Dawah help

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2:

I am faced with a small dilemma about how i should correctly give a presentation about islam without compromising any aspect of the deen & also how to actually cooperate & advice brothers at the masjid, since we clearly have some major differences concerning certain issues like democracy, islamic penal code etc. I know that when we are giving dawah to non muslims that we should be kind and respectful but i do believe that there has to be a limit to how far we should be kind, because what i've witnessed is that some brothers tend to be very kind to the extent that they overlook some aspects of the deen. Some muslims also believe that islam is compatible with democracy which is clearly not true, they even have a name for it "Islamic Democracy". Do they think that by merely putting the word islamic infront of democracy will make it ok?? i clearly dont understand the logic behind this at all? So if that is the case, we should also have Islamic communism, Islamic fascism, islamic socialism etc..... Are we that afraid of the kuffar?? I really wonder why we have this mentality of defeat?. They also say that the 4 rightly guided caliphs were democractly elected and they state this as evidence so as to show the compatability of democracy to islam???? A question for those who say this: when did shura mean democracy?? The kuffar always ask this question of compatability, as if their man made system is higher than the one ordained by Allah swt. How could we as muslims think about it twice??? well as for me i reject it and hate it because it goes against my religion. So dear brothers/ sisters if you have any information that would help me refute this baseless statements pls feel free to do so. Pls include fatwas, books, basically anything that would pretty much help, but do remember to post authentic information.

:wasalam:
 

ahmed_indian

to Allah we belong
:wasalam:

mashallah brother. may Allah always keep you solid in your faith.

yes, you are right...*modern* democracy is not allowed in Islam. if from democracy we mean choosing one from many pious ones, voting whether to make dam or not, is okay.

but to decide whether to allow pre-marital sex, homosexuality, alcohol based on people's vote is clearly haraam.

maybe the below links can help you inshallah.

www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/107166

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543152
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2:
Asalam Aleikum

Thanks for the input brother Ahmed Indian but i forgot to say that i've already gone through those links, but anyway thank you brother.

The differences i was talking about was concerning me and some brothers at the masjid, so sorry if i wasn't clearly enough on that point.

Concerning the selection of the Khalifa, i believe that they were chosen to lead after the sahaba had consulted with each other, so this greatly differs with modern day election of leaders. Thats is why shura can not be defined as being democratic because it simply isnt.


The reason why i say islam isn't compatible with democracy is simply because Islam can not be compared to a man made system that makes people worship others instead of the one & only true god ALLAH SWT.

When i hear muslims saying that islam is compatible with democracy, i truly wonder if they understand the implications of what they are saying? To say the above would mean that

There is something wrong with islam, hence the need to improve it so that its in accordance with the modern world. The kuffar always tend to associate modernity with democracy & because of this misconception they believe that their man made system is actually higher than the islamic system. In other words what they are telling us is to follow them on their kufr and reject religion all together just like they have rejected faith and want as to be equal.

Allah swt tells us in the quran 5:3, that he has perfected our religion and completed his favour upon us. So when muslims say that islam is compatible with democracy, a system where a mere slave is elevated to the level of the legislator, they are indeed without doubt mistaken and in grave error. I dont get how a muslim defends this system when it is clearly shirk to begin with. To those who still aren't convinced yet, then simply go and ask any kaafir for that matter what they think about the shariah? Do you think they will support it or say anything good at all?? To them our system of governance is simply barbaric and incompatible with their vision of the modern world, as if our vision was the same as theirs. Funny isn't how some muslims are defending their system when the kaafir are rejecting ours. Don't you still get it yet?? they dont like us because of our muslim identity and they will do anything to mislead us, so why bother appeasing them when they clearly want us to follow their ways and not ours.

Those who disbelieve spend of their wealth in order to prevent others from following the path of Allaah, at all times and in all places, and (they strive to) spread corruption, provoke wars and kill the believers. But Allaah insists that they should fail and that His religion should be victorious. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (men) from the path of Allaah, and so will they continue to spend it; but in the end it will become an anguish for them. Then they will be overcome. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto Hell”

[al-Anfaal 8:36]

Allaah has told us how strong the enmity of the kuffaar is towards the Muslims:

“Neither those who disbelieve among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) nor Al-Mushrikoon (the idolaters, polytheists, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, pagans) like that there should be sent down unto you any good from your Lord. But Allaah chooses for His Mercy whom He wills. And Allaah is the Owner of Great Bounty”

[al-Baqarah 2:105 – interpretation of the meaning]

No matter what the kuffaar do, their enmity will not end. Even though they may speak words of friendship, their hearts are filled with hatred towards Islam and its people:

:wasalam:
 

arzafar

Junior Member
mashallah bro you are on the right track. Dont give up, people will try their best to misguide you. However, in my opinion you should speak the truth and tell them that parliamentary democracy is unislaamic. there is nothing to be achieved in sugar coating your message as it will only misguide people.

and as far as democracy goes, following is what God has to say about the majority of people on earth.

(translation of the meaning)
"And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie."
- Surah Al-An'am [6:114]

democracy means majority rule. Usually a legislative body called parliament is elected through adult franchise. if the majority in the parliament agree that gambling, drinking and worshiping idols should be allowed - that becomes the law!

Moreover, all this democracy gives freedom of speech is a lie because essentially, democracy = theocracy/aristocracy of the majority.
for eg, in France, Belgium they ruled that women cannot cover their head or in Switzerland the majority decided that minarets cannot be constructed. Both these decisions are perfectly democratic! I wonder what the pro-democracy camp on this forum has to say about it.
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
mashallah bro you are on the right track. Dont give up, people will try their best to misguide you. However, in my opinion you should speak the truth and tell them that parliamentary democracy is unislaamic. there is nothing to be achieved in sugar coating your message as it will only misguide people.

and as far as democracy goes, following is what God has to say about the majority of people on earth.

(translation of the meaning)
"And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie."
- Surah Al-An'am [6:114]

democracy means majority rule. Usually a legislative body called parliament is elected through adult franchise. if the majority in the parliament agree that gambling, drinking and worshiping idols should be allowed - that becomes the law!

Moreover, all this democracy gives freedom of speech is a lie because essentially, democracy = theocracy/aristocracy of the majority.
for eg, in France, Belgium they ruled that women cannot cover their head or in Switzerland the majority decided that minarets cannot be constructed. Both these decisions are perfectly democratic! I wonder what the pro-democracy camp on this forum has to say about it.

That makes us two brother, because i too wonder what they have to say about it. How should i handle this matter when a situation arises while giving dawah to non-muslims, because it actually happened when me and a fellow brother were presenting islam to non-muslims & a question came up how the caliphs were chosen but unfortunately the brother said they were democracticaly elected. The moment i heard that i was really "SHOCKED" to death but i didn't say anything at that moment due to the fact i didn't want to cause division. Which i now realise was totaly wrong of me but should i step in at a moment like that?? what do you think??. In addition to this i also need material regarding how to do dawah to shia & other muslims, so if you know of any good books to read pls let me know. I am really eager to learn more about the deen & for that i need to equip myself with knowledge which unfortunately i have little access to, because where i live there are no bookstores or anything of the sort.. The only way i learn is through the internet but that too has got it pros and cons. Inshallah may Allah swt make the understanding of the deen easier for us

:wasalam:
 

ahmed_indian

to Allah we belong
To say that democracy is un-Islamic without proof is un-Islamic! Judgments in Islam cannot be made without evidence. Neither of you have answered my question: Where in the Quran does God mandate on us to submit to dictatorship or forbid us from freely electing our leaders?
:salam2:

i think you are not getting the OP point. he wants to say that if democracy means going against the Law of Allah (as is happening)...its totally un-Islamic.

it cant be justified.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

So lets start with some fundamentals. Define democracy. And could someone explain why or why not the denotation is compatible with Islam.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Assalamu`alaykum

Democracy is self rule by the people. This is why Fornication and Riba are all halaal and more over Homosexuality being legalized. The policies and legislation are based on majority that's why you can see why Niqab and Minarets being banned.

