Islamic Sects(Discussion)

mfarooq-khan

New Member
Asalam-w-Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

I live in pakistan and lahore, in pakistan we have sects (sunni dewbandi, Sunni brelvi, Sunni wahabi, Shia, Qadiani, Ismaili) etc. These are the ones that i know. I want to learn about all these different sects and there faith. but lets start with Shia.

Are Shia muslims, and how much scholars agree on this?
If Shia are muslims, then there behaviour towards Sahaba (RAA) can be considered, and there allegatation on Aisha Sadiqa (May allah be pleased with her)?

There Kalma(creed) is changed!

Prostitution in Shia is allowed named as muta!

Your views on Shia
thanks
 

A Kashmiri

Junior Member
Brother .... Salam Alaikum.

There is a section on this subject- Article section on this website , you can go there and read to understand.

After reading all thos articles if you further need any information you can ask a question ...

Masallama
 

cmelbouzaidi

Junior Member
Assalamu alaikom. Dear sister Saniyah, thank you. Jazak Allahu Khair, I just read the link to sufism and it was interesting. I have found myself guilty a couple of times of posting things from websites that people come back and tell me are sufi and so I was wondering about sufism. I am happy, Alhamdulillah, just to call myself Muslim, and I am a revert. I know a little about Shia and know it is not for me but I did wonder why I am finding myself on Sufi websites without even realizing that they are sufi.....
 

island muslim

Junior Member
Brother .... Salam Alaikum.

There is a section on this subject- Article section on this website , you can go there and read to understand.

After reading all thos articles if you further need any information you can ask a question ...

Masallama

good advice brother.

Also a request tot he mods to remove this thread from the quran downloads section and place it somehwere more appropriate. I think everyone would find a neat and orderly website more easy to use.
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
well most scholars agree that shia are not considered to Muslims in the General sence but we can't make takfir on the individual shia because most shia in the world are ignorant of their own religion, but all of them agree that the shia scholars and leaders are kuffar because they teach the shia creed to people and spread it.

as for qadiani and Ishmailes they are not Muslims they believe there was another prophet after prophet Muhammad. they have their own belief system seperate from Islam.

deobandies and berveli are both deviant sects which are higly influnced by sufism and Hindu belief. they worship graves and saints, and much of their reliigon is centered upon bidah(Innovation), but they are muslims but deviant muslims.

and there is no such thing called "wahabi" this is a term which the innovators of the religion and the shia call people who are following Islam according to the original teachings of the Prophet and his companions. http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/salafism.htm
 

*Saniyah*

ukhtikum fillaah
this sites are Garbage , why arent there anything about wahhabis ? because this is a wahhabi site..


:(

You will never find a group of people calling themselves "wahhabi". But sufi will say he's sufi, shia will say he's shia(unless he's using taqiyah), ahmady will say he's ahmady etc. That what you call "garbage" contains quotes from the famous Islamic scholars of our Ummah past and present.
Also I would like to advise you not to use that term as Al-Wahhab is one of the 99 names of Allaah and you are mocking it. Hopefully unintentionally.


@cmelbouzaidi
Wa aleykum salaam.:)wa iyyaki. You are most welcome.
 

muhammadin

Junior Member
honestly... im just fade up of reading n toking n listening abt this sec issue

im surprised how muslims hate each other on the name of diff secs. its just disgusting.

i was really happy till i dint know anything about diff secs n stuff. but i had to wen i got married as my husband is from diff sec. Alhamdulillah, we dont have any prb as we just follow Quran n sunnah. but managing wid both families is really irritating sometimes.

i wud advice u that dont go in Details. Because the more u know, the more u will start disliking other muslims. its not going to help u any ways n neither u can bring anyone of them on track. at the end of the day, u will feel so sad that how we muslims have part the best and only true religion of this world

may Allah SWT guide us all
 

MOSABJA

Junior Member
Just one thing be Muslims Follow Quran and the Sunnah only and Inshallah every thing will be right .Dont Believe in sects.

if some one says to me which sect do you follow? I would say NONE.

