will all muslims kill their daughters in this situation?

nyerekareem

abdur-rahman
On her wedding night, Aisha Salim will hand her blooded sheets to her in-laws as proof of her virginity, according to a story in The Daily Telegraph of Australia.

But there’s one problem. Being a modern English university graduate, she is far from the traditional untouched Muslim bride.

Like most woman her age, Salim has smoked, drank, had sex and even lived with one of her past boyfriends.

However, if the devout Muslim family of her soon-to-be husband – or even her own family – knew this, she could be murdered.

Aisha has opted to have her virginity surgically restored in a delicate but painful surgery called hymenoplasties -- where the hymen is re-created from the already torn tissue, or a new membrane is inserted.

"If my husband cannot prove to his family that I am a virgin, I would be hounded, ostracised and sent home in disgrace,” Salim told England’s Daily Mail.

“My father, who is a devout Muslim, would regard it as the ultimate shame. The entire family could be cast out from the friends and society they hold dear, and I honestly believe that one of my fanatically religious cousins or uncles might kill me in revenge, to purge them of my sins. Incredible as it may seem, honour killings are still accepted within our religion.


"Ever since my family arranged this marriage for me, I've been terrified that, on my wedding night, my secret would come out. It has only been since my surgery last week that I've actually been able to sleep properly. Now, I can look forward to my marriage."

Salim is far from alone in seeking such drastic -- and almost barbaric -- surgery.

The rise in Islamic fundamentalism has seen 24 women in the U.K. have the procedure between 2005 and 2006.

"I've always adored my parents,” Salim said.

“My father, now 62, is a retired accountant and my mother raised a family of seven sisters in a five-bedroom house in Birmingham.

"I attended the local Catholic secondary school and although I wore a scarf on my head, I refused to wear a veil, telling my parents that it would make me stand out too much.

"I was one of the girls, totally accepted by my white, English friends whose lives revolved around shopping and fancying boys.

"But the moment I stepped over the doorstep, normal teenage life would cease and it was like entering an entirely different world. At home, we had to pray together five times a day.

"We weren't allowed to watch television. My parents were so worried that Western influences might take our minds off the most important things -- education and religion -- that we were never allowed to bring any schoolfriends home.

"But it made all the things my friends did more attractive to me. I would sneak out on Saturday afternoons and join them in town, hanging around, shopping and chatting to boys," Salim added.

:salam2:

here is my problem with the article. there is no islamic basis that a woman must in fact be a virgin on her wedding night. of course guarding one's chastity is encouraged in islam. anyone that knows the history of the life of our beloved prophet muhammad:saw: knows that only one of his wives viz. Aisha (ra) was the only virgin that he ever married. if non virgin women were good enough for him, who was the best that mankind had ever offered; it then should be of no shame to us either. i would be upset if my daughter was out and about drinking and comitting zinaa, but sins like zinaa and the consumption of alcohol are also sins for the people of the Book.

the whole blood/sheet testing is not islamic and obviously from a time of jahiliyya. if the sister has repented from her sins, they really should be kept to herself, and ALLAH SWT knows her repentance. furthermore, it is very discouraged and considered very sinful for either a man or woman to divulge one's intimate secrets. the very fact that the man would even share his wife's non virginity with others would be wrong. this article is only an attempt to make islam once again appear to be radical. unfortunately, the non muslim media cannot distinguish the difference between islam and a person's ethnic culture, thus making everything that happens in pakistan an islamic issue and not a pakistani issue or an islamic issue and not an arab custom issue. i also like how that they stress that she will be murdered as if it were set in stone that murder will definitely take place if her family finds out.

:wasalam:

nyerekareem
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
With full respect to your good intentions bro, can we have a rest from the daily mail and the like while we are on TTI ?
 

dna1987

Muslim Guy
^ Turntoislam.com: Clearing misconceptions about Islam

Hopefully any non-muslim who has read that article and nyerekareem's comment after will not be confused between the behaviour and culture of some Muslims and what Islam really teaches.

Salam alaikum.
 

