Lower the gaze/gays?

[Umm3mar]

Salamo Aleikom

Sisters and brothers, sit and take a break, it's going to be a while.

I am a co-director at an afterschool program and up until recently, all the employees have been female. This helps enormously when I need to pray at work. Al'hamdu'lillah, I feel comfortable praying at work, because I know if anyone walks into the office while I'm in sajda, its another woman, no major problem. BUUUUT, just last week a young man was hired.

#1 Now my prayer schedule is disrupted. I have to send him outside to pray in peace. Otherwise he has the habit of lingering in the office.If he finds the door locked, he jiggles the handle. As his director, it is my right to tell him where to go in order to care for the children, however I feel guilty sending him outside so I can pray.

#2As an afterschool program director, I close the facility. We are open until 6 p.m. When the last child leaves we go home. This young man has been scheduled to close as well. He as well is scheduled until 6 p.m. I find myself sending him home early around 5:45 so when the last child leaves, we won't be alone together. Again, as a supervisor, I an permitted to do so becasue of adult to child ratios. It is not financially responsable to have 2 adults for only 4 children. (The legal guideline for school age children is 1 adult to every 8-10 kids) However, I worry that he might claim discrimination.

#3 While I am doing paperwork in the office he has the habit of coming in and starting conversations.This is tricky in that as a supervisor, I need to be on a good relation with all staff. The female staff I have a cordial relationship with. It is easy to talk with other females and be friendly, but I am struggling to find the balance of not ignoring him merely because he is male, yet not beign "friendly".

#4 It is difficult to tell whether he is serious or not but he has attempted to ask questions about Islam. I have tried telling him, "We are here to work. Our first priority is the children This is not the time or place to speak about religion." This seemed harsh, so the next time he asked I told him "I am glad you are curious about Islam, but I am not knowlegable enough to answer your questions. Let me give you the number of a man I know who can help you."

He questions why a man? Aren't women knowlegable in Islam?
I try telling him, men should learn from men, and women from women. A woman knows about female concerns, likewise men.

He then says, "I'm gay. A Muslim man would be biased against me and possibly violent. That's why I ask you."

He then brings up a subject that made me wonder. He says, "Doesn't your "koran" (sic) say that women can talk to, even show their hair to gays?"

I told him no, that is not true. He then said, "Isn't there a place that says women can show their hair to the male relatives, the innocent children and the men without desires?"

(Sura al nur, I believe)

Then, I made a statement that I regret. I said "No, that refers to men that are altered for example eunichs. Gay men are not free from desires. They only practice desires in a different way."

I regret the statement because I am worried that it is not true. Can anyone clarify? What is the meaning behind the wording "men free from desires". Am I correct?

Jazka'allakheryan for the patience in wading through this novel. A clarafication would be appreciated.

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

walaikum salaams sister

hmmmm a dilemma - its a difficult one. I think you are doing all you can to adhere to Islam with this man working with you and you have the best of intentions alhamdulillah. It is good and nice that you are worried how he is feeling about the arrnagements you have had to put in place since his arrival (like sending him home early) as it shows your good heart and we are supposed to be aware of how other people feel.

Couple of ideas:

Is it possible to rearrnage the rota so that another female is also in the office with the 2 of you at the end of the day so you are not alone with him?

is it possible to set up a screen to pray behind so that you don't have to send him outside when you pray?

Also, I think if you spoke to him about how he is finding his new job, settling in etc....this will give him the opportunity to say anything if he feels uncomfortable and also you could explain to him why you can't pray with him there and why you can't be alone with him...he may have some suggestions for something that works for both of you.

With regards to the ayat - I thought this referreed to enuchs and men of old age - like really old - or those who have medical conditions that mean they have no sexual desire. As far as I am aware, you are correct and homosexuals are not included in this. Many times we hear of gay men who then decide they like women to, or instead of, or of men who were married and then decide they were gay all along.........what i mean is, it is interchangeable because quite often the person is confused or misled ( hope i don't offend anyone by saying that)

I will try and look into the ayat for you and get proper understanding from a scholar - insha'allah you can do the same.

