Ban preachers of hate?

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vegangoth

Banned
Should countries that have Islamic radical fundamentalists preaching hate and distorting the Koran be banned from preaching? I'm thinking of the british preacher Anjem Choudery as an example. He ( to my mind) gives Muslims a bad name as he has called for the assasination of the pope, he has said that the only innocent people are those that are muslim, he's called for the flogging of those that drink alcholol, the stoning of gays. He has said the Islam is not relgion of peace but a religon of submisson. He wants every woman to wear a burkha.

Do you think he is taking things too far?
 

~Ali_

Fixing da foundation
Peace be upon you Vegangoth,
You got to admit it, if the punishments were alot harsher people wouldn't do rape, murder or theft.

Anywho thats just my 2-cents, InshAllah someone can expand on it throughly and give you a decent reply :)
 

allah is with me

Rabana Wa laqal Hamd
Peace be upon you Vegangoth,
You got to admit it, if the punishments were alot harsher people wouldn't do rape, murder or theft.

Anywho thats just my 2-cents, InshAllah someone can expand on it throughly and give you a decent reply :)

yes brother your right....
i agree
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Islam is a relgion of peace which can be achieved through submssion to the creator Allah swt who is the peace and the giver of peace but for sure this can not be taught in an agressive manner: Some times people tell the Truth but in unacceptable tone

3:159 It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).
Translation of the meanings of Quran
 

vegangoth

Banned
Peace be upon you Vegangoth,
You got to admit it, if the punishments were alot harsher people wouldn't do rape, murder or theft.

Anywho thats just my 2-cents, InshAllah someone can expand on it throughly and give you a decent reply :)

That is so not answering my question lol
 

vegangoth

Banned
Islam is a relgion of peace which can be achieved through submssion to the creator Allah swt who is the peace and the giver of peace but for sure this can not be taught in an agressive manner: Some times people tell the Truth but in unacceptable tone

3:159 It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).
Translation of the meanings of Quran

Yes but should they be banned? Is calling for the assasination of the pope aceptible in Islam?[
 

BigAk

Junior Member
Yes but should they be banned? Is calling for the assasination of the pope aceptible in Islam?[

Calling for assasinating the pope solves no problems for the Muslims, but rather complictes the issues totally for us Muslims. I am not sure why he's calling for that, but I would like to know the reason before I pass any judgement. Do you happen to know why???

.
 

muslimeen1989

Junior Member
I agree some of his statement may be seen as taking it too far but Islam is a religion of submission and peace but we only submit to Allah commands and what the Prophet (saw) was ordered with.
As for assassinating the pope this was not done in the time of the Prophet (saw) he lived along side people of other religions and taught us to be respectful to others beliefs but what we have is the truth doesn't mean we kill every pope or rabbi etc. To them be their way and to us be ours...
 

A Kashmiri

Junior Member
When you say hate speech what does that mean ?

If a muslim preacher asks for murder of pope who says stupid things about our beloved prophet and doesnt stand for a dialogue when a muslim scholar (Dr Zakir Naik) challanges him for a debate on what he said ( As he would be exposed how much hatred he has got in his hearth and how shallow is his knowledge) then there it is right to call for his murder as we muslim can stand being killed without any crime but we cant bear false speeches full of hate against our prophet Mohammed - who indeed was the messenger of Mercy for whole human kind. If calling for a killing of a criminal is hate speech then they should do that.

Regarding many of the things - like killing people who do rape/ stonning death to gays etc it is in Koran it is necessary while shariah law is in order. HOWEVER if some preacher in west is speaking about it to be applicable in west then it is not right, ( Anways i think if this law is followed more than 80% of western population has to be stonned to death).

What about hate speeches daily on the CNN , BBC, Fox by even those who dont even know their own religion against islam and muslims ? you arent speaking about it.


Bye
 

vegangoth

Banned
Calling for assasinating the pope solves no problems for the Muslims, but rather complictes the issues totally for us Muslims. I am not sure why he's calling for that, but I would like to know the reason before I pass any judgement. Do you happen to know why???

.

Seriously? You need to proof before you decide that assasination is wrong? Man that's messed up but ok The pope quoted this from a book back in 06 I can see why muslims were mad but calling for assasination is just proving the qute to be true. The quote was originally a 14th centuary byzantine emperor.