If it was compatible with Islam all those would not happen. Yes democracy says every one has the right and they should be respected but they also make special laws that takes your rights which is specially in case of Muslims.
All western democracies are not direct democracies where people can participate in legislative decision its the elected politicians who do that's why even if the people of USA don't want war the elected politicians would make them go to war. Democracy is all about Majority imposing decisions on the minorities
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:A lot of us are confusing Democracy with Secularism which is a Christian idea,because from the moment on that God had materialized and appeared as a human being,ate drank and died on a cross there were no more limits for the deification of the human being who was to be from now on the all knowing when it comes to legislate for himself.They didn't literally kill god,but they killed it in the hearts and the rest is European history from the renaissance through the industrial revolution until today with ideologies of materialism and it's own apostles and political systems..etc.

I don't know why we are all referring to western models of democracy as a boogieman to disqualify the concept itself. The basic principles of democracy are perfectly compatible with Islam.

1.Rule of law
2.Equality of all citizens before the law(No favoritism)
3.separation of powers(The Judiciary,The executive,legislature are all independent from one another but operate within the limits of the constitution).
4.Universal suffrage.
5.Accountability of the governance.

In the case of A Muslim country where Muslims are in the majority,The constitution was made by Allah swt but it is the people that apply the rule here on earth , legislate and execute within the limits of that law , for the people and by the people...lol.Instead of just reading it on the book ,it is the human being that brings it to life on the practical level with Allah swt guidance and mercy of course when it comes to Ijtihad for example.The book doesn't act,it doesn't walk or talk hehe.Otherwise What's the point of having Hukkam ,Fiqh studies And Muslim Judges...etc.If we say that it is Allah swt the judge and the Malik in the wrong context to disqualify a concept such as democracy.

In the case of a non Muslim country where Muslims are in Minority ,the legislator that dictates to somebody how to dress is a going against his own principle of secular democracy and assuming dictatorial traits .

Because even Secularism(worldly,temporal) is not to dictate somebody how to dress or what to believe or not. It is a space to allow coexistence of different ideologies,philosophies and beliefs.Secularism is not the absence of religion from public space.

It is the indifference towards it,that said independently if we agree or not with the connotation itself as Muslims.To me it is a sort of dictatorship because the absence of ideology is an ideology itself,when taken to the extreme it becomes a sort of Zooism,whatever you wanna call it.

PS.Please do keep the discussion factual,so that we can all learn from one another in a lucid and constructive way,we are not yahood here,we are but brothers and sisters trying to understand each others view.

Jazakumullahu Khair
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
No. That's not why these things happen. They happen because the constitution in the West does not forbid them. Case in point is whether people can vote to elect a man for president of the US even if the man was not born in the US. Such vote would be overturned by the Supreme Court because it's unconstitutional!

Banning minarets and the niqaab can be challenged in court, if Muslims care to defend their religious freedom in Europe. And they can win too because the case is not hard to make, given the EU constitution's guarantee of freedom to practice religion.

That's just what I said who makes the constitution? Yes all those Muslims can't be like you. They have already appealed if you keep up with the appeals made you would know what all hassles it has just for the proceedings. They have already told it will take years to pass a rule over it without even opening the case.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
That makes us two brother, because i too wonder what they have to say about it. How should i handle this matter when a situation arises while giving dawah to non-muslims, because it actually happened when me and a fellow brother were presenting islam to non-muslims & a question came up how the caliphs were chosen but unfortunately the brother said they were democracticaly elected. The moment i heard that i was really "SHOCKED" to death but i didn't say anything at that moment due to the fact i didn't want to cause division. Which i now realise was totaly wrong of me but should i step in at a moment like that?? what do you think??. In addition to this i also need material regarding how to do dawah to shia & other muslims, so if you know of any good books to read pls let me know. I am really eager to learn more about the deen & for that i need to equip myself with knowledge which unfortunately i have little access to, because where i live there are no bookstores or anything of the sort.. The only way i learn is through the internet but that too has got it pros and cons. Inshallah may Allah swt make the understanding of the deen easier for us

:wasalam:

:salam2:

i think you should do dawa from quraan and hadith. Forget about this democracy and other things. These are non-issues that will come and go. Off course if they ask you about it you must tell them the truth.

you should tell the the kaafirs about Allah, oneness of God, salah, charity, hereafter and other fundamentals of islam. Ask them their purpose of life. you can find a lot of information on this forum and the best part is it is all authentic (well around 97% i suppose) because the mods close any thread in which people try to misguide others.

as far as shia go, it is very difficult because quraan and hadith have no information about them. But i suppose if you concentrate on the fundamentals of islamic faith, it might open their hearts to the truth.

Also, the caliphs were chosen, not elected as such. They were hand picked individuals. Everybody agreed with (until later on shia spread lies) and they were highly respected. they were handpicked by a trust worthy person not just any tom, dick and harry. The caliph was chosen from among these select candidates. there were no elections, no campaigns, no false promises, nothing of what is expected in democracy.

secularism is just a fancy word and nobody here is confusing it with democracy. as a matter of fact democracy cannot ever be secular because whenever a majority feels threatened by a minority, it can legally crush the minority. This is what happens in india, france, switzerland and belgium. off course things can be taken to court but the parliament can amend laws if they require numbers are met. The power lies with the majority even if they are wrong.

i could go on and on about why parliamentary democracy (or any other form of one man one vote for the general population) is un-islaamic. Suffice is to say most people believe what they want to believe rather than following the evidence. That is off course the biggest problem with democracy, compounded by the fact that consent can be manufactured through subtle propaganda.

Is your evidence the statement in the Quran that most people lead to misguidance? Then you don't believe in consensus (Ijmaa`)? I thought you did. That is what representative democracy is all about: electing people who know their stuff to make decisions on behalf of the people and in accordance with the law of the land. The law of a Muslim land is the Quran and the authentic Hadeeth and the rulings derived from them. Parliaments in a Muslim democracy cannot pass laws allowing Muslims to drink or gamble because that would be unconstitutional.

cmon ijma is of scholars (which are minority in any muslim population). In democracy, voting is done by ordinary people and all votes are considered equal. The verse refers to "most of those on earth" which means ordinary people! i dont think any parliament consists of scholars.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

In the US the votes of ordinary people are compiled to earn a candidate for public office enough votes from each state. It is not a direct democracy.

Given that..we can still mandate change by being involved in the soico-political process.

Secularism often gets confused with democracy. That is a mistake. Secularist perpetuate the need of separation of church and state. Very Zionist construct. We then have the banning of Christmas lights but light the symbol of the Jews in front of the White House at Christmas. Go figure.

As to understand democracy we have to go back to Hobbs, Locke, Voltaire and Rousseau. Throw in a little of the Druids and bingo we have the republic of the US.

The will of the people to self govern for self-improvement is the fundamental principal of democracy. Hence, it is not contradictory to Islam. Islam is the self governing for self-improvement of the will of the people.
 

ahmed_indian

to Allah we belong
The point I'm making is that this is not what democracy means! No democracy can go against the law of the land, or else it's anarchy.

