Arguing your point?!

Amirah84

Junior Member
:salam2:

I hope you're all in the best state of emaan and health.

I have a friend, a co-worker, who is a convert to Christianity from an old African religion - maybe a pagan religion.
So I've spent some time speaking to this friend of mine about Islam. She is a very strong believer of Christianity I would say. A blind believer. This is because even if I point out something obvious to her she would say something along the lines of " I just have to believe it "...
So I've come to a point in which I don't think it makes a difference if I tell her about this or that. Also I feel that it's not a discussion but rather a contest of who's right and who's wrong. I even get worked up about it at times. Then...then you see I get mad at myself. I think " SubhanAllah. Allah blessed me with the truth, why get worked up about what she says? "
I've noticed that one of the worst things you can do is to get in to a tug-of-war with anyone about your religion. Why should we? There is no need whatsoever.
At the end of the day...There is no compulsion in religion. And our duty is to convey the message, however much we know of it. But it's not up to me if she listens to any of it or not. So I'd leave her to it now.

I'm wondering if I'm being wrong here or not. I don't kno if Ive made myself clear. Sorry.

:wasalam:
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum.

If they are persistant in what they are upon, then as you said our duty is only to convey. The messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam use to say, "whomsoever Allaah guides, none can misguide him, and whomsover he misguides, there is no one to guide him" [The Khutbat ul-Haajjah]. Many people are arguementative, my advice is avoid them. We have been commanded to argue with the people in the best manner.

I don't see the problem, inshaa' Allaah you've done what you can, so what more is there? Not everyone is to be guided to Islaam. Despite its irrefutable truth, there still exist many who oppose it, and we can't seem to think how someone could be so "blind". I'm sure you know what I mean, but I'll leave you with what Shaykh `Abdul-`Aziz Ibn `Abdullaah Ibn Baaz, rahimahullaah said in explaining the early part of the book, "Thalaathat ul-Usool". He said that it is imperative on one to call to Allaah according to his knowledge and ability.

So let's focus upon doing what we are required, and hope that Allaah guides the people to Islaam through us, that we may be rewarded inshaa' Allaah.
 

alkathiri

As-Shafaa'i(Brother)
:salam2:

I hope you're all in the best state of emaan and health.

I have a friend, a co-worker, who is a convert to Christianity from an old African religion - maybe a pagan religion.
So I've spent some time speaking to this friend of mine about Islam. She is a very strong believer of Christianity I would say. A blind believer. This is because even if I point out something obvious to her she would say something along the lines of " I just have to believe it "...
So I've come to a point in which I don't think it makes a difference if I tell her about this or that. Also I feel that it's not a discussion but rather a contest of who's right and who's wrong. I even get worked up about it at times. Then...then you see I get mad at myself. I think " SubhanAllah. Allah blessed me with the truth, why get worked up about what she says? "
I've noticed that one of the worst things you can do is to get in to a tug-of-war with anyone about your religion. Why should we? There is no need whatsoever.
At the end of the day...There is no compulsion in religion. And our duty is to convey the message, however much we know of it. But it's not up to me if she listens to any of it or not. So I'd leave her to it now.

I'm wondering if I'm being wrong here or not. I don't kno if Ive made myself clear. Sorry.

:wasalam:

:salam2:

well sister, do da'wah to others who are in need of it and deserve your attention then those blind followers....
 

ditta

Alhamdu'Lillaah
Staff member
Asalaamu'Alykum,

Alhamdulilah. This thread helped because i was sort of explaining Islam to my lecturer, he started it, not me. Like with the teddy bear thing, he seemed aggressive. He is an atheist although to be honest he contradicts himself with his actions, like many atheists in my opinion. There is a limit of what you can do although i think like many lecturers they need Islam.

