WILL SHE BURN!

muslimah2010

New Member
I watched this movie called An American Crime and in the story the main character Sylvia Likens. She was brutally tortured for weeks. Her babysitter did unimaginable things to her. She finally died at age sixteen of course she was a Christian but I was so saddened by her story that I wanted to find out if Allah would admit her into paradise. Even though she was not a Muslim. How was she supposed to learn about Islam if she was locked in a basement being tortured all day. I've heard from some people she might go to heaven because she didn't know better and from others I've heard you can't enter paradise unless you testify there is no god but Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is his messenger. Also if you live at the ends of the earth on a stranded island and you've never heard about Islam or any other Abrahamic religion for that matter, will you go to hell if you die a disbeliever.
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Question:
People born and raised in different environments and religions naturally develop different temperaments and identities. A person born in a Hindu family becomes a Hindu upon growing up. For him the Hindu religion is perfect. For such a person it is ingrained into his nature from his childhood that he is a Hindu first and last. Supposingly he receives the message of Islam. What are the chances that he will give up his religion, his identity and accept a new one. Isn't it tough for this person to become Muslim as compared to someone born a Muslim. It scares me to think that if I were born into some other faith than Islam where would I be today. So why is it not the law that everyone does have an equal opportunity to experience and accept Islam from the cradle. It this a matter of Allah's will, Sprituality (Hidayah) or Human Psychology. Please respond with references from Quran and hadith.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So set you (O Muhammad) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic Monotheism) Haneef (worship none but Allaah Alone). Allaah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allaah’s Islamic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq‑illaah (i.e. the religion of Allaah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not” [al-Room 30:30]

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon).

The correct view is that what is meant by fitrah is the religion of Islam, as stated in the hadeeth narrated by Muslim from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “Allaah said: ‘I created My slaves as haneefs (believers in pure monotheism), then the Shaytaan misled them from their religion; he forbade them what I had permitted to them and commanded them to associate others with Me for which I had not sent down any authority.’” What it means when it is said that a child is born as a Muslim is that he is born inherently ready, when he reaches the age of discretion, if he is given the choice between Islam and its opposite, to prefer Islam over its opposite and to choose Islam as his religion, so long as there is nothing to prevent him from doing so, such as his whims and desires or tribalism. Following his desires makes him prefer falsehood so that he may attain some share of leadership or wealth, and tribalism or racial pride makes him follow his forefathers or elders, even if they are not following true guidance. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nay! They say: ‘We found our fathers following a certain way and religion, and we guide ourselves by their footsteps’” [al-Zukhruf 43:23]

And Allaah tells us what the followers among the people of Hell will say (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they will say: ‘Our Lord! Verily, we obeyed our chiefs and our great ones, and they misled us from the (Right) Way’” [al-Ahzaab 33:67]

If every child is born in a state of fitrah, then obviously there will be some who will be influenced in ways that are in accordance with that fitrah and will strengthen it, such as those who are born to Muslim parents and grow up in a Muslim society. And there will be some whose fitrah is changed, such as those who are born to kaafir parents and group up among the kuffaar, be they Jews, Christians, Magians or mushrikeen. Undoubtedly the one who is born in Islam has means of guidance and happiness which are not available to others who are born and grow up in kaafir societies. Being given easy access to the means of faith and guidance is a blessing from Allaah which He gives to whomsoever He wills. It should also be noted that the person whose fitrah has been changed from Islam will not be punished for the sins of another; rather he will be punished if the call of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) reaches him and he does not accept it out of stubbornness, arrogance or tribalistic pride in the religion of his forefathers and countrymen, because proof is established against him when the call of the Messenger reaches him, and in such a case, if he persists in his kufr then he deserves to be punished. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)” [al-Israa’ 17:15]

What you say in your question, “It scares me to think…”, is correct and is wise, for it is the blessing of Allaah upon you that you were born in Islam. If you had been born into another religion, there would have been the fear that you might remain in that false religion, but when Allaah wills good for His slave, He makes it easy for him to have the means of guidance which will bring him from the religion of kufr to the religion of Islam. The entire matter is up to Allaah.

