well nation of islam contradict them wen they say ELIJAH MUHAMMED IS THE MESSENGER (OF ALLAH). to be a messenger "of allah" one must be a messenger and a prophet.... but they now deny elijah was a prophet.... and in the caise of islam... wen allah spkz of messengers.... it is clear he is speaking of prophets. and our shahadah is "there is no god ut allah and muhammed is the "FINAL" prophet AND messenger of ALLAH... THE AND BETWEEN MESSENGER AND PROPHET DUZ NOT INDICATE A DIFFERENT MEANING OF THE TWO IN THE CAISE OF ISLAM.... IT MEANS HE WAS THE FINAL PROPHET AND FINAL MESSENGER OF ALLAH..... I WILL POINT ANOTHER THREAD AFTER A REPLY TO THIS ONE.... WHICH INSHALLAH WILL END THIS MANZ STUPIDITY AND UTTER FALSE KNOWLEDGE..... and inshallah ur heart brova will be at ease.... and if he duz carry on den on the day of judgement wen allah asks the man did no1 not warn u of the truth his lipz will never be able to say no..... becoz surely u my brova have warned him.
Concerning verse 44:5
- Thread starter Jibran
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Final Prophethood concludes all messengers-hoods
Assalamu Alaikum: This is my very humble understanding:
Allah-SWT has explained all the very basics or fundamentals in Quran (Ummul Kitab per 3:7) upon which faith is based. Only Allah-SWT know the allegorics/mutashabihaat per same verse 3:7.
Does it matter to debate whether Mohammed(Peace Be Upon His Soul), the Final Prophet and messenger (33:40), was a last messenger or not a last messenger? If one believes Quran as final message and believes that message is brought by final prophet Mohammed (PBUHS) and Mohammed(PBUHS) was the person to confirm that Final message as Final Word of Allah-SWT that is enough for a believer to believe.
Assalamu Alaikum: This is my very humble understanding:
Allah-SWT has explained all the very basics or fundamentals in Quran (Ummul Kitab per 3:7) upon which faith is based. Only Allah-SWT know the allegorics/mutashabihaat per same verse 3:7.
Does it matter to debate whether Mohammed(Peace Be Upon His Soul), the Final Prophet and messenger (33:40), was a last messenger or not a last messenger? If one believes Quran as final message and believes that message is brought by final prophet Mohammed (PBUHS) and Mohammed(PBUHS) was the person to confirm that Final message as Final Word of Allah-SWT that is enough for a believer to believe.
Serafeddin
New Member
:salam2:, perhaps 44.3,44.4 should be read together to get the meaning of 44.5. When I read them, i understood as for that night when Quran was revealed and that night "we were sending a messenger". I don't understand Arabic but it was the translation of the verses.
wasalm
wasalm
Basicofislam
sister
Interesting
my brother, more information for u on the NATION OF ISLAM!!
their god is not ALLAH their god is dead their god was FARD MUHAMMED (the man who started off the nation of islam.... he claimed he was bron in mecca and was god in the shape of a human.... bia nd fbi records show he is of mixed european and polynesian percentage and it is uncertain that he was born in New Zealand or in Portland, Oregon, of parents who came from Hawaii. A recent researcher believes that Dodd was a New Zealander of half-Indian descent... and both info comes from hardcore dna results.... and also the evidence of his dna prove he cud hav not of cum from the city of mecca or even born their and that his ancestors cud not hav even bn from their... otherwise his dna wudve showed him as arab decent. also fbi nd cia results show he is identical to a man named as Wallace Dodd Ford whom was aressted for drug offences, but mr fard rejected this and proclaimed his name to be FARD MUHAMMED). HE LIVED A LIFE AND HE DIED.... WAT AN SO CALLED AMAZING GOD HE WAS... CUDNT EVEN SAVE HIS OWN DEATH YET HE SO CALLS TO GIVE LIFE AND GIVE DEATH. this is sum light on the nations belief of fard muhammed whose student was elijah muhammed. i will give u more info on the entire nation if u wud like 2 know nefing more.... just reply... becoz this will help u to put forward sum things to this man!!!
