meaning of this ayah.pls

Prosperous

asthagfirullah
:salam2:
I am thinking and searching for this, but nothing came yet. here is tha ayah
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”[al-Talaaq 65:4]
as for there is another verse in qur'an..
“O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no ‘Iddah [divorce prescribed period, see (V.65:4)] have you to count in respect of them”
[al-Ahzaab 33:49]
from many fatawas I read that marrying before a girl hit her puberty is allowed but getting intimate before she gets matured and her body is still not prepared and not started producing any hormone or feelings of those...(i desire to write so much..a young girls right..but u all know so..), is haram. I read that prophet saw also got intimate with aisha after she was 9 and matured. So I'm getting this is true then they CANNOT HAVE IDDAH. but from this 2 verses,only wemen who have intercourse can have iddah, and then there it says about immatured gals having iddah...*asthagfirullah asthagfirullah*, I know qur'an is the true book, so either the other saying is false or my mind tells me this is CRUEL.*asthagfirullah*..pls give a good reply as this is the first time I found something UNACCEPTABLE to MY MIND in islam...
jazakAllah khair in advance.
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”[al-Talaaq 65:4]

The part in red does not *only* apply to girls who are "immature" they also apply to older women who have gone through menopause and no longer have menses.."immature girls" were given as *one* example of who is *meant* in the verse

as for there is another verse in qur'an..
“O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no ‘Iddah [divorce prescribed period, see (V.65:4)] have you to count in respect of them”
[al-Ahzaab 33:49]

This verse is in regards to a man and woman who have made nikah..and they disagree or decide not to go on with the marriage..at that point..due to *nikah being completed*..then divorce is necessary...when the divorces is *completed* in turn..there is no Iddah for that woman..as the marriage was not "consummated" with her

Inshallah someone else will swing by and elaborate better (preferably with citings of tafsir and such so things sound more credible inshallah)..but I hope this answered your questions at least *briefly* sister :)

:wasalam:
 

AbdAllah84

Junior Member
This verse is in regards to a man and woman who have made nikah..and they disagree or decide not to go on with the marriage..at that point..due to *nikah being completed*..then divorce is necessary...when the divorces is *completed* in turn..there is no Iddah for that woman..as the marriage was not "consummated" with her

:wasalam:

:salam2:

Tafisr of verse 33:49

This Ayah contains many rulings, including the use of the word Nikah for the marriage contract alone. There is no other Ayah in the Qur'an that is clearer than this on this point. It also indicates that it is permissible to divorce a woman before consummating the marriage with her.

(believing women) this refers to what is usually the case, although there is no difference between a believing (Muslim) woman and a woman of the People of the Book in this regard, according to scholarly consensus. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, Sa`id bin Al-Musayyib, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, `Ali bin Al-Husayn Zayn-ul-`Abidin and a group of the Salaf took this Ayah as evidence that divorce cannot occur unless it has been preceded by marriage, because Allah says,

(When you marry believing women, and then divorce them) The marriage contract here is followed by divorce, which indicates that the divorce cannot be valid if it comes first. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "If someone were to say, `every woman I marry will ipso facto be divorced,' this does not mean anything, because Allah says:

(O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them....).'' It was also reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "Allah said,

(When you marry believing women, and then divorce them.) Do you not see that divorce comes after marriage'' A Hadith to the same effect was recorded from `Amr bin Shu`ayb from his father from his grandfather, who said: "The Messenger of Allah said:

(There is no divorce for the son of Adam with regard to that which he does not possess.) This was recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah. At-Tirmidhi said, "This is a Hasan Hadith, and it is the best thing that has been narrated on this matter.'' It was also recorded by Ibn Majah from `Ali and Al-Miswar bin Makhramah, may Allah be pleased with them, that the Messenger of Allah said:

(There is no divorce before marriage.)

