Marriage between Muslim man and Christian woman???

[saif]

my 2 cents

:salam2:

Sorry for a belated entry into the discussion.

For Ukht1
The discussion, whether all christians and jews are kuffaar is not off the topic, because this exactly seems to be the confusion our sister Asja is having. I don't think, she was missing a fatwa. She knew the ruling already.

For br. Al-Kashmiri
In another thread (I think, it was da'wa to non-muslims), we (not necessariy you and me) agreed to disagree on the discussion whether all christians and jews are kuffaar. In the context of this discussion I would invite you to give it a second thought. In Surah 98 verse 6 it reads:

" Verily, those among the people of the Book and Idolaters, who did kufr, shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures."

Although it is quite clear that Quran is talking about a subset of the people of the book (and thereby teaching us, that no all people of the book are kuffaar), but if for an instance we assume all people of the book are kuffaar mentioned in this verse, then you will understand why sister Asja is having a hard time understanding the fatwa. The verse even tells us, that not even all mushrikin are kuffaar because shirk and kufr are both severe but different crimes. In the context of this verse, I hold on my opinion that Kuffaar are those who do Kufr, that means reject the faith, after the truth is revealed to them. In fact, I wonder, how somebody can believe that quran has allowed us to marry kuffaar after reading this verse. If I know, that she rejects Islam after having known its truthfulness, I should be the first to reject her, instead of marrying her. In Summary, Quran allows us to marry chaste women among the people of the book under certain conditions, which I will about later but that does not mean, it allows us to marry kuffaar among the people of the book (provided we know about their kufr)

Now for sister Asja:
You have read the fatwa already and I will also come to the same conclusion after my discussion but I will talk about a few point, which will inshaAllah increase your understanding the ruling. My understanding comes from the Quran interpretations of Amin Ahsan Islahi, Allama Hamiduddin Farahi and Javed Ahmad Ghamidi.

The verse 5 of surah al-maedah, which has been quoted in the fatwa begins the word 'alyauma' meaning 'this day' or 'today'. The significance of this word is not reflected in this ruling but a part of our salaf salehin has always maintained that this permission is conditional. This permission came, when 1.) muslims already had a better understanding of halal and haram and there was no danger of confusion because of the mixed marriages 2) muslims were already established as a power. It is for this reason, that a part of our salaf maintains, that that permission is valid only in dar-al-islam. Brothers who marry christian women in europe or america should seriosly think over it.

The second thing, which you should understand is, that shirk and tauhid cannot be combined in one bed. Quran clearly asks us not to marry mushrikin. As far as Christians are concerned, it must be noted that they are basically followers of monotheism. They never admit to polytheism, though they are involved in it. A person becomes a polytheist when he openly admits that he is a polytheist; the reason is that a person might be doing something wrong without realizing what he is doing; Christians, whether of today or from the period of Jesus (sws), have never admitted to polytheism. Trinity to them is in accordance with monotheism. Of course, we, Muslims do no agree with them, but unless they realize it, we can only say that in spite of claiming to be monotheists they are involved in polytheism. Their case is thase of a Muslim who goes to the grave of a saint to ask him to grant a wish; we shall not call such a Muslim a polytheist, we shall tell him that what he is doing is something against monotheism to which he himself strongly claims adherence. Similarly, we shall not call Christians polytheists, but we will keep telling them that what they are doing is not in accordance with monotheism.

It is precisely for this reason that the Quran never referred to the People of the Book as polytheists though they subscribed to certain blatant forms of polytheism.

Summary:
1. There is no point in marrying a kaafir BUT people of the book are not all kuffaar. They are kuffaar among all non-muslims but not all non-muslims are kuffaar.

2. There is no point in marrying a mushrik BUT people of the book are not mushrikin as explained above.

3. Keep in mind the rest of the conditions: Dar-al-Islam, chastity etc.

I hope it helps.

