Difference in the way of thinking

[assyuara]

Assalamualaikum my dear brothers and sisters.

No offense, but im just curious why teenagers in the West (e.g. USA, London) have this thinking to convert to Islam. On the other hand, in general, teenagers i see in my place here seldom talk about religion. The topics are usually about artiste, music, movies, games and etc. And what is worrying me is that even the young muslims and the teens like to waste their time by strumming the guitar and singing at the void deck.

May Allah bring Islam to greater heights insha Allah. And I believe the day will come. Nevertheless there's a responsibility: da'wah.

So im asking for ur wise opinions and creative thoughts on how to 'switch their thinking' or factors that caused this to happen. Thanks a lot.

Wasalaam,
Aisyah. :blackhijab:

 

[ahmed_indian]

mashallah very good question.

the cause which takes muslims away from Islam is love for this world.
to be modern and fashionable you have to leave religion, and this is an extremely bad mindset.

But the solution lies is developing love for Allah and Hereafter. we have to explain about Allah's pleasure and displeasure, about pleasures of paradise and pain in Hell-Fire.

until the muslims understand this, no matter how hard you try to make them pray, fast, avoid alcohol, the result will be minimum. its my own personal experience.

and Dua's of course, because it is Allah Who guides. He is the Source, we are just channels.

PS: of 23 yrs of Quranic revelation, first 13 yrs were focused on basically just teaching mankind about Allah, Day of Judgment and Hereafter.

 

[~Ali_]

Assalamualaikum - bottom line sister if your talking about the youth of today (and yeah I got the same problem in my area) there all either

a) confused (agnostic?)
b) atheist
c) labels

so I think for all these categorys we need to explain to them that there actually IS A GOD because its no secret that everything we watch, listen to and read strongly influence us (especially the youth 13-18)

As always we start with ourselves and whenever they get curious we can tell them about Islam and once you pop! you cant stop! we can start up conversations about religion and God and stuff and try to make them actually THINK about something other then the material world.

So im asking for ur wise opinions and creative thoughts on how to 'switch their thinking' or factors that caused this to happen.

lol I dont know about my stuff being "wise opnions" but here it goes:

Factors to cause such a mess:
a) Shaytan with his tricks to make the material world look so "epic" and "awesome" with the latest gadgets, games, movies and music.

b) No one just never told these poor kids about God, and those that do want to learn or those that practiced are "looked down upon" or are "lame" - so there is also that entire peer-pressure rubbish effecting them also...

c) There is no motivation - there is no need for these kids to go look for a reason to have a "spiritual side" because life is daisys and sunshine ya'know...its filled with the latest and greatest.

Bottom line - Distractions and Discouragement.

Ways to "switch their thinking":

a) Practice Islam - FULLY not portions of it... how else did Islam spread in the first place?

b) Attempt to steer discussions among your close friends to this "cool article/lecture" you read/heard - and perhaps you could actually describe what was in it, and take it from their...

c) Pay close attention to people - there are some that would love to "know more" but are afraid of being "lame" and "uncool" pick them out and hang out with them and try the same tactic as (b) - because once you "ignite" a dicussion you can talk for a while and stop - then pick up where you left off the next time you meet with some source material for them to look into

I saw a little "billboard" the other day near a church.. it said:
"IF GOD DID EXIST, WHAT WOULD YOU ASK?"

Thinking about it right now... that seems like a good conversation starter ya'know

d) and ofcourse make DUA the ultimate weapon you hold - use it wisely - I mean seriously how many of us (including myself) get up in the middle of the night just so we can pray to Allah to guide that non-muslim (or muslim) to the Straight Path?

O well thats my 2 cents...

 

[assyuara]

Syukran

Assalamualaikum

I want to say thank you and alfa syukran to both brother ahmed_indian and brother Ali for your replies.

Yes, the most important thing of all is aqeedah. And yah, i think you are right bro Ali..why not we just pop in and start off a conversation abt Islam, and existance of the One and True God, Allah. And this need hikmah..converse with wisdom. If each and everyone of us take part in conveying a message even a sentence insha Allah we will rise up! Yup, du'a is a weapon for us, Muslims. May Allah always protect our hearts at all times.

Wasalaam,
Aisyah :blackhijab:

 

[abdullahinislam]

assalam 3lykom okht

I saw a similar issue in Pakistan when I was there 2 years ago. I was standing there (29 yrs old but look maybe 22 lol) in shalwar kamees, kufi and a beard. We went to the largest salt mine in the world and there, were many school groups from local towns in Pak - I was amazed that 95% of the children, male and female looked like kids from my local home town in the UK. None of the girls wore Hijab and they all were wearing western clothes.

It was quite a culture shock for me as I was always with people who dressed like and lived like Muslims but to then see this change.

A few days later I talked to the son of a friend there, his opinion was that the west was the 'cool' place and the role model to asipre to, he was maybe 16 yrs old and wantting to go study in the UK.

What shocked me about it was that he seemed to have no, completly no focus on Islam at all, it was all about study and good jobs, etc.

Insha Allah after speaking with him, maybe a little seed was planted to remind him to look... "I am from the place you perceive as your role model and I am running away from it toward Islam. Why am I running away from what you run toward?"

