White Muslims

[Valerie]

Valerie,

Munawar gave excellent advice. In the West we have come to see our religion as a social situation (which it is); however, ultimately, Islam is about your relationship to Allah. I won't let anyone keep me out of Jannah. (Paradise). I won't let any other person send me to Jahannum (Hell).

You are obviously a sensitive person who might be driven away by a look or word, but remember, we can't read minds and there are cultural differences between individuals raised in The West and other parts of the world.

Also, when I was very new to Christianity, I made a judgmental remark about another person. My mentor at the time ask me if I decide to sit on the judgment throne. I try to always remember that it is Allah Who is The Owner of The Day of Judgment.

You're right, and I agree it was great advice. And actually, I should have been more clear. My situation (so far) has been that I have encountered positive Muslims who are friendly and interested in teaching others (it's been on the internet, here and beliefnet, which I don't go to anymore). They have made me want to learn more ("they" including the people I've seen here). I didn't mean for it to sound negative, although re-reading it... Yeah I should have thought more before posting

I can handle being ignored. Deliberately rude or hostile... would probably make me stay home (fortunately, since I"m female I don't have to go to the local center to pray, right? I'm such a chicken. I emailed them and no luck yet, I never see cars there when I'm in town either )

The reason I found this site to begin with was someone on beliefnet who posted a link to the last sermon (that someone else recently posted on here again). So far in the past, and yet it describes how life should be... How people should be treated. That's what I want. And if I did go to the local center, I'd try my very best to live up to that, but I'm just a flawed human.

 

[hana*]

this is an interesting thread.

my experience is similar to those of converts. i am a white born muslim and throughout my childhood and teenage years, the vast majority of Muslims (who are asian) did not accept me as a muslim because of my skin colour, i was referred to as the 'white girl' with a bitter reception. it is a very sad reality that people have such emphasis on skin colour, forgetting the faith itself. however, this is mainly due to their ignorance and lack of knowledge in the deen that lead them to become nieve.

i have great respect to reverts/converts, who have sacrificed everything for Allah, they are no less than the sahabah.

 

[arzafar]

Asalaam Aleakum,

See that's where their ignorance of my background is showing, I come from an extremely conservative background where the females "marry into" the man's family. The female is basically now part of his family and has responsibility to her in-laws. But they didn't know that about me due to my skin color...so certain prejudices were in place.

It still doesn't explain why they are still ashamed of the fact that their son married a white convert. I have worked very hard to be an obediant duaghter-in-law but they are caught up on my skin color and can't get past it. It appears that regardless of my efforts to learn their culture and language it will never be good enough since I have pale skin and blue eyes. But in the end it's their problem and not mine. Our children will be raised as Muslims (insh'Allah) and that's all that matters.

Wasalaam

i think most asian families suffer from a cultural hangover. they want to protect their 'cultural values' which have been passed down through generations. Islam is very much secondary. mother in laws are very possessive of their boys too. An independent daughter in law (one who knows her rights) is a threat to the status cuo.

Plus the mindset here is so wrong/narrow. The khalas (and chachas are on the act too) love to backbite, spread rumours, make assumptions and pass judgments about ones character. For most people marrying a 'gori' automatically implies that the guy fell for looks, was into 'bad stuff' or wanted a green card. I hope you realize that 'family pride' is at stake, which is why your in-laws 'hide' you. But, you can be sure that every far-off relative of your husband's family knows that he has married a 'gori'. At least you and your husband are famous!

now i dunno which part of pakistan your in-laws come from, but here there is a thing called 'braathari system'. those from punjab are really into this stuff. A punjabi will rarely (once in a blue moon) marry outside their 'caste' whether black, white, black or grey. as a matter of fact they have this deal thing where a man marries a woman and his sister marries the brother of his wife, to make sure no outsider enters the family!

But, things are changing. The younger generation is far more open, although it's inclined towards the west rather than islam.

 

[katieanneb]

Prophet Mohammad PBUH said: "An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood"

Dear Jordan,

I don't know if you are Muslim yet, or still discovering Islam, but I'd just like you to know that people's attitudes to other ethnic groups whatever they are, simply stem from ignorance of Islam. The true religion of Islam does not differentiate between people on the colour of their skin, the language they speak, their race, or the place they live in. The only difference is between Muslim and non-Muslim. Anyone who declares that only Allah is worthy of worship and that Mohamed is His messenger (that means the last of the line of Prophets from Adam, Moses, Jesus,and finally Mohamed) enters the fold of Islam. Once you're in, Allah only judges anyone on his/her faith and actions, and not on ethnic origins. You can see the Prophet's words in the quote above, which he spoke in his last sermon before he died, so you can see the importance that Islam places on equality of different races.