But when you say in your question, “So why is it not the law that…?” this is a false question caused by unawareness of the wisdom of Allaah and His ways of dealing with His creation. Of course it is impossible for the same opportunities to be available to all, because there are so many different human religions, and guidance to Islam happens when a person chooses to be guided, because Allaah has given man the ability to distinguish between truth and falsehood, between what is beneficial and what is harmful, by means of the reason that He has instilled in him, and the explanations with which He has sent His Messengers. At the same time, the will of the person is subject to the will of Allaah, for He is the One Who sends astray whomsoever He wills by His justice and wisdom, and He guides whomsoever He will by His grace and wisdom.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, this (the Qur’aan) is no less than a Reminder to (all) the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)

To whomsoever among you who wills to walk straight.

And you cannot will unless (it be) that Allaah wills the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”[al-Takweer 81:27-29]



Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak .

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11783&ln=eng&txt=christians%20going%20to%20hell

Salaam,

The bolding is mine. Basically we must remember that Allah swt is Just and Merciful. It is the person who is given the full truth and still rejects it that will be punished. I am familiar with the case you mentioned and she was an innocent child who died a horrible death. INshallah she will be lifted into paradise and shown the love of our Creator as reward for her strength and patience until her death.

Wasalaam

~Sarah
 

sha587

Shahid abdullah
Whar i heard is if the person died before before puberty age then he will be in jannah as a servent. I can not say exactly but what i read.

Allah know better and correctly.
 

Ghareebah

Bint Abdulkadir
The murder of Sylvia Likens


1965 torture slaying remains one of Indianapolis' most notorious crimes


File updated: June 2006

On Oct. 26, 1965, Indianapolis police were called to a rundown house on East New York Street where they found the body of 16-year-old Sylvia Likens on a bare mattress in an upstairs bedroom. The only adult resident of the house, Gertrude Baniszewski, told investigators she had been caring for Sylvia while her parents were out of town -- and that the teenager had been attacked by a gang of boys.

But a coroner's examination would show that Sylvia had been systematically beaten and malnourished for weeks. Her body was covered with sores, burns and bruises. She had been branded, and the words "I am a prostitute" were etched on her stomach.

Although Sylvia's injuries were horrific, the most shocking fact about the case was that the torture had gone on so long and had involved so many neighborhood children, who had joined in on the "punishing" of Sylvia. Neighbors had heard strange noises and visitors to the Baniszewski home had seen at least some of Sylvia's injuries.


How it began:

Sylvia's ordeal began in July 1965 when her parents, Lester and Betty Likens, offered Baniszewski $20 a week to care for their two daughters while they traveled with a carnival operating a concession stand. Baniszewski agreed to board 16-year old Sylvia and 15-year old Jenny.

Lester Likens said his girls needed some discipline and encouraged Baniszewski to "straighten them out."

Gertrude Baniszewski was a haggard, underweight asthmatic who had endured several failed marriages, 13 pregnancies and six miscarriages in her 37 years. She had seven children living in the house. The eldest, Paula, 17, was unmarried and pregnant. The youngest was an infant.

The Baniszewski home at 3850 E. New York St., later described by attorneys as a "cesspool" was also the hangout of other neighborhood children, who called her "Gerty".

No one has been able to explain how Sylvia became the object of torture that summer. The punishment started with "whippings" with a fraternity-style wooden paddle for both Likens girls, as they lay naked across a mattress.

The girls were beaten for exchanging soft drink bottles for change at a nearby grocery. Gertrude's resentment toward the girls began to focus on Sylvia alone. She was the outspoken one. Jenny was small and frail because of a childhood bout with polio. Sylvia was beaten for eating too much at a church dinner and kicked in the genitals after admitting she had a boyfriend in California.

Neighborhood children began to crowd the home to participate in the torture. The children took turns practicing their judo on Sylvia, hurling her against a wall. Some began kicking and beating her. Others extinguished their cigarettes on her skin. As Gertrude and a gang of teen-agers watched, Sylvia was forced to undress in the living room and insert an empty Coke bottle into her vagina.