Wasalam
 

hussain.mahammed

a lonely traveller
As salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wabrakatuhu

The wise man (or woman) does not argue or seek to overcome with stratagem rather he propagates his (or her) wisdom. If it is accepted he (or she) praises Allah Subhanahu wa Taala, if it is rejected he (or she) praises Allah Subhanahu wa Taala.

wa/salam
 

gazkour

Junior Member
Assalmo alikomwa rahmato Allah wa barakato

Sister,

When we engage in this kind of discussions we obviously have a very good intention, but unfortunately, some of them just seem to see what they want to see (it's their right and choice anyway) . Logically that is going to cause us a lot of frustration. Consecuently instead of doing something right we're going to end up just causing probably more rejection....Allah knows best.

I have learnt by experience, NEVER to touch the topic UNLESSis them who approach me and are really interested in learning or discussing something.

The best form of Dawa is by showing how beautiful Islam is, through our actions and daily life.

Remember we are embassadorsof Islam.

May Allah guide us all.
 

Amirah84

Junior Member
:salam2:

JAzakhuAllah khair for all your responses and advice. I know many threads have discussed the issue below. I think what probably frustrated me was that I didn't know how to answer her claims about the bible. Maybe what actually frustrated me even more is why I haven't studied the books of tawheed, or the seerah of our Prophet in a depth to be able to tell others about it. For example she would quote something from the bible to say that jesus told us to worship him. But actually it would just be an interpretation to support what she had been taught to be right. E.g. The banana is yellow...so therefore it is the colour of the sun, the sun gives life and so the banana is life itself. And the Earth is banana shaped too!

E.g. one of the claims was the supposed saying of Isa (Jesus) alyhi wa salam : You only get to the father through me, or whoever has seen me has seen the father. This to me means whoever follows my way is following the rght way, the way to God. But to her it means that God is 3.

She has now said that she'll bring her bible to show me these passages and she invites me to church. I told her I wouldn't go to her church because to me they do blasphemy against God. But I invited her to the mosque. I don't want to read her bible. I'm not interested in studying Christianity to make her understand Islam. I have seen a brother in Understanding Islam (the paltalk room) explain to non-muslims what Islam is and refute their claims of God being 3 by using the Quran and Sunnah. He doesn't dwell into their bible. It's beautiful because he only uses the truth to show the truth.

So my question is how do I get out of this without 1)making her feel that she has made a point and 2) making her unfriendly at work? What is a polite way of saying NO?
And has anyone been in this situation before?

gazkour...I will def. take your advice about dawah.

JazakhuAllah khair for all the advice brothers and sister, May Allah grant you knowledge and understanding of our deen, ameen
:wasalam:
 

Sweet Insanity

90's Child
:salam2:

I hope you're all in the best state of emaan and health.

I have a friend, a co-worker, who is a convert to Christianity from an old African religion - maybe a pagan religion.
So I've spent some time speaking to this friend of mine about Islam. She is a very strong believer of Christianity I would say. A blind believer. This is because even if I point out something obvious to her she would say something along the lines of " I just have to believe it "...
So I've come to a point in which I don't think it makes a difference if I tell her about this or that. Also I feel that it's not a discussion but rather a contest of who's right and who's wrong. I even get worked up about it at times. Then...then you see I get mad at myself. I think " SubhanAllah. Allah blessed me with the truth, why get worked up about what she says? "
Ive noticed that one of the worst things you can do is to get in to a tug-of-war with anyone about your religion. Why should we? There is no need whatsoever.
At the end of the day...There is no compulsion in religion. And our duty is to convey the message, however much we know of it. But it's not up to me if she listens to any of it or not. So I'd leave her to it now.

I'm wondering if I'm being wrong here or not. I don't kno if Ive made myself clear. Sorry.

