simple question about girly gazing!!!!

BinteShafi

Left long ago
well i agree with u, but this is the way Islam is, we have to follow as to whatever has been ordered, and if we don't follow or make excuses, then we are no more believers, we don't have to use logic in deen, we must have faith and follow, if we start using logic then there may come many questions which no body is able to answer and asking those questions or thinking abt them logically may destroy our faith as a Muslim.

so follow what has been ordered.

From the above post, what I understood is that applying Allah's law (segregation between two genders) can cause disabilities BUT still you apply that as Islam has ordered this?

SubhanAllah!!!Islam does not work this way brother. Islam is a rationale religion and every command of Allah Subhana Wa t'ala has supreme logic and wisdom...if sometime human mind can not comprehend the wisdom, then it does not mean at all that there is flaw in the command, rather it means human mind's comprehension is limited. (Though in the scnario being discussed, wisdom behind the law of segregation between males and females is very much clear and it does not create any disabilities rather it prevents society from many serious social evils)

Allah is the creator. He has absolute knowledge. He is all Wise and Powerful. Allah's command is not just a COMMAND brother....No even a single rule of the Creator is without a wisdom and well being of mankind. Islam's legislation is not something which lacks logic and which require blind following...We follow Allah's law with the firm belief that it leads to ultimate success in this world and in the hereafter.

Allah is the Creator and HE is all aware that what is good and what is bad for HIS creation.

:wasalam:
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Sister I am :p

Uhm, is it their fault that their genetic code is like that? Are you also insinuating that homosexuals are less of a human? that's the reasoning Hitler used to justify the killing of Jews... and why females were opressed before..... people thought they were the "lesser human"


I'm just saying

You see, Islaam teaches us that every person is born with a natural inclination towards Islaam. It is the environment that people involve themselves in, which leads to them, changing the natural disposition. People tend to follow the footsteps of Shaytaan, and lead themselves into evil, and then they blame Allaah, the Ever Merciful? And this is what Shaytaan said, for Alllaah, the Most High, says:

And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.
[Surah An Nisaa (4): 119]

Allaah cleary states in the Quraan and He is not unjust, and in a hadeeth, Allaah has forbidden for Himself opression, as it is narrated "Oh my servants, I prohibited oppression on myself, therefore don't commit oppression"

And Allaah will judge us justly as He, the Most High, says : And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one. [Surah Al Kahf (18): 49]

Here is a lengthy, yet interesting answer from a scholar...

Could you please tell me that why is a homosexuality a sin in islam? I know it’s a great sin but my question is why? I haven't able to find the real reason why? So، if you could can you also tell me that what Allah has says in Quran or in hadith about it. Please let me know as soon as possible.

Praise be to Allaah.

The Muslim should not doubt, even for an instant, that what Allaah has prescribed is wise. He should know that there is great wisdom in what Allaah has commanded and what He has forbidden; it is the straight path and is the only way in which man can be safe and at peace, protecting his honour, his mind and his health, in accordance with the natural disposition (fitrah) with which Allaah has created man.

Some heretics have tried to attack Islam and its rulings; they have denounced divorce and plural marriage and permitted alcohol. Those who look at the state of their societies will see the state of misery which those societies have reached.

When they rejected divorce, murder took its place. When they rejected plural marriage, men started to take mistresses instead. When they allowed alcohol, all kinds of shameful and immoral actions became widespread.

They (gays and lesbians) both go against the natural disposition (fitrah) which Allaah has created in mankind – and also in animals – whereby the male is inclined towards the female, and vice versa.
Whoever goes against that goes against the natural disposition of mankind, the fitrah.

The spread of homosexuality has caused man diseases which neither the east nor the west can deny exist because of them. Even if the only result of this perversion was AIDS – which attacks the immune system in humans – that would be enough.

It also causes the breakup of the family and leads people to give up their work and study because they are preoccupied with these perversions.

Since the prohibition has come from his Lord, the Muslim should not wait until medicine proves that harm befalls the one who does that which Allaah has forbidden. Rather he must believe firmly that Allaah only prescribes that which is good for people, and these modern discoveries should only increase his certainty and confidence in the greatness of Allaah’s wisdom.