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached"
 

abu'muhammad

Junior Member
Hi vegan,

The difference between hate and positive criticism is very clear. A teacher scolding student is for the good and we all not take it as hatred. However I have not heard or read the speaker, you addressed and judgement cannot be made through a flying talk.

Alcoholism – the reasearches, sources and statistics have proven the ill and bad effects of it over the mental, physical, social well –being of people. the crime rates increases as many crimes are directly or indirectly related to alcohol. Many references can be cited on the topic.

Homo relations – even animals live according to natural aptitudes and instinct. homos have fallen beyond them and have distorted ,cut-sized nature according to their maniac tendency. Not only Islam but other religions too have no support or base to it. Those who take out gay parade, rallies or ask for such rights are upon the religion of shaytan. The wrath of God indeed descended on the earlier people who were fallen in such acts.

Hijab / burkha –Many of the crimes of temptation, forceful relations, murders will not happen if women will dress them-selves properly. Hijab preserves women’s chastity and protection from the evils.

if the above things are implemented, than what is wrong for any country ! So many problems like above and those offshooting from them will stop. I am not talking from religion view, but as what normal men understands and what is before the eyes. Can anyone ignore the above things ?

P. S

I read some of your posts and thought to communicate.

For any society whether its islamic or unislamic, to reach to good standards it has to remove the filth from it .The one who is trying this is, correcting and cleaning it.. The society cannot improve unless it set aside all the wrongs that has within it. It will not be filthless until people try for that or initially some-one among them take such steps. And the people of it have to enjoin good and forbid evil - both side by side. With this any society has to understand the belief of God - that there is One God, no God besides Him, who has created all creatures, and it His creations. No son or daughter of Him, no partners or rivals of Him. None worthy of worship besides Him. And all are His servants - black and white, rich or poor, native or immigrant. Humans have to follow the divine religion for which God intends humans to do in reality and entirety.

The measure of progress of society is not by standards of wealth, money, assets, or gold but is by civility, good characteristics, qualities and following what God wants . Society should open the horizons and accept the truth. The humanity is in big threat, if they follow any shaytan or rival or partner besides the One true God.

Any human following any religion or set of beliefs believes in death, whether aesthetic or atheist. This is universal truth among all the religions. And it is also truth among those who have sane wisdom that there is creator of the entire creation. Mankind must worship this creator for its goodness and to stay in bliss. if one has a doubt in Islam than person should look into it, that what it teaches, commands, prohibits ; when and why ! then every reason is clear and crystal. They should take their time with intention of learning and finding truth. If anyone is in a quest than it should be taken as real quest. - no Rest till the truth is found. But if its just to dig and understand any religion according to personal set of beliefs than hardly a chance that truth is found. if anyone want to know of islam than they should Look at the qur’an teachings and the teachings of Muhammad(peace be upon him). further there is no answer for ‘show me lord’ or ‘turn water to fire’- Just examples. Understanding of subject can come with correct intentions and zeal for it.

( Non-muslims should know Muhammad ( peace be upon him) has not brought a new religion, but it is the same religion of islamic monothiesm as of all prophets. Book qur’an has events of prophets like Ibrahim, Musa, Isa, Nuh, hud and others The prophet (peace be upon him) was illiterate - not knowing how to read or write. Nor Muhammad (peace be upon him) knew the history of events that took place centuries ago. But qur’an is from the lord of mankind with guidance in it for entire mankind. It is the book that confirms the previous books and scriptures that were revealed upon the messengers. Let mankind accept the truth for there is no chance than this life.) someone should not leave the chance with ignorance, arrogance or limited horizon or set of limited beliefs that he/she might think true.

Millions of people are embracing Islam, for they find peace, serenity and contentment in it. This religion gives them complete answer of their questions and they find goodness in it. People like simplicity, moderation, humanitarianism, values and peace in heart. Like other religions there are also some people in Islam who are not upto practicing or implementing. Their deeds give wrong message to others.

Arguments and cut-sized answers will not help unless, someone truly wants to understand religion from correct perspective with tolerance.

Hope, writing should not be taken as offence which is not the intention or purpose.

take care, peace.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Seriously? You need to proof before you decide that assasination is wrong? Man that's messed up but ok The pope quoted this from a book back in 06 I can see why muslims were mad but calling for assasination is just proving the qute to be true. The quote was originally a 14th centuary byzantine emperor.

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached"

Preachers of hate should be banned yes, like the Pope himself in the above quoted statement.
 

