Gambling legalization issue in Indonesia

Rustandi

الفقير الى الله
:salam2:


VIVAnews - The government policy of prohibiting gambling has started to be opposed. Accompanied by their attorney, Farhat Abbas, a vegetable vendor, Suyud and his friend Liem Dat Kui proposed a judicial review to legalize gambling.

Suyud was arrested for gambling with Rp 58,000 of cash as the evidence. He was detained for four months and a week. He was subjected to the article, which he is currently going against.

Meanwhile, Liem Dat Kui, a registered Indonesian citizen of Chinese descent, has another reason. He assumes gambling is part of his tradition.

Abbas has asked the Constitutional Court to grant his clients’ request by reviewing Article 303 paragraph 1, 2 and 3, Article 303 paragraph 1,2 of Criminal Code and paragraph 1,2,3,4 and 5 of Law no 7 /1974 on Gambling, which are considered a restriction against human rights. The judicial review was submitted on April 21, 2010 and passed on to the Constitutional Court.

Actually, although it sparked controversies and polemics, gambling used to be legal in Indonesia. During the era of former Jakarta governor Ali Sadikin, gambling was legalized to support the development.

Sadikin, who led Jakarta for 11 years (1966-1977), realized that ‘hot money’ could be used for positive purposes. Therefore, Bang Ali, his nickname, decided to legalize the activity. A casino, which was funded by entrepreneurs Apyang and Yo Putshong, was later established.

The result turned out to be tremendous. Jakarta’s development budget, which used to be only Rp 66 million, soared to more than Rp 89 billion in ten years. That means the average amount of budget per year was about Rp 890 million, going up by over 1000 percent. Bang Ali soon built schools, medical clinics, and market places. Jakarta was even polished to make it look more attractive.

According to VIVAnews’ research, Bang Ali also set a lottery ticketing system that was called Toto and Nalo (National Lottery).

The system continued to be developed until the New Order regime, for example to raise funds for the 7th National Sports Competition in Surabaya in 1969. Surabaya regional government was issuing Lotto or Lotres Totalisator. There was also Toto KONI, which was later revoked in 1974.

However, the government was constantly figuring out the ways to legalize gambling. In 1976, the Social Affairs Department conducted a comparison study in England to issue a forecast that was considered not inducing excessive gambling because it was only a prediction. But, taking into account all of the impacts, including possible losses and advantaged, the forecast was not issued until seven years later.

In December 1985, Soccer Porkas Raffle Tickets were legalized, distributed and sold. Porkas aimed to raise money to support Indonesian sports development and education. Porkas was established based on Law no 22/ 1954 on Lottery. The tickets made their way up to regencies but children under 17 years old were not allowed to sell, distribute and purchase them.

By the end of 1987, Porkas changed its name into Sports Donations Raffle Coupons (KSOB) and were more realistic. But, worried of possible negative impacts due to the large amount of villagers funds take away, the coupon sales were stopped in 1989.

At the same time, a new type of game called Social Donation Prizes (SDSB), which was also banned in 1993.

--

Translated by: Nataya Ermanti


source http://en.vivanews.com/news/read/146267-history_of_legal_gambling_in_indonesia

and here's another article regarding the prohibition by the Indonesian Ulema Council or MUI.

http://en.vivanews.com/news/read/146024-gambling_absolutely_prohibited__clerics

a couple of hours ago i watched a debate about this on TV, those who support the legalization argued that gambling has already become a "disease" in all levels of society, from becak driver to conglomerates and politicians, so to treat this disease we (as in they not me) have to quarantine it by localizing it so that it can only be accessed by certain groups of people, just like malaysia and singapore did.

*sigh* seriously, this country's just keep getting better and better, in corruption that is. secularism and liberalism infected more people everyday, they don't even realize that this is a talbees of iblees to permit something that Allah forbids wal 'iyadhu billah no matter how they justify it.

i want your opinion about this especially from those who live in malaysia and singapore who goes through the same thing as us.
 

miq1

Junior Member
Praise be to Allah (The Glorified and Exalted).

Muslims in Muslim populated lands need to establish Islamic Laws. Those among you that are educated and clever minded individuals need to join political parties and create reforms to better your nations in terms of justice and bring them to an Islamic model. You need to get together with like minded individuals and pool your resources (funds, etc) and create television channels giving lectures about Islam, introduce an Islamic identity and education into the education system, etc. And you need to at anytime, debate those that want to deviate from an Islamic model and expose their intentions and personal agendas and turn the majority of the population against them. This can be done by exposing the dangers and decadence of nations that allow gambling, prostitution, alcohol, drugs, etc, by showing television programs exposing the destroyed lives of peoples that were plunged into such vices, etc.