(no `Iddah have you to count in respect of them.) This is a command on which the scholars are agreed, that if a woman is divorced before the marriage is consummated, she does not have to observe the `Iddah (prescribed period for divorce) and she may go and get married immediately to whomever she wishes. The only exception in this regard is a woman whose husband died, in which case she has to observe an `Iddah of four months and ten days even if the marriage was not consummated. This is also according to the consensus of the scholars.

(So, give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner.) The present here refers to something more general than half of the named dowery or a special gift that has not been named. Allah says:

(And if you divorce them before you have touched (had a sexual relation with) them, and you have fixed unto them their due (dowery) then pay half of that) (2:237). And Allah says:

(There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched them, nor fixed unto them their due (dowery). But bestow on them gift, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means, a gift of reasonable amount is a duty on the doers of good.) (2:236) pIn Sahih Al-Bukhari, it was recorded that Sahl bin Sa`d and Abu Usayd, may Allah be pleased with them both, said, "The Messenger of Allah married Umaymah bint Sharahil, and when she entered upon him he reached out his hand towards her, and it was as if she did not like that, so he told Abu Usayd to give her two garments.'' `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said "If the dowery had been named, she would not be entitled to more than half, but if the dowery is not been named, he should give her a gift according to his means, and this is the "handsome manner.''

:wasalam:
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
:salam2:

Tafisr of verse 33:49

This Ayah contains many rulings, including the use of the word Nikah for the marriage contract alone. There is no other Ayah in the Qur'an that is clearer than this on this point. It also indicates that it is permissible to divorce a woman before consummating the marriage with her.

(believing women) this refers to what is usually the case, although there is no difference between a believing (Muslim) woman and a woman of the People of the Book in this regard, according to scholarly consensus. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, Sa`id bin Al-Musayyib, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, `Ali bin Al-Husayn Zayn-ul-`Abidin and a group of the Salaf took this Ayah as evidence that divorce cannot occur unless it has been preceded by marriage, because Allah says,

(When you marry believing women, and then divorce them) The marriage contract here is followed by divorce, which indicates that the divorce cannot be valid if it comes first. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "If someone were to say, `every woman I marry will ipso facto be divorced,' this does not mean anything, because Allah says:

(O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them....).'' It was also reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "Allah said,

(When you marry believing women, and then divorce them.) Do you not see that divorce comes after marriage'' A Hadith to the same effect was recorded from `Amr bin Shu`ayb from his father from his grandfather, who said: "The Messenger of Allah said:

(There is no divorce for the son of Adam with regard to that which he does not possess.) This was recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah. At-Tirmidhi said, "This is a Hasan Hadith, and it is the best thing that has been narrated on this matter.'' It was also recorded by Ibn Majah from `Ali and Al-Miswar bin Makhramah, may Allah be pleased with them, that the Messenger of Allah said:

(There is no divorce before marriage.)

(no `Iddah have you to count in respect of them.) This is a command on which the scholars are agreed, that if a woman is divorced before the marriage is consummated, she does not have to observe the `Iddah (prescribed period for divorce) and she may go and get married immediately to whomever she wishes. The only exception in this regard is a woman whose husband died, in which case she has to observe an `Iddah of four months and ten days even if the marriage was not consummated. This is also according to the consensus of the scholars.

(So, give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner.) The present here refers to something more general than half of the named dowery or a special gift that has not been named. Allah says:

(And if you divorce them before you have touched (had a sexual relation with) them, and you have fixed unto them their due (dowery) then pay half of that) (2:237). And Allah says:

(There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched them, nor fixed unto them their due (dowery). But bestow on them gift, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means, a gift of reasonable amount is a duty on the doers of good.) (2:236) pIn Sahih Al-Bukhari, it was recorded that Sahl bin Sa`d and Abu Usayd, may Allah be pleased with them both, said, "The Messenger of Allah married Umaymah bint Sharahil, and when she entered upon him he reached out his hand towards her, and it was as if she did not like that, so he told Abu Usayd to give her two garments.'' `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said "If the dowery had been named, she would not be entitled to more than half, but if the dowery is not been named, he should give her a gift according to his means, and this is the "handsome manner.''