:salam2:

 

[Asja]

:salam2:



Now for sister Asja:
You have read the fatwa already and I will also come to the same conclusion after my discussion but I will talk about a few point, which will inshaAllah increase your understanding the ruling. My understanding comes from the Quran interpretations of Amin Ahsan Islahi, Allama Hamiduddin Farahi and Javed Ahmad Ghamidi.

The verse 5 of surah al-maedah, which has been quoted in the fatwa begins the word 'alyauma' meaning 'this day' or 'today'. The significance of this word is not reflected in this ruling but a part of our salaf salehin has always maintained that this permission is conditional. This permission came, when 1.) muslims already had a better understanding of halal and haram and there was no danger of confusion because of the mixed marriages 2) muslims were already established as a power. It is for this reason, that a part of our salaf maintains, that that permission is valid only in dar-al-islam. Brothers who marry christian women in europe or america should seriosly think over it.

The second thing, which you should understand is, that shirk and tauhid cannot be combined in one bed. Quran clearly asks us not to marry mushrikin. As far as Christians are concerned, it must be noted that they are basically followers of monotheism. They never admit to polytheism, though they are involved in it. A person becomes a polytheist when he openly admits that he is a polytheist; the reason is that a person might be doing something wrong without realizing what he is doing; Christians, whether of today or from the period of Jesus (sws), have never admitted to polytheism. Trinity to them is in accordance with monotheism. Of course, we, Muslims do no agree with them, but unless they realize it, we can only say that in spite of claiming to be monotheists they are involved in polytheism. Their case is thase of a Muslim who goes to the grave of a saint to ask him to grant a wish; we shall not call such a Muslim a polytheist, we shall tell him that what he is doing is something against monotheism to which he himself strongly claims adherence. Similarly, we shall not call Christians polytheists, but we will keep telling them that what they are doing is not in accordance with monotheism.

It is precisely for this reason that the Quran never referred to the People of the Book as polytheists though they subscribed to certain blatant forms of polytheism.

Summary:
1. There is no point in marrying a kaafir BUT people of the book are not all kuffaar. They are kuffaar among all non-muslims but not all non-muslims are kuffaar.

2. There is no point in marrying a mushrik BUT people of the book are not mushrikin as explained above.

3. Keep in mind the rest of the conditions: Dar-al-Islam, chastity etc.

I hope it helps.

:salam2:

Allaicomu salam dear brother

Thank you very much for your kind reply,and for your effort for trying to explain me Mashallah,and may Allah reword you.
But I still have question regarding marriege betwen Muslim man and Christain women.
my question is,is this Muslim family,and waht will happen with chirdners from this marriege???
For example Muslim man prays,go to mosques,does not drink alcohol etc.His wife which is Christain does not pray,does not fast,go to Church,drinks alcohol,eating pork etc.Her family,frineds are comeing to thier home,children are confused etc.
I do not understand how worshiping of Muslim man married with Christian can be accepted in this family,which is not Muslim and which is not clean Muslim family???

May Allah bless you

 

[mhamzah]

:salam2:

 

[saif]

...

my question is,is this Muslim family,and waht will happen with chirdners from this marriege???
For example Muslim man prays,go to mosques,does not drink alcohol etc.His wife which is Christain does not pray,does not fast,go to Church,drinks alcohol,eating pork etc.Her family,frineds are comeing to thier home,children are confused etc.
I do not understand how worshiping of Muslim man married with Christian can be accepted in this family,which is not Muslim and which is not clean Muslim family???
...

Indeed it is a big responsibility, if somebody makes use of this permission. If the family is living in a society, where Islam is the dominant culture, and if the father knows his responsibilities towards his children, then there is a strong hope, that the children will accept the influence of the society. In fact, I know a few examples myself and the children got a very strong islamic identity and they at least did not become worse muslims than the rest of the society. But if the family is living in a society, where Islam is cursed, there is hardly any chance, that children will reject the influence of the whole society ( illa ma shaAllah ). It is difficult enough, when even both parents are muslims.