The worst mistake for the Muslims is to think, "Oh well, let other people do as they will, and my family and I will go our own way and live our lives the way we wish." The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) told a parable of a ship with people on the upper deck and those on the lower levels. The people in the lower level wanted water, they asked those above them, but were refused. Therefore, the people at the lower deck created a whole in the bottom of the ship in order to get water. As a result, the entire ship sank. Allah (The Exalted) also mentioned that he will punish an entire population if the people of right conduct refuse to stop the sinners from engaging in transgression.

Muslims should not have this defeated mentality of "Oh well, lets just have patience." Patience is the reliance of those that have strived and put forward all of their effort, then they have patience for the Decree of Allah (The Exalted). If the first Muslims behaved in this manner and did not engage in debating the non-Muslims in Arabia and spreading Islam to them and protecting the religion from its enemies, and spending from their own pockets to help fellow Muslims and sacrifice their time and effort to make the religion prevail in Arabia; there would have been no Islam today. Muslims should not be deterred by some individuals that do not want Islamic Laws, this is the struggle that is normal and part of this life. This is part of the trial of this world and is to be expected.

Muslims in Indonesia, need to understand that they are responsible for the Laws in their country before Allah (The Exalted). They need to have public engagement and place pressure upon the government by calling representatives and going to their offices, as well as by holding rallies and having people that have had their lives and wealth taken by a gambling addiction, speak publicly about the evils of gambling. All Muslims need to be aware of this verse of the Qur'an, "...Whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are unbelievers (i.e. no longer Muslim)" [5:44].


And Allah (The Exalted) Knows Best.
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Assalamua'laykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Akhi Setsuna, do you have any organisation that will deal with corruption cases? Well, just to share with all, here in Malaysia, we have the ACA (Anti-Corruption Agency) or in Malay: 'Suruhanjaya Pencegahan Rasuah Malaysia'. Before this, it is known to be under the government sector but now AIA is not under the government anymore. This is not to be biased to any political parties.

And to tell you the truth, my dad who works with the AIA said that corruption is happening very widely even within the government. There have been many cases where people with title such as 'Datuk..' been caught commiting corruptions. Yeah, its pretty much the same here in Malaysia though I heard that Indonesia is worst in corruption cases (No offence).

Well, I am not much into politics so thats a bit I can share here.

Praise be to Allah (The Glorified and Exalted).

Muslims in Muslim populated lands need to establish Islamic Laws. Those among you that are educated and clever minded individuals need to join political parties and create reforms to better your nations in terms of justice and bring them to an Islamic model. You need to get together with like minded individuals and pool your resources (funds, etc) and create television channels giving lectures about Islam, introduce an Islamic identity and education into the education system, etc. And you need to at anytime, debate those that want to deviate from an Islamic model and expose their intentions and personal agendas and turn the majority of the population against them. This can be done by exposing the dangers and decadence of nations that allow gambling, prostitution, alcohol, drugs, etc, by showing television programs exposing the destroyed lives of peoples that were plunged into such vices, etc.

Brother Miq, just to let you know, here in Malaysia, we have/had Ula'maa or people who studied in Islamic fields joined the political parties here. The parties here are divided into many - we have UMNO, PAS, MIC, MCA, DAP. I am not going to be biased here but since years ago, the only party that seem to be fighting for the establishment of Islamic Share'ah in the country is PAS. But what I understand, PAS nowadays isnt like how PAS was before. PAS was formed many years ago, before the Independence of Malaysia. And the members of the party are mostly from Islamic backgrounds.

But you see, politics here in Malaysia nowadays - hmmn, what should I say - is quite a mess. I am not anywhere crticizing any parties but thats the reality.

The worst mistake for the Muslims is to think, "Oh well, let other people do as they will, and my family and I will go our own way and live our lives the way we wish." The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) told a parable of a ship with people on the upper deck and those on the lower levels. The people in the lower level wanted water, they asked those above them, but were refused. Therefore, the people at the lower deck created a whole in the bottom of the ship in order to get water. As a result, the entire ship sank. Allah (The Exalted) also mentioned that he will punish an entire population if the people of right conduct refuse to stop the sinners from engaging in transgression.

Jazaakallahu khayr for the words in bolded. Sadly, I hear the words of 'to mind one own bussiness' here (in this forum) more often than any other places. Well yeah, again, it is due to differences of backgrounds and views etc, but still, I do believe that as Muslims, we are all the same and that we should hold on to the same values firmly.