:wasalam:

i started talking to a gitl cas she called me (sorry yes i know this is a Muslim website but im quoting ok) a "*!*!*!*!ing iraqi terrorist"
she was like "why do u guys just kil urself and then ask 4 america to help u"

so instead of screaming back at her i started telling her about all the lies about the american media... so she started to calm down a bit and started asking me about Islam.. like whats Mekka and stuff like that, so i just started answering her questions and stuff and we got to know eachother... she turned from hating everyone that wasnt white, to loving all of Gods creatures and now she wants to become a Muslim... all u have to do is calmly talk to the person.. if she tells u "i have to believe it" ask her "who told u that? a religion that is forced upon you for no reason is not a religion at all" and just keep talking to her...
a lot of Christians are truly blind i used to go to church to study about Christianity, and priest couldnt even answer some of my questions about it...
but what im starting to realize is Shieks are doing that too now... and theyre extremists.. like telling u to beat ur children when the start to communicate and dont pray (a book i read).. this is not true as u r supposed to pray when u hit puberty.
and the Prophet (PBUH) said to practice Islam in moderation and to not overburden yourself...

ok going off topic...
bottom line... keep talking! she converted once.. why? cas people kept telling her "believe this! we aint gonna give u an explanation but u just have to!".. why shouldnt she convert to a religion that explains everything 2 u...
i guess cas shes new, she kinda thinks shes all that and she knows all and she made the right choice... just give it time and keep talking!

God Bless!
 

Quratulaine

Junior Member
:salam2:

JAzakhuAllah khair for all your responses and advice. I know many threads have discussed the issue below. I think what probably frustrated me was that I didn't know how to answer her claims about the bible. Maybe what actually frustrated me even more is why I haven't studied the books of tawheed, or the seerah of our Prophet in a depth to be able to tell others about it. For example she would quote something from the bible to say that jesus told us to worship him. But actually it would just be an interpretation to support what she had been taught to be right. E.g. The banana is yellow...so therefore it is the colour of the sun, the sun gives life and so the banana is life itself. And the Earth is banana shaped too!

E.g. one of the claims was the supposed saying of Isa (Jesus) alyhi wa salam : You only get to the father through me, or whoever has seen me has seen the father. This to me means whoever follows my way is following the rght way, the way to God. But to her it means that God is 3.

She has now said that she'll bring her bible to show me these passages and she invites me to church. I told her I wouldn't go to her church because to me they do blasphemy against God. But I invited her to the mosque. I don't want to read her bible. I'm not interested in studying Christianity to make her understand Islam. I have seen a brother in Understanding Islam (the paltalk room) explain to non-muslims what Islam is and refute their claims of God being 3 by using the Quran and Sunnah. He doesn't dwell into their bible. It's beautiful because he only uses the truth to show the truth.

So my question is how do I get out of this without 1)making her feel that she has made a point and 2) making her unfriendly at work? What is a polite way of saying NO?
And has anyone been in this situation before?

gazkour...I will def. take your advice about dawah.

JazakhuAllah khair for all the advice brothers and sister, May Allah grant you knowledge and understanding of our deen, ameen
:wasalam:

:salam2:

I think your intentions are good, and it sounds like you guys could have interesting discussions....it might not hurt to read and study the bible. To have a dialogue with people of other faiths, it helps to have knowledge of other religions. And muslims do believe in the original message of the bible...I read the English translation of the Quran by Maulana Muhammed Ali and he references the bible at time in his footnotes, which has opened up my eyes to alot of things in the bible which are referenced in the Quran (and vice versa).

:wasalam:
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Sorry, a bit off topic....

:salam2:

I think your intentions are good, and it sounds like you guys could have interesting discussions....it might not hurt to read and study the bible. To have a dialogue with people of other faiths, it helps to have knowledge of other religions. And muslims do believe in the original message of the bible...I read the English translation of the Quran by Maulana Muhammed Ali and he references the bible at time in his footnotes, which has opened up my eyes to alot of things in the bible which are referenced in the Quran (and vice versa).

:wasalam:

wa alaykum salam

this had to be said... Muhammad Ali is not a Muslim, and nor is the Ahmediyya / Qadiani sect he was part of. Nobody disputes this, they appoint a prophet after the Prophet sallahu alayhi wa salaam was stated as the seal of the Prophets and they follow and believe in corrupted beliefs afterwards. Here are some quotes on his biography, followed by a link with further information.

