Assalamu alaykum brothers and sisters....
For the sun and the moon issue brother BigAk answered very well.
You have to realize that all translations of the Qur'aan are just translations, it is not something set in stone. Some meanings of the Qur'aan are different in context, some different by just one slight change in form etc. It's not something you can class next to english because it's a completely different category! I mean I dont know Arabic very well yet and even attempting to learn it, you have to take in differences in both languages. I mean like in Arabic most words have tri-consonantal roots. These roots then can form different root words you could say, and each of these words, though from the same root may have different meanings, then from each of these separate root words just changes in structure could change the function of the word and its meaning as well. I'm not going to try to go into those things anyways, as my Arab brothers can explain better.... I hope you re-read the post below:
Al Salam alaikum brother Ivan.
I am not sure what sites you're visiting or referring to... But, being an arab myself, when I read the revse in Sura 10:5, I find the arabic language reflecting accurately. Here goes:
"Huwa' lathee ja'ala' shamsa DIA'A"
"It is He who made the sun to be a SHINING GLORY" (Yusuf Ali translation)
The word Dia'a does not mean a lamp in the arabic language, and if your site translates it as so, they are wrong. I grew up in Damascus knowing the word Dia'a, and the word Lamp never crossed my mind. Because it's not what it means. A lamp in arabic is "Siraj." The word used here is "Dia'a" which may have a few meanings in arabic. The general meaning is "A light of its own self." When in context of the sun, it means "An Object that shines light of its own." In arabic "Ta'dee'u min tilqa'i thatiha".
The other meaning of Dia'a that comes to my mind; I had a friend in my childhood whose name was Dia'a. In this context, it means this guy was a knlowedgable person who leads humanity via the light of his own wisdom and knowledge (not acquired knowledge but it is that of his own wisdom). If his name was thought of as a "lamp", this poor child would have never escaped the everlasting harrasment of the other kids in school.. :lol:
As far as the rest of the verse.. It goes on:
"Wal Qamara NOORAN"
"And the moon to be a LIGHT"
The word NOORAN here is the same as NOOR. The AN is added at the end due to correct arabic grammer which I will surely not confuse you with here. lol
But, Noor in arabic means "light" or stream of light. When you contrast it with what has already been said in the prior sentence just before it (shamsa DIA'A), it is clear that the moon is merely reflecting what the sun is producing. It is common sense that when you strike a match in a dark room; the "Dia'a" emmitted from the tip of the match will travel around hitting the walls and objects in the room; hence relecting light from these objects that are borrowing the original dia'a from the match.
.
Those are from the actual text, which reads:
هُوَ الَّذِي جَعَلَ الشَّمْسَ ضِيَاء وَالْقَمَرَ نُورًا
Therefore in light of the actual text, translations are pretty pointless, as they are liable to mistakes and arent actually the Qur'aan - just attempts at "translating". The reason the Qur'aan was sent in the Arabic language is because it is so eloquent with so very many expressions and ways of explaining things in just one word.
Furthermore, like the brother said, Diyaa'a has meanings of radiant, bright, white light, that which is original and not a reflection, but rather belongs to the object itself, while here Noor is in reference to a reflection and not an original source of light.
Again translations do not suffice, in the one I have they say, "He is the one Who gave the sun its brightness and the moon its light..."
In another: "It is He who made the sun a shining light and the moon a derived light and determined for it phases"
What gives priority to the translations you use over these? In fact, the ones being used by you at present are not claimed to be good ones at all. If the best can be said it is the Mohsin Khan one or Sahih International I think:
http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=120
Anyway, I am thrilled that you speak/write Arabic! I am hoping that you can help me. (I find it VERY odd that the GOD of the Universe is limited to one language & one that has so many language difficulties.)
I just wanted to say to this that... if you actually study real Arabic, you'll come to see it's not language difficulties, but rather it's the most perfect language. When you or I write, if we were to write in chat speak and say lyk evrythin we wanted 2 dis way, den it wudnt luk gud at all. People wouldnt take us seriously would they? If you turned in a paper like that, let me say now you might want to keep your hopes low for getting high grades. As we even as Humans in order to express ourselves in the best way must use correct and good language, in the same way, words revealed from Allah are would be even more so in the most concise, beautiful and best language, which cannot be fulfilled in any other language except Arabic. I mean even one word, has so much to it. Say Siraat - translated as path/way
Siraat (صراط) is from saad-ra-ta (ص-ر-ط) and it means path. The root saad-ra-ta, sarata, means to walk quickly. Siraat is that which the act of sarata is done: a path where one walks.
There are many words in the Qur’an that are used for path, such as siraat, sabeel, tareeq…but why is it different?
* Siraat is used for a path that is wide enough for everyone to walk on.
* Siraat is a path that goes straight to the destination.
* Siraat is a path that is smooth, with no ups or downs, bumps or hills, but a path where one can see completely straight.
And each of the other words also have separate meanings.
I do find Sura 5:101-102 disturbing because it indicates that we should not ask questions. "Oh ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you...Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." But we also know...truth stands out from error!
Again translations do not suffice, there is more to grammar and tafseer (explanation/commentary of the verse) as the Qur'aan came down in parts, and many times were related directly to what was going on at that time. This ayah is in reference to unnecessary questions!
