The cattle

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vegangoth

Banned
So in the Koran there is a passage that says this " And off the catttle ( he produceth) some for burden, some for food.Eat of that which Allah has bestowed upon you and follow not the footsteps of the devil, fo lo he is an open foe to you. (6:142)

My question is does this mean that Muslims can't be vegitarians/vegans? I know it sounds a dumb question but I'm curious as it sounds to me, bearing in mind I have had no tutoring in reading the Koran, that to no eat animals would be siding with the devil.
 

vegangoth

Banned
I believe in compassion for all living beings. I wouldn't murder a human to eat him so why should I kill ( or be a party in) killing a cow.
 

Munawar

Striving for Paradise
:salam2:
Here is the translation and explanation of the verse 6:142. Hope it will help.

(6:142) And of the cattle (He has reared) some for burden, and some whose flesh you eat and whose skins and hair you use to spread the ground. *1 Eat of the sustenance Allah has provided you and do not follow in the footsteps of Satan, for surely he is your open enemy. *2

*1. The word "Farasha" (which means 'to spread, to pave, to cover the ground, floor or path') has been used in the context of cattle either (1) because they are relatively short, and in moving about seem to be touching the ground, (2) because when they are slaughtered, they have to be laid on the ground, or (3) because their skins and hair are used for furnishing purposes.

*2. It becomes clear from the context that God wants to emphasize three things. First, that the orchards, fields and cattle are all bounties of God. No one else has made any contribution to them and hence no one is entitled to any share in the thanks that man ought to give Him in return for these bounties. Second, since all those things are bounties of God, one ought to follow the laws of God alone while making use of them. No one else has the right to regulate their use. To acknowledge oneself bound by customs and practices laid down by others than God, and to make offerings out of a feeling of gratitude for beneficence to someone other than God constitute acts of rebellion and amount to following Satan. Third, as God has created all these things for the fulfilment of man's needs, they should not be unnecessarily suspended from use or be regarded as prohibited. All restrictions on the use of the means of sustenance and other bounties of God based on conjecture or superstition, are not to His liking at all.

:wasalam:
 

vegangoth

Banned
Awesome that does help thank you.

Another question, why does the quote you used differ from mine? Is the koran only unadulterarted in it's pure arabic version?
 

*Jasmine*

Junior Member
good answers brothers . why it would be closed let her ask . you know what dear Vegangoth ? i dont know why i have this feeling that i will congratulate you really soon for being a muslim . strong feeling i have there believe me
 

vegangoth

Banned
what are plants ?

are plants a died being ?

may Allah subhanahu wa taala guid all of us .

this thread is closed.

We need to eat so surely the best way to do this is in the most copmassionate way possible. And since plants do not have a central nervous system and do not feel pain. plants are the way to go. That is one question that bugs all vegans lol
 

vegangoth

Banned
good answers brothers . why it would be closed let her ask . you know what dear Vegangoth ? i dont know why i have this feeling that i will congratulate you really soon for being a muslim . strong feeling i have there believe me

I get the feeling that some people on this forum just want to close threads they don't personally like. There big bullies that's all they are lol

Don't throw me a party just yet lol.
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
:salam2:

The Halal Slaughter Controversy:
Do Animal Rights activists protect the sheep or the Butcher?
S.M Bleher

Islamic Halal slaughter has increasingly come under attack from animal rights activists telling tales of barbaric blood-thirsty ritual slaughter. There are two distinct issues: there is the vegetarian agenda which wants to ban all consumption of animal products, and there is the animal rights lobby which argues for a humane method of slaughter.

Do animals have rights?

The vegetarian argument is that killing animals for the benefit of humans is cruel and an infringement of their rights. They put both on the same level without conceding any superiority to humans over animals. This argument is seriously flawed, because if animals had rights comparable to those of humans, they must also have equivalent duties. In other words, we must be able to blame them and punish them if they violate the rights of others. It is absurd that it should be considered a crime for humans to kill a sheep, but natural for a lion to do so. The problem stems from a misconception of the role of human life within the animal kingdom: a denial of purposeful creation within a clearly defined hierarchy degrades humans to the level of any other creature. Yet even then, the argument is illogical: Why should plants, for example, be denied the same protection from a violation of the sanctity of their life?

Is Islamic slaughter cruel?