Muslim18

Blessed Muslimah
Preachers of hate should be banned yes, like the Pope himself in the above quoted statement.

I 100% agree why isn't his hate speeches banned you cant have double standards when it comes to a certain community having hate speeches if you ban one you ban ALL no differentiating or discriminating.

Mashallah sister good point May Allah destoy All those who speak bad against our Nabi :saw: Ameen :tti_sister:

:wasalam:
 
Should countries that have Islamic radical fundamentalists preaching hate and distorting the Koran be banned from preaching? I'm thinking of the british preacher Anjem Choudery as an example. He ( to my mind) gives Muslims a bad name as he has called for the assasination of the pope, he has said that the only innocent people are those that are muslim, he's called for the flogging of those that drink alcholol, the stoning of gays. He has said the Islam is not relgion of peace but a religon of submisson. He wants every woman to wear a burkha.

Do you think he is taking things too far?

First off, "Islamic radical fundametalist" is a oxymoron. There is no such thing. Who came up with this lingo? Who is controlling your mind to repeat the words they created? I consider this as a hate speech! Stay away from Islamophobic websites and media.

Do you think Bush, Obama & the West are taking it "too far" killing millions and yes I said millions of Afghans, Iraqi's, Palestinians, Sudanese, etc? What you bring up is irrelevant because you have not acquired the Islamic knowledge (yet) to understand and just because this man has said something he has done nothing about it while the West has taken action and has killed more innocent people than any Eastern country in the past 100 years! Worse many of them go free for the murders and killing sprees they've committed. Let's get the facts straightened. Shouldn't Bush or the Pope be charged with hate speech against Muslims? Let's change the way we think and prioritize what is relevant and what is irrelevant.

Here is something I like to share with you and I hope you find it beneficial:

MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORISTS
By Dr. Zakir Naik

Question:

Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

Answer:

This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’:

1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’

A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science.

2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same

One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect.

3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist

I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.

4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’

According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes.

According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’.

Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist.

5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist

Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.

6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’

Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly.

7. Islam means peace

Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.
WAS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?

Question:

How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?

Answer:

It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

1. Islam means peace.

Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.

Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.

The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book ’Islam at the cross road’ (Page 8):

’History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.’

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.

Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia.

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, ’Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?’

8. East Coast of Africa.

Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, ’Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?’

9. Thomas Carlyle.

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book ’Heroes and Hero worship’, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: ’The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.’

10. No compulsion in religion.

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

’Let there be no compulsion in religion:
Truth stands out clear from error’
[Al-Qur’an 2:256]

11. Sword of the Intellect.

It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:

’Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord
with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are
best and most gracious.’
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.

An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.

Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?

14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.

Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says,

’People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born’
 
i remember the comments made by the pope.

hatred begets hatred. justice is about treating everyone equally:

all callers of hatred should be banned including the pope who sparked the first comment of hatred.

sounds fair?
 

vegangoth

Banned
i remember the comments made by the pope.

hatred begets hatred. justice is about treating everyone equally:

all callers of hatred should be banned including the pope who sparked the first comment of hatred.

sounds fair?

The diffrence between what the pope has said (The pope has aplogized and has said he didn't mean to cause offense and it was a wrong translation ( or someting) he was reading) and what the brit Muslim said is intention, intention makes all the diffrence regardless of religion. Of course given the catholic churches reputation in the past I woudnt be suprised if the pope did mean his comments. If that is the case then he should have been prosicuted for insiting racel hatred or something, not that being Muslim is a race but you get my point.
 

vegangoth

Banned
First off, "Islamic radical fundametalist" is a oxymoron. There is no such thing. Who came up with this lingo? Who is controlling your mind to repeat the words they created? I consider this as a hate speech! Stay away from Islamophobic websites and media.

I apologise I should have written Religious extremest.
 
his comments were particularly disturbing if you see how highly the prophet pbuh is held in the muslim's eyes. misinformation and intentional vilification of islam has been going on in the vatican for centuries ever since the arabs took back Jerusalem.

Timurlane was a muslim. Timurlane killed everyone in his path, muslim, non-muslim alike. because he was conquering territory, not spreading islam.

but Muhammad pbuh did not spread islam by the sword. that is an intentional lie because you cannot change the belief of people by threats and swords.
 

mhamzah

Junior Member
I apologise I should have written Religious extremest.[/QUOTE]

Don't you think so the pope needs to find of all have a look into Christian history, before he start to point fingers at others,
 
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