After the beatings, Sylvia was forced into a scalding hot bath so she would be "cleansed of her sins." She was severely beaten and burned for wetting her mattress while asleep and Gertrude decided that Sylvia was no longer fit to live with her children.

Near the end, Sylvia was no longer permitted to leave the house. She was thrown down the cellar stairs and locked in, given crackers for food and refused the right to use a bathroom. Gertrude Baniszewski announced to her children that Sylvia was a "prostitute, and she's proud of it; so we'll just put it on her stomach." She took a large needle and began to carve the words "I'm a prostitute and proud of it!" into Sylvia's stomach. Richard Hobbs, a neighbor boy, finished the etching.

When Baniszewski realized Sylvia might be dying, she forced her to write a note saying a gang of boys beat her. The plan was to blindfold her and dump her in nearby woods with the note. Sylvia tried to escape but Gertrude and one of the boys stopped her, beating her again and throwing her back into the basement.

Sylvia Likens died Oct. 26, 1965. Cause of death was determined to be brain swelling, internal hemorrhaging of the brain and shock induced by Sylvia's extensive skin damage. Sylvia also suffered from extreme malnutrition. She was buried at Oak Hill Cemetery in Lebanon.


The Baniszewski trial - May 1966

At her trial the following year, Baniszewski denied any knowledge of the torture, claiming the children must have done it all. She entered pleas of not guilty and not guilty by reason of insanity.

On May 19, 1966, a jury found Baniszewski guilty of first-degree murder while Paula Baniszewski was found guilty of second-degree murder. Hobbs, along with Baniszewski's son John and another neighborhood boy, Coy Hubbard, were convicted of manslaughter. Gertrude and Paula Baniszewski were sentenced to life terms at the Indiana Women's Prison in Indianapolis. The boys were sentenced to two-to-21-year terms at the Indiana State Reformatory in Pendleton.

In 1971, the Indiana Supreme Court granted Gertrude and Paula Baniszewski a new trial due to "prejudicial atmosphere", but Gertrude was again convicted of first-degree murder on Aug. 5, 1971. Paula pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter and served about two years in prison. The three boys were released on parole for good behavior in 1968, after serving about two years each of their sentences.

In September 1985, Gertrude Baniszewski was released on parole. She changed her name to Nadine Van Fossan and moved to Iowa where she lived in obscurity until her death from lung cancer on June 16, 1990. Paula married and moved to a farm in Iowa. John became a lay minister in Texas and counseled children of divorced parents. Hobbs died of cancer at the age of 21, four years after being released from the reformatory. Hubbard has had several brushes with the law. Lester and Betty Likens divorced. Betty remarried and died in 1998 at age 71. Jenny Likens Wade died in 2004 at age 54.
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Esselamu aleikum we rahmetullahi we barakatuh!

Can you please, mention the stuffs the baby sitter did to the child, what kind of torture, in what way she was tortured, how long and so on... please provide with details about the torture and how it was done

Wassalam

Salaam,

What relevance does this have to the question? Why does it matter how long she was tortured and the details surrounding it?
 

abubaseer

tanzil.info
Staff member
As Salaam Alaykum,

I heard in Bilal Phillips talk that Allah doesn't punish people who never received the message of Islaam.

So, they will be tested in the hereafter by Allah. And how they fare in the test will determine what will be their final destination. Hell or heaven.

May be someone point to the video ???
 

sky_012

Junior Member
sorry to say that, but we don't need long proofs or texts to think, people, think logically, Allah SWT is not only your creator and your Lord, He is the Creator of every creature in the universe; and we as humans don't have te right at all to say o this person will go to hell because of this and that, who are we to judge, this is a very bad thing, and to try to resolve the mystery about who can be allowed to go to jannah, only Allah can decide, and we should pray that more and more people go to jannah,
i don't like when people say, o we muslims we will go to jannah at the end all the others in hell forever
a ayat in quran also pointed out these type of people who say hell and fire will only touch us for a limted time and finally we will go to jannah because we beleive, no, only Allah have the right to decide