Who knows what will happen, anyway, not sure if this reply has any benefit but I thought I would share it none the less.

Allah hafiz

 

[safiya58]

:salam2:

mashaallah sister a really good question.

when there are many ppl who don´t care about Islam in a muslim country, then surelly there are also some serious pious muslims even when they are in the minorrity. my advise would be to look for them.. maybe in your family... maybe in mesjids... maybe in school, work whereever, and to unite with them... why not cooporate in giving dawa to the ppl and gain Allah´s pleasure inshaallah.... then you guys can put your dawa-ideas together and start... maybee work in two groups, male and female. you can organize meetings where all the young pll in one neigherhood for example are invited, and talk about an islamic topic (for example yauwm el qiyama, life after death, purpose of life, etc) you can also talk to the ppl in the street... yani ask them directly what they think about Allah...? I also like what brother Ali said: "IF GOD DID EXIST, WHAT WOULD YOU ASK?"
If you don´t have much knowledge you can also spread lectures from schoolars there are many possibilities but i think the most important thing is that the muslims should unite and cooperate in giving dawa

 

[AyeshaL]

Salaams everyone,

I converted when I was 24...and before that I guess I had the lifestyle that you mentioned in your question. Perhaps this is the lifestyle others emulate - and I was emulating myself from getting swept along in the scene. But it was starting to dawn on me a few months before looking into Islam that this was all just hype. Why was a constantly chasing for something more, why was I so consumed with how I looked and if I knew the latest hip hop track? For years I had pushed the issues surrounding spirituality aside but I was aware thats what I was doing. I struggled to reconnect to the church but I didnt seem to fit anymore, the answers it gave to my questions didnt sit right with me. Then I started to explore Islam and everything just 'made sense' - it was rational and it was a beacon of light shining towards me. I had to shed a lot of my old life (or run away from it as mentioned!) but the peace of mind and security in knowing you've found the truth is incredible. Even if I havent got it all right I am still confident that I'm on the right path. People always muck it up - Muslims fall short of what Islam asks of us all the time and it can make you feel quite disillusioned but whenever I am confused I just concentrate on the main messages of Islam and the ease that fills me with...well its indescribable and no amount of alcohol or nights out will ever tempt me to exchange it.

Maybe we would benefit from remembering those main messages - I'll post another thread Please look out for it

And yes - dawah is every Muslim's responsibility but its important to remember that actions speak louder than words and that if we behave the way we should, someone may wonder why So even if you're shy you can still do it!!!

 

[kayleigh]

There is a rise in religious thought everywhere, for all religions. I think teenagers are just looking for guidance and those two factors (and probably others I'm missing) combine to lead them to convert to Islam. I think they also are sick of Christianity - many of them are coming from Christian homes but stopped believing with it long ago. So they turn to studying Islam first because it is the only other religion that is so much in the news and in media. But they're still teenagers, surrounded by other teenagers and parents who listen to music. They don't have years and years of training from Muslim parents that it's wrong, and its a difficult habit to give up.

Even if they are listening to music I still think it's a wonderful thing - that's such a minor issue. We should be happy they are converting if they know what they're doing. I converted when I was 17 so I was still a teenager but I don't regret it or think it was too young.

Well, from my point of view, someone spending their time doing that, or even cleaning out the dust from between their toes, is probably spending it in a far better way than someone who spends their time looking around for people who have 'sinned', and beating them.

Why bring that up? I mean, I get your point, but seriously? You're so obviously biased and against Islam with that comment. You could have easily said it's also better than doing drugs, etc., seeing as drug use is a much bigger and wider spread problem than assault.

Your other comments are equally ridiculous.

 

[safiya58]

Hi septithol,

I´m not going to tell you anything so be relaxed. even when I would try to convince you from the opposite of what you believe ( Muslims are aggressive and are not afraid to hurt others) I don´t think you would change your mind. Cuz everybody is looking to the world with his own reality-glasses...

an experiment I read in a book about retentiveness is confirming what I say , it was during the korea-war:

a picture showing an american soldier how he is attacking with his weopon a defenceless north-korean. this picture was shown to american officer candidates. they had to regard this picture for one to two seconds. After they was asked about what they saw.... and thy said they saw a north-korean attacking a defenceless american with a weapon... the mind of the officer candidates was sorely afflicted cuz they believe that every korean is a devious opponent.

you see in media, strange ppl with long beards and turbans on their head, how they blow up theirselve, how they kill, how they beat women.. and so on and that makes you believe muslims are evil... but you can not realize that what you see is only a small proportion from the whole thing...

I don´t know if you are aware of it but not long time ago a muslim sister was killed in a german court! with 18 knife-stabs by a nazi. the police shot at her husband when he hurried to help her wife but nothing happened to the offender...! what will the muslims in muslim countires think when they hear that...? or what will they think when they see pictures from detaynees in Abu Graib showing how american soldiers having fun torturing their brothers/sisters... they will think all non- muslims are sanguinary, abominable monsters...! I want to ask you now, are they right?

