Question about a Hadith

alf2

Islam is a way of life
A non-Muslim asked me about this hadith entry she found printed in a Christian paper she received. Its a first for me since in times of war I thought that Muslims were to keep safe women and children no matter their creed.

Hadith in Question is: Bukhari (52:256)

"The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."


Jazakallah khair in advance.
 

Idris16

Junior Member
A non-Muslim asked me about this hadith entry she found printed in a Christian paper she received. Its a first for me since in times of war I thought that Muslims were to keep safe women and children no matter their creed.

Hadith in Question is: Bukhari (52:256)

"The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."


Jazakallah khair in advance.
Salam alaykum warahmatullah wabarakatuh!

It's not as people may think it is about.

It's about attacking them unintentionally, that is if we didn't know if they were there. Whether you are unsure then I don't know.

- The first opinion: Killing women and children is not allowed under any circumstances, even if the Kufaar use their women and children as human shields. And this is the madh-hab of Malik and Al Ouzaey. (This opinion is not well supported by evidences.)

- The Second opinion: The weak (i.e. women, children and the elderly) are not to be aimed at, unless they fight, or mix with the fighters, in such a way as to make it impossible for the [Muslims] to fight without killing them. And this is the opinion of the Shafi'ee's and the Hanafis.

While the Shafi'ee's agreed that while, this is the general rule or guideline for war, there are special cases and situations, as is proven by the following hadeeth. As Sab Ibn Juthamah said: "The Prophet (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam) was asked about attacking the Mushrikeen at night time, where women and children get hit (un-intentionally). He (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam) replied: "They are from them. (i.e. the attack should not be stopped because of the presence of women and children.)" [Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, At Tirmidhee etc.]

[I took this from the work of Shaykh Abdullah Azzam Rahimahullah]

So that hadith is about collateral damage. I haven't heard by anyone using the hadith you showed as proof for killing non-combatants. I will post about this matter inshAllah. Look at what Bukhaari named the chapter for that hadith:)
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

After mentioning the opinions held by scholars and which one you feel inclined to (as the truth), why not ask her about these passages from the Bible?

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
[Numbers 31:17-18]

And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
[Ezekiel 9:5-6]

And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
[Joshua 6:17-21]

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
[1 Samuel 15:3]

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
[Hosea 13:16]

Alhamdulillah, Islaam truly is a religion of mercy!!! Many "Judeo-Christian" countries of the West are meting out these acts of pure savagery and then covering their deeds and then put the spot-light on a few bands of wrong-doers in the Muslim world. We won't forget Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Bosnia or anywhere else where such Biblical verses were implemented, and the UN just sat there and watched.

Look at Islaam however. We're totally prohibited from these heinous crimes, yet we are told that in an event that there happens to be women and children in a place under attack, that it doesn't need to be held back because of their presence. On the other hand, in the Bible we read that infants should be diced and slashed?

Allah knows best.
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
Are Christian Papers that obsessed lol

Have you ever seen the 700 Club or read any of their news? Yes they are.

Since I am no longer a practicing Christian (obviously, lol) I dont get any papers like this anymore, but I have read many pamphlets with incredibly hateful remarks against neo-Pagans, Muslims and Jews.

@ Idris16: Thank you for insight to this passage. One thing that confused me was that its source was quoted strange and I could not find it in my hadith at all. After reading your post & the hadith near it, i feel I can explain this confidently now.

@ Al-Kashmiri: The Bible has many incredibly haneous passages, there is no doubt. But Christians defend that even though the Bible (especially the Old Testament) has these passages they dont follow the Bible literally anymore, and that the Bible is out of date.

Actually, this is why Christians are critical of Islam. They say that like the Bible, the Qur'an was fine for Muhammad's (saw) time but is no longer useful in our advanced society.

Also, I try not to point out the passages after they question me about the Qur'an, I dont want them to think I am saying..."Well your Holy book is worse!" You know? I want to explain the Qur'an to them, to show the Qur'an has nothing to hide and is perfect. Alhamdulilah.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Have you ever seen the 700 Club or read any of their news? Yes they are.

Since I am no longer a practicing Christian (obviously, lol) I dont get any papers like this anymore, but I have read many pamphlets with incredibly hateful remarks against neo-Pagans, Muslims and Jews.

@ Idris16: Thank you for insight to this passage. One thing that confused me was that its source was quoted strange and I could not find it in my hadith at all. After reading your post & the hadith near it, i feel I can explain this confidently now.

@ Al-Kashmiri: The Bible has many incredibly haneous passages, there is no doubt. But Christians defend that even though the Bible (especially the Old Testament) has these passages they dont follow the Bible literally anymore, and that the Bible is out of date.

Actually, this is why Christians are critical of Islam. They say that like the Bible, the Qur'an was fine for Muhammad's (saw) time but is no longer useful in our advanced society.

Also, I try not to point out the passages after they question me about the Qur'an, I dont want them to think I am saying..."Well your Holy book is worse!" You know? I want to explain the Qur'an to them, to show the Qur'an has nothing to hide and is perfect. Alhamdulilah.

Yeah I know what you mean and do agree.

But the point remains, even though they don't act on the bible literally, the corrupt amongst them are still doing these acts - that's what I was trying to point out. You're right, if you were to quote them it'd be too much of a 'but your book says this' kind of pointless debate, if you know what I mean! However, nevertheless its useful to know.
 

Idris16

Junior Member
So that hadith is about collateral damage. I haven't heard by anyone using the hadith you showed as proof for killing non-combatants. I will post about this matter inshAllah. Look at what Bukhaari named the chapter for that hadith:)
I happened to see this thread, seems like I didnt return to it.

I think a quick simple response is to say what chapter Imam Muslim put them ahadith under;.
Chapter 9: PERMISSIBILITY OF KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN THE NIGHT RAIDS, PROVIDED IT IS NOT DELIBERATE

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...m/019.smt.html


And the chapter before it;

Chapter 8: PROHIBITION OF KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN WAR

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4319:
It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that a woman was found killed in one of the battles fought by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He disapproved of the killing of women and children.​

Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.​




Allaahu a'lam.

That link above doesnt work, so try this link and see the name of the chapter! http://www.hadithcollection.com/sah...sahih-muslim-book-019-hadith-number-4323.html

Sorry for mentioning al-Bukhari, I meant Imam Muslim, the chapter is from Imam Muslim and not Imam al-Bukhari.
 
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