Jannah03

Junior Member
thats why the quran states ' a virgin for a virgin and non-virgin for a non-virgin' i think you need to find a good muslim wife first ahki. ive seen way too many muslim/non-muslim marriages go down the drain because she doesnt want to become a muslim and when there are kids involved they take them and never see them again. you should really think about that, also for all the muslim women who want a muslim man in their life. but hey you want what you want

thats why the quran states ' a virgin for a virgin and non-virgin for a non-virgin' i think you need to find a good muslim wife first ahki. ive seen way too many muslim/non-muslim marriages go down the drain because she doesnt want to become a muslim and when there are kids involved they take them and never see them again. you should really think about that, also for all the muslim women who want a muslim man in their life. but hey you want what you want and kareem did not say they committed zina he was trying to make a point that the prophet married women who were widowed and non-virgins and that he did not make it a point to marry ALL virgins and that muhammad is the best example for all
 

Optimist

قل هو الله أحد
thats why the quran states ' a virgin for a virgin and non-virgin for a non-virgin'


I'm sorry bro, but where exactly does the Quran say that ? I'm fairly certain it dsnt actually. The Quran states that:

"Bad statements are for bad people (or bad women for bad men) and bad people for bad statements (or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people (or good women for good men) and good people for good statements (or good men for good women); such (good people) are innocent of (every) bad statement which they say; for them is Forgiveness, and Rizqun Karîm (generous provision i.e. Paradise)." 24:26

Please be careful in qouting from the Quran. Can someone please put a link to the latest thread about "giving own fatwa" ?
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
As a Muslim boy i can say it is better to marry Jewish or Christian girl which is virgin than muslims girl which commited zina,

:wasalam:

What you have said is an Islamic issue. To say something is "better" requires concrete evidence from Quran and Sunnah. If there is none, then say this issue is your own personal preference, do not say it as an Islamic issue or choice. Thats because it is not.

Person can not say anything without ISlamic evidence. Why is such a woman worse than Christian or Jewish who happen to be virgins? Certainly, if she did this as past mistake, it should not be held against her.

If you prefer to marry a chaste woman from Ahlul Kitaab (peope of the book) then that is fine, as this is something mentioned in the Qur'aan. ((also note, that the people of book still exist today, please ignore the ignorant people on youtube or wherever who say they do not ))

But, I would like to say that a lot of men who are raised with "Culturalised" ideas of Islam, tend to think it is worse for a woman to have sex before marriage. It is just as bad for men.

Not believing and worshipping Allah properly is something much worse. Allah forgives EVERY sin except Shirk. If person dies committing Shirk, this is not forgiven.


“Verily, Allaah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allaah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin”
[al-Nisa’ 4:48]

"Every wise and religiously-committed person should fear shirk for himself and should turn to his Lord, asking Him to help him avoid shirk, as al-Khaleel [Ibraaheem – peace be upon him] said:

“and keep me and my sons away from worshipping idols”

[Ibraaheem 14:35 – interpretation of the meaning]

One of the salaf said: “Who can claim to be safe from this after Ibraaheem?” " source: The true meaning of shirk and its types


So, yes someone might have made mistake, but if they feel bad for what they did in their past and now they are good and on the right way, we should not hold anything against them.

The Prophet :)saw:) said, "While a dog was going round a well and was about to die of thirst, a Jewish prostitute saw it and took off her shoe and watered it. So Allah, the Exalted forgave her because of that good deed. Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith;

If a prostitute can be forgiven, so can anyone.

Allah accepts the Taubah, sincere repentance of any believing man or woman. If a person did these things before they were Muslim, then they day they take shahada they are Muslim without sin.

-Say: "O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Quran 39:53

So, I am not advocating marrying people with bad character or morals! I am simply stating the Islamic fact, that even a bad Muslim is still Muslim and better than any non-Muslim, whether a person like this or not. Because they believe in Allah and the Prophet Muhammad :saw: Whether they are good for marriage is a different point. But, you said "committed zinaa", which is past tense.

I am sure nobody will be speaking to girls for marriage who are committing zinaa in present tense!
So, realistically speaking a good Muslim, will be wanting marry another good Muslim. If something does come up from their past, it should not be held against them, not if they have changed and are good now.
[SIZE=-1]People may say I am picky with the wording, but this is Islam. We have to be.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]And on final note:[/SIZE]

It is VERY Important people marry someone who truly follows Islam properly. Who has sound belief in Allah (see: tawheed / Aqeedah section). Who truly follows Islam based on the Quran and Sunnah with the understanding of the Pious predecessors.