there is no age limit, religion, or anything criteria settled by people themselves, Allah perhaps will forgive people who have done more bad things than you in life and don't forgive you,

so fear Allah, and don't try to debate or judge others, just based on some criterias set by you, no one has the right to talk about this,

and even if they are non muslims, just thinking how hard life is in hell, would you really want to see people going there? except if you are cruel
 

muharram23

New Member
Staff member
salamu alaykum

We can not make a duah for someone that we do not know if they died in a state of islaam or disbelief. If it was permitted, then it would be permitted for Resullullah :saw: to make duah for his uncle abu talib and his parents, but he was not permitted. If they are alive, then you make duah that ALlah guides them to islaam. However, if they are dead, then you do not make duah. Do you know that most scholars say that if a kid from disbeliever parents dies, you do not pray janazah to them nor do you burry them with muslims. Instead, they are to be burried with the disbelievers. But then ALlah sva will raise them and judge them in the akhira. As for the kids of muslims, even if they die before pubirty, we can choose to pray or not janazah for them and also they will be in jannah without trial.

Allah knows best
wasalam
 

sky_012

Junior Member
Well,
I myself would like to read it to know the blessing were in.

i don't understand what you meant please, can you explain me, because my english is weak

anyway, about the sentence you quoted, i stay firm on what i've said, that we don't have the right to decide, it's Allah SWT who decide

and it actually shocked me how a brother asked precisons about the torture, like a judge to decide and solve a case

sorry again, because i don't want to appear as harsh
 

safiya58

Junior Member
sorry to say that, but we don't need long proofs or texts to think, people, think logically, Allah SWT is not only your creator and your Lord, He is the Creator of every creature in the universe; and we as humans don't have te right at all to say o this person will go to hell because of this and that, who are we to judge, this is a very bad thing, and to try to resolve the mystery about who can be allowed to go to jannah, only Allah can decide, and we should pray that more and more people go to jannah,
i don't like when people say, o we muslims we will go to jannah at the end all the others in hell forever
a ayat in quran also pointed out these type of people who say hell and fire will only touch us for a limted time and finally we will go to jannah because we beleive, no, only Allah have the right to decide

there is no age limit, religion, or anything criteria settled by people themselves, Allah perhaps will forgive people who have done more bad things than you in life and don't forgive you,

so fear Allah, and don't try to debate or judge others, just based on some criterias set by you, no one has the right to talk about this,

and even if they are non muslims, just thinking how hard life is in hell, would you really want to see people going there? except if you are cruel


Salam to all, sister u r totally right. I think same like you do. I´m also saddened by this storry but remember: she is not our relative or friend or even someone we know just like that and we still feel sorry for her, this is a feeling wich we got from Allah. All good thinks we got r from Allah and all bad from ourself. She is nothing from us but from Allah she is the creation and if we have mercy and feel sorry for her Allah has of course much much much more mercy than any of us we can not even compare it... Who is more Zalim the the one who is questioning Allahs mercy....? inshaalah Allah will forgive her and the pain she go through will inshaallah be a compensation to her sins... Allah Knows better...!

vesselam
 

bloup1000

Junior Member
oh hard question

i think alah knows best and any way what really matters is that if she really liked to be tought islam or if they made her read the quran did she really mean itmmm

salam
 

D'Anne

New Member
Hi, new person here, have a reply to this Will she burn in hell thing cause she is not a Muslim.

Ok, I could come on here and rant and rave but I won't.

You would think in this day and age yes folks its 2008 that you people would be educated enough to realize that there are a whole other world out there other than the Middle East. And guess what we seemed to have evolved alot quicker than you have. So... on this... please note you are not the only culture out there and you being a Muslim isn't the end all be all of being human. Being Human is:
1. not killing one another over religion
2. Understanding diferences between peoples and accepting new Ideas
3. Loving your neighbour without beheading them cause they looked at your wife.

Geeze come on!!!!! I am open to religion and honestly anybodies religion but when there is violence associated with it, to be honest not interested. Most Westerners believe the same as me, hense why there is so much resistence with your culture I can only assume.