their god is not ALLAH their god is dead their god was FARD MUHAMMED (the man who started off the nation of islam.... he claimed he was bron in mecca and was god in the shape of a human.... bia nd fbi records show he is of mixed european and polynesian percentage and it is uncertain that he was born in New Zealand or in Portland, Oregon, of parents who came from Hawaii. A recent researcher believes that Dodd was a New Zealander of half-Indian descent... and both info comes from hardcore dna results.... and also the evidence of his dna prove he cud hav not of cum from the city of mecca or even born their and that his ancestors cud not hav even bn from their... otherwise his dna wudve showed him as arab decent. also fbi nd cia results show he is identical to a man named as Wallace Dodd Ford whom was aressted for drug offences, but mr fard rejected this and proclaimed his name to be FARD MUHAMMED). HE LIVED A LIFE AND HE DIED.... WAT AN SO CALLED AMAZING GOD HE WAS... CUDNT EVEN SAVE HIS OWN DEATH YET HE SO CALLS TO GIVE LIFE AND GIVE DEATH. this is sum light on the nations belief of fard muhammed whose student was elijah muhammed. i will give u more info on the entire nation if u wud like 2 know nefing more.... just reply... becoz this will help u to put forward sum things to this man!!!
Ahmed ibn Ibrahim
alhamdulilah
And our Survey says..!
Salam,
In my humble opinion, the difference between Prophet and Messenger is clear. As the Qu'ran says, Muhammad PBUH was the final Prophet, revealing the truth clearly for all and confirming the law that came before him. A messenger is something different, and as the Qu'ranic verse says - "We are ever sending the messengers".
What is a messenger? It's a person who carries a message, not stipulating that the information was divinely revealed or that the person understands the whole picture. By this rationale I would say that every one of us who carries the message of Islam, from the child who knows only a couple verses of the Qu'ran to the most esteemed Imam, is indeed a messenger of God.
Don't let that get to your head, though, as some Islamic-like group leaders have. Messengers are flawed people, capable of making mistakes and misinterpreting what information they carry - unlike a Prophet, who has had a message revealed by God, carries and conveys that message, and is in perfect harmony with Allah's will and therefore incapable of making the sorts of mistakes that we messengers can.
That's my opinion. =) Of course I respect all of your opinions on this, too. May Allah give clarity to our hearts. I hope He's keeping you all in good health and happiness, InshaAllah. Take care.
Wasalam.
Salam,
In my humble opinion, the difference between Prophet and Messenger is clear. As the Qu'ran says, Muhammad PBUH was the final Prophet, revealing the truth clearly for all and confirming the law that came before him. A messenger is something different, and as the Qu'ranic verse says - "We are ever sending the messengers".
What is a messenger? It's a person who carries a message, not stipulating that the information was divinely revealed or that the person understands the whole picture. By this rationale I would say that every one of us who carries the message of Islam, from the child who knows only a couple verses of the Qu'ran to the most esteemed Imam, is indeed a messenger of God.
Don't let that get to your head, though, as some Islamic-like group leaders have. Messengers are flawed people, capable of making mistakes and misinterpreting what information they carry - unlike a Prophet, who has had a message revealed by God, carries and conveys that message, and is in perfect harmony with Allah's will and therefore incapable of making the sorts of mistakes that we messengers can.
That's my opinion. =) Of course I respect all of your opinions on this, too. May Allah give clarity to our hearts. I hope He's keeping you all in good health and happiness, InshaAllah. Take care.
Wasalam.
Aslam o Alikum!
I agree with you brother. U can not judge Quran or any other book on just one verse or line. U have to see the whole thing in context .
This particular verse is from surah(chapter) Dukhan and the verse is 5 as the brother has already stated but if you see the earlier verse i.e. verse 3 it says
"Behold, from on high have We bestowed it on a blessed night: for, verily, We have always been warning [man]. "
Now consider an example
(If a friend of mine is doing something wrong and at the end he falls in trouble due to that wrong act and he comes to me to tells me that he is in trouble.
and e.g. I say to him "I have always warned you about this"
now this does not imply that I am talking about future. Clearly I am talking about the past that I warned him of the consequences of what he was doing.)