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Both of them – fornication and homosexuality – involve immorality that goes against the wisdom of Allaah’s creation and commandment. For homosexuality involves innumerable evil and harms, and the one to whom it is done would be better off being killed than having this done to him, because after that he will become so evil and so corrupt that there can be no hope of his being reformed, and all good is lost for him, and he will no longer feel any shame before Allaah or before His creation. The semen of the one who did that to him will act as a poison on his body and soul. The scholars differed as to whether the one to whom it is done will ever enter Paradise. There are two opinions which I heard Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrate.”

(al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, p. 115).

2. Lesbianism means one woman doing to another something like that which a man does to a woman. Homosexuality means having intercourse with males in the back passage. This was the action of the accursed people of the Prophet of Allaah Loot (peace be upon him). In sharee’ah terminology it refers to inserting the tip of the penis into the anus of a male.

What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

A – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’”

[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]

B – “Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night”

[al-Qamar 54:34 – interpretation of the meaning]

C – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?”

[al-A’raaf 7:80 – interpretation of the meaning]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)’”

[al-‘Ankaboot 29:28]

D – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa’ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:74 – interpretation of the meaning]

E – “And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ‘Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)

Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.’

There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ‘Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!’

So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned”

[al-Naml 27:54-58 – interpretation of the meaning]

These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:

F – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:

“And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Merciful”

[al-Nisa’ 4:16]

Ibn Katheer said:

“The words of Allaah ‘And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both’ mean, those who commit immoral actions, punish them both. Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), Sa’eed ibn Jubayr and others said: By condemning them, shaming them and hitting them with shoes. This was the ruling until Allaah abrogated it and replaced it with whipping and stoning. ‘Ikrimah, ‘Ata, al-Hasan and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Katheer said: This was revealed concerning a man and woman who commit fornication. Al-Saddi said, it was revealed concerning young people before they get married. Mujaahid said: it was revealed concerning two men if they admit it bluntly; a hint is not sufficient – as if he was referring to homosexuality. And Allaah knows best.”

(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/463).

G – It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him): “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.’”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1457; Ibn Maajah, 2563. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 1552).

H – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “… cursed is the one who has intercourse with an animal, cursed is the one who does the action of the people of Loot.”

(Narrated by Ahmad, 1878. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5891).

I – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1456; Abu Dawood, 4462; Ibn Maajah, 2561. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 6589).

And Allaah knows best.
 

mohammed 1234

Darkness to Light
From the above post, what I understood is that applying Allah's law (segregation between two genders) can cause disabilities BUT still you apply that as Islam has ordered this?

SubhanAllah!!!Islam does not work this way brother. Islam is a rationale religion and every command of Allah Subhana Wa t'ala has supreme logic and wisdom...if sometime human mind can not comprehend the wisdom, then it does not mean at all that there is flaw in the command, rather it means human mind's comprehension is limited. (Though in the scnario being discussed, wisdom behind the law of segregation between males and females is very much clear and it does not create any disabilities rather it prevents society from many serious social evils)

Allah is the creator. He has absolute knowledge. He is all Wise and Powerful. Allah's command is not just a COMMAND brother....No even a single rule of the Creator is without a wisdom and well being of mankind. Islam's legislation is not something which lacks logic and which require blind following...We follow Allah's law with the firm belief that it leads to ultimate success in this world and in the hereafter.

Allah is the Creator and HE is all aware that what is good and what is bad for HIS creation.

:wasalam:

Follow the Quran and Sunnah but if there is lack of information then ask ahl al ilm if you do not know.
 

mohammed 1234

Darkness to Light
Going back to the original subject, you need to keep shaytan away from his whispers by Dhikr, Salat reading Quran, attending duroos (lectures) and gaining as much knowledge about Islam as possible.

Shaytan is very clever and wishes to take as many people with him to the Hellfire and make people stray away from the straight path.
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
Hey easyyy easyyy...

to whom are you addressing?

Hi there

And why are you adressing our brother on that way?? Please do not for Allah sake.