We as muslims believe in Allah and love Allah. it is not bad when is having fun by singing dancing or whatever when he is a non-muslim. but when you are conviced you will die and the real life is awaiting you you should be prepared for it as a muslim..! to understand better how a muslim is thinking you can check my threa "I will die..." : http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57400

of course Allah has made it haram for us to oppress others. He our Lord, even made oppresion haram for Himself...! hadith Qutsi 17:

“‘O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another...."

to read the full hadith: http://hadithqudsi.sacredhadith.com/hadith-qudsi-17/

so when even not the All-Mighty, All-knowing God is not allowed to oppress how can his poor slaves dare to be...?

If you would really know about Islam you would know that it sets a great value upon the good treatment of ppl.

when the prophet (saw) was asked will it be rewarded by Allah to treat animals well he (saw) answered: yes, there is a reward for the good treatment of every entity. (narrated by Abu Hureyre, sahih muslim/buhari)

 

[almanar]

Assalamualaikum sister Assyuara

I have been thinking to ask the same question but you did it first. May Allah guide us.

Because Singapore and Malaysia are not far apart, I think we've seen nearly the same stories of our teenagers. I am a teenager too, but I feel so 'scared' about what's happening in my country until I feel so afraid to go back home (i'm studying oversea).

My friends who have just came back from their hometown have told me the very bad changes that are happening to muslim teenagers in our country. They do everything that is haram. Of course not all of them, but we are concerned about this. Kids not more than 12 years old commit haram things like zina, drinking alcohole and so on.. That's what happening. More worrying that they are Muslims. Their parents are Muslims.

My opinion is that: They are Muslims in their names only. May Allah guide us and them. The parents play an important role. If the parents are not concerned about the importance of religion to the mind and soul, what the kids would be?

Second opinion: Some of so-called muslims also have exposed wrong examples. Like the singers who are a bunch of muslims in their name. So when the growing teenagers are exposed to those people that have gained the popularity in the media, and with the info that they r muslims, they would think that it is nothing wrong for themselves to be like those figures.

Third opinion: The role of the leaders. The education systems that are not really concerned about the real understanding of Islam. I dont know if the same happens in SIngapore. But most of students find it is very something disturbing to study the islamic studies for their coming exam. So they are studying those knowledges to beautifying their exam result only.

Fourth opinion: The lack of da'wah. So few figures that are really work hard to convey the true message of Islam. And it's been hard because sometimes people that work in Islamic field itself also do not act like they are muslims. They work only for money, or there are no other works they can do. SO the more bad things happen when the other muslims or non-muslims see their actions.




So these are a few of my opinions. I'm not addressing this to all people in my country and yours. There are people who are working hard. I really hope that some days muslim or non-muslim teenagers will turn to Islam. The first thing is; we must equipped ourselves with knowledges, seek Allah's pleasure and mercy with worshipping Him more sincerely, work hard and be patient, and go back to our country one day, and work. Inshaallah I pray for you and me for the victory.

 

[assyuara]

Dear sis septithol

Assalamualaikum to all. May Allah’s peace and blessings be upon us all.

Well, not being a Muslim, I don't believe that music or video games are evil. However, I'll attempt to give you my opinion on why young Muslims raised in Western countries are acting in the way you describe.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Really appreciate it.

Dear sister septithol, this world is very just. Each and everyone of us has the freedom of speech. The world is a world without boundaries as any info can be spread very fast even faster than a second? Im not sure abt that. The internet, mass media and the news. Just info about everything. So we must first think and ponder upon the info before judging. Further research maybe required too. Just like what the westerners or Asians undergrads or grads with logical, critical thinking do to make themselves satisfied, I suppose. Hence, any info about any religion cant be accepted without evidence, right?

Secondly sister, I want to make this clear to you. Actually, Islam isn’t like what most ppl thinks. Islam is simply simple and flexible. No kidding! Okay let’s say your professor promised to award you 500USD if you get good grades for example. You really believed in your professor and worked super hard to excel in studies. Now let’s look into Chapter 22 Surah Al-Hajj Verse 78:

“…and He (Allah) has not laid upon you any hardship in religion...”

That is the promise of the Almighty which can be found in the Quran 1400 years ago. Same exact verse without a slight difference. SO why don’t we believe in that? Then you may ask why wear the hijaab why perform prayers 5 times a day? Well my sis, what’s so difficult in covering our heads with a piece of cloth? What’s so difficult in spending a few minutes just to focus on our 5 time-prayers? As I said Islam is easy for those who wants it easy.

Another point, Islam don’t punish ppl for listening to music. Do you have any evidence? If yes, then that’s not what Islam teaches. BUT if one listens to music and delay his prayers and to remember Allah, then that’s a problem. This is just to teach us to be disciplined and know how to set out priorities right.

Dear sis septithol again thanks for ur opinion. I apologise if what Ive expressed sincerely, without any anger nor disgust, have hurt you in any way. May Allah guide us all to His light. Insha Allah Ameen!