As far as sects in pakistan are concerned.

In all of the no Arab world I mean Indonesia,malaysia,Cent asia,Afghanistan,Subcontinent,Africa.

There are two Major ideologies.When is closer to Saudi brand which is salafism.
Other is closer to local sufi tradtions.

Some people think that it is only characteristic of Subcontinent how ever it is present in all NON ARAB world.In pakistan there are

SHIAS
I dont need to explain them .You all know them
Barelvi:
these are innovators .they believe that prophet(SA) is Present every where and say that Prophet(SA) is NOOR(light) rather a human being.
Ahl e hadith:
These are the same as salafis.Its Urdu name of salafism .They are also called wahabbis.
Deobandis:
They also follow the salafi ideology .They reject Barelvi thought.But the difference b/w them and salafis is that they follow Hanafi school of thought.While salafis dont Completely follow any of four Imams.

So the only difference you would see b/w salafis and deobandis is not of AQEEDAH.but only on minor issues like raising hands in prayers(rafayadain),issue of divorces e.t.c

Some times they are closely aligned with Salafis.All of their madressahs are funded by saudi salafis.


IN MY HUMBLE OPINION(though I might be wrong) I dont follow any of these but I consider the FIRST TWO AS DEVIANTS.
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
muhammadin, no one is hating each other, we are seperating the truth from the falsehood, and what is Islam and what is Not Islam tell me do you think these actions are from Islam ?

Berelvi
[yt]8FI_7EGKo1s[/yt]
[yt]8Z8euoAf_qU[/yt]

Shia
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shia worshipping statue of Imam Hussien
[yt]20bYAKYSHJw&feature=related[/yt]
[yt]CoI6A6ROxXQ&feature=related[/yt]
[yt]gdQ3gjII2mQ[/yt]

Sufies
[yt]u3ogVxHVXXw&feature=related[/yt]
in the Masjid
[yt]7aeoiLAosdA&feature=related[/yt]
Sufi Ceremony
[yt]DfBPR-6gjFA&feature=related[/yt]
Doing the Worm and Celebrating the Mawlid
[yt]8MR-6cR3rA8&feature=related[/yt]


So Akhi or Ukti, can you please tell me after seeing all those videos, Is this Islam? Did the Prophet ever do any of this? Did the Companions Practise any of these things? Please I'm waiting for an Answer wa 3laikum as-Salaam
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
There are two Major ideologies.When is closer to Saudi brand which is salafism.
Ahl e hadith:
These are the same as salafis.Its Urdu name of salafism .They are also called wahabbis.
Deobandis:
They also follow the salafi ideology .They reject Barelvi thought.But the difference b/w them and salafis is that they follow Hanafi school of thought.While salafis dont Completely follow any of four Imams.

.

???????:confused: Where did you get this from? there is no such thing called "Saudi" Branch of "Salafism", there is no such thing called Salafism.

Its very funny that you said Deobandies Follow Salafi Ideology when almost all of the Salafi Scholars have warned people from the likes of the Deobandies, who are deviant grave worshippers and Innovatars, so how you come to the conclusion that Deobandies are from Ahlul Sunah:confused: They have a whole city in Afghanistan Dedicated to grave worshipping called Mazar Al-Shareef, and we don't promote these evil deobandies or anyone who supports them.
 

MOSABJA

Junior Member
salafist view of sufis

regarding Sufis I just follow the opinion of sheikh ibn tammiyaah and Muhammad bin Abdul wahhab.That the true sufis who dont do any Bidah are closer to Allah.But people who associate themselves with sufis and do Bidahs are wrong.Sufism as a practice is not wrong .