:wasalam:

Jazaka Allah Khair akhi..thank you for elaborating..I was hoping that someone would stop by with a reference to scholarly explanations..and you did that..baraka allaho feek

:wasalam:
 

Prosperous

asthagfirullah
The part in red does not *only* apply to girls who are "immature" they also apply to older women who have gone through menopause and no longer have menses.."immature girls" were given as *one* example of who is *meant* in the verse

:salam2: sister, I don't think so, because Allah(swt) has clearly mentioned about these wemen in tha part before in same verse, so this part is meant to other people. here is the first part."And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months;..
and followed by "and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise."
As you can clearly see this last part is meant to pple other than those who have gone manopause as first part is *specific* to them.
This is to the girls who have not have thier menses yet, and again My question is not answered in wither of the post here, as my question was about this part which says, they(the immature girls) HAVE an iddah when Iddan is prescribed only when marriage is consumated, AND if consumation before a girl reach puberty is HARAM, then how can these three things go together?
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
:salam2: sister, I don't think so, because Allah(swt) has clearly mentioned about these wemen in tha part before in same verse, so this part is meant to other people. here is the first part."And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months;..
and followed by "and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise."
As you can clearly see this last part is meant to pple other than those who have gone manopause as first part is *specific* to them.
This is to the girls who have not have thier menses yet, and again My question is not answered in wither of the post here, as my question was about this part which says, they(the immature girls) HAVE an iddah when Iddan is prescribed only when marriage is consumated, AND if consumation before a girl reach puberty is HARAM, then how can these three things go together?

Oh I see..I'm sorry sister!..I mustve' really misunderstood you and it seems that I even misunderstood the verse because I read and typed a reply in a hurry because I had to get back to some work (serves me right..so next time I'd be more careful)..anyway..I honestly do not have an answer for you..I have to make research on this..if I find anything worthy..I will surely relate it back here for you..and I apologize again for giving you an unfitting answer sister :)

:wasalam:
 

IbnAdam77

Travelling towards my grave.
:salam2:
I am thinking and searching for this, but nothing came yet. here is tha ayah
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”[al-Talaaq 65:4]
as for there is another verse in qur'an..
“O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no ‘Iddah [divorce prescribed period, see (V.65:4)] have you to count in respect of them”
[al-Ahzaab 33:49]
from many fatawas I read that marrying before a girl hit her puberty is allowed but getting intimate before she gets matured and her body is still not prepared and not started producing any hormone or feelings of those...(i desire to write so much..a young girls right..but u all know so..), is haram. I read that prophet saw also got intimate with aisha after she was 9 and matured. So I'm getting this is true then they CANNOT HAVE IDDAH. but from this 2 verses,only wemen who have intercourse can have iddah, and then there it says about immatured gals having iddah...*asthagfirullah asthagfirullah*, I know qur'an is the true book, so either the other saying is false or my mind tells me this is CRUEL.*asthagfirullah*..pls give a good reply as this is the first time I found something UNACCEPTABLE to MY MIND in islam...
jazakAllah khair in advance.

wa'alaikumussalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

Sister this is a huge issue on which you need to ask directly from an 'Ulama. We have no authority to give our own meanings or openions for what Allah (subuhaanahu wata'aala) has said in His book. Therefore I am quoting this explanation of the Ayahs you referred from our famous Tafsir book "Tafsir ibn Kathir".

Surah al-Talaaq Verse number 4 & 5.

﴿
وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُوْلَـتُ الاٌّحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْراً - ذَلِكَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ أَنزَلَهُ إِلَيْكُمْ وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يُكَفِّرْ عَنْهُ سَيِّئَـتِهِ وَيُعْظِمْ لَهُ أَجْراً ﴾
(4. Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses. And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden; and whosoever has Taqwa of Allah, He will make his matter easy for him.) (5. That is the command of Allah, which He has sent down to you; and whosoever has Taqwa of Allah, He will expiate from him his sins, and will increase his reward.)


Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;


﴿
وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾​

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

﴿
إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ﴾​

(if you have doubt...) There are two opinions: First, is the saying of a group of the Salaf, like Mujahid, Az-Zuhri and Ibn Zayd. That is, if they see blood and there is doubt if it was menstrual blood or not. The second, is that if you do not know the ruling in this case, then know that their `Iddah is three months. This has been reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr and it is the view preferred by Ibn Jarir. And this is the more obvious meaning. Supporting this view is what is reported from Ubay bin Ka`b that he said, "O Allah's Messenger! Some women were not mentioned in the Qur'an, the young, the old and the pregnant.'' Allah the Exalted and Most Honored sent down this Ayah,

﴿
وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُوْلَـتُ الاٌّحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ﴾
(Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses. And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden). Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a simpler narration than this one from Ubay bin Ka`b who said, "O Allah's Messenger! When the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah was revealed prescribing the `Iddah of divorce, some people in Al-Madinah said, `There are still some women whose `Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed,

﴿وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾​

(Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses.)''

Allah's statement,

﴿وَأُوْلَـتُ الاٌّحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ﴾​

(And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden). Allah says: the pregnant woman's `Iddah ends when she gives birth, whether in the case of divorce or death of the husband, according to the agreement of the majority of scholars of the Salaf and later generations. This is based upon this honorable Ayah and what is mentioned in the Prophetic Sunnah. Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Salamah said, "A man came to Ibn `Abbas while Abu Hurayrah was sitting with him and said, `Give me your verdict regarding a lady who delivered a baby forty days after the death of her husband.' Ibn `Abbas said,` ﴿Her `Iddah period lasts until﴾ the end of the longest among the two prescribed periods.' I recited,


﴿
وَأُوْلَـتُ الاٌّحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ﴾​

(For those who are pregnant, their prescribed period is until they deliver their burdens). Abu Hurayrah said, `I agree with my cousin (Abu Salamah).' Then Ibn `Abbas sent his slave Kurayb to Umm Salamah to ask her. She replied, `The husband of Subay`ah Al-Aslamiyyah was killed while she was pregnant, and she delivered a baby forty days after his death. Then she received a marriage proposal and Allah's Messenger married her to somebody. Abu As-Sanabil was one of those who proposed to her.'' Al-Bukhari collected this short form of the Hadith, which Muslim and other scholars of Hadith collected using its longer form. Imam Ahmad recorded that Al-Miswar bin Makhramah said, "Subay`ah Al-Aslamiyyah gave birth to a child a few days after the death of her husband. When she finished the postdelivery term, she was proposed to. So she sought the permission of Allah's Messenger for the marriage, and he permitted her to marry, so she got married.'' Al-Bukhari collected this narration, as did Muslim, Abu Dawud, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah with a different chain of narration from the Hadith of Subay`ah. Muslim bin Al-Hajjaj recorded that `Ubaydullah bin `Abdullah bin `Utbah said that his father wrote to `Umar bin `Abdullah bin Al-Arqam Az-Zuhri, requesting that he go to Subay`ah bint Al-Harith Al-Aslamiyyah to ask her about the matter in question, and about what Allah's Messenger said to her when she sought his verdict. `Umar bin `Abdullah wrote to `Ubaydullah bin `Abdullah bin `Utbah informing him that Subay`ah told him that she had been married to Sa`d bin Khawlah, and he was one of those who participated in the battle of Badr. He died during the Farewell Pilgrimage, while she was pregnant. Soon after his death, she gave birth. When she passed the postnatal term, she beautified herself for those who might propose to her. Abu As-Sanabil bin Ba`kak came to her and said, `Why do I see you have beautified yourself Do you wish to remarry By Allah, you cannot marry unless four months and ten days have passed.'' Subay`ah said, "When he said that, I dressed myself in the evening and went to Allah's Messenger and asked him about his verdict. He gave me a religious verdict that I was allowed to marry after I had given birth to my child, saying I could marry if I wish.'' This is the narration that Muslim collected. Al-Bukhari collected this Hadith in a shorter form. Allah's statement,