Wasalaam,
Aisyah. :blackhijab:

 

[safiya58]

Thing is, most people LIKE to have fun. Muslims raised in western countries are probably making a choice between 2 fundamentally different ways of viewing religion:

1. The non-Muslim way of religious thinking: They can have fun, and still go to heaven, so long as they do not hurt other people.
2. The Muslim way of thinking: They can hurt other people, and still go to heaven, as long as they do not have any fun themselves.

but what if the "good guys" (those who belong to category 1) turn to "bad guys"............:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48414

 

[abdullahinislam]

However, this does not change the validity of what I said. I do not regard such things as music and sex as evil, and the arguments (which are in fairness made by other religions besides Islam) that such things are evil are NOT very convincing. They are not very convincing, because they boil down to 'music is evil because God said so'. However, this is not convincing, because no evidence is provided that the God in question actually exists, or that the God in question, if he DOES exist, actually believes music to be evil. Even if you assume for the sake of argument that God exists, and he believes music to be evil, it still is not a very convincing argument, because God does not give a reason why it is evil other than "I'm God and I say so!" That is not a convincing argument coming from anyone, not even from God.
QUOTE]


Hi there - All I can give is my opinion but I hope it might motivate your thinking, if nothing else. I am a revert from about 3 years ago and I had trouble with the thought that Music is haram. I loved music and it was probably part of my daily life and I could not understand the logic behind this. I am a logical beast and try to therefor analyze things in this manner.

By the way, I too agree that Music and Sex 'can' be evil, it depends on how each are implemented and the purpiose behind them.

I guess the way I now view it after many hours contemplating, in hindsight, is thus:

Music is a direct input in to the senses and emotions, i.e, you hear music and it stimulates your thinking - when you have a bad day, you listen to your favorite song and it seemingly makes you feel a little better, even for the short term. Another example is when you are in 'love' - you listen to your favorite love song, or a song that you define as 'your (both of you) song' and it reminds you of that person to whom you have affection. perhaps your wife is away soemwhere for some reason and it reminds you of a special day, of a certain moment in time, etc.

Thus, Music has a direct effect on your emotions, conciously or subconciously because of the way your brain deals with inputs. So by allowing this influence enter your mind unfiltered, whether the music be 'positive and clean' or 'negative and dirty', it, for certain, influences your state of being in both the short and long term.

The problem we have with music is that it not only stimulates your mind and emotions, it also has this direct input to your sub/concious, nd thus, if the music is used for unclean situations or has unclean or stimulating lyrics, it can influence your decisions. I could perhaps expand on this topicbut I think this small amount sufices....

Regarding the sex issue, here is how I see it, and let us for the time being keep 'God' out of it, whom you may or not believe in. So lets analyze it in a basic format.

Sex is soemthing that we are taught as children is what 'grown up's' do, thus from a young age we are socially moulded in to assuming that, whether you accept it or not, subconciously our brain assumes that to be a 'grown up' and act 'mature' you must have sex. You may agree or disagree, but it is a fact.

Of course it is also an animal instinct in all reproductive organisms, however lets leave the animal nature aside for the moment.

So firstly, we are conditioned from a young age that 'gown up's;' have sex, and logically, all youngsters aspire to seem, or be, grown up. Thus we fall in to the first trap.

Secondly, we mix freely with the opposite sex whether you chose to or not. School, transport, the media all influence us in this area. We are forced to be around the opposite sex, and due to mans inclination to women, he is obviously having his desires constantly massaged without any form of restriction, other than self inflicted moral.

Thirdly, the media bombards us with all these images of semi-nude people advertising products, in movies and TV programs, even in newspapers - there is no escape from the sexual socienty.

Constantly we are beinig told abotu sex, sexyness, sexuality and all these things.

Now, when mans animal instinct, which has a natural bias toward reproduction kicks in, we are almost automatically driven toward a sexual desire - fine - however, these are ther things that drive peopel to rape, create babies and leave the woman after the fact and lets not forget the transmittance and sharing of sexual diseases.

Now I agree that a sexual relationship may not seem evil in of itself, however all of theabove issues and several others enduce humans AND animals to act out their desires unchecked and so this is why we DO have these high rape, sexual assault and singal mother problems in society.

So perhaps of themselves, Music and Sex are not evil, however if they are allowed to be used and abuused in an uncontrolled manner (which religion IMO tries to enforce) then we open ourselves up to these potential evils.

Allah knows best and may he forgive any errors in what I say.

Peace.

 

[abdullahinislam]

I just want to add an analogy to this:

Assume you have a favorite song and you dont care about sex outside marriage. You have the TV on some movie station and you hear this favorite song from the other room. The chances of you goign through to see it may be hightened. You go through and along with the music is a sex scene on the TV.

It in turn may influence your sexual desire to go and commit fornication, look at *!*!*!*! or think of sexual things.

You may then be arroused when you are going out due to that simple thing and thus may sleep with a girl, have a one night stand and never see her again. All along, she gets pregnant and you get a sexual disease out of it.

Now it WILL seem evil. Image this happens to your child, IT WILL 100% seem evil.

A poor analogy but it serves the purpose to show how these things could becoem evil.

This is why Allah in his great wisdom tells us to avoid these things, because unlike humans who dont fully understand how the mind, concious and subconcious works and influences us, we are hopefully safeguarded from these situations.