Best of luck

Salaams

 

[Dawoodi]

salam w

salam walaikum w

my Dear sister, after reading ur post i feel very happy to see there are muslimas like u that have a shuch nice maners masha'allah as it should be.

insha'allah i recomend u to get a translation of the Quran and give it to him so if he really interested in Islam maybe he will find the unser in it.

there are some dificoult issues that are very dificoult to explain to him or to any one who is gay. as u know Islams teach very clearly our position regardin this sin.

but you can if it gets to that point explain that its the sin that we disagree and consider undesirable and no the person. also in a very polite manner you must let him know why u want privacy on your salat and why you shouldnt be alone with him and make it clear its not personal but a matter of faith.´

u can explaing that islam its a religion of protection and prevention of chastity for the good of society and people. and for u as a matter of faith and personal choise and in base of tolerance and respect u will apreciate he understand this.

that should be suficient.

regarding the fact that he thinks he will be treat harsh because he is gay u maybe can contact some one from u comunity that has proper manners and undestand islam in a proper way and ask his help or arrange a metting for this person with him, so he can ask all the question he has.
this way you can say to this person that u can asure him you have the rigth person to whom he can talk with insha'allah.
even you could invite him to a conference or dawah lecture, also provide him with website links books etc and on that way avoid chitchat with him.

at the end of the day, if he aproach u to ask u about islam u shouldn say no to that oportunity to give dawah. but use the chance to provide for other resurces for him insted of u.

salam walaikum.

 

[Umm3mar]

Salamo Aleikom

Jazak'allakhran to all for the great advice.

At our center we observe a "non-biased curriculum", which means we respect everyone, but don't observe anything. What is meant by this? During December, we observe "winter recess" rather than "Christmas vacation". If we have art activities during the winter season, reindeer, santa claus, and other such icons are avoided for more neutral themes such as snowflakes and gingerbreadmen. Likewise, during spring we have "Spring break" rather than "Easter vacation". There are no rabbits or egg activities, but we do have lots of flower crafts.

I mention this to give backround of the facility. Because we try to avoid promoting any particular belief system, I am concerned that other staff would perceive me as hypocritical if I were to make too big of a deal about my Islam.

It concerns me. Can my actions be perceived as discriminatory, or "sexist"?

Istirghfu'allah, for this reason of the non-bias curriculum, I avoid talking too much about Islam to other staff members. If I were an aide rather than a supervisor, perhaps I could make more dawah. If I were an equal and I offended someone, at the worst, the other staff members would avoid talking to me. However, as a supervisor my first responsibility is guiding the staff. If I ruffle someone's feathers by talking too much about "my religion" I fear they won't take my administrative advice seriously.

Sisters and brothers, please make du'a for me that I pass this test.

 

[Mohsin]

Assalamu-alaikum !

:salam2: dear sister, i read yr question and tried to find out the answer and i am posting here what i found out but i think our brother Mabsoot can answer this question better . Anyways, here is what i have found

Modesty is a virtue which Islam demands of Muslim men and women. The most powerful verses commanding the believers to be modest occur in Surah al-Nur and begin with the words:

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well aware of what they do. (24:31)
The rule of modesty is equally applicable to men and women. A brazen stare by a man at a woman or another man is a breach of correct behaviour. The rule is meant not only to guard women, but is also meant to guard the spiritual good of men. Looking at the sexual anarchy that prevails in many parts of the world, and which Islam came to check, the need for modesty both in men and women is abundantly clear. However it is on account of the difference between men and women in nature, temperament, and social life, that a greater amount of veiling is required for women than for men, especially in the matter of dress. A complete code of modesty is laid down in the Qur'an as follows:

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty save to their husbands, or their fathers or their husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical desire, or small children who have no sense of sex; and that they should not stamp their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O believers! Turn all together towards Allah, that you may attain bliss. (24:31)
A key term in the above verse is zinat. It means both natural beauty and artificial ornaments. The word as used in the above verse seems to include both meanings. Women are asked not to make a display of their figures, not to wear tight clothing that reveals their shapeliness, nor to appear in such dress except to:

>their husbands,
>their relatives living in the same house with whom a certain amount of informality is permissible,
>their women, that is, in the strict sense, their maid-servants who are constantly in attendance on them, but in a more liberal sense, all believing women,
>old or infirm men-servants, and
>infants or small children who have not yet got a sense of sex

While Muslim men are required to cover the body between the navel and the knee, every Muslim woman is asked to cover her whole body excluding the face and hands from all men except her husband. The following traditions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) give us further guidance in the matter:

"It is not lawful for any woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day that she should uncover her hand more than this and then he placed his hand on his wrist joint. "When a woman reaches puberty no part of her body should remain uncovered except her face and the hand up to the wrist joint."
'A'isha reports that once she appeared got up in finery before her nephew, 'Abdullah ibn al-Tufail. The Prophet (peace be upon him) did not approve of it. "I said, 'O Apostle of Allah, he is my nephew.' The Prophet replied, 'When a woman reaches puberty it is not lawful for her to uncover any part of her body except the face and this and then he put his hand on the wrist joint as to leave only a little space between the place he gripped and the palm."

Asma', the sister of 'A'isha and daughter of Abu Bakr, came before the Prophet in a thin dress that showed her body. The Prophet turned his eyes away and said, "O Asma'! When a woman reaches puberty, it is not lawful that any part of her body be seen, except this and this" - and then he pointed to his face and the palms of his hands. Hafsah, daughter of 'Abdur-Rahman, once came before 'A'isha wearing a thin shawl over her head and shoulders. 'A'isha tore it up and put a thick shawl over her. The Messenger of Allah also said, "Allah has cursed those women who wear clothes yet still remain naked." The khalif, 'Umar, once said, "Do not clothe your women in clothes that are tight-fitting and reveal the shapeliness of the body." The above-mentioned traditions make it explicitly clear that the dress of Muslim women must cover the whole body, except for the face and hands, whether in the house or outside, even with her nearest relatives. She must not expose her body to anybody except her husband, and must not wear a dress that shows the curves of her body. Some scholars, like Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani, are of the opinion that, because modern times are particularly full of fitnah (mischief), women should go as far as to cover their faces because even the face may attract sexual glances from men. Shaikh al-Albani says, "We admit that the face is not one of the parts of the body to be covered, but it is not permissible for us to hold to this taking into consideration the corruption of the modern age and the need to stop the means for further corruption."

It is respectfully submitted, however, that in the light of the Prophetic traditions it suffices to cover the body, leaving out the face and hands up to the wrist joints, since this is the specified Islamic covering and it may sometimes be essential for a woman to go about her lawful engagements with her face uncovered. However if a woman prefers to put on the veil (burqah), she should not be discouraged as this may be a sign of piety and God-consciousness (taqwah). The rules on dress are slightly relaxed when a woman reaches old age and her sexual attractions have faded. The Qur'an says:


Such elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage, there is no blame on them if they lay aside their (outer) garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty; but it is best for them to be modest and Allah is the One who sees and knows all things. (24:60)
However, if a woman is old but still has sexual desires, it is not lawful for her to take off her over- garments. Women at whom people are not possibly going to cast sexual glances but rather look at with respect and veneration are entitled to make use of the relaxation and go about in their houses without wearing an over-garment.

 

[umm hussain]

asalam alaikum

Salamo Aleikom

Sisters and brothers, sit and take a break, it's going to be a while.

I am a co-director at an afterschool program and up until recently, all the employees have been female. This helps enormously when I need to pray at work. Al'hamdu'lillah, I feel comfortable praying at work, because I know if anyone walks into the office while I'm in sajda, its another woman, no major problem. BUUUUT, just last week a young man was hired.

#1 Now my prayer schedule is disrupted. I have to send him outside to pray in peace. Otherwise he has the habit of lingering in the office.If he finds the door locked, he jiggles the handle. As his director, it is my right to tell him where to go in order to care for the children, however I feel guilty sending him outside so I can pray.