The question of how an animal should be slaughtered to avoid cruelty is a different one. It is true that when the blood flows from the throat of an animal it looks violent, but just because meat is now bought neatly and hygienically packaged on supermarket shelves does not mean the animal didn’t have to die? Non-Islamic slaughter methods dictate that the animal should be rendered unconscious before slaughter. This is usually achieved by stunning or electrocution. Is it less painful to shoot a bolt into a sheep’s brain or to ring a chicken’s neck than to slit its throat? To watch the procedure does not objectively tell us what the animal feels.

The scientific facts

A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.

The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.

The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.

Appearances can deceive

Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want to outlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals for food, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those of the animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makes mass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceive himself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanly wrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the other hand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have to die, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with a minimum amount of pain.

The holistic view

Islam is a balanced way of life. For Muslims, the privilege of supplementing their diet with animal protein implies a duty to animal welfare, both during the rearing of the animal and during the slaughter. Modern Western farming and slaughter, on the other hand, aims at the mass consumer market and treats the animal as a commodity. Just as battery hens are easier for large-scale egg production, Western slaughter methods are easier for the meat industry, but they do neither the animal nor the end consumer any favours. The Islamic way guarantees a healthier life for the animal and a healthier meat for the consumer.

:wasalam:
 

*Jasmine*

Junior Member
I get the feeling that some people on this forum just want to close threads they don't personally like. There big bullies that's all they are lol

Don't throw me a party just yet lol.

and i can see you are taking it so personally come on TAKE IT EASY and try to enjoy reading more threads here than just yours .
anyway i wish you have a good time but you wont if you just keep reading and writing in your own threads only . dont you think?
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
:salam2:

A number of studies have shown that plants feel pain, and vegetables are picked and often eaten while still alive.

Just beacuse some Jelly fish don't have eyes as we as we think of them, does not mean they don't see. So just because plants don't have a nervous system does not mean they don't feel pain.

:wasalam:
 

vegangoth

Banned
:salam2:

The Halal Slaughter Controversy:
Do Animal Rights activists protect the sheep or the Butcher?
S.M Bleher


Islamic Halal slaughter has increasingly come under attack from animal rights activists telling tales of barbaric blood-thirsty ritual slaughter. There are two distinct issues: there is the vegetarian agenda which wants to ban all consumption of animal products, and there is the animal rights lobby which argues for a humane method of slaughter.


Do animals have rights?

The vegetarian argument is that killing animals for the benefit of humans is cruel and an infringement of their rights. They put both on the same level without conceding any superiority to humans over animals. This argument is seriously flawed, because if animals had rights comparable to those of humans, they must also have equivalent duties. In other words, we must be able to blame them and punish them if they violate the rights of others. It is absurd that it should be considered a crime for humans to kill a sheep, but natural for a lion to do so. The problem stems from a misconception of the role of human life within the animal kingdom: a denial of purposeful creation within a clearly defined hierarchy degrades humans to the level of any other creature. Yet even then, the argument is illogical: Why should plants, for example, be denied the same protection from a violation of the sanctity of their life?


Is Islamic slaughter cruel?

The question of how an animal should be slaughtered to avoid cruelty is a different one. It is true that when the blood flows from the throat of an animal it looks violent, but just because meat is now bought neatly and hygienically packaged on supermarket shelves does not mean the animal didn’t have to die? Non-Islamic slaughter methods dictate that the animal should be rendered unconscious before slaughter. This is usually achieved by stunning or electrocution. Is it less painful to shoot a bolt into a sheep’s brain or to ring a chicken’s neck than to slit its throat? To watch the procedure does not objectively tell us what the animal feels.


The scientific facts

A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.


The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.


Appearances can deceive

Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want to outlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals for food, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those of the animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makes mass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceive himself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanly wrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the other hand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have to die, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with a minimum amount of pain.


The holistic view

Islam is a balanced way of life. For Muslims, the privilege of supplementing their diet with animal protein implies a duty to animal welfare, both during the rearing of the animal and during the slaughter. Modern Western farming and slaughter, on the other hand, aims at the mass consumer market and treats the animal as a commodity. Just as battery hens are easier for large-scale egg production, Western slaughter methods are easier for the meat industry, but they do neither the animal nor the end consumer any favours. The Islamic way guarantees a healthier life for the animal and a healthier meat for the consumer.

:wasalam:

Thank for taking the time to post that.

But how can you still justify murder? Cow's are widely know to have the intelligance of a 3 year old human. But if I told you to eat a toddler you would tell me in no uncertain terms to go way.