Peace.

 

[Al Salafi]

salamu alaikum

islam is the complete perfect way of life which has no comparisson in its teaching, when truth appears falsehood disappears due to its nature falsehood is bound to disappear.

but on your topic i personally think it is because muslim people living in the west have no reason to live hear except for seven reasons, one of which is to give dawah to non muslims, this a fard al ayn if not one group of people in the whole community give dawah then the whole community is held accountable this is a sin on the community simmilarity to the janaza prayer, any ways it should be noted that all muslims in th west should make hijrah (migration) if they do not fall into the category of the seven reasons to live in the mostly predominantly crishtian atheist based state.

wa alaikum asalam

 

[IHearIslam]

There is a question I think that you, as Muslims, need to ask yourself. Are you willing to let other people believe what they wish, in exchange for them allowing you to believe what YOU wish? Even if you disagree with what they believe, or think there is a special reason, such as their being a relative or even child of yours, why they should beleive Islam?

If you will not let other people believe what they wish, they are not going to let you believe what YOU wish. Also, it may be a form of arrogance to think that you should decide what other people believe. I think that religion is like eyeglasses. Eyeglasses help you see objects, and religion helps you to see God. But to think everyone should believe the same religion is like thinking everyone should have the same prescription for eyeglasses. That is just silly. I, being nearsighted, would not have the same sort of eyeglasses at all as someone who is farsighted. God may have good a reason for different people believing in him in different ways. Even if those ways seem strange to you, they may make very good sense to God, or to the people who beleive them. Just as, even though eyeglasses for farsighted people make my own vision worse, does not mean those glasses do not make the vision better for the people who are farsighted.

Hello
YES indeeed
read please:
In the name of Allah the most gracious most merciful
1. Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2."I worship not that which you worship"
3."And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
4."Nor will you worship that which I worship.
5."To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
Peace out!

 

[~Ali_]

Well, not being a Muslim, I don't believe that music or video games are evil. However, I'll attempt to give you my opinion on why young Muslims raised in Western countries are acting in the way you describe.

Peace be upon you septithol, long time no see lol
You are entitled to your own opinion I guess...
But I wanna reply back to a few points

First one off -

Well, not being a Muslim, I don't believe that music or video games are evil.

I never said they were evil - a distraction is a better suited word.
If your sitting a test and you got these little kids in front of you making ALOT of noise... I'm pretty sure you wont call them "evil" - their distracting you from the task at hand, the task that needs your utmost attention...

So me on a personal level.. I don't call music or video games EVIL.

Well, from my point of view, someone spending their time doing that, or even cleaning out the dust from between their toes, is probably spending it in a far better way than someone who spends their time looking around for people who have 'sinned', and beating them.

I am a Muslim... and I don't go around beating people... thats like saying all the people that don't believe in God are all "Gays" and "Homos" - don't get spoon fed by the media...

This is what a Christian theologian would call a 'Manichean Heresy'. Which is a sort of heresy that refers to the mistaken belief that the Devil is more powerful than God. Since God created the universe, and the physical laws that exist, I presume, that God being intelligent, realizes what is and is not possible with those physical laws. If God disapproved completely of music, for instance, God is quite capable of having arranged the universe in such a way that sound could only exist on one frequency, thereby making music impossible.

Once more I am a Muslim, not a Christian... so don't throw me a 'Manichean Heresy' - The only thing Satan the sore loser is capable of is whispers... and sometimes we are all foolish enough to listen to his whispers..and if God wiped out all "evil" from earth - where is the test?

Oh, and btw, this entire forum about Islam would not exist, were it not for one of the 'latest gadgets', namely, the computer.

I think you misunderstood me...

By "latest gadgets" I meant people striving to get them by all means necessary and if they don't have it they feel sad and "left out" or "lame" a computer by itself is not evil... nor is the TV, nor a MP3/Ipod player....its how you use them...

The problem is, there are two types of people. Those who have a conscience (or a sense of good and evil), and those who do not. Those who do not have a conscience will either go out and commit evil acts, or if they do not commit them, will do so because they are mindlessly following some particular rule of conduct they were taught, like a trained animal.

Its more than "conscience" its just plain in your face... you wouldn't roll in a pig sty would you? .... o wait do you have a conscience, or not?

Western society is very greatly dominated by logic. Even those who often behave in an illogical fashion, are still dominated by it. Logic will eventually dominate almost ANYONE who spends any part of their childhood. Most people need some sort of reason or explanation for things that they are told, or believe. The better, or more plausible reason will eventually dominate over the weaker reason. When it comes to defining evil, for instance, the school of thought that says "Hitting someone is evil because it hurts them, and you yourself would not like to be hurt" is FAR more plausible than the school of thought that says "Music is evil because a prophet who lived hundreds of years ago said that a particular God, whose existence and opinions he failed to provide actual concrete proof of, said it was evil."

Perhaps you would like to use this logic you speak of... if something takes you away from your "main goal" and your attention is focused elsewhere.. then its a distraction which really isn't reaping you any benefits.. then why should you keep it? and I have already mentioned above that I don't use the word "evil"...distraction is more to the point.