#2As an afterschool program director, I close the facility. We are open until 6 p.m. When the last child leaves we go home. This young man has been scheduled to close as well. He as well is scheduled until 6 p.m. I find myself sending him home early around 5:45 so when the last child leaves, we won't be alone together. Again, as a supervisor, I an permitted to do so becasue of adult to child ratios. It is not financially responsable to have 2 adults for only 4 children. (The legal guideline for school age children is 1 adult to every 8-10 kids) However, I worry that he might claim discrimination.

#3 While I am doing paperwork in the office he has the habit of coming in and starting conversations.This is tricky in that as a supervisor, I need to be on a good relation with all staff. The female staff I have a cordial relationship with. It is easy to talk with other females and be friendly, but I am struggling to find the balance of not ignoring him merely because he is male, yet not beign "friendly".

#4 It is difficult to tell whether he is serious or not but he has attempted to ask questions about Islam. I have tried telling him, "We are here to work. Our first priority is the children This is not the time or place to speak about religion." This seemed harsh, so the next time he asked I told him "I am glad you are curious about Islam, but I am not knowlegable enough to answer your questions. Let me give you the number of a man I know who can help you."

He questions why a man? Aren't women knowlegable in Islam?
I try telling him, men should learn from men, and women from women. A woman knows about female concerns, likewise men.

He then says, "I'm gay. A Muslim man would be biased against me and possibly violent. That's why I ask you."

He then brings up a subject that made me wonder. He says, "Doesn't your "koran" (sic) say that women can talk to, even show their hair to gays?"

I told him no, that is not true. He then said, "Isn't there a place that says women can show their hair to the male relatives, the innocent children and the men without desires?"

(Sura al nur, I believe)

Then, I made a statement that I regret. I said "No, that refers to men that are altered for example eunichs. Gay men are not free from desires. They only practice desires in a different way."

I regret the statement because I am worried that it is not true. Can anyone clarify? What is the meaning behind the wording "men free from desires". Am I correct?

Jazka'allakheryan for the patience in wading through this novel. A clarafication would be appreciated.

I dont see why you should apologise for making time to pray and letting him go outside or go home early, to be honest I think this is quite good. To be honest I dont think this man is really gay, I think he only said that to wind you up since he knows the stance of muslims against homosexuals, so that if for example you fire him he can argue you fired him because of his sexuality. It seems he knows a bit of Quran and he he is being very tactful he is intentionally invading your space to make you more and more uncomfortable.

I though it was allowed for women to give men dawah , correct me if im wrong. Be confident in front of him dont let him know he is intimidating you in any way otherwise he will persist. I would say answer his questions to the best of your ability and whatever you dont know say so or better still direct him to a mosque to have his questions answered. I think the next thing he is probably going to ask is, is it okay to be homo. In my opinion he is a coward that's why he cant go and speak to another man and wants to intimidate you and he knows it and it is working.

 

[Umm3mar]

Salamo ALeikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

Sister Umm Hussain, I do agree that you have a point there. It is quite probable that he is trying to push me. I don't intend to be apologetic of my actions. As a supervisor, each action can be justified for work purposes. My main concern is that he will target me as discriminating against him.

I am unclear about the dawah aspect. I was under the understanding that dawah (an invitation to follow Islam) is for our Muslim brothers and sisters. The extent of dawah for non-muslims is good conduct. I feel that at work I make enormous dawah without saying a word. To the children and my co-workers, my politeness is a dawah that Muslims are kind. My participating in sports with the kids tells then that Muslim women can be active even in hijab and jalabaya. Comforting the kids when they have a problem or are injured demonstrates that Muslims are compassionate.

I have been working at this school site for the past 4 years. Each school year the new ones (kindergarteners usually) ask why I wear "that thing on your head". I don't even need to say a word. The older children explain for me. "She wears a hijab. Only her family is special enough to see her hair."

Jazak'allakhyran to all who gave such awesome advice and empathy.