It's misunderstanding of what democracy means and how it is implemented that causes some folks to think that Islam and democracy are not compatible. Proper understanding is advised before one starts a da`wa effort.

:salam2:,

so, its clear now that there should be Shariah Law to have democracy.

so lets work for Shariah Rule first and then we can talk about democracy. Because *modern* version of democracy is *not* compatible with Islam.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Brother Ayman,

I am glad someone read my response. Funny thing if all members read the responses we would not have redundancies constantly.

Thus to go back to the original question. Yes, sometimes when we teach others about Islam we can start with questions of general governance. We can explain how the Quran provides for us the complete and irrefutable system from family to nation. We can discuss how the European thinkers were influenced by the great minds of the Muslim jurists and incorporated Islam into systems which gave mankind a path to self-improvement and the best for the commonweal.

We have to broaden our knowledge base.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:
According to these views Islam is only really purified by being in opposition,when it is not true as Allah swt has wanted diversity and the free will of the human being,The Quraan is full of it but somehow we choose to ignore those verses and exist only in confrontation,this is exactly what populist parties are doing around Europe nowadays ….

Now It is easier to be an Arab an Asian or African in Europe ,Australia or in a country that respects both your spiritual and material needs rather than A secular dictatorship that doesn't respect your spiritual quest for meaning and steals your god given wealth and rights .

Democracy in a lot of Muslim countries would be a majority Muslim parliamentary constituency,that would ally themselves around Islamic guidelines to other groups of other minority convictions for the sake of social cohesion.

Would you prefer a centralized dictatorial power structure that is above the law of Allah swt that leave no independence for The Faqih Branch to legislate fearing Allah swt Alone rather than fearing the authorities to put him in jail..(even here the cases of scholars that call to the way of Ahl as Sunnah are numerous in their mayhem for speaking truth to power).


The principles are universal but the models are historical.


Would you propose rather a dictatorial form of state with all the mayhem and dispair it has left or a democratic state who respects it's citizens according to Islamic principles...

Which of the 5 basic principles of Democracy contradicts Islamic precepts.!I want you to stand for yourself and with Allah swt help alone stop trying to appeal to general consensus on TTI if you denounce it at the same time.It is by being strong yourself that you can be part of a strong group.

Nobody is trying to misguide people from tawhid but the ones who propose to submit to dictators rather than Allah swt.A lot of us think that the only way to be Muslim is to walk at the tips of your feet.I even had a brother telling me that I shouldn't appreciate a sunset as it one of khatwatu a shaityan and it might get me attached to the life of this world!islam is about balance and confidence it s about choosing the easy way given the fact that it is not forbidden .

Democracy has different models nobody is talking duplicating a western model of democracy.I fail to understand why you are using it by insisting on it s historical connotation to cloud the view on the principle itself,I would use the same argument by saying that during the presidency of president ben Ali in Tunisia sisters were beaten and even raped for choosing to wear hijab(you couldn't even go to court there because of the centralization of power so everything is "halal" as long as the dictatorship says so,the constitution is nada) and Muslim countries were used as airports to attack other Muslim countries!

If you tell me this kind of governance is the will of the Allah swt and the will of the people who are crying out in the four corners of the Muslim world from Afghanistan, Iraq Palestine and Iraq,then your are not calling to a middle way but to a hell on earth.

In one hand you say that leaders during the sahaba time were chosen and not elected forgetting that by making this nuance you deny completely that the fact itself of being accepted as wise and rightly guided in a Muslim community one has to have the right approach ,the ideology and the Akhlak,the qualification and credentials that appeal to the consensus of every Abdallah,Abdulkarim and Omar,you are not born in it and you do not give it further to your son.This are their panflet , their shields and their campaign.

This is why the Muslims were ready to die to the Command of the Khalifa not because he was forcing them and oppressing them but because he was providing daleel from the Quraan and Sunnah for his orders,he was giving the example and thus gain the respect of the Muslims ,he was not above the law!.

On the other hand you will have to admit the fact that the sahaba may Allah Jalla wa Alla be pleased with them were not chosen as you say by the kuffar!which is the case and an inevitable consequence of power struggles seeking for strategical and personal interest in the context of a globalized world with integrating economies and deficient territorial sovereignty with most of our dictators.Here is an interesting historical account on the relationship between the ruled and the ruler in Islam.

The relationship between the ruler and the ruled in the Islamic civilization was based on mutual respect. It was not similar that of the Roman and Persian kings with their subjects, which was based on oppression and tyranny and the division of the people into classes.

The sources from which the Muslims, both the rulers and the ruled, were keen to follow were always based on the Qur'an and Sunnah. Therefore, Muslim leaders only ruled their subjects through this source, except in cases of deviation from the rules, but they were few. Thus the nation played a major role in the evaluation of the rulers and officials at all levels.



The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) considered the best of jihad is to the behavior of an unjust ruler through guiding him to the right. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The best jihad is saying the truth in the face of a dictator."[1] Hence it is the right of the whole nation to bring wrongdoing caliphs to account. Accountability of the ruler is an Islamic principle emerged with the beginning of the Islamic caliphate. We saw some caliphs called for this principle. Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him) had referred to this in his first public address after Bay`ah (pledge of allegiance) when he said: "If I do wrong, correct me…"[2]
The Prophet's relationship with his Companions

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) used to listen to his Companions and accept their opinion if it was proved sounder. In Battle of Badr, the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his Companions were deployed in the nearest place to Badr's wells. But Companion Hubab ibn al-Mundhir (may Allah be pleased with him) was not satisfied with this. With great politeness he said to the leader of Muslims and their Imam (peace be upon him): "O Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him),

"Has Allah inspired you to choose this very spot or is it stratagem of war and the product of consultation?" The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: "It is stratagem of war and consultation." Al-Hubab said: "This place is no good; let us go and encamp on the nearest water well and make a basin or reservoir full of water, then destroy all the other wells so that they will be deprived of the water." The Prophet (peace be upon him) approved of his plan and agreed to carry it out.[3]



This eternal situation from one of the Muslim soldiers with the general commander of the Muslim forces confirms the greatness of the Islamic civilization. The relationship between the ruler and the ruled is based consultation, dialogue and respect. The Prophet's (peace be upon him) approval of al-Hubab's (may Allah be pleased with him) view confirms this inextricable relationship between the ruler and the masses in the Islamic civilization.
`Umar ibn al-Khattab's relationship with his subjects

A Bedouin kept asking the Commander of the Faithful `Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) about some plots of pastoral land, which the latter had fenced and ordered that nobody should approach it unless he permitted. The Bedouin said: "O Commander of the Faithful, (it is) our country for which we had fought in the pre-Islam era and embraced Islam for it, why do you prevent us from it? `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) paused, blew breath out of his mouth and twisted his mustache, and he used to do this when he hated something. When the Bedouin saw `Umar doing so, he repeated his words. 'Umar said: "Property is the property of Allah and servants are the servants of Allah. Were it not for what I'm born on it in the cause of Allah, you would not have protected an inch of them."[4]