What Ibn Taymiyya Says About the Term `Tasawwuf' And now permit us to mention what Imam Ibn Taymiyya, (ra) mentioned about the definition of Tasawwuf. "Alhamdulillah, the pronunciation of the word tasawwuf has been thoroughly discussed. From those who spoke
about it were not just the the Imams and Shaikhs, but also included were Ahmad bin Hanbal, Abi Sulayman ad-Daarani, As-Sirr as-Saqati, al-Junayd, M'aruf al-Karkhi, Abdul Qadir Jilani, Bayazid
al-Bistami and many others. This is a term that was given to those who were dealing with that kind of science [tazkiyyat an-nafs and Ihsan]. And it is like when one uses the term "from the Quraishi family" or from the Madani people or from the Hashemi family. It
is a lineage (nasab), just as we say Hashemi for the descendants of the Prophet (s) or Quraishi for his tribe and Madani for those of his city, we say Sufi (/i>nisbatan) indicating the relationship of those people to that science."

He continues, "the majority of the scholars (jumhour al-'ulama), did not deny that science since it complies with the shari'ah and the Sunnah and they were supporting it." Imam Ibn Taymiyya says: '" "Tasawwuf has realities and states of experience which they talk about in their science. Some of it is that the Sufi is that one who purifies himself from anyting whihc distracts him from the
remembrance of Allah and who will be so filled up with knowledge of the heart and knowledge of the mind to the point that the value of gold and stones will be the same.to him
. And tasawwuf is safeguarding the precious meanings and leaving behind the call to fame and vanity in order to reach the state of Truthfulness, because the best of humans after the prophets are the Siddiqeen, as Allah mentioned them in the verse: 'FA-ULA'IKA MA'A ALLADHEENA AN'AAM-ALLAHU 'ALAYHIM MIN AN-NABIYYIN WAS-SIDDIQEEN WASH-SHUHADAI' WAS-SAALIHEENA WA HASSUNA 'ULA'IKA RAFEEQA' (an-Nisa', 69,70)

'(And all who obey God and the Apostle) are in the company of those on whom is the grace of Allah: of the prophets, the sincere lovers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous; Ah! what a beautiful
fellowship.'" Ibn Taymiyya continues: "as-Sufi hua fil-haqiqa naw'un
min as-siddiqeen. Fahua as-siddiq alladhee ikhtassa bil-zuhadiwal-'ibada." This translates: "And the Sufi is in reality a kind of Siddiq (Truthful One), that Siddiq who specialized in zuhd and
worship."

Ibn Taymiyya continues, "some people criticised Sufiyya and Tasawwuf and they said they were innovators, out of the Sunnah, but the truth is they are striving in Allah's obedience[ mujtahidin fi ta'at-illahi], as others of Allah's People strove in Allah's obedience. So from them you will find the Foremost in Nearness by virtue of his striving [as-saabiq ul-muqarrab bi hasab ijtihadihi]. And some
of them are from the People of the Right hand [Ahl al-Yameen mentioned in Qur'an in Sura Waqi'ah], but slower in their progress. For both kinds, they might make ijtihad and in that case they might be correct and they might be wrong. And from both types, some of
them might make a sin and repent. And this is the origin of tasawwuf. And after that origin, it has been spread and (tasha'abat wa tanawa'at) has its main line and its branches. And it has become three kinds:

1. Sufiyyat il-Haqa'iq - the True Sufis
2. Sufiyyat il-Arzaaq - the Professional Sufis
(those who use Sufism for personal gain)
3. Sufiyyat il-Rasm - the Caricature Sufis. (Sufi by
appearance only). "

'Abdullah bin Muhammad bin 'Abdul Wahhab On Tasawwuf Here we would like to quote for you from his eminence Mohammed Manzour Nu'mani in his letter, page 85, from his book "Ad-Dia'aat Mukathaffa Di'd ash-Shaikh Muhammad bin 'Abdal Wahhab" where he says: Shaikh
Abdullah, the son of shaikh Muhammad bin 'Abdul Wahhab, said about Tasawwuf: "laa nunkiru at-tariqat as-sufiyyata..." "My father and I, we don't deny or criticise the Science of Sufism, but on the
contrary we support it becasue it cleans the external and the internal of the hidden sins which are related to the heart and the veins and the outward form, even though the individual might externally be on the right way, but internally he might be on the wrong way. And that is why tasawwuf is necessary. But we don't expect and we don't like to see some of those using the name of Tasawwuf speak from a state of unconsciousness
."