 

[Noor to shine]

:salam2: sister
I think you are doing a great job ...To call for Islam by giving good example is the best daawa :the seera (history) of the prophet salla Allah alihi wa salam teaches us the hight noble morality of prophet Mohammad salla allah alaihi wa sallam....I know it is very difficuilt to be like the prophet but one can gain much by studing and seera and hadiths.

 

[boupj]

he say's isn't it ok for you to show your hair and pray in front of men without desires, and he asumes he is included because he's gay. I don't know the answer, but when a man (even a gay man) seems eager to watch you pray, and especially see your hair it doesn't sound like he's free of desires. I'm not trying to judge it just seems a little bit weird that he would mention that, implying that you could show him your hair/remove your hijab in front of him.

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

Assalamu alaikum,

Sister Umm3mar. From a medical point of view, you are correct when you told him:
''that refers to men that are altered for example eunuchs. Gay men are not free from desires. They only practice desires in a different way."

It is not true that gay men do not have sexual desires towards women. It is more towards men, but there are stories of gay men or lesbian women who became ''straight''. The singer Tom Robinson was a ''happy'' out gay man who, to his own surprise, fell in love with a woman and married her. Sorry for mentioning this as an example, but just to make it clear.
Genes and hormones do not determine a person`s sexual orientation.

I agree with Umm Hussein, and you should be careful.

Regarding da`wa with non-muslims, we shouldn`t just depend on good morals and conduct. It`s true that sometimes one`s position might hinder him/her from starting a conversation about Islam at work (like doctors in a hospital), but when we are asked about something (the way we pray, hijab, etc.), we should take that opportunity to enlighten those people about our great religion.

I think you`re doing a great job. May Allah make you steadfast in your faith and increase your love to following what Allah wants.

 

[Love my islam]

:salam2: sister

I think you are doing an excellent job. You are following all the guidelines of being a good muslimah. I myself work outside home and Allah has given me bit of a position. Like you I feel Dawah can be done by actions. By being kind, loving, generous, humble and compassionate. If anything we are erasing misconceptions about muslim women. But if questions are asked I answer them with best of my knowledgel with full confidance.

May Allah help you and guide you in your sitiuation. And may He make us all strong in our deen. Ameen

 

[Yusuf1990]

Wa'alaikum asalaam warahmatullah,

First of all, what you are doing by avoiding him is praiseworthy and may Allah make this easier for you. Do not feel bad about it, it is a sign of iman and taqwa, just continue to try your best in this situation and insha'Allah things will be ok.

As for the subject of homosexuality, of course these people have desires and yes you are correct when you say they practise them in a different way. We see in the Qur'an the story of the people of Lut ('alahi salaam), they were the first people to commit homosexuality and even when Lut ('alaihi salaam) offered his daughters to them for marriage they refused. We learn what happened to them, they were destroyed by Allah ta'ala and their former place of refuge has been left as a sign for all of mankind.

The person you work with, he is a man and also a non-Mahram so it is clearly not permissable to show your hair or have relations etc with him in any way.

As for what he attempted to quote:

'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.'
Qur'an 24:30

The issue of 'men without desires'; we see the statement of Allah: 'or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex', from this we learn that there must a valid phsyical or mental reason involved (hence the young child having no desires as he has not reached puberty, or the very old man because in this case his desires would have been dimminished by his age). It is also worth to note that people of all ages with mental health conditions (which involve them having no sexual emotions whatsoever) could possibly fall into this catergory, but it is best to refer to the people of knowledge in this matter.

Either way, what we are concerned with here is the issue of homosexuality and we know that it is not normal or natural as two men cannot reproduce and neither can two women and they were not created fro this purpose, it is a great transgression agaisnt Allah's Perfect Laws which He has set.

Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He has created everything in pairs. The statement of Allah:

'And among His Signs is this, that He created you (Adam) from dust, and then [Hawwa' (Eve) from Adam's rib, and then his offspring from the semen, and], - behold you are human beings scattered! And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect.'
Qur'an 30:20-21

This shows that what he said is inncorrect, I advise you to continue avoiding him in all matters unrelated to work and if he is sincere about Islam then he should seek answers from the learned men among us, and there are many in this case.

And Allah knows best.