Muslims should not have this defeated mentality of "Oh well, lets just have patience." Patience is the reliance of those that have strived and put forward all of their effort, then they have patience for the Decree of Allah (The Exalted). If the first Muslims behaved in this manner and did not engage in debating the non-Muslims in Arabia and spreading Islam to them and protecting the religion from its enemies, and spending from their own pockets to help fellow Muslims and sacrifice their time and effort to make the religion prevail in Arabia; there would have been no Islam today. Muslims should not be deterred by some individuals that do not want Islamic Laws, this is the struggle that is normal and part of this life. This is part of the trial of this world and is to be expected.

I do believe that we are sometimes confused or misunderstand where to let our patience apply. Many times if we see an evil (Al-Mungkaar), instead of forbiding it to the best we can, some will say - Oh, lets have patience and make dua'a for that Muslim sister/brother. I guess that is one of the reason Al-Mungkaar is widely spread among our Muslims community itself.

Muslims in Indonesia, need to understand that they are responsible for the Laws in their country before Allah (The Exalted). They need to have public engagement and place pressure upon the government by calling representatives and going to their offices, as well as by holding rallies and having people that have had their lives and wealth taken by a gambling addiction, speak publicly about the evils of gambling. All Muslims need to be aware of this verse of the Qur'an, "...Whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are unbelievers (i.e. no longer Muslim)" [5:44].

And Allah (The Exalted) Knows Best.

Thank you for the reminder above.

Baarakaallahu feekumaa.

P.S : To Brother Miq, I dont mean to quote your every paragraphs as in to refute it, but I very much agree with what you said. Just to clarify it to you.

Waa'alaykummusalam wa rahmatullah.
 

Rustandi

الفقير الى الله
:salam2:


Hmmm, interesting... i never thought that this thread is going to develop this way, there are sooo many points that i have to cover up.

Akhi Setsuna, do you have any organisation that will deal with corruption cases? Well, just to share with all, here in Malaysia, we have the ACA (Anti-Corruption Agency) or in Malay: 'Suruhanjaya Pencegahan Rasuah Malaysia'. Before this, it is known to be under the government sector but now AIA is not under the government anymore. This is not to be biased to any political parties.


Errmmm... sister, actually what i meant by "corruption" is moral degradation of the people, as in corruption of the soul.

but talking about political corruption, then yes unfortunately indonesia actually still holds the trophy for the most corrupted country in pacific asia, and don't worry about me being offended because sometimes we use this as a joke material.

as for the the organization that deals with it, there is KPK (Komisi Pemberantasan Korupsi or Corruption Eradication Commission) which is on the brink of destruction right now because the existence of a high level conspiracy against it, for more detail try google "KPK Conspiracy" or "KPK vs POLRI". see this article for example http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/11/02/kpk-case-conspiracy-and-impunity.html


@brother miq1

Jazaakumullahu Khayral jazaa', i agree with many things that you said, especially about creating our own television channel, that's fun i guess :).

then there's some details that i don't agree as well, only a little though so don't worry.

but since its very late here and i'm getting tired i'll continue this tomorrow insha Allah...
 

abu'muhammad

Junior Member
Assalaamu alaykum,

The effort to legalize what is prohibited is quite bad and sad. the line says "govt was constantly making efforts to legalize the gambling". what to say about that.

The people will have then easy haraam money. Later the worst is addiction that people hardly come out.
 

mas_adi

Junior Member
a couple of hours ago i watched a debate about this on TV, those who support the legalization argued that gambling has already become a "disease" in all levels of society, from becak driver to conglomerates and politicians, so to treat this disease we (as in they not me) have to quarantine it by localizing it so that it can only be accessed by certain groups of people, just like malaysia and singapore did.
:salam2:

If gambling becomes legal in Indonesia, then where would the money goes ?. To the people ?.

No, no, we can't eat haram money.

According to the people in our place, if we eat haram money, "Moal oge jadi daging, kalakah dosa we nu aya mah". (Will not turn into flesh, but becomes sin).
 

Rustandi

الفقير الى الله
:salam2:

If gambling becomes legal in Indonesia, then where would the money goes ?. To the people ?.

No, no, we can't eat haram money.