Some of the viceroys appointed by `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) were of a high degree of fear of Allah (Exalted and Glorified be He). One of those viceroys was Sa`id ibn `Amer Jumahy (may Allah be pleased with him). In Tarikh Madinat Dimashq (History of Damascus) book, Ibn `Asakir reported on the authority of `Aly Ibn al-Hasan that when `Umar came to Homs he ordered that the poor of the town be listed. When he checked the list he found Sa`id ibn `Amer (may Allah be pleased with him). "Who is Sa`id ibn `Amer?" `Umar wondered. They said: "O Commander of the Faithful, he is our viceroy." He said: "And your viceroy is poor?" They said: "Yes." `Umar wondered: "How can your viceroy be poor? Where is his wage? Where is livelihood?" They said: "O Commander of the Faithful, he does not keep anything." `Umar wept and then ordered a purse with one-thousand dinars and sent it to him and said to the messenger: "Send my greetings to him." However the viceroy did not accept the money sent by `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) and, in turn, he sent the money to the majahidun in the cause of Allah.[5]
Abu Muslim al-Khawlany and Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with them)

The righteous Tabi`y (Follower, one of the generation after the Companions of the Prophet) Abu Muslim al-Khawlany (may Allah be pleased with him), who used not to fear anything or anyone but Allah, stood up and addressed the caliph of Muslims and the greatest leader in the world while he was on the pulpit and said to him: "O Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him), you are but one of the graves. If you bring something you will have something; otherwise you will have nothing. O Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him), do not consider that the caliphate is to collect funds and distribute them. But caliphate is to say right, act with justice and take people to the Path of Allah. O Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him), we do not care how turbid are the rivers if our sight is purified. Do not incline to a certain tribe, so your injustice will overpower your justice." Then he sat down. Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "May Allah bless you, Abu Muslim (may Allah be pleased with him)."[6]
Abbasid Caliph al-Mu`tadid

The principle of social solidarity between the ruled and the ruler has been evident in our Islamic civilization. Caliphs were keen not to make their subjects feel embarrassed who complain to them. Abbasid Caliph al-Mu`tadid (died. 289 AH) used to treat farmers very kindly. He used to provide them with much assistance and postpone the land tax until one month after harvest, in order to help them improve their financial and living conditions. Therefore their living conditions improved remarkably.[7]
Abbasid Caliph al-Qader Billah

Even at time of real vulnerability and weakness, which afflicted the Abbasid Caliphate, we found some caliphs trying to improve their subjects and meet their needs. Abbasid Caliph al-Qader Billah (died. 422 AH) was a religiously committed worshiper at night and philanthropist. He used to take two thirds of his breakfast and give to two big mosques. Sometimes he used to disguise himself and dress himself like the ordinary people in order to be able to know the conditions of the masses from a short distance. It was reported that he composed a book on the foundations of Hadith and the book was taught every Friday in the Hadith students' ring at al-Mahdy Mosque. People used to come to the mosque to listen to such lectures.[8]
Andalusian viceroy `Abdul-Rahman ibn al-Hakam

In times of adversity, the caliphs and viceroys used to stand by their subjects; feeling their pains and cooperate with them to meet their needs. During the era of the Andalusian viceroy `Abdul-Rahman ibn al-Hakam (died. 238 AH) Andalusia experienced a severe famine caused by yellow locusts which devastated the land. The caliph used to cooperate with the workers to feed the people.[9]
The relationship between caliph and viceroys

The relationship between the caliphs and their viceroys was characterized with mutual respect. The viceroys used to give the caliph his right and esteem at all times. When the caliphate experienced severe weakness, we found the collective conscience of the nation, both the rulers and the ruled, respect this political institution represented in the person of the caliph.
Saladin's relationship with the Abbasid caliph

The most prominent example of this relationship was that of the mujahid leader Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Saladin) (may Allah have mercy on him) with the Abbasid caliphate. In fact the leadership and control was in Saladin's hands. He was the real hero of the Islamic nation, the military commander who shattered the military strength of the Crusaders, succeeded to liberate Jerusalem, and restored the pride and dignity of the Islamic nation. He was the political leader of a reasonable area, which included the Levant (now Syria, Lebanon and Palestine), Egypt, Hijaz, and Yemen. However, some historical sources emphasized the close relationship between Saladin and the Abbasid caliph, who did not have anything to do, except his control on Baghdad and beyond. The exchanged letters between Saladin (may Allah have mercy on him) and the Abbasid caliph showed explicit recognition of the Abbasid caliph as the legitimate caliph of all Muslims. Saladin (may Allah have mercy on him) sent a message of congratulations to the Abbasid Caliph al-Naser Lidin-Allah.[10] Not only letters of congratulations that were exchanged between Saladin and the Abbasid caliph; Saladin always consulted the caliph. Some of Saladin's conquests served indeed the Abbasid caliph. This was confirmed by Ibn Kathir in his book of history. The objective of Saladin's siege of Mosul was to "bring its people back to the obedience of the caliph and support of Islam."[11] The relationship between the Caliph and Saladin (may Allah have mercy on him) reached the utmost levels of affection and kinship that the caliph granted him gifts in 570 AH.[12]
Yusuf ibn Tashfin's relationship with the Abbasid caliph

In the fifth century AH, Yusuf Ibn Tashfin,[13] leader of the Moravid Dynasty, which unified Morocco and then Morocco and Andalusia together, used to consider himself "servant of the Abbasid Imam,"[14] despite the distance between Morocco and Iraq and the fact that Morocco was independent from the Abbasid rule. However, Yusuf ibn Tashfin was keen to be under the Abbasid caliphate. He exchanged correspondences with Abbasid Caliph al-Mustadhir, who reacted in affirmative and gave him the rule of Morocco. Then the Friday sermon preachers in the Moravid country used to pray for the Abbasids, and Yusuf ibn Tashfin was named Amir al-Muslimin (Commander of the Muslims) not Amir al-Mu'minin (Commander of the Faithful), in a respectful gesture with the caliph.[15]
The relationship between independent viceroys and caliphate

Many viceroys became independent with their provinces from the caliphate. This began with Tahir ibn al-Hussain,[16] who took over as viceroy of Khorasan in 205 AH and managed to secure independence for his province for himself and his children after him until 259 AH, but he did not secede with the Abbasid caliphate and its requirements. The same also occurred with those who broke away with the Abbasid caliphate, such as the Tahir Dynasty in Khorasan, Ahmad ibn Tulun in Egypt who became independent with Egypt since 254 AH and then his son after him, Muhammad ibn Tughj al-Ikhshid[17] in Egypt since 323 AH, Hamdan Dynasty in Aleppo, and others in Arab Maghreb and Andalusia.

In fact, many of these independent viceroys were respecting the caliphate institution. Although they were the real rulers of their countries, they were often under the Abbasid caliphate.
The civilization development of independent provinces

This development in the position of the viceroy since the third century AH was accompanied with a parallel development in the civilization of its own province. Those independent viceroys tried to develop and improve their countries and sought to meet the needs of their subjects so much so that we found some of them surpassed the caliphate institution itself in the military and economic terms. So no wonder to see Abbasid Caliph al-Mustakfy Billah (died. 338 AH) writes to the independent viceroy of Egypt, Muhammad ibn Tughj al-Ikhshid, and proposes him to rule Baghdad together with his rule of Egypt, Levant, Yemen, Makkah and Madinah. Therefore it was natural under efficient ruler al-Ikhshid that Egypt's conditions improved. This prestigious position of Egypt under the Ikhshid rule, an Ikhshid standard dinar was coined. Coins prospered during his rule after corruption.[18]

The evidence of the civil progress the Islamic civilization reached in the independent provinces and the role of the rulers and the ruled, Muslims in cases of turmoil and revolution used to entrust the judge, scribe or whoever qualified to assume the post of the viceroy in such hard times until stability was restored and then deposed and the most qualified was appointed. This was evident in Andalusia. Marwan ibn `Abdullah ibn Marwan of Valencia, whose judge and chief was nicknamed Abu `Abdul-Malik, assumed the judiciary of his country in Dhu al-Hijjah in 538 or 539 AH. Then he assumed the rule when the Lamtuni Dynasty fell after the month of Ramadan of that year. He was given Bay`ah (pledge of allegiance) as a ruler in the moth of Safar, 540 AH, and continued for sometime until he was deposed and the broke away from Valencia…"[19]

