What was the story behind the Jasadan?

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
:salam2:, I hope you're all in the best state of health and iman.

So I was reciting Surah Saad today and I came across an ayah that peaked my curiosity:

وَلَقَدْ فَتَنَّا سُلَيْمَانَ وَأَلْقَيْنَا عَلَىٰ كُرْسِيِّهِ جَسَدًا ثُمَّ أَنَابَ

And, indeed We did try Sulaimân (Solomon) and We placed on his throne Jasadan (a devil, so he lost his kingdom for a while) but he did return (to his throne and kingdom by the Grace of Allâh and he did return) to Allâh with obedience and in repentance. (38:34)

Does anyone know the incident behind this? It does make sense as all the Anbiya before Sulaiman alayhis salam were tested and so he was as well. However, I would like to know more details about this particular incident.

JazakAllah khair!
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
JazakAllah khair. However this is similar to what I posted and doesn't really elaborate.

BarakAllahu feek for your efforts!
 

abdul-aziz

Junior Member
:salam2:

Then you need to go to a scholar, a Mufassir to understand more. InshAllah!

:salam2:
not to be of offense to you nor this is about you.

but reading statements on the forum lately you could of fooled me. So much scholars here I just want to puke.

tti used to have people who would explain these from texts written in Arabic by the scholars.

I find it ironic, that the other day my little kiddie needed a story of one of the prophets. Looking in the section, and like there really isn't much there. How sad. Now if key words like shia, takfeeri(I laugh at this one), wahabi, and so on and so forth of this manner. We have pages and pages of scholarly work on a site that is supposed to be appealing to people who want to learn about Islam.


The scholars differed on the interpretation of this ayah.

Hilali and Khan rely heavily on tafsir from many sources they choose to state that it was a Devil. The story behind it requires more explanation.

This is a very long discussion in Tafsir alkabeer wa mafatih alghayb but its in Arabic:http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?flag=1&bk_no=132&ID=4429

sorry don't have the time it would take me to translate that discussion.

wa Allah ya'lam
:wasalam:
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Jasad a body, not a jasadan or a dveil

The ayah clearly states it was a devil.

tti used to have people who would explain these from texts written in Arabic by the scholars.

I find it ironic, that the other day my little kiddie needed a story of one of the prophets. Looking in the section, and like there really isn't much there. How sad. Now if key words like shia, takfeeri(I laugh at this one), wahabi, and so on and so forth of this manner. We have pages and pages of scholarly work on a site that is supposed to be appealing to people who want to learn about Islam.

Thanks for stating this. It's actually a bit discouraging that on such a popular Islamic forum with hundreds are members, not one person knows the meaning of this ayah, which is from the QURAN. The very Book that we all aim to live our lives by and not one person has knowledge of this Quranic ayah. However, when it comes to discrediting others, knowledge is abundant. We should know more about our own Book before commenting on others.

The scholars differed on the interpretation of this ayah.

Hilali and Khan rely heavily on tafsir from many sources they choose to state that it was a Devil. The story behind it requires more explanation.

This is a very long discussion in Tafsir alkabeer wa mafatih alghayb but its in Arabic:http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?flag=1&bk_no=132&ID=4429

sorry don't have the time it would take me to translate that discussion.

BarakAllahu feek akhi! I managed to get the website translated in English but the information on the ayah isn't there. Is there any way to get to it?
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
:salam2:
not to be of offense to you nor this is about you.

but reading statements on the forum lately you could of fooled me. So much scholars here I just want to puke.

tti used to have people who would explain these from texts written in Arabic by the scholars.

I find it ironic, that the other day my little kiddie needed a story of one of the prophets. Looking in the section, and like there really isn't much there. How sad. Now if key words like shia, takfeeri(I laugh at this one), wahabi, and so on and so forth of this manner. We have pages and pages of scholarly work on a site that is supposed to be appealing to people who want to learn about Islam.


The scholars differed on the interpretation of this ayah.

Hilali and Khan rely heavily on tafsir from many sources they choose to state that it was a Devil. The story behind it requires more explanation.

This is a very long discussion in Tafsir alkabeer wa mafatih alghayb but its in Arabic:http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?flag=1&bk_no=132&ID=4429

sorry don't have the time it would take me to translate that discussion.

wa Allah ya'lam
:wasalam:

:salam2:

Brother if this is not about me or not to offend me, there was no need to quote me. Ma Assalama.
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah

Ukhti, all I say below is only of my limited findings and notes, so it is all I can say.