But please dont follow the Modern day Sufis and the people who associate themselves with it they are all innovators
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum.

Some would mention tasawwuf/soofeeyah to mean zuhd, raqaa'iq/tazkiyah and the likes. Of course, these characteristics are important for a Muslim to have, but there isn't any need to call sufism, especially when that causes confusion (people cannot then discern from the "soofeeyah" that is in line with Islaam and the many innovative soofees that are rampant today!)...

Akhi I read a similar fatwa from Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullaah, if not I read that one also. But similarly to the categories you mentioned, he said that some of them are from the sunnah, some of them from ahl ul-bid`ah (those who get into states of unconsciousness, utter evil, innovate matters of worship), and some of them from the kuffaar (such as Ibn `Arabi (not the Maliki faqeeh). From another forum,

Ibn Taymiyah applies this principle of judicious criticism to sufi ideas, practices and personalities.
He divides the sufis into three categories:

In the first category of sufis whom he calls mashaikh al-Islam, mashaikh al-Kitab wa al-Sunnah and a'immat al-huda, [Majmu'at al-Rasa'il wa al-Masa'il, vol. 1, p. 179, and Majmu Fatawa Shaykh al-Islam, vol. 10, pp. 516-7 and vol. 11, p. 233] he mentions Fudayl b. Iyad, Ibrahim b. Adham, Shaqiq al-Balkhi, Abu Sulayman al-Darani, Maruf al-Karkhi, Bishr ëa-Hafi, Sari al-Saqati, al-Junayd b. Muhammad, Sahl b. Abd Allah al-Tustari and Amr b. Uthman al-Makki.
Later sufis whom he places in this category are: Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani, Shaykh Hammad al-Dabbas, and Shaykh Abu al-Bayan. These sufis, Ibn Taymiyah says, were never intoxicated, did not lose their sense of discrimination, or said or did anything against the Quran and the Sunnah. Their lives and experiences conformed with the Shariah (mustaqim al-ahwal) [Majmu Fatawa Shaykh al-Islam, vol. 10, pp. 516-7].

The second category consists of those sufis whose experience of fana and intoxication (sukr) weakened their sense of discrimination, and made them utter words that they later realized to be erroneous when they became sober [Majmu Fatawa Shaykh ël-Islam, vol. 10, pp. 220-1]. Some of them also did things [Majmu Fatawa Shaykh ël-Islam, vol. 10, pp. 382, 557] under intoxication of which the Shariah does not approve, but sooner or later they became sober and lived well. In this category Ibn Taymiyah mentions the names of Abu Yazid al-Bostami, Abu al-Husayn al-Nuri and Abu Bakr al-Shibli. But he condemns what they said or did in that state and offers apology for them on the ground that they were intoxicated (sukran), and had lost control over reason. [Majmu'at ël-Rasa'il wa ël-Masa'il, vol. 1, p. 168; Majmu Fatawa Shaykh ël-Islam, vol. 10, pp. 382, 557].
His criticism is directed to the third category of sufis who have believed in ideas and expounded doctrines which contradict Islamic principles [ wihdatul woojood and Al-hulool {incarnation}, or who have indulged in practices which are condemned by the Shariah.