The reader can find this widespread phenomenon in the history and civilization of Andalusia. People got accustomed to and approved of it. This is a kind of a temporary ruler at times of turmoil in order to run the country's affairs, similar to our present-time parliament speaker assuming the presidency when the head of the State dies or his term in office expires until a new president is elected. It is also similar to the post of vice-president in such crises. Another person assumed the rule of the country, called Akhil ibn Idris al-Qaisy, a scribe, from Randah. He was nicknamed Abu al-Qasim and was a knowledgeable, eloquent, intelligent, generous, tolerant person. He took over the rule of Randah when unrest erupted in the country and was deposed later. He had served as a scribe to Judge Abu Ja`far ibn Hamdin, and later he assumed the rule of Cordoba and Seville."[20]
The position of Muslim scholars regarding oppressive rulers

Since the Muslim scholars are the live heart of this nation, they have always resisted injustice that afflicted the people of this nation throughout its history. Imam al-Nawawy (may Allah have mercy on him) has had a famous story with the Sultan of Egypt and the Levant, Rukn al-Din Baybars, who restored a large plot of land in Damascus from the Tatars and annexed it to his property and deprived the beneficiaries of it. This prompted al-Nawawy to square up to Baybars and sent him successive letters until the latter complied. Of these letters sent by al-Nawawy one, which reads: "Types of harms that cannot be expressed have afflicted the Muslims who have properties in this land, and they (the owners) have been asked to verify what they own. This land is not lawful for anybody (other than its owners) according to all Muslim scholars. Whoever keeps a plot under his control, so it is his own property and nobody has the right to object, and the owner should not be asked to verify the ownership of his property? The sultan is known for observing the Shari`ah and asking his viceroys to apply it, as he is the first to enforce it."[21]

These positions and other dozens of incidents stand as evidence of the freedom the Muslim masses enjoyed, whether ordinary people, scholars, jurists, intellectuals and notables. All this emphasizes the greatness of the Islamic civilization.





[1] Sunan al-Tirmidhy: Kitab al-Fitan (Book of Strife), Chapter on The Best of Jihad is a Just Word at an Unfair Ruler (2174), he said it is a Hasan (good) Hadith. It was also related by Abu Dawud (4344), al-Nasa'y (4209), Ibn Majah (4011), and Ahmad (18850), and is classified by al-Albany as Sahih (authentic) Hadith. See: Sahih al-Jami` (2209).

[2] Al-Tabary: Tarikh al-Umam wa al-Muluk (History of Nations and Kings), 2/238.

[3] Ibn Hisham: al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah (Biography of the Prophet), 1/620; Ibn Kathir: al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah (Biography of the Prophet), 2/402; al-Suhayli: al-Rawd al-Anif, 3/62; and al-Tabary: Tarikh al-Umam wa al-Muluk (History of Nations and Kings), 2-29.

[4] Al-Nawawy: al-Majmu` (The Total), 15/234.

[5] See: Ibn `Asakir: Tarikh Madinat Dimashq (History of Damascus), 21/148, 149.

[6] Al-Tabary: Tarikh al-Umam wa al-Muluk (History of Nations and Kings), 5/297.

[7] See: Yusuf al-`Ush: Tarikh `Asr al-Khilafah al-`Abbasiyyah (History of the Abbasid Caliphate), p. 167.

[8] Ibn al-Jawzy: al-Mantazhim, 7/161.

[9] See: Ibn Hayyan al-Qurtuby: al-Muqtabas min Anba' al-Anadalus, p. 225.

[10] See: Muhammad ibn Taqi al-Din al-Ayyuby: Midmar al-Haqa'iq wa Sirr al-Khala'iq, p. 5.

[11] Ibn Kathir: al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah (The Beginning and the End), 12/387.

[12] Ibn al-Athir: al-Kamil fi al-Tarikh (The Perfect in History), 5/132.

[13] Yusuf Ibn Tashfin, Abu Ya`qub Yusuf ibn Tashfin ibn Ibrahim al-Sanhajy al-Mamtuny (410-500 AH/1019-1106 AD), Sultan of Morocco, founder of Marrakech, and commander of the famous Battle of al-Zulaqah. He was of the best people in terms of piety and policy. See al-Zirikly: al-`Alam, 8/222.

[14] See: a letter from Imam Abu Bakr ibn al-'Araby to Imam al-Ghazaly. Al-Salaby: Dawlat al-Murabitin (The Moravid Dynasty), p. 123.

[15] Abu al-`Abbas al-Nasiry: al-Istiqsa fi Akhbar al-Maghrib al-Aqsa, 2/58.

[16] Tahir ibn al-Hussain, Abu al-Tayyib Tahir ibn al-Hussain ibn Mus`ab al-Khuza`y (159-207 AH/775-822 AD) one of the greatest ministers and commanders in terms of literature, wisdom and courage. He paved the way of power for the Abbasid Caliph al-Ma'mun and the latter appointed him as police chief of Baghdad, then viceroy of Mosul and then the Arabian Peninsula, the Levant and Maghreb. He then moved in stayed in Khurasan. He was killed by poison, and it was said one of his servant boys killed him. See. Al-zirikly, op cit, 3/221.

[17] Muhammad ibn Tughj al-Ikhshid, Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn Tughj ibn Jahf ibn Khaqan al-Furghany al-Turky (268-334 AH/882-946 AD), the founder of the Ikhshid Dynasty. He died in Damascus. See: al-Dhahaby: Siyar `Alam al-Nubala' (Biographies of the Noble), 15/366.

[18] Adam Metz: Islamic Civilization in the Fourth Century, AH 1/53.

[19] Ibn al-Abbar: al-Takmilah li-Kitab al-Silah, 2/185.

[20] Ibid 1/174.

[21] Abdul-Razzaq al-Kilany: Min Mawaqif `Udhama' al-Muslimin (Positions of Great Muslims), p. 262.





As far as am concerned you can choose any other term if you are not at ease with the term democracy as long as you do not disagree with the basic principles of human rights,separation of powers ,accountabilty of the leader,equality before the law,disegnation by consensus and the rule of law.

1.If you don't accept the rule of law , look up to Mowgli and abide by the book of the jungle
2.If you don't accept the separation of powers,marry Machiavelli in San fransisco
3.If you don't accept the the accountability of the ruler, say Heil to Hitler
4.If you don't accept the equality of citizens in front of the law,The Talmud should give you relief
5.If you don't accept,consensus in choosing the leader you are completely out of touch with reality print Alice in the wonderland by the tons.

To Sum it up if you have no problem with these principles.You have no problem with acting on a strong and confident faith without being scared by your own shadow thinking that it is the shadow of your enemy,you can go ahead and tease the Zionist worldwide and Israel knowing that Allah swt always with those who strive in his way.

Democracy is a historical model .I won't grant it the claim of being perfect in an imperfect world .Although it is still the better of two "evils". If one is sicking perfection he must go and try to live in heaven before Allah swt wills it.But as Allah swt has decided to share this world between the believers and the kuffar,we have no other duty but to try and make it better. For any good listener out there that believes in Quadr.