I am a white, British Muslim of 26 years, praise be to Allah (alhamdoulillah), and I have found only respect from other Muslims. I know there are those who think that because you have a non-Muslim "background",you'll never be quite good enough, or silly racial issues affect their thinking. However, we should just remember that Islam as a religion is perfect, but humans beings certainly are not perfect, and will unfortunately always try to interpet things to suit their own needs and wants.

May Allah guide us all to the true religion He has perfected for us with the final message (the Holy Quran), and to forget silly irrelevant things like colour, race, etc. By the way, it is not forbidden to be proud of one's homeland, but it shouldn't be at the expense of Muslim brotherhood ( and sisterhood I should say, or I'll be accused by someone, somewhere of being sexist.....hihihi!)

I wish you all the best in what I feel is your quest for the truth. Remember, whenever someone opens up their heart to Allah and asks Him for guidance, He will never let anyone down. So, just keep an open mind and by the grace of Allah, you will find the truth is in Islam.

Regards.

 

[Searching_soul]

:salam2:

I agree. People are more friendly in the bar (Never been to one, Alhamdulillah, but just saying) , than they are in the mosque.

What a state our muslim ummah has gotten into...
I really don't think its about the color of the skin. Im south asian myself, and sometimes, my own people don't respond to my salaams.......
And Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) told us to convey salams to the people we know and the people we don't. But in my community, rarely do people convey salams to the ones they don't know. That itself has become a culture.

One of our prophet's sunnahs was to smile even to a stranger. Has this sunnah become extinct? Whenever you smile at others you dont know, they give you a stare as if you are some lunatic.

I really wonder how amazing our prophet's generation would have been. Everyone racing to do even an ounce of good.

Wish i could see it in my lifetime Insha ALLAH!

 

[Abu_Luqmann]

What is the general attitude among Arabic Muslims towards white Muslims? I am curious because, being an Englishman, I have not seen a white Muslim before, and am incredibly interested in the attitudes towards white converts.
Thank you.

Assalamualaikum,

You would enjoy coming to our mosque in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK, mate. You can find black, brown, yellow, white and all combinations of them, praying together to the One True God.

I welcome you on behalf of our mosque to visit us. You will find it, Insha Allah, a rewarding experience.

salam

 

[lvn4islam]

Assalamu-alaikum,
I am a white male and a recent revert. I've found this discussion very interesting. I have not yet participated in my local mosque because I'm adraid I won't be accepted, as it is predominantly African-Americans. I must say I'm ashamed of the fact that I'm worried about such a thing, but I agree with what someone said earlier about the perception being that Islam is a religion for people of color. True, this perception is wrong, but it has me hesitant. I'm planning on attending the mosque for the first time this weekend..Insha'Allah. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Tabassum07]

Okay, I've come back to this thread with a happier state of mind than when I last posted. And you know what's happening? It's Shaytaan whispering to all of us, making us feel low and abandoned. If we have a low self-esteem, Shaytaan is making us think worse and worse of ourselves, and making us recall and remember the different instances we've been treated wrongly by different people, and wanting to turn us away from and against each other.

But we're smarter than that aren't we? We answer to no one but Allah (Subhan wa Ta'ala). As Mirajmom-aapa says, we're like a rainbow, each of us makes up the whole thing as a beautiful whole. Hasn't Allah said in the Quran "We have created you in different races and languages so you may know one another (and not so you may turn away from one another.)" So Insha'Allah, let's be united, and forget the times when we've been treated badly. So who cares if we didn't get received nicely at one point or the other, or not at all? Even if the whole population is against us, it doesn't really matter. Because as muslims, we should be above that, and where we receive hate or antagonism, we should give back love and care.

If someone's ignored us, or not accepted us, then they are not following the proper Islam, or are misguided, and we can only pray that Allah guides them to the proper path, and move on.

There are more important things happening in the world right now, than us having to waste our time on these petty differences. Even if not one soul loves you or me, Allah is there and sufficient for us.