According to the people in our place, if we eat haram money, "Moal oge jadi daging, kalakah dosa we nu aya mah". (Will not turn into flesh, but becomes sin).
:salam2:


haha i can't i believe i would find a fellow Bandung citizen here in TTI masha Allah even though it appears you're a javanese but it seems your familiar with sundanese culture :)

this matter is discussed all over the tv and newspaper, where've you been brother?

some people who support the legalization or they would say "localization" said this has happened before in Indonesia in Jakarta when Ali Sadikin was still the governor (1966-1977), and the tax from the gambling sites or casinos or whatever contributes greatly to the development of Jakarta, so why not do the same they said, its still better than having some goverment officials who stole money from the state budget and spend it on a casino in Las Vegas. btw Ali Sadikin also the one who build the Kramat Tunggak complex as a localization for prostitution.

so actually it makes the money circulation filled with shubuhaat, a small case example: if there's a one mall who were built by the taxes taken from the gambling business, filled with some restaurants and food court, and people eat there everyday.. imagine the damage done to the people even if they are unaccountable for it.

Brother Miq, just to let you know, here in Malaysia, we have/had Ula'maa or people who studied in Islamic fields joined the political parties here. The parties here are divided into many - we have UMNO, PAS, MIC, MCA, DAP. I am not going to be biased here but since years ago, the only party that seem to be fighting for the establishment of Islamic Share'ah in the country is PAS. But what I understand, PAS nowadays isnt like how PAS was before. PAS was formed many years ago, before the Independence of Malaysia. And the members of the party are mostly from Islamic backgrounds.


here we have some "islamic" parties as well but mostly just by name only, the most prominent one is PKS (Partai Keadilan Sejahtera translated to Prosperous Justice Party) in terms of belief they are Qutbiyyin or Ikhwanul Muslimin (muslim brotherhood) followers of Sayyid Qutb and Hassan Al-Banna. even though the original Ikhwanul Muslimin are against joining the parliament.

see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperous_Justice_Party



i was thinking of responding to brother miq1 regarding joining political parties and involving in parliament, but its very complex and i think its not wise to post it in thread so i'll refrain from doing so.
 

mas_adi

Junior Member
Wa' alaikumsalam.
haha i can't i believe i would find a fellow Bandung citizen here in TTI masha Allah even though it appears you're a javanese but it seems your familiar with sundanese culture :)
My parents are Javanese, but I was born in Bogor. Even I can't speak Javanese.
this matter is discussed all over the tv and newspaper, where've you been brother?
In my home. :biggrin:
some people who support the legalization or they would say "localization" said this has happened before in Indonesia in Jakarta when Ali Sadikin was still the governor (1966-1977), and the tax from the gambling sites or casinos or whatever contributes greatly to the development of Jakarta, so why not do the same they said, its still better than having some goverment officials who stole money from the state budget and spend it on a casino in Las Vegas. btw Ali Sadikin also the one who build the Kramat Tunggak complex as a localization for prostitution.
Ali Sadikin had passed away. May Allah forgive his sins.

By the way, prostitution area Kramat Tunggak has turned into Jakarta Islamic Centre, Alhamdulillah.
so actually it makes the money circulation filled with shubuhaat, a small case example: if there's a one mall who were built by the taxes taken from the gambling business, filled with some restaurants and food court, and people eat there everyday.. imagine the damage done to the people even if they are unaccountable for it.
Shubuhaat ?.
No, brother. That money circulation is filled with haram, not shubuhaat.

Shubuhaat means doubt or misunderstanding, also means something that unclear, or between halal and haram. But money from gambling is clearly haram.
 

Rustandi

الفقير الى الله
Wa' alaikumsalam.

My parents are Javanese, but I was born in Bogor. Even I can't speak Javanese.

masha Allah another case of "javanese by blood but sundanese by soul" :D

In my home. :biggrin:

i see, figures. :)

Ali Sadikin had passed away. May Allah forgive his sins.

i know, ameen for that akhi.

By the way, prostitution area Kramat Tunggak has turned into Jakarta Islamic Centre, Alhamdulillah.

i didn't know that, alhamdulillah i guess.

Shubuhaat ?.
No, brother. That money circulation is filled with haram, not shubuhaat

Shubuhaat means doubt or misunderstanding, also means something that unclear, or between halal and haram. But money from gambling is clearly haram.

yes i know, what i meant is the since the haram money have been mixed up with halal money it is hard to tell which is haraam and which is not, if the tax taken from the gambling business already goes into the state budget and mixed with other income that is halal, can you tell which is which and which is not? wait a minute is that confusing? cause i am :D, anyway that's what i meant by shubuhaat meaning its becoming something that is hard to discern, but let's refrain on talking about it, this is a very sensitive matter and requires fatwa from a scholar.
 
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