To the original poster,dear brother,It is true that your main focus should be Dawah forget these issues for now, as they are not directly connected to the spiritual journey and existential questions your potential interlocutors might be going through at a certain point of their lives, in their quest for meaning as to the purpose of their existence.

There are different paths you could investigate in order to do Dawah They could be Historical,Philosophical,Statistical (I mean the status quo of the world and all the mayhem ,the hunger the unequal distribution of the resources...etc),Scientific and so on and so forth ,use your imagination and creativity in your effort as a warm up to light up the curiosity.Know that all these paths are dull without self criticism,I mean by that the best way to do Dawah is to walk to talk yourself,People will wanna be like you.At a certain point you gonna have to let the Quraan speak for itself.

Take heed to the advices of the brothers and sisters.May Allah swt make it easy for you and reward you for your good intention to strive in his way.

Sincerely yours ,
loving and learning
Jamil bear
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2:
Judging from the posts i've read so far, it's fair to say that we have a difference of opinion corncerning democracy. On one side we have those who are against it like me and on the other side we have those who say it's compatible with islam. So how do we solve the problem because simply stating our opinions isn't going to change anything whatsoever and we can go on forever, so instead of us wasting precious time in a way that leads to nowhere why don't we look at what the ulama have said about it?? i hope we are all in agreement here??

In islam it is necessary to refer all matters of disagreement between Muslims to Allah and His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam. This is important for the Muslim to know and implement because it indicates the complete submission to Allah without which one would not be a Muslim.

Allah says,
"If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end" [4:59] also, He says, "And whatever you disagree upon, its decision is with Allah" [42:10]

Ibnul Qayyim said, "Based on these verses, scholars have agreed that referring to Allah means referring to His Book, and referring to the Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, means referring to him in person when alive, to his Sunnah after his death." The first verse of surah an-Nisaa (surah 4), is also proof that the Shari'ah has been perfected and completed.

Ibnul Qayim commented on this verse, "It covers everything that the believers may disagree upon concerning their religion, from the smallest to the greatest, whether hidden or evident. And if there were not a clear solution to their disagreement in Allah's Book and His Messenger's Sunnah, or if they were not enough for that, then He would not have ordered us referral to them."

Shari'ah is the Judge and is not to be judged: This is its power and its role. This means that the Shari'ah rules and judges whether people's sayings and doings are correct or not. It judges between them when in conflict and disagreement. It confirms the right and abolishes the falsehood. This fact sometimes is violated through some wrong practices

The word Democracy comes from the Greek words ‘demos’, which means ‘people’ and ‘cratus’, which means ‘governance’. It is a system wherein the people legislate for themselves, by means of their appointed representatives, in a council or parliament, which is established for the purpose of implementing the laws and policies that reflect the desires of the majority of people of that region. Therefore it is a system, which is at odds with the very essence of Allāh’s exclusive right of legislation and as such it steps outside the mere disobedience of Allāh into the realm of Shirk, in that it seeks to elevate mankind to the level of the Legislator (i.e. Allāh).

As you know that shirk is the greatest sin that will not be forgiven by Allah swt. Shirk implies ascribing partners to Allah or ascribing divine attributes to others besides Allah and believing that the source of power, harm and blessings come from other besides Allah.

Almighty Allah says:

"Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be ascribed to Him in worship, but He forgives except that ( anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever ascribes partners to Allah in worship has indeed invented a tremendous sin" {Q 4:48}

There are three types of shirk namely
1) Ash-Shirk-Al Akbar ie major shirk
2) Ash-Shirk-Al Asghar ie minor shirk
3) Ash-Shirk-Al Khafi ie inconsipicous shirk

The major shirk has four aspects
a)Shirk-ad-dua
b)Shirk-an-Niyyah
c)Shirk-at-Ta'ah
d)Shirk-al-Mahabbah

Im only going to focus on the third aspect because it has significant relation to the issue being discussed here (democracy)
c)Shirk-at-Ta'ah: This aspect implies rendering obedience to any authority against the Order of Allah.

Almighty Allah says:

"They(jews and christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah) and they (they also took as their lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (mary) while they (jews and christians) were commanded (in the torah and gospel) to worship one Ilah (god i.e, Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and Glory is to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." {Q 9:31}.

Once while Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was reciting the above verse 'Adl bin Hatim said, "O Allah's Prophet! They do not worship them (rabbi and monks)." Allah's Messenger said, "They certainly do. They ( i.e rabbis and monks) made legal things illegal, and illegal things legal and they ( jews and christians) followed them; and by doing so they really worshiped them."
(Narrated by Ahmad, At Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir). (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol.10, Page No. 114)

If the jews and christians were taking their rabbis and monks as lords and worshipping them, what about those people in democratic countries, who do think they worship as their lords?

Allāh, the Most High, said:
“And Allāh judges, there is none to put back His Judgment and He is swift at
reckoning.” {Q 13:41}

And He, the Most High, said:
“Have they other associates who have prescribed another law for them that has not been issued by Allāh?” {Q 42:21}

And because the people are the ones who select the laws, by means of their
representatives, these laws are based upon what the people wish and they are in accordance with the desires of the majority, rather than what Allāh has revealed.

Allāh, the Most High, said:

“Have you seen him who has taken as his Ilāh (god) his own desire? Would
you then be a Wakīl (a protecting guide) over him? Or do you think that most
of them hear and understand? They are only like cattle – nay; they are even
farther astray from the path.” {Q 425:43-44}

Therefore the usurpation of this right by humanity sets them up as false deities (Tawāghīt) besides Allāh, by which they legislate laws and judge upon matters in opposition to His revelation. And for this reason, Allāh, the Most High, referred to any person or system that does not rule by what Allāh has revealed, as a "Taghut" (i.e. false deity):

Allāh, the Most High, said:

“Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which
has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and
they wish to go for judgment (in their disputes) to the Tāghūt (false judges,
etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them.” {Q 4:60}

Shaykh Al-Islām, Ibn Taymiyyah, may Allāh be merciful to him, said: “The person who is obeyed in disobedience of Allāh or the person who is obeyed in following other than the guidance of the religion of truth; in either case, if what he orders mankind is in opposition to Allāh’s orders, then he is a Tāghūt. For this reason, we call the people who rule by other than what Allāh revealed, a ‘Tāghūt’.” (“Al-Fatāwa”, Vol. 28/200)

And Ibn Al-Qayyim, may Allāh be merciful to him, said: “So a Tāghūt refers to all people who rule by other than what Allāh or His Messenger rule. This would also apply in the case that the people worship him besides Allāh or they follow him without sight from Allāh or they obey him when they aren’t sure if they are obeying Allāh. So these are the Tawāghīt of the world and if you look at them and see the condition of the people with them, you will see that most of them have switched from worshipping Allāh to worshipping the Tāghūt; from ruling by what Allāh and His Messenger ruled, to the ruling of the Tāghūt, and from obeying Him and His Messenger to obeying the Tāghūt and following him.” (I’lām Al-Muwāqqi’īn”, Vol. 1/50)

Muhammad Al-Amīn Ash-Shanqītī may Allāh be merciful to him, said, “And with these Heavenly texts that we have mentioned, it becomes quite clear that the ones who follow the fabricated laws, which the Shaytān has legislated upon the tongues of his allies and which oppose that which Allāh, the Powerful, the Most High, has legislated upon the tongues of His Messengers, peace be upon them, that no one doubts their Kufr and their Shirk except he whom Allāh has removed his sight and has blinded them to the light of the revelation as they are.” (“Adhwā’ Al-Bayān”, Vol. 4/82-85)


1: Legislation in islam
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/112268

2: Democracy in Islam
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/107166
2.http://islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=85826

3: Applying rules not mentioned in Quran & Sunnah
1. http://islamqa.com/en/ref/22239

4. Shura in islam
1.http://islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=84768
2.http://islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=88541

5. Ruling by other than what Allah swt revealed
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/974/

6. Ruling on promuglation of man made laws
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/118135/

:wasalam:
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:
Judging from the posts i've read so far, it's fair to say that we have a difference of opinion corncerning democracy. On one side we have those who are against it like me and on the other side we have those who say it's compatible with islam. So how do we solve the problem because simply stating our opinions isn't going to change anything whatsoever and we can go on forever, so instead of us wasting precious time in a way that leads to nowhere why don't we look at what the ulama have said about it?? i hope we are all in agreement here??