This Hadith was recorded in the Two Sahihs from Sa`id. Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Some people used to question the Messenger of Allah to mock him. One of them would ask, `Who is my father,' while another would ask, `Where is my camel,' when he lost his camel. Allah sent down this Ayah about them,
[يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْ أَشْيَآءَ إِن تُبْدَ لَكُمْ تَسُؤْكُمْ]
(O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble...).'' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Ali said, "When this Ayah was revealed,
[وَللَّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَـعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلاً]
(And Hajj to the House is a duty that mankind owes to Allah, those who can bear the journey.)[3:97], they asked, `O Allah's Messenger! Is it required every year' He did not answer them, and they asked again, `Is it every year' He still did not answer them, so they asked, `Is it every year' He said,
«لَا، وَلَوْ قُلْتُ: نَعَمْ لَوَجَبَتْ وَلَوْ وَجَبَتْ لَمَا اسْتَطَعْتُم»
(No, and had I said `yes', it would have become obligated, and had it become obligated, you would not be able to bear it.) Allah sent down,
[يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْ أَشْيَآءَ إِن تُبْدَ لَكُمْ تَسُؤْكُمْ]
(O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.).'' At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah also recorded this Hadith. The apparent wording of this Ayah indicates that we are forbidden to ask about things that if one has knowledge of, he would be sorry he had asked. Consequently, it is better to avoid such questions. rAllah's statement,
[وَإِن تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْهَا حِينَ يُنَزَّلُ الْقُرْءَانُ تُبْدَ لَكُمْ]
(But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you.) means, if you ask about things that you are prohibited from asking about, then when the revelation about them comes to the Messenger , they will be made plain for you,
[وَذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرٌ]
(Verily! That is easy for Allah.) Allah said next,
[عَفَا اللَّهُ عَنْهَا]
(Allah has forgiven that,) what you did before this,
[وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ]
(and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.) Do not ask about things that do not have a ruling yet, for because of your questions, a difficult ruling may be ordained. A Hadith states,
«أَعْظَمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ جُرْمًا مَنْ سَأَلَ عَنْ شَيْءٍ لَمْ يُحَرَّمْ، فَحُرِّمَ مِنْ أَجْلِ مَسْأَلَتِه»
(The worst criminal among the Muslims is he who asks if a matter is unlawful (or not), and it becomes unlawful because of his asking about it.) It is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said,
«ذَرُونِي مَا تَرَكْتُكُمْ، فَإِنَّمَا أَهْلَكَ مَنْ كَانَ قَبْلَكُمْ كَثْرَةُ سُؤَالِهِمْ وَاخْتِلَافُهُمْ عَلَى أَنْبِيَائِهِم»
(Leave me as I have left you, those before you were destroyed because of many questions and disputing with their Prophets.) An authentic Hadith also states,
«أَنَّ اللهَ تَعَالَى فَرَضَ فَرَائِضَ فَلَا تُضَيِّعُوهَا، وَحَدَّ حُدُودًا فَلَا تَعْتَدُوهَا، وَحَرَّمَ أَشْيَاءَ فَلَا تَنْتَهِكُوهَا، وَسَكَتَ عَنْ أَشْيَاءَ رَحْمَةً بِكُمْ غَيْرَ نِسْيَانٍ فَلَا تَسْأَلُوا عَنْهَا»
(Allah, the Most Honored, has ordained some obligations, so do not ignore them; has set some limits, so do not trespass them; has prohibited some things, so do not commit them; and has left some things without rulings, out of mercy for you, not that He forgot them, so do not ask about them.) Allah said next,
[قَدْ سَأَلَهَا قَوْمٌ مِّن قَبْلِكُمْ ثُمَّ أَصْبَحُواْ بِهَا كَـفِرِينَ ]
(Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers.) meaning, some people before your time asked such questions and they were given answers. They did not believe the answers, so they became disbelievers because of that. This occurred because these rulings were made plain to them, yet they did not benefit at all from that, for they asked about these things not to gain guidance, but only to mock and defy.
The tenses are goofed up (first person...2nd...3rd?) like they are in Sura 6:99.
You cant relate this to English, these changes in tenses are not goofed up, but they're known in Arabic Grammar for the Quran and is called Iltifat, and are also part of the eloquence of the Qur'aan.
To begin with: Iltifât means to 'turn/turn one's face to'. It is an important part of balâgha (Arabic rhetoric) where there is a sudden shift in the pronoun of the speaker or the person spoken about. Muslim literary critics over the centuries have greatly admired this technique. Iltifât has been called by rhetoricians shajâ'at al-'arabiyya as it shows, in their opinion, the daring nature of the Arabic language. If any 'daring' is to be attached to it, it should above all be the daring of the language of the Qur'ân since it employs this feature far more extensively and in more variations than does Arabic poetry. Most of the authors who talk about iltifât use the examples from the Qur'ân. No one seems to quote references in prose other than from the Qur'ân: and indeed a sampling of hadith material found not a single instance.
Much cheer yes, but although I see you do like asking questions, and replying back with even more, not even assuring me you are trying to really look at the religion more than simply criticize it and put it to test...
I will have to ask my brothers and sisters here permission to close this thread, at least temporarily. I dont know for most how much is being gained here, and I fear Ramadaan and it's last few days are quickly approaching and we should put this to rest, at least for now!
wasalam