How do people know if a person really is "holy" and "good Muslim"? A lot of New Muslims especially, end up choosing wrong people for marriage, due to their lack of Islamic knowledge and no Wali (Male guardian) or bad wali!! They think just because someone prays 5x or appears to be kind that they are marriage material. - This is wrong. They must make sure that their belief is correct. Simply praying is no benefit if the person does Shirk.
Following the right way

Fundamental Beliefs in Islam Tawheed and Aqeedah

Its important for everyone of us to wise up on how we should be following Islam. This will ensure our future and future of our families be good.

[SIZE=-1]wasalamu alaykum[/SIZE]
 

nyerekareem

abdur-rahman
As a Muslim boy i can say it is better to marry Jewish or Christian girl which is virgin than muslims girl which commited zina,
and very important point; dont speak about Prophets ? wives without knowledge, they were widows but never commited zina.


:salam2:

i have knowledge of the prophet's wives ( ra ) i said that only one of them wasn't a virgin when they married him. i never said they comitted zinaa. so you are wrong to say that i spoke without knowledge about his wives. his wives were good people but don't speak about them as they were infallible.

:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

It is important to remember piety is more important than virginity. We are not to point fingers. It is easier to clean the womb than to clean the soul.
 

riz_1982

Junior Member
It is another form of propaganda by the media. They are mixing the cultural practices with Islamic rulings and showing it off as Islam.
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
These are ayats which brother 'Jannah03' stated:
قال _تعالى_: "الزَّانِي لا يَنْكِحُ إِلَّا زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَالزَّانِيَةُ لا يَنْكِحُهَا إِلَّا زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ وَحُرِّمَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ" (النور:3).
Brother Mabsot you have very strange view of virgin girl, girl after commiting zina is not girl anymore, she is becoming woman automatically.
I want point out ayat _تعالى_: "الْخَبِيثَاتُ لِلْخَبِيثِينَ وَالْخَبِيثُونَ لِلْخَبِيثَاتِ وَالطَّيِّبَاتُ لِلطَّيِّبِينَ وَالطَّيِّبُونَ لِلطَّيِّبَاتِ" (النور: من الآية26). "Bad statements are for bad people(or bad woman for bad man) and bad people for bad statements(or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people(or good woman for good men) and good people for good statements(or good men for good women)..." AnNur26
And Hadith from tirmidhi and Nesai narated by Amr in Al As
والحديث أخرجه الترمذي والنسائي من حديث عمرو بن العاص _رضي الله عنه_ وحديث أبي هريرة _رضي الله عنه_ أنه قال _صلى الله عليه وسلم_: "الزاني المجلود لا ينكح إلا مثله". "Zani does not marry other than same as he/she is".


:salam2:

Let us understand these verses from the Quran as the scholars interpreted it, and not as we interpret it.

Allaah has forbidden the believers to marry a person who commits zina, whether man or woman. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The adulterer — fornicator marries not but an adulteress — fornicatress or a Mushrikah; and the adulteress –fornicatress, none marries her except an adulterer — fornicater or a Mushrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely, he is either an adulterer — fornicator, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater). And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer — fornicator, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islamic Monotheism)”

[al-Noor 24:3]


If the one who has committed zina repents to Allaah, truly and sincerely, then Allaah will forgive him or her, and overlook the sin. Allaah says, after mentioning the warning to those who commit zina:

“Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.

And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds; then verily, he repents towards Allaah with true repentance”

[al-Furqaan 25:70-71 – interpretation of the meaning]


If the person repents sincerely, then it becomes permissible for him or her to get married, after they give up this sin.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem was asked about the ruling on getting married to a woman who has committed zina. He said: “it is not permissible to marry the woman who has committed adultery until she repents… if a man wants to marry her, he has to be sure that she is not pregnant, by waiting until she has a period before he does the marriage contract with her. If she is pregnant, then it is not permissible for him to marry her until she has given birth.”

See al-Fataawa al-Jaami’ah li’l-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, 2/584

Also, let us not forget that it is not permitted to bring up the past of a person who regrets it and has repented and given up his sin; rather, this should be covered up.

“Whoever covers up his Muslim brother in this world, Allaah will cover him up in the Hereafter.” (A saheeh hadeeth reported by Imaam Ahmad; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 6287)

But if a person is immoral and corrupt, and still has relationships from before, then you should never, ever agree to marry him/her. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a mushrikah. And the woman who agrees to marry a mushrik or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a mushrikah. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers.” [al-Noor 24:3]

Ibn Katheer said, commenting on the phrase "Such a thing is forbidden to the believers": i.e., (it is forbidden for) a man to marry an immoral woman, or for a chaste woman to marry an immoral man. Hence Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said that the marriage contract between a chaste man and an immoral woman is invalid, so long as she remains like this, unless she is asked to repent and she does so, in which case the contract becomes valid, otherwise it is not valid. Similarly, the marriage of a free, chaste woman to a promiscuous, immoral man is invalid unless he repents sincerely, because Allaah says "Such a thing is forbidden to the believers".