To begin with, it must be noted that the word "Jasad" does indeed literally mean body. As my teacher put it, coming from the root of Jeem-Seen-Daal it refers to a physical body, something not transparent – and it may also be used to refer to a very weak body, like it is lifeless.

So that refers to the literal meaning of it. In correlation, different opinions for the ayaat are that it was :

1) a weak human being
2) a shaytaan (among the jinn with a real body)

upon the kursi (throne / or in indication of position or power) of Sulayman 'alayhis salaam as a test to him. And yes my teacher also mentioned that it was said to have caused him to lose his kingdom/position for a while after which he turned back to Allaah and it came back to him.

Now obviously the question comes to -what or why this occured, what it means. And the teacher who gave us tafseer, said that there is nothing more that can be derived from this ayah. Not the when's or how's of it. Being unsatisfactory for my curiosity I looked in an abridged version of Tafseer ibn Katheer and it said similar in the footnote to this, as is related below:

[1] Allah does not explain exactly what this Jasad was which He placed on his throne. We believe that Allah tested him by placing this Jasad on his throne, even though we do not know what it was. Everything that has been said concerning it has been taken from the 'Isra'iliyat, and we do not know what is true. (Since the word means "corporeal" interpretations centered around some type of Jinn.) Allah knows best Source page

Therefore it might be in this instance that the best outcome is to curb our curiosity and take it that Allaah knows best!

Just a few points - The translation of Muhsin Khan and Muhammad Taqi ud-Din al-Hilali, although very good, as was said before does inject into it's translations explanations from certain tafseer - such as indicating if an ayah was meant in regards to the Jews or Christians or fire worshipers - and here in this case incorporating the opinion of the body being of the shaytan / jinn... So in some cases if something is confusing it's also good to double reference it, and I usually would second nominate Sahih International's translation for this position, and for this ayah they have:

"34. And We certainly tried Solomon and placed on his throne a body; then he returned." Source

Which certainly clarifies the meaning as being 'body' rather than directly 'devil'.

Secondly, my teacher also mentioned that it was assumed before that a certain hadeeth related to Sulayman 'alayhis salaam - about him going to each of his wives in a night to have a child from them to fight in Allaah's way - is often put together with explanation of this ayah, but that it has no correlative base, and muhadditheen do not ever put this narration with this ayah.

Best I can do for you I'm afraid. And I'd just like to advice that it's easy to say a book is empty, but harder to be the one to fill it. Since this is a mutual forum, it's not the failure of just one or two people which brings about a lack, but of the community in general. This also means it's not the job of one or two people to find and learn and make this place better and more focused for khayr - but all of us in general. So if blame is to be put anywhere, it will unfortunately also fall on our own shoulders.

Rather than thus, let's work together to try to gain knowledge in order to be able to share it. I speak on my own behalf when I say I don't have nearly enough knowledge as I should, and of course of all of us here there may be nobody who knows an answer to certain things...as it's only a true fact that none of us here are scholars, and offense should not be taken when that is pointed out. If the great Imams were not ashamed to say "I don't know" then we should not also be ... NOT to say it is not important to learn Qur'aan! Laa wallaahi, just that better than making up answers or giving faulty interpretations, it's better understand the limits of one's knowledge and say they don't know.

And while I can understand the general thought behind the words spoken -in efforts that a greater attention on TTI be for learning and gaining, but still let's work ourselves for a positive change and help each other out - without being overly critical of each other.

Brothers and Sisters may fight and be upset, but at the end of the day they should be pulling each other up, not asking why the other's still on the ground.

May Allaah increase all of us in 'Ilm and help us in understanding His kalaam and May He forgive me if I have said anything wrong!

wasalaamu 'alaykum
 

abdul-aziz

Junior Member
Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah

Ukhti, all I say below is only of my limited findings and notes, so it is all I can say.

To begin with, it must be noted that the word "Jasad" does indeed literally mean body. As my teacher put it, coming from the root of Jeem-Seen-Daal it refers to a physical body, something not transparent – and it may also be used to refer to a very weak body, like it is lifeless.

So that refers to the literal meaning of it. In correlation, different opinions for the ayaat are that it was :

1) a weak human being
2) a shaytaan (among the jinn with a real body)

upon the kursi (throne / or in indication of position or power) of Sulayman 'alayhis salaam as a test to him. And yes my teacher also mentioned that it was said to have caused him to lose his kingdom/position for a while after which he turned back to Allaah and it came back to him.