Why you came here, to learn about Islaam or to attack Islaam values and morals. Allah has explained us our way of life SubhanAllah, and made haalal that what is good for us to clean our hearts and souls,and He subhan we teala has forbidden everything what is evil and wrong.It is up to humans to think about Allah Law,and it is up to them to chose will they be Servents of Allah or folowers of Shatyan and thier own wishes and disires.

How can you say that Islaam is harsh because it is forbiding homosexualitys Astagfirullah. That is disscusting. Allah has created women for man and man for women, like Allah subhan we teala sais in Holy Quran, but strictly forbids homosexuality!!!! We have example of Lut people that Allah has destroyed because of their great sins like homosexuality. They are not normal humans beings, becacuse the normal is that women and man are for each others.

And please do not call Islaam harsh.!!!!!

Dear brother Bukhair has explaine you everything well Mashallah, and it is for you to think about Allah words.

may Allah guide you. ameen

:wasalam:
 

Abdul25

Logical Believer
From the above post, what I understood is that applying Allah's law (segregation between two genders) can cause disabilities BUT still you apply that as Islam has ordered this?

SubhanAllah!!!Islam does not work this way brother. Islam is a rationale religion and every command of Allah Subhana Wa t'ala has supreme logic and wisdom...if sometime human mind can not comprehend the wisdom, then it does not mean at all that there is flaw in the command, rather it means human mind's comprehension is limited. (Though in the scnario being discussed, wisdom behind the law of segregation between males and females is very much clear and it does not create any disabilities rather it prevents society from many serious social evils)

Allah is the creator. He has absolute knowledge. He is all Wise and Powerful. Allah's command is not just a COMMAND brother....No even a single rule of the Creator is without a wisdom and well being of mankind. Islam's legislation is not something which lacks logic and which require blind following...We follow Allah's law with the firm belief that it leads to ultimate success in this world and in the hereafter.

Allah is the Creator and HE is all aware that what is good and what is bad for HIS creation.

:wasalam:



u misunderstood me, i never said nauzbillah there is flaw in any order from Allah, no absolutely not, i can never think like this,whom am i to say like this.
but what i wanted to say is that what ever is ordered, we have to follow, we must not find logics and wisdom.

now here it comes.
give me the logic to this question

if some guy marries her sisters , what is wrong in it?
she has been with him since childhood and she knows him better than the new woman he is going to marry.
logically marrying with sister is OK, and also scientifically there is no flaw in it?

now give me the logic to this argument..

this was asked to maulana taqi usmani (grand mufti of pakistan).

u give me the logic then i will write his (maulana taqi usmani) answer.
 

BinteShafi

Left long ago
:salam2:

sister Asja...rayray was just calming brother Azam down...his style was certainly unlike a Muslim's behaviour should be...(He might have some reason behind that i.e. anger etc)

She felt in this particular matter that Islam is strict and she had expressed her opinion....We should not take that offensive...Yes we are strict in regards to EVIL...brothers have explained to her Masha Allah very well ...and she seems to have understood that.

:wasalam:
 

ansari

STRANGER...
u misunderstood me, i never said nauzbillah there is flaw in any order from Allah, no absolutely not, i can never think like this,whom am i to say like this.
but what i wanted to say is that what ever is ordered, we have to follow, we must not find logics and wisdom.

now here it comes.
give me the logic to this question

if some guy marries her sisters , what is wrong in it?
she has been with him since childhood and she knows him better than the new woman he is going to marry.
logically marrying with sister is OK, and also scientifically there is no flaw in it?


now give me the logic to this argument..

this was asked to maulana taqi usmani (grand mufti of pakistan).

u give me the logic then i will write his (maulana taqi usmani) answer.