This applies to almost ANYTHING which has supposed 'evil' qualities dependent entirely on the 'say-so' of either a God with an unproved existence, or the 'say-so' of the government. Including music, sex, video games, and a lot of other things. If nobody can provide a better reason than a 'say-so' as to WHY these things are supposedly evil, anyone raised in a country dominated by logic is likely to disbelieve that they are evil.

Reason:

Sex in our day and age... is like degradation for the women (and men)... so its just common sense... take a stroll downtown... use your "logic" or perhaps the non-muslim women of today like being treated like sex objects... ??

and Islam doesn't say sex is evil... if you have sex with your wife/husband.. you get rewarded.. so... I don't think its evil... its just whether or not its done in a dignified manner (legally in marriage).

Music, video games, movies, fictional novels.... its like they all fall down to being pretty much a waste of time.. when you can be doing far more productive things, go and ask a person who lived perhaps I dunno... 50-60 years ago? (grandparents perhaps?) Even the non-muslims would tell it to you in your face that its a waste of time.. so lol this discussion about why "MUSLIMS" think its a waste of time.. is really quite pointless since the non-muslims a couple of years back would have said the same thing, its just the people of today that are so damned spoiled (I talk about myself) that just cant apparently live without be entertained every damn minute of their life ya'know... and yes you can be entertained and have fun - but your being productive at the end of day you see....

Thing is, most people LIKE to have fun. Muslims raised in western countries are probably making a choice between 2 fundamentally different ways of viewing religion:


1. The non-Muslim way of religious thinking: They can have fun, and still go to heaven, so long as they do not hurt other people.
2. The Muslim way of thinking: They can hurt other people, and still go to heaven, as long as they do not have any fun themselves.

So your saying the atheist who doesn't believe in heaven ... can go there? or were you strictly speaking about Christians ?

Hurt other people and go to heaven? hmm.... there was a companion by the name of Sa'd ibn-Abi Waqaas and he got entry to heaven because he forgave the people every night before he went to sleep... once more dear septithol... do not get spoon fed by the media...

and
define "fun"

An awful lot of people, given this choice, are going to choose choice number one. Which to my mind, is a far more moral choice. And please don't tell me, as I am sure you are going to, that Muslims do no hurt other people. I know that it says in the Koran to treat other people well, but unfortunately when a teenager can go on You-tube and watch videos of Mullahs in muslim countries beating women in the streets, that is not a factually convincing argument.

So your saying now... that if... I go to Youtube and see I dunno.. a particular group of people.. and their doing so-and-so then.. their book (or no book) or their idealogy or their way of thinking as a community... must teach/push them to do so....

Septithol... I can point to various groups and communities and say according to Septithol's mind set that your doing this because your teachings tell you to do this... when in fact its the exact opposite... its ridiculous...its like your blaming the belief because the followers suck at following it... and the "beating of wives" and what not I think someone far more intelligible then I can get into that.

Sorry if I have said anything to hurt, that was not my intention - and you are entitled to your own opinion indeed. Inshallah (God Willing) you will find what you are looking for at TTI

 

[assyuara]

Assalamualaikum to all

Music, games and computer. All these are NOT the things that we need to AVOID or REFRAIN ourselves from using them. Rather tools such as music and computers/internet are relevant and useful materials to spread the message of Islam: which means da'wah.

And yes, as what all of us know, these tools have its pros and cons.. positive and negative points. Like what bro Ali had mention, music can be a distraction. On the other hand, i am attracted to what brother abdullahinislam mentioned abt its gd points: Music directly effects one's senses and emotions which as a whole stimulates thinking. By listening to catchy songs, we are stimulated to do our work fast..by listening to nasheeds, it can help us to bring us back to Allah..and by listening to Quran recitations, our hearts are calm like the breezy sensation when we walking by the seaside in the morning. I'm certain that there are scientific studies to prove this. The important point to take note is HOW we control these.

To Brother Al-Salafi: You mentioned about 'the 7 reasons'. can i know what are those reasons..all 7. thanks.

To sis almanar: yes sis. we have the problem with our youths..our generation. We really need to do something..or rather we must! insha Allah sis we can contribute to help them. especially those who like to 'lepak' and there are more serious problems than that. as you've said, even the young ones start to pick up this bad culture.

May Allah guide us all and help us in da'wah. Ameen..

Wasalaam,
Aisyah. :blackhijab:

 

[Abdul Hasib]

Assalamu Alaaa al Mumineen, wa Rahmatullahi, Wa Barakaathuh (Peace, Blessings, and Mercy be upon the Beleivers).


To all of Sepithol's comments and rude remarks, Pah, I think this is going to be a VERY funny battle (of the minds).

For one thing, you try saying that Muslims think that it's alright to "can hurt other people, and still go to heaven, as long as they do not have any fun themselves" and that "music and sex is evil," and "why should Muslim children be raised to beleive in Islam," right?

Well, let me tell you a FEW good points to make out:

"can hurt other people, and still go to heaven, as long as they do not have any fun themselves."