﴿
وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْراً﴾​

(and whosoever has Taqwa of Allah, He will make his matter easy for him.) means, Allah will make his matters lenient for him and will soon bring forth relief and a quick way out,


﴿
ذَلِكَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ أَنزَلَهُ إِلَيْكُمْ﴾​

(That is the command of Allah, which He has sent down to you); meaning, this is His commandment and legislation that He sent down to you through His Messenger ,


﴿وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يُكَفِّرْ عَنْهُ سَيِّئَـتِهِ وَيُعْظِمْ لَهُ أَجْراً﴾​

(and whosoever has Taqwa of Allah, He will expiate from him his sins, and will increase his reward). means, Allah will prevent what he fears and multiply his reward even for the little good he does.


Here is the Tafsir of Surah al-Ahzaab Verse number 49.

﴿يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ إِذَا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِن قَبْلِ أَن تَمَسُّوهُنَّ فَمَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَهَا فَمَتِّعُوهُنَّ وَسَرِّحُوهُنَّ سَرَاحاً جَمِيلاً ﴾​

(49. O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no `Iddah have you to count in respect of them. So, give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner.)

This Ayah contains many rulings, including the use of the word Nikah for the marriage contract alone. There is no other Ayah in the Qur'an that is clearer than this on this point. It also indicates that it is permissible to divorce a woman before consummating the marriage with her.


﴿الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ﴾​

(believing women) this refers to what is usually the case, although there is no difference between a believing (Muslim) woman and a woman of the People of the Book in this regard, according to scholarly consensus. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, Sa`id bin Al-Musayyib, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, `Ali bin Al-Husayn Zayn-ul-`Abidin and a group of the Salaf took this Ayah as evidence that divorce cannot occur unless it has been preceded by marriage, because Allah says,


﴿إِذَا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ﴾

(When you marry believing women, and then divorce them) The marriage contract here is followed by divorce, which indicates that the divorce cannot be valid if it comes first. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "If someone were to say, `every woman I marry will ipso facto be divorced,' this does not mean anything, because Allah says:


﴿يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ إِذَا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ﴾​


(O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them....).'' It was also reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "Allah said,

﴿إِذَا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ﴾

(When you marry believing women, and then divorce them). Do you not see that divorce comes after marriage'' A Hadith to the same effect was recorded from `Amr bin Shu`ayb from his father from his grandfather, who said: "The Messenger of Allah said:


«لَا طَلَاقَ لِابْنِ آدَمَ فِيمَا لَا يَمْلِك»

(There is no divorce for the son of Adam with regard to that which he does not possess). This was recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah. At-Tirmidhi said, "This is a Hasan Hadith, and it is the best thing that has been narrated on this matter.'' It was also recorded by Ibn Majah from `Ali and Al-Miswar bin Makhramah, may Allah be pleased with them, that the Messenger of Allah said:

«لَا طَلَاقَ قَبْلَ نِكَاح»

(There is no divorce before marriage.)


﴿فَمَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَهَا﴾

(no `Iddah have you to count in respect of them). This is a command on which the scholars are agreed, that if a woman is divorced before the marriage is consummated, she does not have to observe the `Iddah (prescribed period for divorce) and she may go and get married immediately to whomever she wishes. The only exception in this regard is a woman whose husband died, in which case she has to observe an `Iddah of four months and ten days even if the marriage was not consummated. This is also according to the consensus of the scholars.