:salam2: akhi :)


4_23.png


Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your foster mother who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sisters, your wives' mothers, your step daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have gone in - but there is no sin on you if you have not gone in them (to marry their daughters), - the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins, and two sisters in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed; verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (surah an Nisa :verse23)
 

BinteShafi

Left long ago
u misunderstood me, i never said nauzbillah there is flaw in any order from Allah, no absolutely not, i can never think like this,whom am i to say like this.
but what i wanted to say is that what ever is ordered, we have to follow, we must not find logics and wisdom.

now here it comes.
give me the logic to this question

if some guy marries her sisters , what is wrong in it?
she has been with him since childhood and she knows him better than the new woman he is going to marry.
logically marrying with sister is OK, and also scientifically there is no flaw in it?

now give me the logic to this argument..

this was asked to maulana taqi usmani (grand mufti of pakistan).

u give me the logic then i will write his (maulana taqi usmani) answer.

:) really don't have time to go into useless debate. I might have certainly misunderstood you. My Mistake.

Asslam u Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
:salam2:

sister Asja...rayray was just calming brother Azam down...his style was certainly unlike a Muslim's behaviour should be...(He might have some reason behind that i.e. anger etc)

She felt in this particular matter that Islam is strict and she had expressed her opinion....We should not take that offensive...Yes we are strict in regards to EVIL...brothers have explained to her Masha Allah very well ...and she seems to have understood that.

:wasalam:

:salam2:

Yes Alhamdulillah I agree with you dear sister.
But maybe, brother Azam got angry because of her harsh words and he did not had bad intentions,and I got angry as well, that is why I said it.

I hope Inshallah she understood it now,and may Allah guide her and all of us.ameen

:wasalam:
 

BinteShafi

Left long ago
this thread is about to turn into arguments for the sake of arguments debate.

I take a leave from here with a reminder to myself

"You don't have to win every argument"

:wasalam:
 

rayray

Junior Member
Hi there

And why are you adressing our brother on that way?? Please do not for Allah sake.

Why you came here, to learn about Islaam or to attack Islaam values and morals. Allah has explained us our way of life SubhanAllah, and made haalal that what is good for us to clean our hearts and souls,and He subhan we teala has forbidden everything what is evil and wrong.It is up to humans to think about Allah Law,and it is up to them to chose will they be Servents of Allah or folowers of Shatyan and thier own wishes and disires.

How can you say that Islaam is harsh because it is forbiding homosexualitys Astagfirullah. That is disscusting. Allah has created women for man and man for women, like Allah subhan we teala sais in Holy Quran, but strictly forbids homosexuality!!!! We have example of Lut people that Allah has destroyed because of their great sins like homosexuality. They are not normal humans beings, becacuse the normal is that women and man are for each others.

And please do not call Islaam harsh.!!!!!

Dear brother Bukhair has explaine you everything well Mashallah, and it is for you to think about Allah words.

may Allah guide you. ameen

:wasalam:


It wasn't my intention to insult Islam. Pardon me if it came off that way. I said that the RESTRICTIONS are harsh.

My mistake for posting an unsolicited comment. Lesson learned. Should I just research and read threads on here to better understand Islam? ( I don't even understand myself for even trying to...)

Oh, and I was addressing the "hey, easssy easyyy" to AZAM_SIDDIQUI for using the word "Idiot". I thought that what he said was acerbic. I thought I was pacifying the situation.

Salaam!
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
It wasn't my intention to insult Islam. Pardon me if it came off that way. I said that the RESTRICTIONS are harsh.

My mistake for posting an unsolicited comment. Lesson learned. Should I just research and read threads on here to better understand Islam? ( I don't even understand myself for even trying to...)

Oh, and I was addressing the "hey, easssy easyyy" to AZAM_SIDDIQUI for using the word "Idiot". I thought that what he said was acerbic. I thought I was pacifying the situation.

Salaam!

Hi "rayray"

May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong,and forgive us all.ameen.

I apologise to you as well if I said something wrong, it was not my intetion. I was just taken with heart when it is word about Islaam. And Islaam is not harsh sister in humanity. Everything what Allah has forbidden it is only for good of all mainkinds,and Inshallah you can ask us any questions about Islaam. We will be more than glade to answer you, because Islaam is not afraid of the Truth, neither we Muslim.

May Allah guide us all.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
eh I don't know.... it is scientifically proven that homosexuality occurs naturally...and God created nature....

