New Job Wants Me To Trim My Beard. What Do I Do?

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samiha

---------
Staff member
Assalaamu 'alaykum

To the brother who started this thread, MashaAllaah akhi, May Allaah bless you for your sincere intentions to do good, and striving for the best outcome as a Muslim. It definitely is a tough situation you're in, and I also would say that if it is possible to refer to someone knowledgeable in your area that would be the best option. Also as you said you intend to speak to human resources, and I hope that works out well. Obviously the best result would be the one in which you don't have to compromise aspects of your Deen, and I hope Allaah makes things easy for you in that regard.

On all the you-tube videos the sheiks have cute little beards...

........
.................

Say what?! I honestly don't believe I just read that on here.

I believe in this instance silence is best for me. I cannot honestly say I agree with your opinions on this matter, or the connotations thereof, and my feelings are very different. However for the sake of remaining on topic, I say I hope the brother all the best and that inshaAllaah something will come up and I ask that Allaah make things easy for him.

Have you prayed Salaatul Istikhaarah for the acceptance of this job brother? If not, I would recommend it... then make what you feel is the most correct decision.

wasalaam
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Wa `alaykkum salaam wa rahmatullaah brother. I really advise you to ask a scholar rather than some random people on a forum.

This is more of a specific issue than a general issue, so please find a scholar in your local area and ask him this question.

If you are going to ask in the internet you will recieve all sorts of answer, some of them very weird. There maybe people who may not even know the basics of this deen, yet giving fataawa. The internet world is one weird world.

BarakAllaahu feek
Wassalaamu `alaykkum

:salam2:

Yes this is the right advise even I agree with you bro Thariq2005 its better and best to ask a scholar. So go for it bro Brian.

If its hard for you to distinguish sunnah or fardh just think that you have something precious and you want to safeguard it at all cost.

{And whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty)}, [Soorah at-Talaaq, Aayah 2].
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
I am really shocked at the comments in this thread. People need to re-think before posting a post. Stop giving your "own" opinions, cos you will stand in front of the Lord of Worlds one day, and you will have to answer Him (Subhaanahu wa T`aala)

I aint judging here but words like this "And as a woman..the last thing I need to see if your dinner on your beard..that is rather offensive in the workplace." is a very very dangerous statement to make. So please, I ask you to re-consider before posting. As a muslim (either the beard is fard or sunnah) we love all that the Messenger of Allaah :saw2: did.
 

Idris16

Junior Member
Asaalamu Alaikum...

Brothers & sisters, I need advice. I've been looking for another job for months. I finally found one. A federal (U.S.) job with great pay and benefits.

I thought it was PERFECT, until they told me I would need to trim (not completely) shave my beard.

What should I do?
:wasalam:

A brother on YT from New York, Just told me he lost his job because he didn't cut his beard subhânAllâh.

Abu Hurayrah "reported that the ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisra, sent two envoys to the Messenger :saw:. When they came into his presence,he noticed that they had shaved their beards and let their moustaches grow big. Hating their ugly appearance, he turned his face away and said, “Woe be to you, who told you to do so?” They replied: “Our lord (Kisra) did!” The Messenger :saw: responded: “But my Lord, exalted and glorified be He, has commanded me to spare my beard and trim my moustaches.” [Recorded by Ibn Jarir at-Tabari, Ibn Sa’d, and Ibn Bishran. Verified to be hasan (good) by al-Albani (Fiqh us-Sirah by al-Ghazali p. 359)]
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister...I am of an age where I can say a man looks cute. That means there is no and I repeat for you no sexual connotation. This means it is not offensive. It amuses me that everything is so sexual to many members.
That is a reference to a man that keeps himself clean. You tube is the media and people prep for the media. No-one wants to see an ugly man. So I called a spade a spade.

And as to the respondent who is upset about dinner on a beard...it is gross. That is the reason companies devote time to have professional development courses. You are about to meet a major client and you have food on your bread. As a client that would be enough to turn me away.

How is that dangerous. It is disgusting but not dangerous. I do not even want to ponder where that came into the picture.

People..brothers and sisters..we are discussing a person who is going to work in an American company. Men and women work together. Men have to consider and are told what is appropriate and inappropriate.

Grooming is an important issue in the states. We are crazy about being clean. The reason this post is even here is that the bread issue is about being clean.

In the US if a beard is not neat and trim ( a professor's beard) then it becomes a class issue. Unkempt beards have a aura that is negative.