This verse is very much in the same manner Allah tells us that he has sent messengers and prophets in past but the prophet hood ends with prophet Mohammad(SAW). This testimony is also mentioned in Quran.
So be sure that there is no mistake or contradiction is Quran. just use ur head, see the things in context and try to answer people with Hikma(Intelligence) who raise such questions.
May ALLAH guides to the right path(Ameen)
Wsalam
I agree with you brother. U can not judge Quran or any other book on just one verse or line. U have to see the whole thing in context .
This particular verse is from surah(chapter) Dukhan and the verse is 5 as the brother has already stated but if you see the earlier verse i.e. verse 3 it says
"Behold, from on high have We bestowed it on a blessed night: for, verily, We have always been warning [man]. "
Now consider an example
(If a friend of mine is doing something wrong and at the end he falls in trouble due to that wrong act and he comes to me to tells me that he is in trouble.
and e.g. I say to him "I have always warned you about this"
now this does not imply that I am talking about future. Clearly I am talking about the past that I warned him of the consequences of what he was doing.)
This verse is very much in the same manner Allah tells us that he has sent messengers and prophets in past but the prophet hood ends with prophet Mohammad(SAW). This testimony is also mentioned in Quran.
So be sure that there is no mistake or contradiction is Quran. just use ur head, see the things in context and try to answer people with Hikma(Intelligence) who raise such questions.
May ALLAH guides to the right path(Ameen)
Wsalam
IMPORTANT !!!
Aslam O Alikum Brothers and Sisters!
I see that most of the replys from U people are regarding this point are in accordance to the understanding of a muslim. But what if a non-muslim sees this as a contradiction in Quran? So try and answer in a way that a non-muslim can also understand it.
Being a muslim I dont doubt Quran. But if a non-muslim asks us such a question we should be able to answer him/her accordingly.
I have tried to answer this but InshaAllah from ur answers I will be able to get a more commanding grip on the topic.
Thanx
Wsalam
Aslam O Alikum Brothers and Sisters!
I see that most of the replys from U people are regarding this point are in accordance to the understanding of a muslim. But what if a non-muslim sees this as a contradiction in Quran? So try and answer in a way that a non-muslim can also understand it.
Being a muslim I dont doubt Quran. But if a non-muslim asks us such a question we should be able to answer him/her accordingly.
I have tried to answer this but InshaAllah from ur answers I will be able to get a more commanding grip on the topic.
Thanx
Wsalam
LEAVIN MESSAGE
ASSLAMUALAIKUM,
i have left many comments and wud like 2 leave this debate by sayin the following...... dnt 4get..a prophet is a messenger of allah....
normally i wud go into detail but id jus be repeating myself.... read my comment of the difference between A PROPHET AND A MESSENGER.... nd i wud like ppl hu are stuk on this subject to study the difference on A PROPHET AND MESSENGER 2 UNDERSTAND...
muhammed (pbuh) is the seal of the prophets... he has closed the line of prophets and meaning he has also closed the line of messengers OF ALLAH.... though ppl like us who give dawwah become a messenger... but not a messenger in the context of how allah spkz of.... those messengers allah skz of are commanded by allah and are spoken to eitha by direct or a angel to spread a message and this was only dun 2 prophets... so no1 afta the prophet cud be a MESSENGER IN THE CONTEXT ALLAH SPKZ OF BUT CAN BE A MESSENGER IN THE SENSE OF HOW WE LEARN IN A NON-RELIGIOUS MEANING.
ASSALAMUALAIKUM
ASSLAMUALAIKUM,
i have left many comments and wud like 2 leave this debate by sayin the following...... dnt 4get..a prophet is a messenger of allah....
normally i wud go into detail but id jus be repeating myself.... read my comment of the difference between A PROPHET AND A MESSENGER.... nd i wud like ppl hu are stuk on this subject to study the difference on A PROPHET AND MESSENGER 2 UNDERSTAND...
muhammed (pbuh) is the seal of the prophets... he has closed the line of prophets and meaning he has also closed the line of messengers OF ALLAH.... though ppl like us who give dawwah become a messenger... but not a messenger in the context of how allah spkz of.... those messengers allah skz of are commanded by allah and are spoken to eitha by direct or a angel to spread a message and this was only dun 2 prophets... so no1 afta the prophet cud be a MESSENGER IN THE CONTEXT ALLAH SPKZ OF BUT CAN BE A MESSENGER IN THE SENSE OF HOW WE LEARN IN A NON-RELIGIOUS MEANING.