Now obviously the question comes to -what or why this occured, what it means. And the teacher who gave us tafseer, said that there is nothing more that can be derived from this ayah. Not the when's or how's of it. Being unsatisfactory for my curiosity I looked in an abridged version of Tafseer ibn Katheer and it said similar in the footnote to this, as is related below:

[1] Allah does not explain exactly what this Jasad was which He placed on his throne. We believe that Allah tested him by placing this Jasad on his throne, even though we do not know what it was. Everything that has been said concerning it has been taken from the 'Isra'iliyat, and we do not know what is true. (Since the word means "corporeal" interpretations centered around some type of Jinn.) Allah knows best Source page

Therefore it might be in this instance that the best outcome is to curb our curiosity and take it that Allaah knows best!

Just a few points - The translation of Muhsin Khan and Muhammad Taqi ud-Din al-Hilali, although very good, as was said before does inject into it's translations explanations from certain tafseer - such as indicating if an ayah was meant in regards to the Jews or Christians or fire worshipers - and here in this case incorporating the opinion of the body being of the shaytan / jinn... So in some cases if something is confusing it's also good to double reference it, and I usually would second nominate Sahih International's translation for this position, and for this ayah they have:

"34. And We certainly tried Solomon and placed on his throne a body; then he returned." Source

Which certainly clarifies the meaning as being 'body' rather than directly 'devil'.

Secondly, my teacher also mentioned that it was assumed before that a certain hadeeth related to Sulayman 'alayhis salaam - about him going to each of his wives in a night to have a child from them to fight in Allaah's way - is often put together with explanation of this ayah, but that it has no correlative base, and muhadditheen do not ever put this narration with this ayah.

Best I can do for you I'm afraid. And I'd just like to advice that it's easy to say a book is empty, but harder to be the one to fill it. Since this is a mutual forum, it's not the failure of just one or two people which brings about a lack, but of the community in general. This also means it's not the job of one or two people to find and learn and make this place better and more focused for khayr - but all of us in general. So if blame is to be put anywhere, it will unfortunately also fall on our own shoulders.

Rather than thus, let's work together to try to gain knowledge in order to be able to share it. I speak on my own behalf when I say I don't have nearly enough knowledge as I should, and of course of all of us here there may be nobody who knows an answer to certain things...as it's only a true fact that none of us here are scholars, and offense should not be taken when that is pointed out. If the great Imams were not ashamed to say "I don't know" then we should not also be ... NOT to say it is not important to learn Qur'aan! Laa wallaahi, just that better than making up answers or giving faulty interpretations, it's better understand the limits of one's knowledge and say they don't know.

And while I can understand the general thought behind the words spoken -in efforts that a greater attention on TTI be for learning and gaining, but still let's work ourselves for a positive change and help each other out - without being overly critical of each other.

Brothers and Sisters may fight and be upset, but at the end of the day they should be pulling each other up, not asking why the other's still on the ground.

May Allaah increase all of us in 'Ilm and help us in understanding His kalaam and May He forgive me if I have said anything wrong!

wasalaamu 'alaykum

:salam2:

mashAllah may Allah preserve you and increase you in knowledge and may He do the same for all of us.

I will visit this subject when I get time for now my father was injured badly and will need operation, and I am really nervous about it. I come hear to remind of calm and peace in knowing more about Allah swt. and the message he left for us to live by.

:wasalam:
 

MohammedMaksudul

May Allah Forgive us
:salam2:

mashAllah may Allah preserve you and increase you in knowledge and may He do the same for all of us.

I will visit this subject when I get time for now my father was injured badly and will need operation, and I am really nervous about it. I come hear to remind of calm and peace in knowing more about Allah swt. and the message he left for us to live by.

:wasalam:

:salam2:

May Allah make it easy for you and your Father and also make it as an purification for him. May Allah cure your Father soon.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
JazakAllah khair to everyone for their responses. I definitely am going to further research this ayah and I thank everyone for their contribution to this thread.

Ukhti, all I say below is only of my limited findings and notes, so it is all I can say.

Sister Samiha, for someone who states that her knowledge is limited, you definitely have an abundance of it mashAllah.

[1] Allah does not explain exactly what this Jasad was which He placed on his throne. We believe that Allah tested him by placing this Jasad on his throne, even though we do not know what it was. Everything that has been said concerning it has been taken from the 'Isra'iliyat, and we do not know what is true. (Since the word means "corporeal" interpretations centered around some type of Jinn.) Allah knows best Source page

Therefore it might be in this instance that the best outcome is to curb our curiosity and take it that Allaah knows best!