Going back to the original subject of this thread, failure to bleed on the first night is not a sign of loss of virginity, nor is it recognized as such in Islamic Law.

There are numerous reasons why a woman might not bleed. A percentage of women do not bleed at all. Some women bleed ever so slightly that it avoids detection. Other women have had the most minor of childhood accidents or falls that broke the hymen and causes them not to bleed in maturity, and they may not even be aware that such an accident had taken place. Even lifting a heavy object, running, or jumping can cause it to break. Some girls break it through touching themselves.

For some women, the hymen does not break until childbirth.

We need to know that chastity and purity are character traits that exist quite independently of the hymen’s presence or absence.

Allah describes believing women as follows:

“So the righteous women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 34]

:salam2:
 

chayma_moslima

New Member
i think this is not about islam but about cultur. and i'm also shoke by the fect we all are woryd about if the parents know and the outside world know. but how about allah. he sees every thing.

chaymae
 

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
Who is to blame for this evil cultural practice ?

:salam2:

Jazak-Allah brothers Mabsoot and Happy2BAMuslim for your posts. Though I do not like bringing this kind of stuff to TTI but today I feel very strongly that I should put some references for this pagan, evil and cultural practice.

My intention is not to point fingers at anyone but just to put some light on the history concerning this practice.

PLEASE READ !!!

Jewish Rabbinical Perspective
"There were, of course, others who might examine accused brides. Dwyer, 63, notes the role of doctors in modern Morocco. In pre-modern times this role was performed by midwives
(see Westermarck, Marriage Ceremonies in Morocco, 229f.; Marcus, p. 324. M. Friedman, Ribbui Nashim Beyisra'el [Tel Aviv: Mosad Bialik etc., 1986], 169-170, 263).

According to the Midrash Hagadol, Isaac himself examined Rebekah digitally before their marriage
(Midrash Hagadol to Genesis 24:67 [ed. M. Margulies; Jerusalem: Mosad Harav Kook, 1967, 411]; according to Pirke Rabbi Eliezer, chap. 16, p. 38a, the examination consisted of digital defloration
[ref. courtesy of my colleague, Prof. Judah Goldin]).

Christian Perspective
According to the aprocryphal Book of James, sec. 19-20, Mary was likewise examined digitally for virginity by Salome
(New Testament Apocrypha, ed. E. Hennecke & W. Schneemelcher, 385; ref. courtesy of Prof. Tikva Frymer-Kensky and my colleague Prof. Robert A. Kraft)."

Not even Princess Diana was spared ....
At that period Prince Charles love life was linked with many glamorous women. He was even pressurized to find a wife as he was in his early thirties. Some of his marriage restriction were, he had to marry a virgin protestant and a member of the church of England with royal aristocratic background. Diana met this qualifications rather she had to prove one. She had to go through virginity test, to show that she has a spotless history.

If anyone have doubts concerning what I wrote then feel free to PM me and inshaAllah I will provide you proofs, as I do not like to put that CRAP here on forum.

:salam2:
 

Bawar

Struggling2Surrender
Some of the events the western media talk about may truely happen, but not exactly as they portray it.

There are over a billion muslims who are human beings just like the followers of any other religion
.
Some of them will be dumb, some deaf, some intelligent, some stupid. Some will follow Islam properly, others may follow local traditions and assume it is Islam. Some will have proper knowledge of Islam, others may follow only hearsay.

But it is wrong to generalise it to all the muslims of the world.

On the other hand, the same media will not generalise the crimes that are committed by those who are Christians.

We all know that the prisons are full of criminals, murderers, child molestrs, paedophiles in the US, UK and all other western countries and these people happen to be Christians.

Do we say Christians are paedophiles, rapists, murderers, thieves....

The answer is no.

So, shame on these media outlets who never get tired of their narrow minded, biggoted and racist attitude and lies.

I have a news for such media outlets too:

WHATEVER YOU FABRICATE AND SAY, THE NUMBER OF MUSLIMS, BORN AND CONVERTS IS INCREASING.

