Dealing with Argument

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
:salam2:

I coudn't find the answer to this so i thought i ask here. I was at a friend's house n we started a discussion on marriage. He said its not right to look at the girl before marriage because it creates fitnah in your mind, and if there is something wrong with her people will spread it. And i said No there is authentic hadith which tells us its recommended to look at her before marriage.

he said that that was in that time and muslims dont follow islam perfectly so we cant imply that but he fully agrees that there could be a hadith he doesn't have knowledge. We debated a lil but then i dont want to keep arguement so i said, what you are saying you might know better but i dont agree with you so im going to stick to myself.

So even though he was wrong i didn't argue alot.

SO MY QUESTION:
How far should we go in arguement and if the person is not agreement is it Ok to say something like i did to end the arguement?

JazakAllah khair :)
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
:salam2:

Once I had asked Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem a similar question, I said if I provide someone with Authentic Hadith and reliable sources on a particular issue to a person and yet he doesn't believe or argues so what should I do. So he said '' You can take a horse near the water but you can't force it to drink'' So we did our job of providing them with the sources and if they don't believe don't force them.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
:salam2:

Once I had asked Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem a similar question, I said if I provide someone with Authentic Hadith and reliable sources on a particular issue to a person and yet he doesn't believe or argues so what should I do. So he said '' You can take a horse near the water but you can't force it to drink'' So we did our job of providing them with the sources and if they don't believe don't force them.

:salam2:

MashAllah :) beautifully said.
 

faaraa

Nothing but Muslimah
:wasalam:

As I understand....
The Religion is perfected when Rasoolullah (PBUH) was alive. we can never add some thing into Islam or take some thing away from it..

Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah, that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. (5:3)
So basically the argument which you friend provides you with, is illogical :)

Moreover, these are small small issues and we should not create a scene out of it..:hijabi:

So, as Borhter.Abu Talib said, your duty is to provide him with some thing authentic... rest is his wish... as this is a simple matter...

But if the argument was some thing about the Aqeeda then you should be more strong with your argument too..:)

ALLAH AZZAWAJAL KNOWS THE BEST.

Calm down and be brave..

FEE AMANILLAH:hearts:
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o aliakum

JazakAllah khair everyone for their responses, yes i wanted to make sure i did the right thing ALhumdulilah.
 

Abu Ameerah

Junior Member
That is the right thing to do, stop arguing, lest Shaitan will come in between you to escalate the tension until both of you exceeds the limit of a good argument into a quarrel.
 

ansari

STRANGER...
He wants to propose to a woman in another city; can he ask for her picture?
How can I look at a woman before proposing if we live in two different cities and I cannot travel?.

Praise be to Allaah.


If a man has decided to propose to a woman, it is permissible for him to look at that which may encourage him to marry her, because of the report narrated by Abu Dawood (2082) from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When one of you proposes to a woman, if he can look at that which may encourage him to go ahead and marry her, let him do so.” He said: I proposed to a girl and I used to hide myself from her until I saw that which encouraged me to marry her, and I went ahead and married her. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

For more information on the guidelines on looking, see the answer to question no. 2572.

If you cannot travel to see the one to whom you want to propose, then you can look at a picture of her, but you should realize that a picture is not a true reflection of reality. A woman may appear more beautiful in a picture than she really is, and vice versa.

You also have to get rid of this picture and not keep it, and you have to be careful so that no one else sees it but you.

Do not ask for a picture until you have feel that you want to marry her, after asking about her religious commitment and situation, and you think that you will most likely be accepted. When there is nothing left to be done but seeing her, then ask for the picture at that point, because of the report narrated by Ahmad (18005) and Ibn Majaah (1864) from Muhammad ibn Maslamah, who said: I proposed marriage to a woman, then I hid and waited to see her until I saw her among some date palm trees that belonged to her. It was said to him: Do you do such a thing when you are a companion of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? He said, “When Allaah causes a man to propose to a woman, there is nothing wrong with him looking at her.” It was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Majaah.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: If he wants to propose to her it is mustahabb for him to look at her lest he come to regret it. Another view is that this looking is not mustahabb, rather it is permissible, but the former view is the one that is correct, because of the ahaadeeth. It is permissible to look repeatedly in order to have a good idea about her physical appearance, whether the looking is with her permission or not. If it is not easy to look, he may send a woman to look at her and describe her to him. End quote from Rawdat al-Taalibeen (7/19).

Looking at one’s fiancée or at her picture is subject to the condition that there be no provocation of desire, so he should look at her without pleasure.

It says in Mataalib Ooli al-Nuha (5/12): If the one who proposes to a woman is certain that there will be no provocation of desire when looking at her, without being alone with her, he may look at her. If he is alone with her or there is the fear that desire may be provoked, then it is not permissible. End quote.

And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
 

ansari

STRANGER...
Praise be to Allaah.