I hope no one's offended by what I've just said. I do admit that I feel so lonely all the time, because others don't accept me, but who cares? I certainly don't. And neither should anyone else. Sure, there will be another time when Shaytaan will get the better of me, and I'll cry and feel lost and abandoned again, but it's just another test. And let's rise above that as a true muslim.

 

[fendou]

:salam2:

i understand what you can feel sisters and brothers and i think all of us born muslims or converts, white, blacks or asian... have been confronted to this situation (no answers at salam, don't accept you, look at you strangly...)
but you know what Prophet saws said : "when a person pass the salam to a group he got most hassanats and if they don't answer him people better will answer him, they are the Angels", so don't be nervous or upset when they don't answer you, you also got a reward!!!!

(maybe my translation is not very exact so in french it's:
« Lorsque la personne passe devant un groupe et les salue et qu’ils lui rendent ce salut, c’est lui qui a un degré en mérite en plus car il leur a rappelé le salam. Et si ces personnes ne lui répondent pas, des gens meilleurs qu’eux vont répondre à cette personne, ce sont les anges ».Il ne faut donc pas se mettre en colère lorsque des gens ne nous répondent pas car nous avons notre récompense malgré tout. )

and maybe that can help you, i always tell it to myself when someone make me wrong: i go to the masjid for Allah and not for people ... let's start the connection with my Creator... and then do as nobody exist lol...

and people are differents everywhere, in every masjid, in every country... so forgive those people they probably don't know!!!
and may Allah make you meet wonderfull muslims that make you forget those bad points.
May Allah Guide us and Bless us, amin amin amin.

take care

:salam2:

 

[Abu Talib]

I personally don't like this issue I think when we stand for ALLAAH does it matter what race or ethnicity we are from? We are just MUSLIM and united irrespective of caste, race etc.

I agree some people might treat in way described by brothers and sisters but I think they will not escape ALLAAH's wrath for such kind of treatment towards fellow Muslim Brothers/Sisters.

Our traditions and borders have made us apart and the sole cause of distinction among us. But when we are resurrected we won't be differentiated by black or white muslim or Indian or Pakistani Muslim etc.

 

[Elise]

just like a sister not wearing a hijab, are you going to take her seriously?

I'm a revert who didn't wear her hijab at first because of troubles at home. About not being taken seriously, I have never encountered that kind of attitude towards me, even without hijab, so I don't agree with that comment.
The attitude towards me when I was without hijab was one of admiration for having made the huge decision of becoming a muslim in the first place, and people know how difficult it often is with your non-muslim family, especially when still living with your parents, to wear hijab. From the beginning I only got positive responses, from everyone. Also from complete strangers when they heard I was muslim (as they couldn't see it without my hijab). They take me very seriously. They say; why else would she have become muslim, if she weren't serious about it?
I hope never to come across people who are so prejudice as to judge me on appearence. Whether white, black, brown, or purple, I don't care, and I'm lucky that no one I've ever met cared about that either.
I go to a masjid where I pray with Moroccans, Somali, Turks, Germans, and Dutch people. Never were there any problems, neither when going to another masjid. I do consider myself lucky when I read all this...

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

Salaamalaykum sister,

I am sorry to hear about the unfortunate encounters that you have had with other muslim sisters.

I would like to put my 2 cents on the bold quoted part. I hope you don't get offended though.

Our religion does not permit us to make superficial boundaries among ourself and discriminate on grounds of ethnicity, nationality, race etc.

But when it comes to marriage, I can understand why parents would want their son to marry someone from their culture. People from Indian subcontinent have only in the recent past began to settle in other countries and marrying outside the culture is something very unusual.

From the parents point of view, if their daughter in law is from the same culture or tribe, it is more easier for them to get adjusted with her and viceversa. There are many duties and customs that a daughter in law from the same culture would easily perform rather than some one from outside.

Also, the parents sometimes fear that their sons have for the moment not paid attention to marrying someone within their our culture, but would later suffer because it would lead to differences in raising children and other aspects of life.

I know that a very common reply to such an opinion is well " I am marrying their son, not them ". But it doesn't work that way. The daughter in law comes in to the family and has responsibilities towards her spouse's parents, siblings and extended family as well. And someone who is from outside the culture, it would be very hard on the person to adjust as well at the same time the parents.

Also we should note that Jabir RadiAllahu anh married an elderly woman so that his spouse could take care of his 7 (or 9) small sisters as his parents had passed away. And when he informed the Prophet (PBUH), the Prophet (PBUH) replied " You have done well " and gave him his approval that he had married while taking in to consideration the situation in his household, when he could have very well married a younger beautiful woman.