Many Muslims are against the practise of ritual slaughter, they say the most halal way to eat is a vegitarian diet. Cheakc out this webiste by PETA, yes they have a retuaton for being a bit nuts, but this site it full of info
http://www.islamicconcerns.com/default.asp
 

vegangoth

Banned
and i can see you are taking it so personally come on TAKE IT EASY and try to enjoy reading more threads here than just yours .
anyway i wish you have a good time but you wont if you just keep reading and writing in your own threads only . dont you think?

I've been reading other thread but a lot of the time Arabic is used ( not for the whole post) and I don't undertand what the heck is going on. And I can't keep aksing what does that mean? lol after all some people here get a bit shouty when I aks a question lol
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
Thank for taking the time to post that.

But how can you still justify murder? Cow's are widely know to have the intelligance of a 3 year old human. But if I told you to eat a toddler you would tell me in no uncertain terms to go way.

Many Muslims are against the practise of ritual slaughter, they say the most halal way to eat is a vegitarian diet. Cheakc out this webiste by PETA, yes they have a retuaton for being a bit nuts, but this site it full of info
http://www.islamicconcerns.com/default.asp

:salam2:

It has been scientifically proven that when animal is slaughtered in the Halal slaughter manner, than it does not feel pain. It is the same study/reseach that the German govt, cites when it allows Halal slaughter in Germany.

I can give you names of atleast 3 other Non-Muslims scientist that have confirmed this.

Let me quote the article again;

Do animals have rights?

The vegetarian argument is that killing animals for the benefit of humans is cruel and an infringement of their rights. They put both on the same level without conceding any superiority to humans over animals. This argument is seriously flawed, because if animals had rights comparable to those of humans, they must also have equivalent duties. In other words, we must be able to blame them and punish them if they violate the rights of others. It is absurd that it should be considered a crime for humans to kill a sheep, but natural for a lion to do so. The problem stems from a misconception of the role of human life within the animal kingdom: a denial of purposeful creation within a clearly defined hierarchy degrades humans to the level of any other creature. Yet even then, the argument is illogical: Why should plants, for example, be denied the same protection from a violation of the sanctity of their life?

A number of studies have shown that plants feel pain, and vegetables are picked and often eaten while still alive. Just beacuse some Jelly fish don't have eyes as we as we think of them, does not mean they don't see. So just because plants don't have a nervous system does not mean they don't feel pain.

:wasalam:
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
I've been reading other thread but a lot of the time Arabic is used ( not for the whole post) and I don't undertand what the heck is going on. And I can't keep aksing what does that mean? lol after all some people here get a bit shouty when I aks a question lol


:salam2:

There are many brothers and sister who are here to answer your questions, so keep posting them.
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
:salam2:

Oh by the way, you can very well be a Muslim and a vegetarian. Islam only allows taking the life of animal for eating purposes, taking the life of animal for any other purpose than to eat is haram (unlawful).
 
Salaam,

Some vegetarians are naive, especially when they want to others to follow their ideology. Here is the logic:

Different regions and lands in the world has different enivornments. Some countries have poor natural environments & even whether climates (extremely hot to extremely cold), and not enough (or poor) conditioned trees and plants to eat - so being a vegetarian would be hard a lifestyle and probably unhealthy. Not every land in the world has abundant plants (or animals) to eat, there could be scarce quantity for everyone in the population. Some lands in the world are infested with animals to eat so it's easier to be a carnivore and some have neither.

If people focus & reflect on the bigger picture instead of just their own, well natured environment they would understand that it's not possible for every single human being to be a vegetarian; especially if a country is facing turmoil and war.
 

Munawar

Striving for Paradise
Awesome that does help thank you.

Another question, why does the quote you used differ from mine? Is the koran only unadulterarted in it's pure arabic version?

:salam2: Assalam-o-alikum,

Yes Sister !!!

Quran is pure and totally unadulterated only in Arabic!

Because suppose I translate and you translate the Holy Quran. I am sure my translation will be different than yours because you will most likely have used different choices of words than mine. But the (Arabic) Quran is the one which was revealed to Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and since then it has remained pure and unadulterated.

As far as being vegetarian is concerned... there is no compulsion in Islam to eat meat. One can be a true Muslim and a vegetarian at the same time.

As far as feelings are concerned, modern science have shown that plants also feel pain and they scream & cry too except that their scream & cry cannot be heard by us. Plants can feel love too... people who have studied the plants say that if you pat or stroke plants they respond. There are flesh and insect eating plants who have sensory nerves and they close their leaves (which look like traps) when they sense an insect or small animal on them. So plants have some kind of nervous system too.

Next time when you munch on vegetables then think about it that you are eating these poor things while they are still alive and screaming and crying. :)

:wasalam: Wassalam.
 
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