Lets be peaceful and mindful of other cultures.

Sylvia Likens is in heaven!! God or Muhammed Loves everyone!!! There is not a difference between anybodies religion. They are all the same once we pass on!

So killing animals on a religious day is only Cruel to Animals and they don't deserve to die that way! but again, I am making comments to people who are clearly uneducated about the world around them.
 
Hi, new person here, have a reply to this Will she burn in hell thing cause she is not a Muslim.

Ok, I could come on here and rant and rave but I won't.

You would think in this day and age yes folks its 2008 that you people would be educated enough to realize that there are a whole other world out there other than the Middle East. And guess what we seemed to have evolved alot quicker than you have. So... on this... please note you are not the only culture out there and you being a Muslim isn't the end all be all of being human. Being Human is:
1. not killing one another over religion
2. Understanding diferences between peoples and accepting new Ideas
3. Loving your neighbour without beheading them cause they looked at your wife.

Geeze come on!!!!! I am open to religion and honestly anybodies religion but when there is violence associated with it, to be honest not interested. Most Westerners believe the same as me, hense why there is so much resistence with your culture I can only assume.

Lets be peaceful and mindful of other cultures.

Sylvia Likens is in heaven!! God or Muhammed Loves everyone!!! There is not a difference between anybodies religion. They are all the same once we pass on!

So killing animals on a religious day is only Cruel to Animals and they don't deserve to die that way! but again, I am making comments to people who are clearly uneducated about the world around them.

i jz dont get how come u get to b the judge of who goes to heaven or hell??.........no1 can decide that but Allah (swt) ant Allah (swt) is most just as we all know.....

killing animals on a religious day??....plz read dear madam b4 u post there is a whole story bhind this.....

and the weirdest thing u said there is no difference in religion??.....ur saying that 1+1 =1 , 1+1 =2 and 1+1=3 ..............

ull have to read to understand madam

:hearts::hearts:
 

D'Anne

New Member
i jz dont get how come u get to b the judge of who goes to heaven or hell??.........no1 can decide that but Allah (swt) ant Allah (swt) is most just as we all know.....

killing animals on a religious day??....plz read dear madam b4 u post there is a whole story bhind this.....

and the weirdest thing u said there is no difference in religion??.....ur saying that 1+1 =1 , 1+1 =2 and 1+1=3 ..............

ull have to read to understand madam

:hearts::hearts:

Hi there,

Read my statement again, apparently there is a language barrier there, cause I am not saying I am being the judge who goes to heaven or not!! But it sure seems like you are. You said I would have to read to understand.... but it seems to me in the middle east you guys are not reading at all, with all the guns and violence you are about.

All we are saying is PEACE MAN!!!! RELAX !!!!!
 

Ghareebah

Bint Abdulkadir
Hi there,

Read my statement again, apparently there is a language barrier there, cause I am not saying I am being the judge who goes to heaven or not!! But it sure seems like you are. You said I would have to read to understand.... but it seems to me in the middle east you guys are not reading at all, with all the guns and violence you are about.

All we are saying is PEACE MAN!!!! RELAX !!!!!

excuse me NOT ALL muslims are middle eastern....and why are you mentioning guns and vioelence... guns and violence is not the culture of the middle east...just the places where uncle sam has invaded i.e iraq and Afghanistan... but can you blame them for defending themselves... i would suggest you open your mind and think before you speak....and this thread is about that poor girl...can we stay clear middle east poltics before i decide to tell the mods to ban you

sorry if i sound rude... but i cant stand people who get pesonal about things
 

D'Anne

New Member
excuse me NOT ALL muslims are middle eastern....and why are you mentioning guns and vioelence... guns and violence is not the culture of the middle east...just the places where uncle sam has invaded i.e iraq and Afghanistan... but can you blame them for defending themselves... i would suggest you open your mind and think before you speak....and this thread is about that poor girl...can we stay clear middle east poltics before i decide to tell the mods to ban you

sorry if i sound rude... but i cant stand people who get pesonal about things



Peace man Peace, and you are rude, but its ok... all of you are
 
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