﴿فَمَتِّعُوهُنَّ وَسَرِّحُوهُنَّ سَرَاحاً جَمِيلاً﴾

(So, give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner). The present here refers to something more general than half of the named dowery or a special gift that has not been named. Allah says:


﴿وَإِن طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِن قَبْلِ أَن تَمَسُّوهُنَّ وَقَدْ فَرَضْتُمْ لَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً فَنِصْفُ مَا فَرَضْتُمْ﴾

(And if you divorce them before you have touched (had a sexual relation with) them, and you have fixed unto them their due (dowery) then pay half of that) (2:237). And Allah says:



﴿لاَّ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِن طَلَّقْتُمُ النِّسَآءَ مَا لَمْ تَمَسُّوهُنَّ أَوْ تَفْرِضُواْ لَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً وَمَتِّعُوهُنَّ عَلَى الْمُوسِعِ قَدَرُهُ وَعَلَى الْمُقْتِرِ قَدْرُهُ مَتَـعاً بِالْمَعْرُوفِ حَقًّا عَلَى الْمُحْسِنِينَ ﴾

(There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched them, nor fixed unto them their due (dowery). But bestow on them gift, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means, a gift of reasonable amount is a duty on the doers of good.) (2:236) pIn Sahih Al-Bukhari, it was recorded that Sahl bin Sa`d and Abu Usayd, may Allah be pleased with them both, said, "The Messenger of Allah married Umaymah bint Sharahil, and when she entered upon him he reached out his hand towards her, and it was as if she did not like that, so he told Abu Usayd to give her two garments.'' `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said "If the dowery had been named, she would not be entitled to more than half, but if the dowery is not been named, he should give her a gift according to his means, and this is the "handsome manner.''

That is what I can provide regarding this matter my sister. I am not an 'Ulama and I fear Allah (subuhaanahu wata'aala) to talk about something which I do not know. May Allah make it easy for you to understand.

Hope this helps you.

wassalam 'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
Hope this answers your question.

:salam2:

Pickthal: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him. (65:4)

Yusuf Ali: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy


There are several issues that needs to be looked at, lets break them down.

1. Two opinions over the word 'if ye doubt'

Tafsir Ibn Kathir as provided by brother Ibn Adam says;

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

(if you have doubt...) There are two opinions: First, is the saying of a group of the Salaf, like Mujahid, Az-Zuhri and Ibn Zayd. That is, if they see blood and there is doubt if it was menstrual blood or not. The second, is that if you do not know the ruling in this case, then know that their `Iddah is three months. This has been reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr and it is the view preferred by Ibn Jarir.

2. 'and for those who have no courses': (Prior to mensuration):

In the context of this verse prior to ‘buloogh’ refers only to ‘prior to menstruation’, since the verse speaks about those who have no courses. That could be due to three reasons;

a. They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age.
b. Delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women.
c. Or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case.

When a girl has her first menstrual period, she is generally considered as having reached ‘buloogh’ / puberty.

3a. Marriage before puberty:
3b. What constitutes puberty in Islam i.e. what are the signs of puberty.


Marriage before puberty:

Girls cannot consummate marriage before puberty. The evidence of this can be found in the other verse of the Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

The Prophet, peace be upon him, didn’t consummate his marriage with Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, when she was six. If a marriage could be consummated at any age with a girl prior to puberty, then certainly the prophet, peace be upon him, would have consummated his marriage with Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, when she was six. He consummated his marriage with her three years later. The reason of course was that they were waiting for her to reach puberty.

What are the signs of puberty:

The generally considered sign of puberty is Mensuration. However like discussed before what if 'The mensuration is signifcantly delayed' or what if a girl losses all hope of mensuration'.

In that case there are other things which are a sign of having reached ‘majority/ puberty’ in islam. These signs are:

1. Wet dreams:
2. breasts and public hair and
3. According to many scholars the age of 15 years. (Imam Malik, May Allah be pleased with him, was one of them).

Evidence for these signs can be found in the Tafsir of verse 4: 6 by Ibn Kathir and other hadiths.

Tafsir of verse 4:6 'Tafsir Ibn Kathir'

And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

Allah said,

(And test orphans) meaning, test their intelligence, as Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan stated.