Just to recap on this ayah. There isn't really any information on it other than this Jasad was placed on the throne of Sulayman alayhis salam and its presence was a test for him as it led to him losing his kingdom for awhile. Any other details about the incident are derived from the Israeliyat and should not be taken as necessarily authentic. Correct?

Just a few points - The translation of Muhsin Khan and Muhammad Taqi ud-Din al-Hilali, although very good, as was said before does inject into it's translations explanations from certain tafseer - such as indicating if an ayah was meant in regards to the Jews or Christians or fire worshipers - and here in this case incorporating the opinion of the body being of the shaytan / jinn... So in some cases if something is confusing it's also good to double reference it, and I usually would second nominate Sahih International's translation for this position, and for this ayah they have:

"34. And We certainly tried Solomon and placed on his throne a body; then he returned." Source

Which certainly clarifies the meaning as being 'body' rather than directly 'devil'.

Good to know! JazakAllah khair.

Best I can do for you I'm afraid. And I'd just like to advice that it's easy to say a book is empty, but harder to be the one to fill it. Since this is a mutual forum, it's not the failure of just one or two people which brings about a lack, but of the community in general. This also means it's not the job of one or two people to find and learn and make this place better and more focused for khayr - but all of us in general. So if blame is to be put anywhere, it will unfortunately also fall on our own shoulders.

You seem to have misunderstood my post, ukhti. If I gave the impression that it was the job of moderators or select few individuals to be responsible for possessing this knowledge, than it was incorrect. It was precisely EVERYONE that I was addressing, as in the entire forum, for a lack of knowledge about the main source of Islamic belief i.e. the Quran.

Again barakAllahu feeki for your efforts and inshAllah, this will lead to everyone increasing their desire for knowledge to better understand their religion and its holy text.
 

LeRoom

Junior Member
JazakAllah khair to everyone for their responses. I definitely am going to further research this ayah and I thank everyone for their contribution to this thread.

Sister Samiha, for someone who states that her knowledge is limited, you definitely have an abundance of it mashAllah.

Just to recap on this ayah. There isn't really any information on it other than this Jasad was placed on the throne of Sulayman alayhis salam and its presence was a test for him as it led to him losing his kingdom for awhile. Any other details about the incident are derived from the Israeliyat and should not be taken as necessarily authentic. Correct?

Good to know! JazakAllah khair.

You seem to have misunderstood my post, ukhti. If I gave the impression that it was the job of moderators or select few individuals to be responsible for possessing this knowledge, than it was incorrect. It was precisely EVERYONE that I was addressing, as in the entire forum, for a lack of knowledge about the main source of Islamic belief i.e. the Quran.

Again barakAllahu feeki for your efforts and inshAllah, this will lead to everyone increasing their desire for knowledge to better understand their religion and its holy text.
Salaam 'alaikum sister ShahnazZ,
More than 11 years ago you've asked about the story/meaning behind the word 'jasadan' which many Islamic scholars agrees to be a corporeal body. However, there are few eschatological scholars in the Muslim world your question hasn't been answered for that long.

Bear in mind that somethings will never been known to human as Allah has declared that humans are given limited knowledge. However, your question is not blasphemous nor irrelevant to ponder about. And Allah has said to use His given knowledge and reasoning to guide us all to Him in every possible way and never to forget about Him and the coming Hour.

Sheikh Imran Hosein says a 'jasadan' is a body alive but one that lacks a soul. He specializes in Islamic eschatology, world politics, economics, and modern socio-economic/political issues.

The reason Prophet Solomon prayed to Allah not to give anyone else the opportunity to have a kingdom like his (i.e. rule over the world) is because he knew that the particular 'jasadan' who overtook his throne could in fact be the Anti-Christ ('Dajjal') as the Prophet Mohamed has said that there's no Prophet who came before him (i.e. Mohamed PBUH) who wasn't warned by Allah to be vigilant about the Anti-Christ.

It is well established that the Anti-Christ would emerge from amongst a tribe from the Israelites and who else would know more certainly as a human than Solomon himself as he also belongs to Israelites.

Dajjal The Jasad & Da'batul Ard (The Beast Of The Earth) | Sheikh Imran Hosein | 2022 UK Tour​

 
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