I hope this doesn't cause offense to anybody. I am just trying to share an opinion that I understand quite well from my own upbringing and background. There is always not a sinister reason like racism, prejudice etc when parents want their sons/daughters to get married within their culture. After all, parents love their offspring and care more than anyone else can.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

AsSalamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakatuhu

Ok i am from Indian subcontinent and i totally understand what brotherinsislam has to say. The parents are skeptical about the foreign culture and they know what to expect from their own culture and they want their kids to have an easy life without much complications. 95% of the respected families in my town follow the same ideology while few who are actually open to outsiders are looked down upon. Sectarianism is also the driving force for the parents to make such decisions. Like Hanafi's from north India don't prefer Sha'afi's from the south and vice versa because of the differences that's out there. Proper Deen with correct Aqeedah and Manhaj is not given importance but Tribalism.

 

[ubaid88]

As Salam Elekum Brother and Sister,

I love and respect all the western black/white reverts. You guys inspired me to learn Islam. Previously i was just a so called "normal Muslim". I was just following my parents. But after learning real Islam Quran and Authentic Ahadiths, Alhamdulillah i stopped innovated and other so called cultural practices which is still considered to be part of Islam. Real credit goes to guys like Yusuf Estes, Abdur Rahim Green, Zakir Naik, Billal Phillips and all others who inspired me. I am willing to do same Inshallah, spread message of Islam and do jihad against the haters(By debating them,). I also consider my self a revert like you guys.

Btw,
I am Ubaid ur Rehman from Pakistan. I am ethically urdu speaking pakhtun, ones who got mixed with Indians and migrated to Pakistan. Although we are not considered pakhtun by pashto speaking Pakhtuns.

@ShyHijabi, sister i know these practises very well. Like we are only encouraged to marry only Indian migrates(Mahajir) or else we are traitor to the family. Same is with most of ethinic group in Pakistan. They usuall dont marry among inter race.

I will inshallah marry an practicing and pious revert sister. If they dont mind marrying Pakistanis.lol

@khangul, I agree. You are great and honest Muslims, Mashallah. It is very sad the current situation going on Nwfp.

 

[safiya58]

:salam2:

I read some replies and some made me upset. I think many are acting to emotional..... someone here said: reverts are Muslim by choice while the born-Muslims are Muslim by chance. and futher:

"All of our Sahaba (companions of Prophet Mohammed) were REVERTS, and they are considered as the best generation of Muslims. And further more the ancestors of these so-called born-Muslims were also reverts. So how a Muslim can be disrespectful or rude to a revert is totally beyond me."

1) There are also people among the sahaba who was born muslims (for example Ali r.a.; Hasan and Husey r.a. The daughters of the prophet)
2) Did the sahaba ever make a deal of it who reverted first and who later on...?
3) revert muslims are not better than born muslims and born muslims also not better than reverts. it is the taqva of one what matters...... and only Allah knows how much taqwa is in a heart!!!!
4) what does it mean: this SO CALLED BORN MUSLIMS.... Does it refer to every born-muslim....? Also to me....? This is putting someone down. It means you do the same thing for what you critisize others....!
5) I´m a born muslim. I was never rude to any individuel. Be it he is a muslim or not...

 

[ubaid88]

:salam2:

I read some replies and some made me upset. I think many are acting to emotional..... someone here said: reverts are Muslim by choice while the born-Muslims are Muslim by chance. and futher:

"All of our Sahaba (companions of Prophet Mohammed) were REVERTS, and they are considered as the best generation of Muslims. And further more the ancestors of these so-called born-Muslims were also reverts. So how a Muslim can be disrespectful or rude to a revert is totally beyond me."

1) There are also people among the sahaba who was born muslims (for example Ali r.a.; Hasan and Husey r.a. The daughters of the prophet)
2) Did the sahaba ever make a deal of it who reverted first and who later on...?
3) revert muslims are not better than born muslims and born muslims also not better than reverts. it is the taqva of one what matters...... and only Allah knows how much taqwa is in a heart!!!!
4) what does it mean: this SO CALLED BORN MUSLIMS.... Does it refer to every born-muslim....? Also to me....? This is putting someone down. It means you do the same thing for what you critisize others....!
5) I´m a born muslim. I was never rude to any individuel. Be it he is a muslim or not...