Now, can we please let the brother get a job.
 

saif

Junior Member
Assalaamu 'alaykum

You have made this claim before sister, and I really have to ask where you have heard it and on what basis? So if we say the rules of Islaam are lax on an individual in a non-Muslim environment, where do we draw the line? ....

wasalaam

:salam2: sister Samiha,

If your would consider applying sunnah (or may be even fard) of husni dhann about Aapa, your attention would be automatically drawn towards the given flexibility in Islamic injunctions, depending on the difficulties. Although, saying kufr, like in the case of Ammar bin Yasir (RA) or eating pork to save one's life, are extreme examples, but the logic remains. Aapa's point was, that since it is generally difficult to practice islam in non muslim countries, so we should be able to use the relaxation from within those injunctions. Now, where one draws his or her line is none of our business. Our duty is to explain things clearly and define all the exceptions it contains in times of hardship. When that hardship level is reached for the one is a matter between him/her and God.


:wasalam:
 

Brian

New Member
Thank you all. I have learned a lot from this thread. (Minus the ruckus). I went to orientation and I didn't get to speak with the HR rep one on one, but there was NO mention of my beard.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Welcome to the world of TTI. Just use common sense. And good luck on the job. Insha'Alla, you have learned something today.

Sister...common sense. In the world we have to make choices everyday. When you have to work to survive..life takes on a different meaning. That is a reason in Islam, we are constantly reminded of intention.

You do not have to be a scholar to breathe. I do not have to be a scholar to be a Muslim.

Islam is an individual choice. You know when to draw the line. It is common sense. Islam is not rule bound and in a box. If that were the case we would not have to worry about choices and free will. Islam is not a police state. We are not ruled by the haram police.

Each life is individual. Each individual has a relationship with Allah subhana talla that is interpersonal. The depth and breath of that relationship is private.

No matter what,Sister, no-one can judge me nor can anyone tell me what to do. It is individual, interpersonal, and private.

Something about an atoms worth of good...let your left hand know not what your right hand is doing.
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister...I am of an age where I can say a man looks cute. That means there is no and I repeat for you no sexual connotation. This means it is not offensive. It amuses me that everything is so sexual to many members.
That is a reference to a man that keeps himself clean. You tube is the media and people prep for the media. No-one wants to see an ugly man. So I called a spade a spade.

wa 'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

I want to make this brief as again this is not what the thread is about, but since it was addressed to me, I will clearly say that nowhere in my post did I refer to or imply that my reaction was in any way due to an issue of the comment being 'sexual'. It saddens me that it was infered that way. I was just surprised that it was a point being brought up in a more serious question about a brother and his situation.

I do however take offence at the classifications of 'ugly'. Wallaah and I will state this for all of the members here, that a man who loves the Sunnah and out of this desire grows his beard is more beloved to me, and more beautiful to me than the one whose desire is to remain 'clean' and 'tidy' by western standards, even if the former is classed as less 'neat' by the people. I agree that being unkept is against what Islaam teaches, but I will never inshaAllaah put a condition that "cute" or "ugly" depends on the size or neatness of ones beard.

And I don't care if he's the ugliest man on earth, if he has correct and sound knowledge then this precedes him and adorns him in beauty, and I would by ALL means Love to see him.

ALSO as a second side point, accidental food, or as you put it, 'dinner' on a beard is not gross. It's often cute and funny at meal times, but gross is furthest from my mind. And as a fyi ... just because a man has a longer beard, doesn't mean he doesnt keep it neat, doesn't mean food always falls on it, doesn't mean he doesn't look in a mirror before going out or meeting clients, doesn't mean mold starts growing in it due to the contineous built up of food falling on it and being left there... etc. Trust me, I grew up with it and my father probably takes more care of his beard than I do the hair on my head!

If your would consider applying sunnah (or may be even fard) of husni dhann about Aapa, your attention would be automatically drawn towards the given flexibility in Islamic injunctions, depending on the difficulties....

I honestly don't see where I have thought ill of her or her words? I spoke not out of spite or malice, and did not have even in my mind to think wrong of her so please give me the same considerations that you place on others. My only intention was to ask where this statement or understanding came from. For if we advise others on here, our words and opinions should be according to Islaam, so surely this has a foundation somewhere in Islaam?