As far as eating and drinking haram things is concerned, I will again stress the condition of dar-al-islam. If such things have any value for the muslim man, I don't think such a marriage can really work out, unless they have reached an agreement about them and the woman is cooperative. I have read ruling about such things but I will not mention them because I do not have time to find the references.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

Jazaak Allaahu khayran saif... Kufr and Shirk are different crimes, but the definitions do overlap, so it is possible and very correct to call them kuffaar. For instance, we know that to deny a single messenger or prophet, is to deny them all, this is the meaning of the aayah 136 in Surah Al-Baqaraah. So if a Christian or Jew denies any of the Prophets and/or messenger of Allaah, is he committing shirk or kufr? The answer is kufr.

Others have said sayings that indicate every mushrik is a kaafir, but not every kaafir is a mushrik although I can't remember the source for this. On another note, Kufr as we know, has been divided into different types itself, so one is not incorrect by labeling the Ahl ul-Kitaab, those from after the Prophet's sall-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam messengership, and the yahood from the time of `Eesa `alayhi salaam as kuffaar...

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

Sharh Saheeh Muslim. 2/71

See the fatwa here

Allaah knows best. But again, much of it comes down to how/what you intend by the term.

Was-salaam

EDIT: Anyhow, it seems that you're referring to the terms individually and me, by the fact that they can be interchanged... not really an issue because it seems we're both correct. Alhamdulillaah.

 

[Asja]

Indeed it is a big responsibility, if somebody makes use of this permission. If the family is living in a society, where Islam is the dominant culture, and if the father knows his responsibilities towards his children, then there is a strong hope, that the children will accept the influence of the society. In fact, I know a few examples myself and the children got a very strong islamic identity and they at least did not become worse muslims than the rest of the society. But if the family is living in a society, where Islam is cursed, there is hardly any chance, that children will reject the influence of the whole society ( illa ma shaAllah ). It is difficult enough, when even both parents are muslims.

As far as eating and drinking haram things is concerned, I will again stress the condition of dar-al-islam. If such things have any value for the muslim man, I don't think such a marriage can really work out, unless they have reached an agreement about them and the woman is cooperative. I have read ruling about such things but I will not mention them because I do not have time to find the references.

Assalamu Alaicum dear brother

Allhamdullilah I understand dear brother what you want to say and yes it is a great responsability that can easly lead in the two directions. One is that Christian woman becomes Muslim and the other one is that Muslim man leaves his religion in this case Islam. And regarding the children they can find themselves in the same situation.

This familly is not Muslim familly so the two persones that are in the matrimonial comunity are living separeted lifes only on the same place(in the same house). Their obligations and duties are not the same, neither they are submited under the same low.

In the first place what is the purpose of this familly???

Like we all know familly has one of the most importante roles in every society and the same is with Islam society. Muslim familly needs to keep Allahs words, sunnah of His last Messanger Mohammed s.a.w.s. and pass it on the next generations.

That is why this so complex question that is very hard for me to understand. But Inshallah I hope that with gaining more knowledge and with the time Inshallah I will be able to understand it better.

Thank you dear brother for your kind effort that you have given to answer on this question and for sharing your great knowledge with us Mashallah.

May Allah bless you

Assalamu Alaicum

 

[mhamzah]

Salam Alakum

[:salam2:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muْammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] explicit - they are the foundation of the Book - and others implicit. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.


According to Quran, People of the Book comes in many shade and colour. Amongst them are;

1. Who are idolators (2:221).
2. Who distort words of Allah (2:79, 3:78).
3. Who disbelieve (59:2, 59:11, 98:1, 98:6)
4 They trangress the limits.
5. Amongst them are those who believe.[/B] (2:62, 3:113-15, 4:162 , 5:66 etc)

Based on various verses of the Quran, Muslims men can marry women of the people of the book (category 5). There are certain criterias that needs to be fulfillied (thus category 1-4 cannot be married based on following verses of the Quran).

1. They must be chaste (5:5).
2. They must not be idolators (2:221).
3. Must not be adultress (based on another verses - I need to check the reference).