In islam it is necessary to refer all matters of disagreement between Muslims to Allah and His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam. This is important for the Muslim to know and implement because it indicates the complete submission to Allah without which one would not be a Muslim.

Allah says,
"If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end" [4:59] also, He says, "And whatever you disagree upon, its decision is with Allah" [42:10]

Ibnul Qayyim said, "Based on these verses, scholars have agreed that referring to Allah means referring to His Book, and referring to the Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, means referring to him in person when alive, to his Sunnah after his death." The first verse of surah an-Nisaa (surah 4), is also proof that the Shari'ah has been perfected and completed.

Ibnul Qayim commented on this verse, "It covers everything that the believers may disagree upon concerning their religion, from the smallest to the greatest, whether hidden or evident. And if there were not a clear solution to their disagreement in Allah's Book and His Messenger's Sunnah, or if they were not enough for that, then He would not have ordered us referral to them."

Shari'ah is the Judge and is not to be judged: This is its power and its role. This means that the Shari'ah rules and judges whether people's sayings and doings are correct or not. It judges between them when in conflict and disagreement. It confirms the right and abolishes the falsehood. This fact sometimes is violated through some wrong practices

The word Democracy comes from the Greek words ‘demos’, which means ‘people’ and ‘cratus’, which means ‘governance’. It is a system wherein the people legislate for themselves, by means of their appointed representatives, in a council or parliament, which is established for the purpose of implementing the laws and policies that reflect the desires of the majority of people of that region. Therefore it is a system, which is at odds with the very essence of Allāh’s exclusive right of legislation and as such it steps outside the mere disobedience of Allāh into the realm of Shirk, in that it seeks to elevate mankind to the level of the Legislator (i.e. Allāh).

As you know that shirk is the greatest sin that will not be forgiven by Allah swt. Shirk implies ascribing partners to Allah or ascribing divine attributes to others besides Allah and believing that the source of power, harm and blessings come from other besides Allah.

Almighty Allah says:

"Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be ascribed to Him in worship, but He forgives except that ( anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever ascribes partners to Allah in worship has indeed invented a tremendous sin" {Q 4:48}

There are three types of shirk namely
1) Ash-Shirk-Al Akbar ie major shirk
2) Ash-Shirk-Al Asghar ie minor shirk
3) Ash-Shirk-Al Khafi ie inconsipicous shirk

The major shirk has four aspects
a)Shirk-ad-dua
b)Shirk-an-Niyyah
c)Shirk-at-Ta'ah
d)Shirk-al-Mahabbah

Im only going to focus on the third aspect because it has significant relation to the issue being discussed here (democracy)
c)Shirk-at-Ta'ah: This aspect implies rendering obedience to any authority against the Order of Allah.

Almighty Allah says:

"They(jews and christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah) and they (they also took as their lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (mary) while they (jews and christians) were commanded (in the torah and gospel) to worship one Ilah (god i.e, Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and Glory is to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." {Q 9:31}.

Once while Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was reciting the above verse 'Adl bin Hatim said, "O Allah's Prophet! They do not worship them (rabbi and monks)." Allah's Messenger said, "They certainly do. They ( i.e rabbis and monks) made legal things illegal, and illegal things legal and they ( jews and christians) followed them; and by doing so they really worshiped them."
(Narrated by Ahmad, At Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir). (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol.10, Page No. 114)

If the jews and christians were taking their rabbis and monks as lords and worshipping them, what about those people in democratic countries, who do think they worship as their lords?

Allāh, the Most High, said:
“And Allāh judges, there is none to put back His Judgment and He is swift at
reckoning.” {Q 13:41}

And He, the Most High, said:
“Have they other associates who have prescribed another law for them that has not been issued by Allāh?” {Q 42:21}

And because the people are the ones who select the laws, by means of their
representatives, these laws are based upon what the people wish and they are in accordance with the desires of the majority, rather than what Allāh has revealed.

Allāh, the Most High, said:

“Have you seen him who has taken as his Ilāh (god) his own desire? Would
you then be a Wakīl (a protecting guide) over him? Or do you think that most
of them hear and understand? They are only like cattle – nay; they are even
farther astray from the path.” {Q 425:43-44}

Therefore the usurpation of this right by humanity sets them up as false deities (Tawāghīt) besides Allāh, by which they legislate laws and judge upon matters in opposition to His revelation. And for this reason, Allāh, the Most High, referred to any person or system that does not rule by what Allāh has revealed, as a "Taghut" (i.e. false deity):

Allāh, the Most High, said:

“Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which
has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and
they wish to go for judgment (in their disputes) to the Tāghūt (false judges,
etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them.” {Q 4:60}

Shaykh Al-Islām, Ibn Taymiyyah, may Allāh be merciful to him, said: “The person who is obeyed in disobedience of Allāh or the person who is obeyed in following other than the guidance of the religion of truth; in either case, if what he orders mankind is in opposition to Allāh’s orders, then he is a Tāghūt. For this reason, we call the people who rule by other than what Allāh revealed, a ‘Tāghūt’.” (“Al-Fatāwa”, Vol. 28/200)

And Ibn Al-Qayyim, may Allāh be merciful to him, said: “So a Tāghūt refers to all people who rule by other than what Allāh or His Messenger rule. This would also apply in the case that the people worship him besides Allāh or they follow him without sight from Allāh or they obey him when they aren’t sure if they are obeying Allāh. So these are the Tawāghīt of the world and if you look at them and see the condition of the people with them, you will see that most of them have switched from worshipping Allāh to worshipping the Tāghūt; from ruling by what Allāh and His Messenger ruled, to the ruling of the Tāghūt, and from obeying Him and His Messenger to obeying the Tāghūt and following him.” (I’lām Al-Muwāqqi’īn”, Vol. 1/50)

Muhammad Al-Amīn Ash-Shanqītī may Allāh be merciful to him, said, “And with these Heavenly texts that we have mentioned, it becomes quite clear that the ones who follow the fabricated laws, which the Shaytān has legislated upon the tongues of his allies and which oppose that which Allāh, the Powerful, the Most High, has legislated upon the tongues of His Messengers, peace be upon them, that no one doubts their Kufr and their Shirk except he whom Allāh has removed his sight and has blinded them to the light of the revelation as they are.” (“Adhwā’ Al-Bayān”, Vol. 4/82-85)


1: Legislation in islam
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/112268

2: Democracy in Islam
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/107166
2.http://islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=85826

3: Applying rules not mentioned in Quran & Sunnah
1. http://islamqa.com/en/ref/22239

4. Shura in islam
1.http://islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=84768
2.http://islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=88541

5. Ruling by other than what Allah swt revealed
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/974/

6. Ruling on promuglation of man made laws
1.http://islamqa.com/en/ref/118135/

:wasalam:
:salam2:Akhi ,very swiftly could you point out which of the above cited 5 principles contradict Sharia and elaborate on it....Nobody is differing but those who refuse to see the realities on the ground .Furthermore could you please answer brother Aiman's question as to whether dictatorship or a monarchy is more likely to be compatible with Islam and why...jazakha llahu khairan.These are merely historical models,Islam is not relative and it is not to change it is here to stay as to it's principles.

jazakhallahu khairan for sharin the hadeeths above
 

arzafar

Junior Member
monarchy is definitely more suited to Islam, far more than democracy. I mean Islam flourished during the following periods.