And if you too had extended that thought to the rest of my post you would see I did acknowledge the existance of situations of leniency:

The point is, being a Muslim is a state of being, which I've not seen being conditional to a place or a time. We are at the same state of Islaam in every place. Some places it's easier, and some harder. Yes understandably there may be concessions based on instance or trouble or a requirement, but that doesn't mean it extends to just living in a non-Muslim environment!

But even the examples you stated dear brother were not because they were living in a non-Muslim country, but because the situation prompted it. And akhi, is our duty not also to encourage and enjoin righteousness? So how would we do that if each person had their own level of laxity and implementation in non-Muslim countries?

Allaah knows best, I don't wish to over-step my bounds so that's all I will say. Yes I will freely admit I don't agree with some opinions, but that doesn't mean I have thought badly of anyone, and if they feel I have then I do ask their pardon.

Thank you all. I have learned a lot from this thread. (Minus the ruckus). I went to orientation and I didn't get to speak with the HR rep one on one, but there was NO mention of my beard.

May Allaah bless you akhi, life is truly all about learning, whether it be on this forum or otherwise, and I truly hope that you bring benefit from this and yes avoid the 'ruckus' .... I do apologize for my share of it.

As a question, in this case is no mention a good thing or a bad thing? Supposing it's a good thing, then alhamdulillaah! If not, then do see if you can get a chance to see if you can speak to the HR rep? Put your best foot forward and explain your situation if you can, keeping your trust in Allaah and definitely pray salaatul Istikhaarah if you haven't. And after reading perhaps different opinions, and speaking to a scholar or knowledgable person if you can, take the stance of the one whom you trust or your heart feels the most content with. After all, you will only be accountable for yourself, and you know your situation the best.

I pray you get a job that will be good and beneficial for you, and remember that no matter where you are or what stance the people may take, you are a Muslim and you represent Islaam. I admire and truly look up to all my brothers (and sisters!) who strive in their Deen while traveling through this Dunya.

wasalaamu 'alaykum
 

haakym

love
I am really shocked at the comments in this thread. People need to re-think before posting a post. Stop giving your "own" opinions, cos you will stand in front of the Lord of Worlds one day, and you will have to answer Him (Subhaanahu wa T`aala)

Completely agree brother

Akhi Brian, ask a trustworthy person of knowledge and take what they say and leave it at that.
 

saif

Junior Member
wa 'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah




I honestly don't see where I have thought ill of her or her words? I spoke not out of spite or malice, and did not have even in my mind to think wrong of her so please give me the same considerations that you place on others. My only intention was to ask where this statement or understanding came from. For if we advise others on here, our words and opinions should be according to Islaam, so surely this has a foundation somewhere in Islaam?

And if you too had extended that thought to the rest of my post you would see I did acknowledge the existance of situations of leniency:

.....

:salam2:
I accept your objections on my post. I can see, that I was not having husni dhann about you and that's my fault. Since I am the one who pleads for showing respect and love for muslims, and also to those who are not FOLLOWING your scholars, instead of calling them names, I should be the first to extend you all the rights you have on me being a sister in Islam.

If you read the verses about halal and haram (Surah Almaeda) or about hijab (Surah AnNoor), you can clearly see, that Quran places ultimate check on the hearts of people. This is the most effective check. Without this check, the strictest definitions of "lowering one's gaze" or "inclination to transgression" does not make any sense. This is what I mean by drawing one's own line.

We may have our differences in the conditions, when it is allowed for somebody to remain in a non muslim country, but we were talking about a case, when somebody IS in a non muslim country for one reason or the other and has not yet managed to migrate to another country.

:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

I apologize. My intent as I have stated before is to be aware of the social customs of a country. It is that simple.
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
:salam2:

@ Aapa.. Not everyone who wears a beard has food particles on his beard. It might happen once in a blue moon. It is certainly a weak excuse for any boss or company to ask it's employee to trim their beard.
 

hana*

Junior Member
if i was a non-muslim reading this thread id think, boy, muslims like to argue.... the whole point has been missed...they requested to trim the beard not shave it off...so whats the big problem..why the bickering..?

i second Aapa and Ayman
 

Idris16

Junior Member
A reminder: the prophet sal Allahu alayhi wasallam had a large full beard subhanAllah!! And the Mothers' of the believers wore niqaab and yet we have munâfiqeen looking at the niqaab with nifâq. I don't get some people here. Let me remind you of this hadith again.