ASSALAMUALAIKUM
Durriyyah
Forever Student
:salam2:
The English translation I have (by 'Abudllah Yusuf 'Ali) of 44:5 says:
"By command, from Our presence. We (ever) send (revelations),"
It says revelations and not messengers. This is a very trust worthy translation so I'm wondering if I am the only one that has this translation. Maybe if it says in arabic "messengers" it is still talking about revelations in the form of dreams or something of that sort.
The English translation I have (by 'Abudllah Yusuf 'Ali) of 44:5 says:
"By command, from Our presence. We (ever) send (revelations),"
It says revelations and not messengers. This is a very trust worthy translation so I'm wondering if I am the only one that has this translation. Maybe if it says in arabic "messengers" it is still talking about revelations in the form of dreams or something of that sort.
I agree with Whitefyre.
Arabic explanation:
" أمرا من عندنا " أي جميع ما يكون ويقدره الله تعالى وما يوحيه فبأمره وإذنه وعلمه " إنا كنا مرسلين" أي إلى الناس رسولا يتلو عليهم آيات الله مبينات فإن الحاجة كانت ماسة
Translation of the verse in English:
"By command, from Our Presence. For We (ever) send (revelations),"
The verse is about the message of Allah comprised within the holy Quran.
As you can see, these deviant groups (like the nation of Islam) leader's think they are miracles in themselves or revelations from God. In other words, they consider themselves prophets, and that's blasphemous. Unfortunately, many of their followers don't understand the true Islam, and it is our duty to explain it to them.
Arabic explanation:
" أمرا من عندنا " أي جميع ما يكون ويقدره الله تعالى وما يوحيه فبأمره وإذنه وعلمه " إنا كنا مرسلين" أي إلى الناس رسولا يتلو عليهم آيات الله مبينات فإن الحاجة كانت ماسة
Translation of the verse in English:
"By command, from Our Presence. For We (ever) send (revelations),"
The verse is about the message of Allah comprised within the holy Quran.
As you can see, these deviant groups (like the nation of Islam) leader's think they are miracles in themselves or revelations from God. In other words, they consider themselves prophets, and that's blasphemous. Unfortunately, many of their followers don't understand the true Islam, and it is our duty to explain it to them.
Reply
:salam2:
thanks to the all mighty God for his blessings, may his peace and blessings be upon prophet mohamed (pbuhaf)
The verse you delivered was mentioned from the Quran, it's a true verse, but don't forget it's a part of the Quran, something the ignorants would always try to misinterpret...
Here's something for all the believers to hold on to, I also suggest that each one of us send this reply to the submission.org website to accertain them of the noble Quran...
Lord the all mighty also mentioned in the Surah of Al Qadr,
Tatanazzalul Malaa'ikatu walRoohu Feeha bi'idhni Rabbihim Min Kulli Amrin...
Angels and Spirits decend down by the permission of the AllMighty Lord in each order and command
And also when God's massengers came down to Abraham (pbuhaf) they had informed him that they were "Rusul" from the All Mighty Lord, and they were sent for his brother LOT against his people...
So, angels and spirits are massengers too, massengers of God... So, each year ever since the day of the revelation of the Quran upto the days of the judgement, we'll have angels descending for many purposes, especially those of the Qadr's night.
Then we turn to the descending of Angels at the dawns and Maghribs, looking for people repenting from their sins, for people praying from their lord for mercy and his blessings...
Brothers and sisters hold fast with your religion, people of suspect are people of little knowledge, they are the ignorants and our lord and his prophet have ordered us to beat the opponent of ignorance with knowledge, anyone who would first go and guide the people of the submission.org with these phrases would get their rewards from the all mighty... we all should do that and show the strength of our faith in the One God and his final massenger...
:salam2:
thanks to the all mighty God for his blessings, may his peace and blessings be upon prophet mohamed (pbuhaf)
The verse you delivered was mentioned from the Quran, it's a true verse, but don't forget it's a part of the Quran, something the ignorants would always try to misinterpret...