Islam commands us to lower our gaze and forbids looking at non-mahram women. This is in order to purify people’s souls and protect their honour. There are, however, certain exceptions in which it is permissible to look at a non-mahram woman for reasons of necessity, one of which is in the case of proposing marriage, because it is the basis on which a very important decision affecting a person’s life will be taken. There are texts which indicate that it is permissible to look at one’s fiancée, as follows:

From Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘If one of you proposes marriage to a woman, if he can look at her to see that which will encourage him to go ahead and marry her, then let him do so.’ I proposed marriage to a young woman, and I used to hide where I could see her, until I saw that which encouraged me to go ahead and marry her, so I did so.’” According to another report he said, ‘a young woman of Bani Salamah. I used to hide from her, until I saw that which encouraged me to go ahead and marry her, so I did so.” (Saheeh Abi Dawood, no. 1832, 1834)

From Abu Hurayrah: “I was with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when a man came and told him that he had married a woman of the Ansaar. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, ‘Have you seen her?’ He said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Go and look at her, for there is something in the eyes of the Ansaar.” (Reported by Muslim, no. 1424; and by al-Daaraqutni, 3/253 (34))

From al-Mugheerah ibn Shu’bah: “I proposed marriage to a woman, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Have you seen her?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Look at her, because it is more fitting that love and compatibility be established between you.’” According to another report: “So he did that, and he married her and mentioned that they got along.” (Reported by al-Daaraqutni, 3/252 (31, 32); Ibn Maajah, 1/574)

From Sahl ibn Sa’d (may Allaah be pleased with him): “A woman came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, I have come to give myself to you (in marriage).” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) looked at her closely, then he lowered his head. When the woman saw that he had not made a decision about her, she sat down. One of his Companions stood up and said, O Messenger of Allaah, if you do not want her, then marry her to me…’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 7/19; Muslim, 4/143; al-Nisaa’i, 6/113 bi Sharh al-Suyooti; al-Bayhaqi, 7/84)

The sayings of the scholars on the extent to which one may look at one’s fiancée

Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “If he wants to marry a woman, he is not allowed to see her without a headcover. He may look at her face and hands when she is covered, with or without her permission. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent…’ [al-Noor 24:31]. He said: ‘The face and hands.’” (al-Haawi al-Kabeer, 9/34).

Imaam al-Nawawi said in Rawdat al-Taalibeen wa ‘Umdat al-Mufteen (7, 19-20): “When (a man) wants to marry (a woman), it is preferable (mustahabb) for him to look at her so that he will have no regrets. According to another view, it is not preferable but it is allowed. The first view is correct because of the ahaadeeth, and it is permitted to look repeatedly, with or without her permission. If it is not easy to look at her, he may send a woman to check her out and describe her to him. A woman may also look at a man if she wants to marry him, for she will like in him what he likes in her. What is permissible for him to look at is the face and hands, front and back. He should not look at anything else.”

Abu Haneefah permitted looking at the feet as well as the face and hands. (Bidaayah al-Mujtahid wa Nihayyat al-Muqtasid, 3/10)

“It is permissible to look at the face, hands and feet, and no more than that.” Ibn Rushd also quoted it as above.

Among the reports from the madhhab of Imaam Maalik:

He may look at the face and hands only.

He may look at the face, hands and forearms only.

A number of reports were narrated from Imaam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him), one of which says that he may look at the face and forearms.

The second says that he may look at what usually appears such as the neck, calves and so on.

This was quoted by Ibn Qudaamah in al-Mughni (7/454), Imaam Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah in Tahdheeb al-Sunan (3/25-26), and al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari (11/78)… The reliable opinion in the books of the Hanbalis is the second opinion.

From the above, it is clear that the majority of scholars say that a man is allowed to look at his fiancée’s face and hands, because the face indicates beauty or ugliness, and the hands indicate the slimness or plumpness (literally, ‘fertility’) of the body.

Abu’l-Faraj al-Maqdisi said: “There is no dispute among the scholars that he is permitted to look at the face.. the focus of beauty and the place at which one looks.”

Ruling on touching one’s fiancée or being alone with her

Al-Zayla’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “It is not permissible for him to touch her face or hands – even if is sure that this will not provoke desire – because she is still haraam for him, and there is no need for him to do so.” In Durar al-Bihaar it says: “It is not permitted for the qaadi, the witnesses or the fiancé to touch her, even if they are sure that this will not provoke desire, because there is no need for that…” (Radd al-Muhtaar ‘ala’l-Durr al-Mukhtaar, 5/237)

Ibn Qudaamah said: “It is not permitted for him to be alone with her, because she is forbidden and Islam only allows him to look, thus khulwah (being alone with her) remains forbidden, and because there is no certainty that nothing forbidden will take place if he is alone with her, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘No man is alone with a woman, but the Shaytaan is the third one present.’ He should not look at her in a lustful or suspicious manner. Ahmad said, in a report narrated by Saalih, ‘He may look at the face, but not in a lustful manner.’ He may look repeatedly, and examine her beauty, because the aim cannot be achieved in any other way.”

The fiancée’s permission to look

A man is permitted to look at the woman to whom he wishes to propose marriage, even without her permission or knowledge. This is what is indicated by the saheeh ahaadeeth.

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baari (9/157): “The majority of scholars said: he is permitted to look at her if he wishes without her permission.”

The hadeeth scholar Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani said in al-Silsilat al-Saheehah (1/156), supporting this view: “Similar evidence is seen in the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the hadeeth, ‘Even if she does not know.’ This is supported by the actions of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them), in accordance with the Sunnah, such as Muhammad ibn Muslimah and Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah, both of whom hid so as to see of their fiancées that which would encourage them to go ahead and marry them…”

Note:
Shaykh al-Albaani also said (op.cit., p. 156):

“From Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him)” ‘The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) wanted to marry a woman, so he sent another woman to look at her and said, “Smell her mouth (front teeth) and look at the back of her ankles.”

(Reported by al-Haakim, 2/166, who said it is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim, and al-Dhahabi agreed with him. Also reported by al-Bayhaqi, 7/87. In Majma’ al-Zawaa’id (4/507) he said, ‘”Reported by Ahmad and al-Bazzaar, and the men of al-Bazzaar are thiqaat.”)

In Mughni al-Muhtaaj (2/128) it says: “What we understand from this report is that the one who is sent may describe to the one who sends her more than that which he himself may see, so this sending achieves more than just looking.”

And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
 
Top