Abu Hurayrah "reported that the ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisra, sent two envoys to the Messenger :saw:. When they came into his presence, he :saw: noticed that they had shaved their beards and let their moustaches grow big. Hating their ugly appearance, he :saw: turned his face away and said, “Woe be to you, who told you to do so?” They replied: “Our lord (Kisra) did!” The Messenger :saw: responded: “But my Lord, exalted and glorified be He, has commanded me to spare my beard and trim my moustaches.” [Recorded by Ibn Jarir at-Tabari, Ibn Sa’d, and Ibn Bishran. Verified to be hasan (good) by al-Albani (Fiqh us-Sirah by al-Ghazali p. 359)]
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Brothers for heavens sake I am just letting you know what the politics of the organizational culture is. In the world of big coroporations they want the clean cut all American boy.

A beard is not the clean cut look.

I am not disgussing Islam.

If you want a job and want success you do not fight what the boss wants.
Hence, neat and trim.

If you do not want to work for a big corporation go into private business.

This is about working in the US.

I gave reasons why there may be objections.

Everyone, as usual went on the defensive..each person took what they wanted to debate..

Hello...man wants job. Company says keep beard but trim it..solution...trim beard..be the clean cut guy..gain trust..and slowly grow it..no brainer.
 

Idris16

Junior Member
Well Aapa do you see the American brother in my video? Well he lost his job because he didnt cut his beard, may Allah reward him abundantly. Do you see his beautiful orange beard? We need a new Malcolm X who will tell us not to compromise our deen subhânAllâh.
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
:salam2:

It is *incredible* how many mufti-wanna-be's we have on this site!!!..

Fear Allah!!!...

"And say not concerning that which your tongues put forth falsely: "This is lawful and this is forbidden," so as to invent lies against Allah. Verily, those who invent lies against Allah will never prosper." [An-Nahl:116]

Just because you can put together a few fancy words and can google a hadith or two that does NOT give you the right NOR the knowledge to sit down and pass *verdicts!!!*...or WORST..agree with people who do that!!!..so for YOUR own good...*STOP* doing that!!!..and never go back to it...*ever!!!*...

Ao'otho billah from Iblees and from the ways in which he makes Muslims slip!!!

As for you brother Brian...then I suggest the following (if you haven't done it already)...

First..understand in *thorough detail* what your job wants regarding the "trimming" of your beard..go as detailed as possible..how short they want it in *inches*..how it needs to *look*..et cetra..literally go OCD about the details...and note them down...

Then..take these details to *your local Imam*..and talk to him...give him all the details..and see what he has to tell you...it is likely he will have the adequate knowledge (WE DON'T POSSESS HERE ON TTI!!!)..to answer you and put your mind at ease..

After talking to him...ask him to write down and sign a masjid document detailing the importance of a beard in Islam..and its obligation upon men (like that of hijab for women)...and to put in the authentic evidence regarding it...and take that document with you to work and review it iwth them..now you might wonder why would I do that???..it is simply to let the company know that you don't have a beard because you're "religious" or because it is your fashion statement..it is to let them know that this is part of *your BELIEF*...that way they'd realize that they're venturing onto sensitive grounds!...and that way if they step down from their rules..and allow you to keep your Islamic beard..then you wouldn't only accomplish something for YOURSELF..but also for ANY brother that will come after you and has a beard..and you will then (with Allah's Permission) earn the rewards of doing so for *each* person that comes with this issue and it is already resolved for them through *your* effort!!!...

Trust me akhi...Shaitan does not leave people like you trying to practice..he will climb into every gap he can find to have you earn a short-coming or two...today you might oblige to the beard request..sometime down the road..you might oblige to postponing your salat..then sometime down the road..you might oblige to not performing it at work...and so on and so forth..until you see that your deen is no longer the deen you know and love and want to practice!!!

Just realize that if something *needs* you to abandon what Allah wants from you and loves of you...then that something is *tainted* with shaitan's evils!...so you have 2 options...

1. to change it to something good (if possible)..by fighting for what is *right* and what Allah commands..so *you* AND *other* Muslims can benefit from it

or...

2. to leave it..and avoid it at all costs..so you'd protect yourself AND others from it and from its evils

So brother..if you can spare effort to change things around to your benefit so Allah is pleased with you..do so..go to human resources at the company and talk to them..go to the imam..ask ask ask..and educate yourself...and trust me..once you know everything there is to know and you begin to hear solutions regarding your situation..the decision you need to make will be clear and obvious for you Inshallah...

and may Allah guide your heart to all that pleases Him and grant you strength and patience through His Power and His Grace...Ameen..Ameen..Ameen

:wasalam:
 
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