Rashidun Caliphate (632–661)
Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) - Successor of the Rashidun Caliphate
Umayyad Emirate in the Al-Andalus (Islamic Iberia) (750–929)
Umayyad Caliphate of Córdoba in the Al-Andalus (Islamic Iberia) (929–1031)

Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) - Successor of the Umayyad Caliphate

None of these rulers were elected by one man one vote principle central to democracy. let's not misguide people by going into semantics. One man one vote aka election is not from the sunnah nor from the practice of the salaf. The governors were all appointed by the caliph rather than being elected by the people. Even the shoorah wasn't elected! The prophet and the caliphs consulted intelligent, learned men and women and not just anybody on the streets. Actually this equality is the biggest problem with democracy - everybody can vote! People forget humility and become arrogant because everyone's opinion (vote) is equal when it shouldn't be.
misguided are equal to knowledgeable ones
incapable are equal to capable ones
sinners are equal to the pious ones
and worst of all, kaafirs are equal to muslims!!

I really dont know how anyone can claim democracy is islamic. In democracy, people can amend the constitution - nobody can amend the Quran and hadith. I have already posted a clear cut evidence against following the majority of people yet brothers and sisters have ignored it completely or interpreted it incorrectly.

"And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie."
- Surah Al-An'am [6:116]

Those who support democracy in whatever form should provide supporting evidence from Quraan and hadith instead of going around in circles.
 

Muslimboy2222

Junior Member
:salam2:Akhi ,very swiftly could you point out which of the above cited 5 principles contradict Sharia and elaborate on it....Nobody is differing but those who refuse to see the realities on the ground .Furthermore could you please answer brother Aiman's question as to whether dictatorship or a monarchy is more likely to be compatible with Islam and why...jazakha llahu khairan.These are merely historical models,Islam is not relative and it is not to change it is here to stay as to it's principles.

jazakhallahu khairan for sharin the hadeeths above

:salam2:
Did you actually take the time to read what i posted pluss the links?? because your reply was very fast! but anyway i will answer you question.

"I don't know why we are all referring to western models of democracy as a boogieman to disqualify the concept itself. The basic principles of democracy are perfectly compatible with Islam.

1.Rule of law
2.Equality of all citizens before the law(No favoritism)
3.separation of powers(The Judiciary,The executive,legislature are all independent from one another but operate within the limits of the constitution).
4.Universal suffrage.
5.Accountability of the governance.

1. Rule of law
To be frank i really dont get what you refering to here, are you implying that the rule of law in islam is the same as in democracy?? because to me it seems that way and if that is the case then i'll have to say that this is not correct. We all know that in democracy the laws are man-made while in islam they are divine. If what you are implying is in the sense of establishing justice then that too is not correct because justice in islam is far more superior than in democracy with regard to almost anything whether it is economic, social, personal etc. In short justice in islam transcend considerations of race, religion, color, and creed, as Muslims are commanded to be just to their friends and foes alike, and to be just at all levels, as the Quran puts it:

“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even if it be against yourselves, your parents, and your relatives, or whether it is against the rich or the poor...” (Quran 4:135)


According to another Quranic passage:

“Let not the hatred of a people swerve you away from justice. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness…” (Quran 5:8)

Did you also know that in islam we are forbidden from insulting their gods whom they worship besides Allah

Allah says
And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fair-seeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.Q6:108

can you say the same for democracy??
i'll give you another example, you have heard of al-qisas (laws for equality in punishment for wounds etc. In retaliation

Allah says

And We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. And whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers - of a lesser degree). Q 5:45

Allaah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Al-Qisaas (the Law of Equality in punishment) is prescribed for you in case of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But if the killer is forgiven by the brother (or the relatives) of the killed against blood money, then adhering to it with fairness and payment of the blood money to the heir should be made in fairness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. So after this whoever transgresses the limits (i.e. kills the killer after taking the blood money), he shall have a painful torment” [al-Baqarah 2:178].

After reading that can you seriously say that the concept of justice in islam is equal to the one established in democracy??



2. Equality of all citizens before the law(No favoritism)
Again you need to elaborate more so that i can answer you fully. I'll give you an example, equality between men and women in islam vs in democracy. As we all know how that it differs greatly between the two systems. The word equality and how it's used in the west is totally different in how its used in islam. In democracy it is defined as being similar & no differences, while in islam it means justice. Just think about it if the meaning is different then what about its implementation corncerning certain issues like divorce, rulership etc?? In democracy basically anyone can become a president whether it's a muslim,jew, christian etc but in an islamic state where the sharia is implemented a non-muslim can never become the ruler, so would that be judged as being fair according to democracy.

3. Separation of powers
As a far as i know there is nothing like this in islam this is something that the kuffar came up with and sadly the muslims are imtating the kuffar in this matter. Islam is a complete way of life and its ruling encompasses every aspect of a muslims life and the manner in which we are supposed to govern our state has already been laid down for us 1400 yrs ago, so we are required to follow in the footsteps of the Prophet :saw: and the sahaba. Those who call for the separation of powers are only imtating the kuffar and by doing so they actually believe that it would stop the government from misuse of power. In other words what they are implying is that there is something wrong in the way we govern our state hence the need to improve it to suit the modern society. Its actually common sense that people do not turn away from one way to another way that is different unless they believe that the one they turned to is better and that the one they turned away from is lacking.

Allah says

“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion Q5:3

4. Universal Suffrage
Voting has got nothing to do with islam, because it is an innovation and its ruling comes under the ruling of imitating the kuffar, but there are exceptions concerning voting in non-muslim countries. Click the 1 link under democracy in islam. You can find the link in my previous post.

5. Accountability of the governance
Even here accountability differs greatly because in islam the rulers and those incharge of the muslim affairs will be accountable on the day of judgement even though every human being will be accountable for their deeds on that day but the difference in democracy is that since this system elevates the slave to the position of the legislator then the government is accountable to the people and not god just like in all modern democracies. So they are not compatible at all because one if accountable to the people while the other to god. Do you think that one who doesnt believe in god going to act the same way as a true mumin who fears Allah swt and submits to His laws completly? if this is true on personal level what about on a national level?

2 Question

Furthermore could you please answer brother Aiman's question as to whether dictatorship or a monarchy is more likely to be compatible with Islam and why...jazakha llahu khairan.These are merely historical models,Islam is not relative and it is not to change it is here to stay as to it's principles.

Why do you ask a question that you know the answer to? Dictatorship is something that is not allowed in islam and every one knows that what i am wondering is why do you ask this? is it because you dont know this which i find it very hard to believe, so why? The only possible explanation would be that democracy brings freedom and without it nothing functions, is this what you are implying??? i would like you to answer the following question ,where in the quran is it written that we can elect our leaders?

Coming to the issue of monarchy , i do not know of any verse in the quran or a hadeeth that says that monarchy/kingship is not permitted. If anyone knows something pls share it with us.

With that i hope i've answered your questions

:wasalam:
 
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