In Islam, a person can NOT hurt another person, and the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ENFORCED this extremely during his time (and so did his righteous companions). If a person committed murder, then the murder MUST be executed, BECAUSE: he took the life away from an innocent person (and do NOT try to associate Islamic Combat Fighting with murdering, because a Muslim can NOT kill or fight anyone when they have been victorious, and mind YOU, in Islamic Warfare, the Muslims MUST treat the prisoners of war with CARE), and the second reason is because THAT is the way that their sin is forgiven, that THEY must go through punishment so that THEY understand how the person they killed felt, and THEN there's a chance for them to be forgiven by God ().

"music and sex is evil"


Not neccessarily. MUSIC in Islam is NOT really evil, it is "just" a SIN, and why? Because music fills a person's mind, the lyrics, the beat, and everything else. And? It causes a person to FORGET God, because their head gets SO filled up with this that it is HARD to remember God when they are praying or throughout the day (and this problem ONLY exists in Muslims BY THE WAY).

Sex is evil? Only when it is done OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE, and SINCE you are a female, I'LL tell you from what I know about that stuff.

You see, I WAS a boy before (I'm a male now, but became more mature in my mind than all the other boys and guys), and before, I wouldn't really practice Islam (just pray close to 5x a day, fast, and a few other stuff, but I would indulge in the stuff my peers were in), and so you know what happens when you go to Junior Highschool in a public school? Yep, you start getting into GIRLS (if you're a boy), and I PROMISE in God's name, that I NEVER EVER felt happy when I would have a whole bunch of girls around me, and "trying" to act like (what boys tried to call me), a "playa" (< and NO I didn't go out with girls either, it just looked like I "could attract them" even though my appearance at that time was bleh...), and going around acting like a stupid fool. And I PROMISE in God's name that the ONLY time in my life that I EVER felt happy was when I had LEFT that life BEHIND me, and TRIED HARD to GET TO OBEYING HIM, because THAT is what REALLY gave me Peace, Serenity, and BLISS in my heart.



But anyway, LIKE I WAS SAYING, after I came back to practicing Islam (and being REALLY differant, from wearing saggin pants and t-shirts, to wearing a Kufi, formal clothes, and trying my best to show good manners and respect to people, and not only that, but I also wanted to have a bit of compassion to people too), I REALLY understood about all the FILTHY DIRT that I would have been in if I continued living the life that I lived in Junior Highschool, because you know what? Boys don't care about you! All they do is see some "girl" that they like (they either say the "chick" to her, or call her a B-#@%$, AKA a female dog, if you UNDERSTAND what I mean, and by the way, this is from all boys, INCLUDING pimps), start talking to her, and TRYING their best to make that girl beleive that they LOVE her, and they start kissing, hugging, and going out, until he does what? He tries his BEST to get her to having sex with him.

Since she's fooled that he "loves" her, she agrees (and if she understands Sexually Transmitted Diseases, then she'll resent at the beginning, but the guy won't shut up and will STILL persist to have sex with her), and you know what? They "enjoy the warmth of their bed," "being naked," and "touching eachother (wait, eachother? No no, I was sarcastic, I really mean: HIM TOUCHING HER)," and so when they're done, the next day, or a week later, he DUMPS her, and goes and has sex with 5-6 other girls that he was DATING AT THE SAME TIME.

And what ends up? Three weeks later, the girl finds out that she's PREGNANT, and she's UPSET, because:

1.) She doesn't want to have to TAKE CARE OF A BABY when she's only a teen!

2.) She REALLY found out the TRUE nature of her "lover;" he tricked her into thinking that he loves her, he tricks her into having sex. and after "he gets a taste of her virginity," he then dumps her, leaving her with a baby, whom SHE must now raise, as a TEENAGE girl.

And also, the girl gets EVEN MORE PISSED OFF when she finds out that she has Sexually Transmitted Diseases! But it is HER FAULT for falling for his tricks, and it's HIS FAULT for trying to deceive someone that he KNOWS is prone emotions and words.

And TRUST me, I spend CLASSES around "pimps," "players," and "p-o-r-n freaks," and you know what they tell me? These ""pimps" (and TRUST me, them, including the players, and some of the *!*!*!*! freaks, are the boys that girls say are, "cute" and "sexy,") were like to me: "You find a girl you like, you try having sex with her, and then you stay with her for a couple of months, NO LONGER THAN A YEAR," and I said to them, "What if she gets pregnant?"

"Well, THAT is why you only stay with THEM (the THEM means all the girls that they play) for a couple of months, but NO LONGER THAN A YEAR," and when I resented about that, they just told me that I'm just "weird," because like they told me:

"You don't know the way we boys play (with girls)," because they THINK that I NEVER knew about, or was close to being that way the previous year.

But anyway, in my head, I was thinking, "Oh yes I DO know the way you boys try to play (with girls)," because I've BEEN around it for the past years, and I was getting a BIT into that stuff in Junior Highschool also!