Brief life
Born in 1874 in Punjab (India), Maulana Muhammad Ali achieved a very high distinction in his academic studies and obtained degrees in English (M.A.) and Law (Ll. B.) by the year 1899. He joined the Ahmadiyya Movement in 1897.

As he stood on the threshold of a lucrative career in law in 1900, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement, called on him to devote his life to the service of Islam. He forthwith abandoned his worldly plans and went and joined the Great Reformer in Qadian. Here he learnt those gems of Islamic truth which were uncovered in this age by Hazrat Mirza, through which Islam was now going to attract the hearts of people all over the world.

And this is after the Deen has been completed and the final messenger sent:

"This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'aan 5:3)

And as the Prophet sallahu alayhi wa sallam says in his Farewell sermon:

"Remember one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people."


Why Qadianis are not Muslims


So I'd be careful when taking information from different sources is all I'm saying.

wasalam
 

AliIbanez

A Stranger in Dunyah
You're right. You're job is to only convey the message, nothing more, nothing less. Well my advice to you sis is an advice to us by Allah swt in the Quran.

O people of the scripture! Come to a word common to you and us that we worship none but Allah and that we associate nothing in worship with Him, and that none of us shall take others as Lords beside Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: Bear witness that WE ARE MUSLIMS (those who have surrendered to Allah).' (3:64).

Just say the last words and maybe she'll never annoy you again. And if she became unfriendly to you just because you only convey the message of Allah swt, then it's no longer you're fault.

Assalamualaikum
 

Quratulaine

Junior Member
wa alaykum salam

this had to be said... Muhammad Ali is not a Muslim, and nor is the Ahmediyya / Qadiani sect he was part of. Nobody disputes this, they appoint a prophet after the Prophet sallahu alayhi wa salaam was stated as the seal of the Prophets and they follow and believe in corrupted beliefs afterwards. Here are some quotes on his biography, followed by a link with further information.



And this is after the Deen has been completed and the final messenger sent:

"This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'aan 5:3)

And as the Prophet sallahu alayhi wa sallam says in his Farewell sermon:

"Remember one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people."


Why Qadianis are not Muslims


So I'd be careful when taking information from different sources is all I'm saying.

wasalam

:salam2:

oh, i never realized that about him. it seemed to be a good translation and his explanation about islam at the beginning of the quran was my first introduction to the religion, and it seemed to be pretty consistant with the things you guys discuss on here.

anyways...could you recommend a good translation of the quran with a very indepth explanation of the verses in english? (i know i've asked this before..)

thanks:wasalam:
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
:salam2:

oh, i never realized that about him. it seemed to be a good translation and his explanation about islam at the beginning of the quran was my first introduction to the religion, and it seemed to be pretty consistant with the things you guys discuss on here.

anyways...could you recommend a good translation of the quran with a very indepth explanation of the verses in english? (i know i've asked this before..)

thanks:wasalam:

wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullah

I know, many people dont know. Someone put one such Qur'aan by him in our Masjid library somehow, my father saw it, and so then realizing who it was, placed it into this "burn box" we have, with arabic scripts that need to be disposed properly. So along come some other brothers and go :eek: thinking someone put the Qur'aan in the burn box, and so they pick it up and put it back on the shelf. My father sees that again, and so then he marks it as being wrong and sends it back, STILL someone picks it up again :lol: , finally he brought it home, so I have a copy of this Qur'aan too. I've only looked at it once, and something bothred me so I left it.

It may be consistant with a few things, but when you look further in-depth some things that are commented on seem funky, I dont remember quite what. Its kind of funny that not even Shia consider these people as Muslims, and they messed up themselves :p

As for a good translation, I usuall recommend the translation of Muhsin Khan ...

Here on this link you can find many links for it insha'allah: English Qur'aan


It has more detail in it. Some may not like captions, but it clarifys things in the ayah which may result from the tafsir and one would not understand through direct translation.

Also this webiste has Tafsir Ibn Katheer in it on the side as well as translations, and reading that as a back source many times helps.

http://en.quran.nu/ < Clicking the box for tafsir then going to Surah

wasalam
 
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