Here's something for all the believers to hold on to, I also suggest that each one of us send this reply to the submission.org website to accertain them of the noble Quran...
Lord the all mighty also mentioned in the Surah of Al Qadr,
Tatanazzalul Malaa'ikatu walRoohu Feeha bi'idhni Rabbihim Min Kulli Amrin...
Angels and Spirits decend down by the permission of the AllMighty Lord in each order and command
And also when God's massengers came down to Abraham (pbuhaf) they had informed him that they were "Rusul" from the All Mighty Lord, and they were sent for his brother LOT against his people...
So, angels and spirits are massengers too, massengers of God... So, each year ever since the day of the revelation of the Quran upto the days of the judgement, we'll have angels descending for many purposes, especially those of the Qadr's night.
Then we turn to the descending of Angels at the dawns and Maghribs, looking for people repenting from their sins, for people praying from their lord for mercy and his blessings...
Brothers and sisters hold fast with your religion, people of suspect are people of little knowledge, they are the ignorants and our lord and his prophet have ordered us to beat the opponent of ignorance with knowledge, anyone who would first go and guide the people of the submission.org with these phrases would get their rewards from the all mighty... we all should do that and show the strength of our faith in the One God and his final massenger...
Assalamu Alaikum brother Brandon,
You posted the following in post #28 on this thread:
I respectfully disagree. In fact, what you're saying is a grave error.
There are many verses in the Qur'an that state the certain individuals were both Prophets and Messengers at the same time [peace be upon them all]:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 33:40]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 19:51]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 19:54]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 19:29-34]
At same time, Jesus Christ [peace beupon him] was also mentioned as a Messenger:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 61:6]
And as such, it is a grave error to say things like "What is a messenger? It's a person who carries a message, not stipulating that the information was divinely revealed or that the person understands the whole picture" and "Messengers are flawed people, capable of making mistakes and misinterpreting what information they carry".
The following is the religious opinion [fatwa] of Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid. It was his answer to question no. 5455 [What is the difference between a Prophet and a Messenger?]:
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=5455&ln=eng
The following is the religious opinion [fatwa] of Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak. It's his answer to question no. 11725 [The difference between a Messenger and a Prophet]:
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11725&ln=eng
And therefore, every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.
The following is the religious opinion [fatwa] posted on the website supervised by Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al- Munajjid. It's an answer to question no. 42216 [The infallibility of the Prophets]. Take special note of the words I colour red:
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=42216&ln=eng
You'll notice that the phrases "Prophets" and "Messengers" were both used in this context. Whether a Messenger [who's also a Prophet] or just a Prophet, they were all infallible in the sense mentioned in the above fatwa.
I hope you all the best brother Brandon,
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
You posted the following in post #28 on this thread:
I respectfully disagree. In fact, what you're saying is a grave error.
There are many verses in the Qur'an that state the certain individuals were both Prophets and Messengers at the same time [peace be upon them all]:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 33:40]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 19:51]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 19:54]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 19:29-34]
At same time, Jesus Christ [peace beupon him] was also mentioned as a Messenger:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 61:6]
And as such, it is a grave error to say things like "What is a messenger? It's a person who carries a message, not stipulating that the information was divinely revealed or that the person understands the whole picture" and "Messengers are flawed people, capable of making mistakes and misinterpreting what information they carry".
The following is the religious opinion [fatwa] of Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid. It was his answer to question no. 5455 [What is the difference between a Prophet and a Messenger?]:
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=5455&ln=eng
The following is the religious opinion [fatwa] of Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak. It's his answer to question no. 11725 [The difference between a Messenger and a Prophet]:
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11725&ln=eng
And therefore, every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.
The following is the religious opinion [fatwa] posted on the website supervised by Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al- Munajjid. It's an answer to question no. 42216 [The infallibility of the Prophets]. Take special note of the words I colour red:
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=42216&ln=eng
You'll notice that the phrases "Prophets" and "Messengers" were both used in this context. Whether a Messenger [who's also a Prophet] or just a Prophet, they were all infallible in the sense mentioned in the above fatwa.
I hope you all the best brother Brandon,
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
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