(until they reach the age of marriage), the age of puberty, according to Mujahid. The age of puberty according to the majority of scholars comes when the child has a wet dream. In his Sunan, Abu Dawud recorded that `Ali said, "I memorized these words from the Messenger of Allah ,

(There is no orphan after the age of puberty nor vowing to be silent throughout the day to the night.) In another Hadith, `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, and other Companions said that the Prophet said,

(The pen does not record the deeds of three persons: the child until the age of puberty, the sleeping person until waking up, and the senile until sane.) Or, the age of fifteen is considered the age of adolescence.

In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Ibn `Umar said, "I was presented in front of the Prophet on the eve of the battle of Uhud, while I was fourteen years of age, and he did not allow me to take part in that battle. But I was presented in front of him on the eve of the battle of Al-Khandaq (The Trench) when I was fifteen years old, and he allowed me (to join that battle).'' `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz commented when this Hadith reached him, "This is the difference between a child and an adult.''

There is a difference of opinion over whether pubic hair is considered a sign of adulthood, and the correct opinion is that it is. The Sunnah supports this view, according to a Hadith collected by Imam Ahmad from `Atiyah Al-Qurazi who said, We were presented to the Prophet on the day of Qurizah, whoever had pubic hair was killed, whoever did not was left free to go, I was one of those who did not, so I was left free.'' The Four Sunan compilers also recorded similar to it. At-Tirmidhi said, "Hasan Sahih.'' Allah's statement,

Other Hadiths;

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67

The Prophet said: “A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission “


To Sum up:

The consummation of marriage in islam can only occur when a girl has reached puberty. Therefore a girl who has not yet had her first menstrual period, can only consummate marriage prior to menstruation when she has reached majority/puberty trough other ways. These others ways are: having a wet dream, having already public hair, breasts or reaching the age of 15 years. The fact that a girl can consummate marriage at the onset of her puberty, does not mean that girls have to marry at this age. It’s only an option.

Other issues to consider:

Marriage at the onset of puberty, if she and her parents are sure that there would be no harm in it for her to marry and consummate her marriage, since the prophet said:

The Prophet said: “There shall be no infliction of harm on oneself or others" (Ibn Majah and Ahmad).

AND ALLAH SWT KNOWS BEST.

:wasalam:
 

Prosperous

asthagfirullah
:salam2:

Pickthal: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him. (65:4)

Yusuf Ali: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy


There are several issues that needs to be looked at, lets break them down.

1. Two opinions over the word 'if ye doubt'

Tafsir Ibn Kathir as provided by brother Ibn Adam says;

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

(if you have doubt...) There are two opinions: First, is the saying of a group of the Salaf, like Mujahid, Az-Zuhri and Ibn Zayd. That is, if they see blood and there is doubt if it was menstrual blood or not. The second, is that if you do not know the ruling in this case, then know that their `Iddah is three months. This has been reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr and it is the view preferred by Ibn Jarir.

2. 'and for those who have no courses': (Prior to mensuration):

In the context of this verse prior to ‘buloogh’ refers only to ‘prior to menstruation’, since the verse speaks about those who have no courses. That could be due to three reasons;

a. They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age.
b. Delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women.
c. Or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case.

When a girl has her first menstrual period, she is generally considered as having reached ‘buloogh’ / puberty.

3a. Marriage before puberty:
3b. What constitutes puberty in Islam i.e. what are the signs of puberty.


Marriage before puberty:

Girls cannot consummate marriage before puberty. The evidence of this can be found in the other verse of the Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

The Prophet, peace be upon him, didn’t consummate his marriage with Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, when she was six. If a marriage could be consummated at any age with a girl prior to puberty, then certainly the prophet, peace be upon him, would have consummated his marriage with Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, when she was six. He consummated his marriage with her three years later. The reason of course was that they were waiting for her to reach puberty.

What are the signs of puberty:

The generally considered sign of puberty is Mensuration. However like discussed before what if 'The mensuration is signifcantly delayed' or what if a girl losses all hope of mensuration'.

In that case there are other things which are a sign of having reached ‘majority/ puberty’ in islam. These signs are:

1. Wet dreams:
2. breasts and public hair and
3. According to many scholars the age of 15 years. (Imam Malik, May Allah be pleased with him, was one of them).