Now coming to the question of how the marriage would work, considering Muslim men prays, fast, eats halal, no drinking etc, and on the other hand women of Christian/Jewish would not do these actions. Remember, the criterias for marrying the women, (a) she is a believer, (b) she is a chaste women etc.

Well if she is indeed a beliver than she would abstrain from alcohol, pork, etc and would pray and fast because what does the Quran says, Jews and Christians possess scriptures in which is truth (in addition to things written by men which have been attributed to Allah). Plus she Believes in Allah, Last Day, Quran and previous revelations. Indeed amongst Jews and Christians are people who don't drink, who dont eat pork, there are other who don't conisder Isa ibn Mariam (pbuh) as God etc.

If she is a believer then she would not pass over verses in the bible such as;

1. Wine is probihited - Proverbs 20:1, Ephesians 5:18
2. Halal food in bible - Acts 15:29
3. Pork forbidden - Deuteronomy 14:8
4. God is not man - Hosea 11:9
5. Faith and works/deeds both necessary to be successful -- James 2:26
6. Keep the Law - Mathew (5:17-20)
etc etc

Three charges against them (people of the book) are;

1. They have access to Truth, but they pass over verses - References included above.
2. They distort/hide the meaning, or give it a different interpretation -- thats for later discussion.
3. Third charge is they attribute things written by men/scribes to Allah. -- Is that a charge just made by the Quran -- Read Jeremiah 8:8 -- Scribes lying pen, Check RSV

However a believing women from amongst the people of the book is not guilty of these crimes. I hope I have not mixed up things and am able to convey my point across.

And Allah Knows Best!

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

Baarak Allaahu feekum.

I've never heard of them being "believers" except that it was in reference to those from the past. For example, Ibn Katheer rahimahullaah, in speaking about aayah 62 of Al-Baqaraah seems to interpret this to mean those Christians Jews and Sabians of the past. Others from the mufassireen, such as Ibn Jarir rahimahullaah, said that this aayah was abrogated (by the aayah, "And whoever seeks a religion othr than Islaam..." 3:85) and they cite from Ibn `Abbas.

So despite what angle I look at it from (from the two above mentioned opinions), it doesn't indicate in any case that their are believers amongst them, in our times. Also, I have never heard of this additional condition for marrying them, for they can never be believers until they accept Islaam.

Inshaa' Allaah, if you can akhi, provide reference to your sources and citations from the `Ullemaa' who held these opinion (that they're are believers amongst ahl ul-Kitaab and that belief is a condition for marrying women from ahl ul-kitaab).

Jazaak Allaahu khayran.

Allaah knows best.

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

Thank you very much dear brother Mhamzah for your kind and usefull replys MashAllah.

May Allah s.w.t reword you and may Alah increase our knolowdge.Ameen

 

[AdamMuslim]

Salam Alikom,

Muslin mens are allowed to marry a Christian or Jew women because its believed that children usually follow the religion of there father since he will have a more stronger impact on them and also because a women is supposed to obey her husband and hence the descendant will be Muslim too.

Unlike sister Samiha, I can't tell people to not ask too many questions. This is how we learn and how we can widen our knowledge. Indeed there is too many verses in Quran and many Hadiths that encourage us to learn and we can't learn without asking questions. However, I agree with sister Samiha that some silly question might confuse us. But I think this is not the case here.

Wassalam,

 

[Um Ibrahim]

I really don't think anybody has the answer for the question asked.

Asalam wailkium.

Firstly here is the ayat that gives muslim men permission to marry christain and jewish women.

...“And (Lawful in marriage are) chaste women from among the believers and
chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you…” [Surah Al-Maidah 5:5].

Logic behind it: many sahabah's may have been married to christain women, or wanted to marry christain women, this verse therefore allows it as there is alot of common belief between the abrahamic religions, thus serves as a means of dawah and gaining new converts. When muslims went into byzantium lands they encountered large populations of christains, allowing our men to marry their women helped intergration this happened commonly in Al Andalus, Syria and Turkey.