:salam2:


I was only speaking about people I have encoutered in my life uptill now. This my experience, this may not be generally true.

I meant that i was like traditional Muslim, doing things that my parent taught me, without using my mind that why iam supposed to do this. I was made to perform them to do by force by some extend, Islam is practiced like tradition not religion. Like girls in my country are usually forced to cover themselves, they dont know its importance like most reverts sisters do. If your are forced to something later you are tend to resist it naturally. That is why most of us are not religious and they are very allergenic to even hear about Islam.
I remember a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad, i dont remember exact wording. It state before day of judgment there will people who will recite Quran but it will not get down from their throat(ie they will not understand or apply teachings of Quran). The most of people I noticed in my country are doing same. They dont read even the translation. They just recite Quran without knowing that what is going.

Again the thing i have mentioned is going out in my country Pakistan and i don't know rest of world. It think Inshallah this will make things clear.

 

[FreeMind.]

To me, the skin colour, race, nationality of a person, doesn't bother me as long
as they're true believers in the one and only Almighty Allah(SWT).

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

:salam2:


I was only speaking about people I have encoutered in my life uptill now. This my experience, this may not be generally true.

I meant that i was like traditional Muslim, doing things that my parent taught me, without using my mind that why iam supposed to do this. I was made to perform them to do by force by some extend, Islam is practiced like tradition not religion. Like girls in my country are usually forced to cover themselves, they dont know its importance like most reverts sisters do. If your are forced to something later you are tend to resist it naturally. That is why most of us are not religious and they are very allergenic to even hear about Islam.
I remember a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad, i dont remember exact wording. It state before day of judgment there will people who will recite Quran but it will not get down from their throat(ie they will not understand or apply teachings of Quran). The most of people I noticed in my country are doing same. They dont read even the translation. They just recite Quran without knowing that what is going.

Again the thing i have mentioned is going out in my country Pakistan and i don't know rest of world. It think Inshallah this will make things clear.

And they feel its kind of a burden to cover and its true that most don't even know the reason why they are supposed to cover and SAME WITH MEN. Because they are told not to read the meaning of the Qur'an as that's only done by ulama's. InShort they follow corrupted version of Islaam without following pious predecessors and doing taqleed IMO.

 

[revert2007]

Assalamualikum to everyone.

I am wondering where this dicussion is going to take us. the owner of the thread is not a Muslim and am not sure when was his last log in.But he has sucessfully devite Muslims' mind from discussing important things than things which can cause conflicts among each other.

Never ever give this opportunity to non-Muslims.we have so many issues to be disscussed and to solve.

Can we enter paradise when we hurt each other?There is no need for justifiying each other's answer and opinion as Allah is The All Knowing.


We are not achiving anything by proving which enthnicity is good and which country is treating bad and so on.The best person in the eye of Allah is the person with takwa.

Why would you bother when people treat you bad when it is not gonna bring and benefits to you except your loosing too much of your energy?

I hope wise Muslims in this forum can ignore this thread and I kindly request Mods to close ths thread.

Assalamualikum.

 

[eminbey]

I'm white ans I never thought abt this issue before

 

[safiya58]

Assalamualikum to everyone.

I am wondering where this dicussion is going to take us. the owner of the thread is not a Muslim and am not sure when was his last log in.But he has sucessfully devite Muslims' mind from discussing important things than things which can cause conflicts among each other.

Never ever give this opportunity to non-Muslims.we have so many issues to be disscussed and to solve.

Can we enter paradise when we hurt each other?There is no need for justifiying each other's answer and opinion as Allah is The All Knowing.


We are not achiving anything by proving which enthnicity is good and which country is treating bad and so on.The best person in the eye of Allah is the person with takwa.

Why would you bother when people treat you bad when it is not gonna bring and benefits to you except your loosing too much of your energy?

I hope wise Muslims in this forum can ignore this thread and I kindly request Mods to close ths thread.

Assalamualikum.

:salam2:

well said sister. In fact this discussion is only harming us and we should refrain from saying things which are of no benefit... once again we´ve witnessed how the ummah can be divited so easily.... just a simple discussion and our feelings for eachother are gone.... we are not we anymore but we become "us" and "them"...(born-muslims and revert-muslims) suddenly. where is the muslim esprit de corps....? Well however at least there was also people among us who were wise enough... jazak Allahu ckair sister for the eye-opener!