And TRUST me on what I said about the so called-"cute boys" that girls have crushes on, in which the boy turns out to CRUSH HER (be the CRUSHER), and be a "pimp & playa," because TRUST me, I live in the USA, and walking distance (of about fifteen to twenty minutes) from the ghetto part of my city (yeah, P-Town's known for their large Bloods community in the ghettos and in downtown), and IF you listen to P-Diddy and the Bad Boys, 2pac and the Outlawz, LiL Wayne, etc. then you'll KNOW what I'm talking about (with gang members and boys having sex, and infecting diseases into girls and making a whole bunch of girls getting pregnant).


After reading all of this about sex before marriage, TELL me? DOES this seem just? To DO something like this? Obviously NO! (< if you got a RIGHT MIND, because it's DISGUSTING that SO MANY babies are born a year out of wedlock, and many kids in the USA do NOT even know who their father is BECAUSE of this!)

And so THAT is why:

Sex before Marriage is BANNED in Islam.

Cheating on your spouse (when you are married or engaged) and having SEX with another person (other than the one that you are married or engaged with) is BANNED in Islam.

And also, RAPE is ALSO, BANNED in Islam (not to mention for the FACT, which I am PROUD of, that in ISLAM, the RAPIST gets STONED TO DEATH, and THAT is Justice, meaning that the Rapist DOES get punishment like that for DESTROYING the dignity and honor that God has bestowed upon a female).

I do NOT want to talk on this subject further.


Now, for your LAST statement:

"why should Muslim children be raised to beleive in Islam,"

Well, why should people CHOOSE to become Muslim? Because they KNOW that Islam IS the truth! So what you are telling me is:

1.) That I should raise my child in a bad society, so (like I said above) he will grow up disrespecting females and get infected with STDs? (< and also, in Islam, a man MUST be good to women, just because a small FEW aren't (and these few don't EVEN practice Islam, or don't practice it correctly!), doesn't mean that there aren't a whole BUNCH of Muslim men (with Kufis and beards) that do!)

2.) Or how about raising my child as an agnostic? And do you REALLY know what an agnostic does? It's not merely that he does not follow a formal religion, it's that what he does is that he STARTS HAVING IDEAS ABOUT GOD WHICH ARE BASED UPON ONLY WHAT HE THINKS GOD IS, AND DOESN'T HAVE ANY PROPER DIRECTION.

And example, the Deists, who beleived, "God is so powerful that WE as mortals can NOT have contact with him," and in which OTHER Deists thought that "yes, we CAN communicate with God, we just need to ask and worship those INTEMEDIATARIES, or people/idols "who he's close with," and in the end, they believe that a MERE human being (which is DEAD) can hear thousands of voices ALL AT THE SAME TIME, which then makes those idols/people be considered DIVINE!"

But anyway, Islam IS the Truth, and whether you accept it or not, and whether you embrace it OR NOT, but ALL that I will do is GIVE you the proof, and YOU must decide whether or not you will: USE this knowledge to benefit you, or harm you (that EVEN after you are STILL given ALL the proof that Islam IS the Truth, you decide to NOT convert and be a Muslim), because whether or not you are a Muslim or become a Muslim or NOT does NOT matter, but that you have been given ENOUGH evidence and proof.

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And ANOTHER thing, let me teach you a bit about WIFE BEATING and FEMALE OPPRESSION in Islam:

This is a BREIF video about the Mercy of the Prophet Muhammad (p&b-buh), in order to FULLY benefit, I suggest you see the ENTIRE VIDEO (I'll post it at under this one):


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For this video, skip to 1:10 to not listen to the poetry
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[abdullahinislam]

Abdullahinislam: Regarding what you wrote about sex being something which adults do, this is true, and something which can be proven. Children (before puberty) are not physically or mentally ready to have sex, in much the same manner that babies, before they grow teeth, are not ready to eat solid food. That said, the question of whether or not ADULTS have sex is no more immoral than whether or not people with teeth eat solid food. The fact that some people have confused thoughts about sex, such as thinking they must have sex in order to prove they are adults, still has no effect on whether or not sex is evil. The world is full of stupid people who have confused thoughts about all sorts of things. Such as the anti-gun mentality that seems to think guns run down the street shooting themselves :-D

Exactly, and I do not believe anywhere is Sex or Music stated as evil by it's nature - it is the way human beings implement these things that change them to be evil.

Lets analyze:

A man forces a woman to have sex - evil or not?
A man gets a woman pregnant and leaves her alone - evil or not?
A man sleeps with several women and transmits a sexual disease - evil or not?
A man makes love to his wife - evil or not?

A man listens to a song and is influenced to have immoral desires - evil or not?
A man listens to a song and falls asleep - evil or not?
A man listens to a song and smiles - evil or not?
A man listens to a song and cries, gets angry and shouts at his wife - evil or not?

You see, evil is relative to the person. Sex of itself is not evil, sex between a couple is not evil, Music of itself is not evil. It is the way MAN utilises, implements or abuses these things that can be evil. This is my opinion.

As stated before I am not involving religion in this discussion because if you do not believe in a God, then it serves no purpose here.

However as stated before, I believe in Islam and I believe God stated that sex outside marriage should not be allowed and promiscuity should not be allowed because it gives a line in which sex remains lawful and avoids the possible evil that it can evolve to when limits are not in place. Same goes for Music, but this is simply MY view.