Now this group of women cannot be mushriks (i.e. asssociating partners with Allah, those who believe Jesus is God or his son etc). If they are christain they should believe Jesus as a messenger of God i.e. Unitarians.

“And do not marry Mushrik (polytheistic) women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you.” [Surah Al-Baqarah 2:221].

So there is no contradiction, there is 2 points, 1st) we can marry jews and christains 2) but you cannot marry any random female, she must not associate partners with Allah ie commit shirk.

Furthermore there are verses that talk of christains and jewish groups that are good enough due to their actions and beliefs and of others who are the opposite:

Among them (Jews and the Christians) are believers but most of them are defiantly disobedient.” [Surah Ali Imran 3:110].

Now... during the time of Umar, he banned muslim men ffrom marrying christain women, uthman (RA) wanted to marry a christain women, however he did not due to this banning. Umar's logic was that if the men married christain women, then who would marry the muslim women, espeically those who left christain men after converting to Islam. He saw it as a growing problem and therefore believed it was a priority as a temporary piece of law to promoting muslim men to take muslim wifes instead of christain ones, however note this was only seen as a temporary move, never permanent.

Summary: there is a verse that allows muslim men to marry jewish and christain women, however Allah states there are different subgroups within the people of the book, the majority commit shirk and therefore are unbelievers, thus our men should not and cannot marry them, the lesser minority which do not commit shirk are believers in the one true God, and thus we can marry them. Even in our times, although in a minority position there are still unitarian christain believers.

Amir of spain

I don't think there are any christian group out there that are not corrupt in this current time that we are in. Most if not all of their sects, believe that Jesus (AS), is the son of God, subhanaAllah. Ok, forget about christians, people who call themselves Muslims who do not pray or fast or practise the religion are considered non-Muslims by many scholars. So what do you think about people who, forget about praying, or fasting in the Islamic way, but associate things with Allah.


Asja: The question you asked, is one that used to be in my head for such a long time. I just couldn't understand why or how Allah would allow a Muslim man to marry a Christian or jew woman who does not pray, fast, or believe in the one and only true God, but believes that God has a son...SubhanaAllah! We all know that Husband and Wife, have the most closest and most intimate of relationships. They are, or should be closer than anybody else. This is why I just couldn't understand how a Muslim person and a Christain can be so close when there are so many verses of the Quran that tells us not to even befreind those who associate things with Allah.

The only reason I could think of is, only Allah knows best and only Allah knows why He allowed Muslim men to marry non-Muslims. So there must be some positive in this, or else Allah wouldn't have allowed it. As Muslims, we should accept whatever Allah allows and whatever Allah does not allow even if our minds cannot understand it or see the good that is in it. We're only human beings so we can only know so much.


I would tell you that it's best not to think about this so much. Because if you do, then shaytan will try to corrupt your mind and create more questions and even anger, so just accept this as it is and leave it to Allah(sw). That's what I did.

 

[boymuh]

Well, I have some question :

Is there so much different between the ahlul kitaab at The Prophet Muhammad SAW age with the ahlul kitaab today?
Did they didn't worship their prophets/scholars/monks, like they do today?
Did their books was not corrupted yet & so much different from their books today?

Is there nothing good at all by marrying an ahlul kitaab women?*
Considering some (non)moslem predict that Islam will be spread widely, and conquer The "Rum" with some way, (few of them) such as with knowledge (from internet too), logical way of thinking of a well educated non moslem, and marriage.

Is there nothing bad at all by marrying an ahlul kitaab women?*
Considering children (family) are very valuable & important asset to a community(es), and need to be taken care of in the way of Islam. Can the ahlul kitaab women provide & do it all? Will the husband strong enough to conquer the heart of his wife?

*Of course, terms & conditions applied.

And of course I don't have all the answers. Wallahu a'lam.

Wassalaamu'alaikum.

boymuh