? The fact remains that she was raped. Even if she were naked in front of those men, it does not excuse rape.
some pple are using male dominance over women inthe pretect of religion. if this is the way things work, how are ever gonna make pple see the true light of islam?

we'd end up with non-muslims saying "the Islamic rules are very biased against the female gender. Ask yourself this qn. Who wrote the Qu'ran? Who set the Islamic rules? of course is Men?

 

[a_muslimah86]

This is the problem. Who are you to judge the victim, whatever she may have done? The fact remains that she was raped. Even if she were naked in front of those men, it does not excuse rape.
some pple are using male dominance over women inthe pretect of religion. if this is the way things work, how are ever gonna make pple see the true light of islam?

we'd end up with non-muslims saying "the Islamic rules are very biased against the female gender. Ask yourself this qn. Who wrote the Qu'ran? Who set the Islamic rules? of course is Men?

did you even read my entire post?

how was i excusing the rape?...i said.....THEY ARE BOTH *EQUALLY* GUILTY..

and if the light of Islam was and still is seen after the hijacking of planes..and the kidnapping of people..

saying an honest opinion about an ADULTERER and her RAPISTS..isn't going to end that light or blind others from seeing it

THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS SHINE..AND ISLAM IS THAT LIGHT AND IS THAT TRUTH..BROTHER!!!..

*opinions* won't affect it!!!..if it was getting affected by opinions..then perhaps we wont' have 1.5 billion muslims or people on this very forum REVERTING JUST DAYS AGO!!!!........if you realize that..you wouldn't have said what you said!

and about non-muslims and what they say..

THEY will ALWAYS have stuff against us..with all the truth within Islam..they still have propaganda against it..and try their best to bring muslims down
don't try to talk to me...like i'm the one who is going to turn all non-muslims against us..ruin the reputation of islam..and make all the non-muslims question our deen..and so on..and so forth

by the way...in case you DIDN'T read that either...the woman CONFESSED to adultery..and if these men worked up the nerve to go do that to her and not stop her from committing THAT sin AT LEAST..and they too CONFESSED to it..they cannot be anything but what i said about them...PERVERTED..LOW..AND DISGUSTING..

thus BROTHER i was NOT judging..THEY CONFESSED into being what i said they are

P.S. i think there should be a notice in every thread stating...*reading an entire post before replying to it*..just to save the hassle for everyone!

Thank You!

wa alaikum assalam

 

[q8penpals]

Even the lawyer was suspended from duty? That's pretty crazy.

Also, the story is a bit confusing; it says in one line that the attackers and victim are from the Shia minority, and then in the next it says 7 of them were Sunni attackers.

My real question is: if they are known to be guilty of the rape, why have they not been sentenced with the death penalty when countless others in the same situation have been sentenced with it? Or can the punishment be selective if a Sunni male rapes a Shia female?

Salam

They attacker and victim were Shia FROM a Sunni majority community (as in, they lived in an area where Sunni are the majority, but they themselves were Shia). Thats the way I read it.

Lana

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

We are speculating on a subject matter where in we know little or no facts. We are fingerpointing. Yes, in the course of human affairs we sin. We have explict rules in the Quran to provide us instruction both collectively and individually.
Not one person on this forum is going to be able to make a change. We are in essence engaged in idle talk. Let us be careful.
Let us not walk down a path of ignorance. One has to remember adultery bring evil not only on the individual but on the family and the community. Therein are the so called harsh punishments...I am not a scholar. I am not a person of any knowldege of judisprudience. However, there are times when we need to refrain from comments..one time is when we have no facts of the matter.

 

[Muslimah99]

:salam2:


but once i found out that she was with this guy committing adultery..

i just thought...God works in mysterious ways!

she brought it upon herself (like i said)..and she is a lesson to all those MEN *AND* WOMEN who dare to commit adultery

sister, are you sure she commited adultery, that is interesting then she deserves the sentence

 

[podolski11]

i got a suggestion first take off the necks of the guys that raped the woman then cut the judges tongue for using it for being unjust then well off to the woman ermm kill her too... now thats justice or mayb we could stone the rapers n well dont know ...jz some weird out of this world suggestion....

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

I urge that we close this thread. It is speculation and we are writing in anger. It is of no instruction to anyone.

 

[seeking_peace1]

Salaam,

I urge that we close this thread. It is speculation and we are writing in anger. It is of no instruction to anyone.

Assalam-o-Alaikum.

i agree.

W'Salam.

 

[Optimist]

I agree ... better close the thread

I want just to point out that no one is justifying rape IF IT CAN BE PROVED. Again, in the UK, the rape crime conviciton rate is about 5% only and this is in case it has been reported. Rape is notoriously difficult to prove (the alternative argument that women often claim it when they are caught out does have some merit).

All rape is bad, but some are worse than others. If a theif raped a mother in her own house under duress it is not the same if someone slept with a lightly clad, drunk woman who did not know what was she doing at that time. The law may not recognise this but it is common sense.

Please although note that the rules of segregation are designed specifically to prevent such an atrocity. If you break them and it turns out bad then you are still calpable. It is similar to breaking the speed limit then having an accident. You may get horrible injuries and have lots of sympathy, but this does not remove your personal responsibility of what YOU DID TO YOURSELF. It is only worse if the accident involved others.

If you say bad things about judges then you will be punished in any legal system. Only last week a lawyer in Glasgow was punished for saying that the court did not serve justice or something to that effect.

Enough said.

 

[lostlilly07]

LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, MY COUSIN POST THE SAME STORY AND THE mABSOOT CLOSED IT
like what is going on, goldenmuslimah posted the same story and Mabsoot closed it, so why is this still open. Not that I have problem with it being open but you can allow one person to do something and when a second person does it.........they are punished by having their thread closed.

WA ALAIKUM SALAM BRO AND SISTER,