Dear rayray,

The claim that it is natural/scientifically proven is an outright lie, though spread by the media as truth. It is not natural or supported scientifically, rather some people tend to follow their desires, forge this opinion and then try find proof and evidence to support it. This methodology is heavily flawed, hardly worth being called sound let alone scientific. No one with fair-reasoning would ever make a claim and then find evidence to support it, rather we look at the facts first, and base our claims upon them.

I remember an old English teacher, who use to carry herself off as some sought of professional, use to say make this claim. I asked if her if she had seen any animals resorting to this behavior? She answered that it's been proven as there has been a recorded case of a dog or two, resorting to homosexual behavior...

Now I'm hoping you can see the obvious flaw here. In the name of being liberal, intellectual, tolerant, pluralist, democratic etc., this old teacher of mine sacrificed her common sense and reasoning to reach such a conclusion. She wasn't scientific at all, rather like a sheep, she just followed today's cultural trend. She supported homosexuality being natural, and went on an evidence-shopping-spree to dig anything up to support her claims.

Yet in this example, we all know that since the dawn of life, animals, who live by nature so to speak, have intercourse with the opposite gender in perhaps 99% of cases. To cite an example of one 'homosexual' dog is hardly enough to adjudge that the practice occurs naturally and is scientifically proven. It is a specific, exceptional, rare and isolated incident or occurrence. Hence it is abnormal, not natural. This is especially the case since as well all have experienced, the vast majority/all dogs we see, and all animals at that, behave naturally; they have intercourse with the opposite gender.

In short, when resorting to the method of finding facts and making fair conclusions based on them, we find that it is not at all natural or scientifically proven. When we resort to making conclusions and follow this with evidence-shopping, then each and every single one of us, would be able to prove what he wants, when he wants and how he wants, as this gives people the chance to use anything as a proof, no matter how flawed it is.

Born or Bread? Science does not Support the Claim that Homosexuality is Genetic
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

Brothers and Sisters, this is to no-one in specific, but rather something general which I have noticed many times before. Please do not joke about the closure of threads. Our forums are for healthy, Islamic discussions. So please, post when something needs to be said, not when you want to say something. The former method is assisting a sunnah, the second method resembles a you-tube comment.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
u misunderstood me, i never said nauzbillah there is flaw in any order from Allah, no absolutely not, i can never think like this,whom am i to say like this.
but what i wanted to say is that what ever is ordered, we have to follow, we must not find logics and wisdom.

now here it comes.
give me the logic to this question

if some guy marries her sisters , what is wrong in it?
she has been with him since childhood and she knows him better than the new woman he is going to marry.
logically marrying with sister is OK, and also scientifically there is no flaw in it?

now give me the logic to this argument..

this was asked to maulana taqi usmani (grand mufti of pakistan).

u give me the logic then i will write his (maulana taqi usmani) answer.

genetic disorders takes place because of incest! the children from such a couple may have serious deficiencies and the chances of contracting a genetic disease are very high.
Incest was allowed by Allah at the beginning of humanity. i.e. Adam (pbuh) and Hawa' children formed couple with each other. back then there were no diseases/deficiencies like we have developed after so many years of living on the earth.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/255/adam

I believe there is wisdom behind every ruling in Islam. However, human intelligence is limited. And there are some things i find extremely difficult to digest like marrying child girls (i read it on islamqa and i was ashamed to find that this was allowed in islam. It still drives me crazy but not as much as it used as i concluded that the hadith mentioned must be wrong :astag:) and complete prohibition of photography (including family photos, horses and tigers :SMILY23:).

as far as homosexuality is concerned, i think we have a brother (i dont want to name) who is an inspiration and a living example that such life style only brings sorrow while islam brings bliss both in this world and in the Hereafter, provided you are patient.

as for male female segregation, it's for the benefit of both genders. Mixing the genders causes illicit relationships, broken families, teenage pregnancies, suicides, rape and loss of sense of femininity and masculinity. Nobody can breathe confidence like a father can. Nobody can teach better manners and chivalry than a mother. Given all that i dont really see why somebody would want mix with the opposite gender to become socially at ease with them when this education can be taken from ones parents.
 
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