So, get over it, will you?


Wassalamu ala man-ittabaal huda
 

LittleMe1989

New Member
I'm sorry bro, but where exactly does the Quran say that ? I'm fairly certain it dsnt actually. The Quran states that:

"Bad statements are for bad people (or bad women for bad men) and bad people for bad statements (or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people (or good women for good men) and good people for good statements (or good men for good women); such (good people) are innocent of (every) bad statement which they say; for them is Forgiveness, and Rizqun Karîm (generous provision i.e. Paradise)." 24:26

Please be careful in qouting from the Quran. Can someone please put a link to the latest thread about "giving own fatwa" ?

exactly, very true and we should remember there is always sincere repentance...
 

LittleMe1989

New Member
These are ayats which brother 'Jannah03' stated:
قال _تعالى_: "الزَّانِي لا يَنْكِحُ إِلَّا زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَالزَّانِيَةُ لا يَنْكِحُهَا إِلَّا زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ وَحُرِّمَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ" (النور:3).
Brother Mabsot you have very strange view of virgin girl, girl after commiting zina is not girl anymore, she is becoming woman automatically.
I want point out ayat _تعالى_: "الْخَبِيثَاتُ لِلْخَبِيثِينَ وَالْخَبِيثُونَ لِلْخَبِيثَاتِ وَالطَّيِّبَاتُ لِلطَّيِّبِينَ وَالطَّيِّبُونَ لِلطَّيِّبَاتِ" (النور: من الآية26). "Bad statements are for bad people(or bad woman for bad man) and bad people for bad statements(or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people(or good woman for good men) and good people for good statements(or good men for good women)..." AnNur26
And Hadith from tirmidhi and Nesai narated by Amr in Al As
والحديث أخرجه الترمذي والنسائي من حديث عمرو بن العاص _رضي الله عنه_ وحديث أبي هريرة _رضي الله عنه_ أنه قال _صلى الله عليه وسلم_: "الزاني المجلود لا ينكح إلا مثله". "Zani does not marry other than same as he/she is".

I don't see what problem you have with Mabsoot's statement, it is correct and Mabsoot is as I have noticed always knowledgeable in these subjects so you should rather see it from an islamic point of view, not cultural.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

Let us move on. Brother Adriatic Boy, stop it. I have to refrain myself from giving you a lecture. You have no clue what you are saying. Be careful, son. You are very young. You have opinions that reveal your youth and lack of experience in the world. Some matters that involve intimacy should not be broadcast. Allah subhana talla forgives us and only He can judge us...so leave it alone. You can not judge what path a woman may have to walk on to reach the path of salvation..so leave it alone.!!! or else I will lecture you!
 

Muslimah99

Bosnian Muslimah
These are ayats which brother 'Jannah03' stated:
قال _تعالى_: "الزَّانِي لا يَنْكِحُ إِلَّا زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَالزَّانِيَةُ لا يَنْكِحُهَا إِلَّا زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ وَحُرِّمَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ" (النور:3).
Brother Mabsot you have very strange view of virgin girl, girl after commiting zina is not girl anymore, she is becoming woman automatically.
I want point out ayat _تعالى_: "الْخَبِيثَاتُ لِلْخَبِيثِينَ وَالْخَبِيثُونَ لِلْخَبِيثَاتِ وَالطَّيِّبَاتُ لِلطَّيِّبِينَ وَالطَّيِّبُونَ لِلطَّيِّبَاتِ" (النور: من الآية26). "Bad statements are for bad people(or bad woman for bad man) and bad people for bad statements(or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people(or good woman for good men) and good people for good statements(or good men for good women)..." AnNur26
And Hadith from tirmidhi and Nesai narated by Amr in Al As
والحديث أخرجه الترمذي والنسائي من حديث عمرو بن العاص _رضي الله عنه_ وحديث أبي هريرة _رضي الله عنه_ أنه قال _صلى الله عليه وسلم_: "الزاني المجلود لا ينكح إلا مثله". "Zani does not marry other than same as he/she is".


ufff didn't you read what mabsoot wrote?? OMG YOU SOUND LIKE MY MOTHER, typical Bosno-Turkish culture!!

Allah is forgiving brother, and as we know from a hadith that someone who has repented is like someone who has never sinned.

I would recommend you to be less judgemental...
 
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