Evidence for these signs can be found in the Tafsir of verse 4: 6 by Ibn Kathir and other hadiths.

Tafsir of verse 4:6 'Tafsir Ibn Kathir'

And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

Allah said,

(And test orphans) meaning, test their intelligence, as Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan stated.

(until they reach the age of marriage), the age of puberty, according to Mujahid. The age of puberty according to the majority of scholars comes when the child has a wet dream. In his Sunan, Abu Dawud recorded that `Ali said, "I memorized these words from the Messenger of Allah ,

(There is no orphan after the age of puberty nor vowing to be silent throughout the day to the night.) In another Hadith, `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, and other Companions said that the Prophet said,

(The pen does not record the deeds of three persons: the child until the age of puberty, the sleeping person until waking up, and the senile until sane.) Or, the age of fifteen is considered the age of adolescence.

In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Ibn `Umar said, "I was presented in front of the Prophet on the eve of the battle of Uhud, while I was fourteen years of age, and he did not allow me to take part in that battle. But I was presented in front of him on the eve of the battle of Al-Khandaq (The Trench) when I was fifteen years old, and he allowed me (to join that battle).'' `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz commented when this Hadith reached him, "This is the difference between a child and an adult.''

There is a difference of opinion over whether pubic hair is considered a sign of adulthood, and the correct opinion is that it is. The Sunnah supports this view, according to a Hadith collected by Imam Ahmad from `Atiyah Al-Qurazi who said, We were presented to the Prophet on the day of Qurizah, whoever had pubic hair was killed, whoever did not was left free to go, I was one of those who did not, so I was left free.'' The Four Sunan compilers also recorded similar to it. At-Tirmidhi said, "Hasan Sahih.'' Allah's statement,

Other Hadiths;

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67

The Prophet said: “A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission “


To Sum up:

The consummation of marriage in islam can only occur when a girl has reached puberty. Therefore a girl who has not yet had her first menstrual period, can only consummate marriage prior to menstruation when she has reached majority/puberty trough other ways. These others ways are: having a wet dream, having already public hair, breasts or reaching the age of 15 years. The fact that a girl can consummate marriage at the onset of her puberty, does not mean that girls have to marry at this age. It’s only an option.

Other issues to consider:

Marriage at the onset of puberty, if she and her parents are sure that there would be no harm in it for her to marry and consummate her marriage, since the prophet said:

The Prophet said: “There shall be no infliction of harm on oneself or others" (Ibn Majah and Ahmad).

AND ALLAH SWT KNOWS BEST.

:wasalam:

:salam2: and :jazak: brother, your post answered my question.
well, I knew that this MUST have a good explanation and keeping anything which makes you uncomfortable uncleared is a danger since shaytaan is constantly searching for a place to get in.alhamdhulillah all my worres about how those three can be together is gone now.mashaALLAH I still beleived in each of it even when I could not understand it fully.alhamdhulillah.
about the situation mentioned in this ayah, I am surprised i forgot about the girls who have delayed menses, and about the hermaphrodites and pseudohermaphrodites as I have very specifically once cleared about the ruling on them to get married. subhanallah how can O forget that, but still I forgot about this situation and was only thinking about young immature girls only.
again jazzakALLAh khair for the detailed clarification you provided.
p.s.Pls pray for me as I think my memory is getting weak, may be I've got too much to handle at the moment.pls do pray for me.
:wasalam:
 

IbnAdam77

Travelling towards my grave.
assalam 'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

Subuhaanallah where is my earlier post's rest? I could not see anything I have contributed and that is really a long one too. Lots of work but cannot see now.:(:SMILY23:

Sister please do not think I did not try to help. I did. But cannot see anything I HAVE POSTED there after quoting your words.

Also note that yesterday also I have tried a lot of times to post in this thread, but could not. If that had worked, I would be the first to reply here. I really dont know what has happened.

wassalam 'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
 
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