The first sufi in this group is al-Hallaj [ the aquidah of God incarnate similar to all mushriks] [Majmu'at ël-Rasa'il wa ël-Masa'il, vol. 1, pp. 81, 83; Majmu Fatawa Shaykh ël-Islam, vol. 11, p. 18]. . . . Next to al-Hallaj the apostate, the sufis who draw strong criticism from Ibn Taymiyah are the ones who expound the doctrine of One Being or unity with God (wahdat al-wujud), such as Ibn ël-Arabi, Sadr ël-Din ël-Qunawi, Ibn Sab'in and Tilimsani. . . . . The apostate Ibn ël-Arabi, who is the central figure in this context (of wahdat ël-wujud ), Ibn Taymiyah subjects him to detailed criticism.
Ibn Taymiyah does not object to intensification of some approved forms of dhikr, or reliance on some methods for purifying the soul, with the neglect of others, provided it is within the limits of the Shariah [Majmu'at ël-Rasa'il wa ël-Masa'il, vol. 4, pp. 86-87].

It is worthwhile to note that Al-Hallaj was executed in Baghdad in 922 for saying "Ana al-Haqq" ("I am the Truth," i.e., God), and his former teacher, al-Junayd, was among those who gave the verdict that he should die. [See Abu Abd al-Rahman al-Sulami, in Tabakat al-Sufiyya, Edited by Nur al-Din Shariba, Maktaba al-Khanji, Cairo, 1986, pp. 307-8, for details.]

The third category of Sufis which includes two sub-categories, regardless of their tareeqah, worship others than Allaah, such as Prophets and “awliya’” [“saints”], living or dead. They say, “Yaa Jeelaani”, “Yaa Rifaa’i” [calling on their awliya’], or “O Messenger of Allaah, help and save” or “O Messenger of Allaah, our dependence is on you”, etc.
Also, they believe in wahdat al-wujood (unity of existence). They do not have the idea of a Creator and His creation, instead they say that everything is creation and everything is God [ Hinduism, pantheism, etc].

They unscrupulously claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They say, “Haddathani qalbi ‘an Rabbi (My heart told me from my Lord).”

so the term mutassawuf or commonly known to the english world as "sufi" has quite a broad meaning. And due to ahlu-sunnah who are real or actual salafees, understanding and knowing this reality, then when ahlu-sunnah partakes in refutation of sufis, it is directed at times to the second category of sufis and most of these rududd fall in the thrid category, and not the first, However to expound on this issue and little more, the problem in our times, and for quite a while, is that most of the world that ascribe to tassawuf usually find no fault or partake in the practices either in part or in full with the tenents that are inherent in the third category of tassawuf that Haafidh Ibn Taymiyyah described.
 

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
:salam2:

I agree with bro Mosabja and I too look at Sufism as Imam Ibn Taymiyyah (RA) and Shaykh Ibn Abdul Wahhab (RA) did. This view though accepts Sufism yet criticises its wrong doings and this way we can differentiate between good and bad ones amongst a group but when we label Sufism as totally evil or reject it as a whole then what happens is that many who have good enough reasons to stick to the good aspects of sufism see us as against those good things too.
So I will stick to the advice of the great Shaykhs i.e. Imam Ibn Taymiyyah and Imam Ibn Abdul Wahhab (RA) and will keep them (Sufis) in their respective categories.

1. Sufiyyat il-Haqa'iq - the True Sufis
2. Sufiyyat il-Arzaaq - the Professional Sufis
(those who use Sufism for personal gain)
3. Sufiyyat il-Rasm - the Caricature Sufis. (Sufi by
appearance only).
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
From ibn Abbas radhiyallahu 'anhu that Rasulullah been allowing Mut'ah then forbade it, then he allowed it again then he forbade that again, then allowed it again and then he forbade it until the Day of Resurrection.

It was allowed only because they were at war, far away from their wifes and apart from them for months.

And what Rasulullah forbade, Allah forbade it too.

:salam2:

This kind of marriage was permitted during the year of the Conquest of Makkah for three days, then it was disallowed and prohibited until the Day of Resurrection. This was reported by Muslim (1406).

:salam2:
 
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