Escaping to the West

Waseem203

Young Muslim
Muslims initially migrated from Mecca because Islam was not tolerated there. In the Quran it says to fight only if you are first fought, and not to transgress. Muslims could not practise freely in Mecca, thus they were obligated to travel to a place that permited them to do so. This makes complete sense. But, why should we leave the West when we can practice our religion freely, fast freely, pray when we please (in public) and donate to whom we please?
 

complex_man

Junior Member
I can only laugh on such a ruling. only opinions. where is the proof from quran ????? another thing this guy is generalizing the situation. we should use our minds as Allah has given us mind to think and not follow whatever we read from some one which maybe his opinion.
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Assalamu alaykum

I have lived in several Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Jordan and others. When you are not there for a few week holiday, you will notice the stubborn unfair bureaucracy, people with very bad manners, and a lack of humanity and rights.

A lot of what I believed before, was spun on its head, unfortunately. Some things, from my own person experiences of how people there live and behave, I better not utter.

Wasalamu Alaykum

Waa'alaykummusalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother, its true that the bureaucracy and all those requirements that one has to go through just because we are not from their nationality is a HASSLE. But we all know how countries like Dubai, Kuwait and even Saudi always look upon Westerners higher even than their own Muslims brothers and sisters (just because they do not look white). In Dubai itself, we can see so many Westerners living there; more than you can see Emiratis or Arabs there. I am not being racist or nationalist here but that happens to be the TRUTH on how the situation is there. So actually, for a white man to live there (having that he got a job there and have a sponsor etc) is easier than; lets say, an Asian man.

You pointed out about people with bad manners, behaviors etc is GENERALIZATION because we have those types of people in EVERY communities. While I totally agree with what you said (that yes, I've seen such behaviors from such people), it still does not make me forget that there are many many more good, compassionate Arabs whom I felt their warmth and welcoming when I went to their places even if you barely know them. Usually, its the Arab bedouins who welcome another Muslim to their homes as if they've known you for long (even if you just meet a few mins ago and had only a very brief but good conversation).

For your last paragraph, yeah, many things that we thought that the people and places would be like "A" happened to be the other way around, "B"; only when we experience it *first-hand*, we'll realize about it. But still, they are our Muslims brothers and sisters whom we would favor and prefer upon rather than the disbelievers. I know that many people (NOT all) at the Middle East and South East Asia countries practice bida'ah and they may not be upon the true ways of the Salaaf, but isn't its OUR responsibilities to educate them; not just to educate the people in the West?

assalamu alaykum,

Yes, hijrah is an obligation that remains to the day of judgement.

But, at same time I think you fail to realise that not all people are in the same situation. You can not give such a broad sweeping extreme answer. Some people are born in the West and have no "rights" and are unwanted in Muslim countries. Far from what you may have been taught, they have no inclination to help people for Islam's sake.

Its also impractical. The Western countries have a much more open and easy way for migration, whereas most Muslim countries make it almost impossible for a person to live there.

From what I have seen, a lot of Muslims living in the West follow Islam in a much more sincere way than those in Muslim countries, particularly in the Middle East.

Its true that people living in the West struggle MORE to practice their faith. It is because they are the minority and minorities always NEED to struggle to overweigh the majority. But know that, I have always have a deep respect to the Muslims in the West. However, when it comes to matters like bringing up the children (and many more), there's more preferences to bring them up in a Muslim environment and community. This has been agreed upon many scholars. While I am not saying that there are not successful children who were brought up in a Western environment, still, the preferences are to bring them up in a good, Islamic community.

I can only laugh on such a ruling. only opinions. where is the proof from quran ????? another thing this guy is generalizing the situation. we should use our minds as Allah has given us mind to think and not follow whatever we read from some one which maybe his opinion.

Brother, while there are rulings that we may have a difficult time to act upon or even to agree with, but such statement as to *laugh* at it is HIGHLY inappropriate. And just so you know, the rulings from the given link above is from a respected scholar, Sheikh Al-Albaani. So perhaps, you could try to refrain from such words in the future, insha Allaah.


In the end, brothers and sisters, like many have said, Allaah is The Only Judge upon our actions. It is true that what matters the most is the faith within our heart and only Allaah knows whether we've done our effort to *at least* make hijrah to a Muslim country despite of the hassle and the difficulties. Its not easy but yet, not impossible. We all know in every hardships in life, Allaah will helps us even from angles that we never expected.

I'd like to share "Advice to the Muslims in the West" from islamqa:

What advice can you give to the Muslims in the west in the current situation in which the Muslim ummah finds itself? How can we fulfil our Islamic duties and please Allaah?.

Praise be to Allaah.
1- Our advice to our Muslim brothers who are living in the west – now – is the same as the advice that Allaah gave to the first and the last, which is to fear Allaah and to do that which is enjoined by Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and to avoid that which is forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger.

2- Do not stay there, except for those of you who are forced to stay or who need to do so, because they have no other place to go, or because they are sick and need treatment, or they are active in da’wah, calling people to Islam; or if you are natives of that land and can practise your religion openly. You know your situation better than we do and you have seen for yourselves how the west has shown its true colours with regard to so-called religious freedom and freedom of self-expression. That has become permissible for all religions except Islam, and for all people except the Muslims; the heads of some of these states have even dared to issue laws forbidding Muslim women to wear hijab in public schools.

3- If you have no alternative but to stay in those countries, then strive not to raise your children there; send them to a Muslim country, to their families or to Islamic centres that will take care of them and educate them. No matter how great the corruption in Muslim countries, it cannot compare to the kufr and permissiveness that exists in the west, except in a few rare cases.

4- You have to present a correct image of Islam by adhering to its rituals, morals and ways. Many countries were won over by Muslim merchants who dealt in a good and kind manner with people, so that the gave a good image of Islam and countries became Muslim at their hands whose inhabitants number in the tens of millions.

5- It is not permissible for you to look for ward to dilute the rulings of Islam and to make compromises in order to please the west and its people. Rather you should feel proud of your religion and adhere to the guidance of your Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), no matter who disagrees with you. You see how the followers of deviant ideas and perversions feel proud of their principles and ideas and proclaim them openly with no embarrassment. The followers of truth have more right to do that.

6- Be united in adhering to the truth and in defending the truth; do not become divided and lose your strength, thus enabling your enemy to defeat you. And do not show your differences openly in front of the kuffaar. Advise one another in private and not in plain view of others.

7- Do not hesitate to be involved in newspapers, magazines, broadcasting and all kinds of media – within Islamic guidelines – and let your participation be with a purpose, namely to show the true face of Islam. Defend the honour of your Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), for many kaafirs may be receptive and may respond to a kind word or be influenced by strong evidence.

8- You have to develop strong ties with the scholars and shaykhs whose knowledge is trustworthy, through all available means. Rid yourselves of ignorance about your faith so that you may dispel the ignorance of others in turn. Introduce Islam to the public, free of all impurities.

9- Visit the Holy Land of Allaah – Makkah al-Mukarramah – for Hajj and ‘Umrah, in order to strengthen your faith and form strong ties with the scholars and shaykhs. We often see Muslims from all corners of the earth, but rarely from the west. So strive to do this and cooperate in organizing trips, and you will see a great deal of good in sha Allah.

10-Finally, strive to obey and worship Allaah, and take good care of your sons and daughters; strive to form strong bonds between family members.

We ask Allaah to help you to do that which pleases Him and to help you to obey Him and worship Him well.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/22309

Wa'alaykummusalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister it is good to see you post.

One advantage we have in the West of raising children is simple. We become very protective of our children. We encourage attending the masjid. We encourage being around Muslims. We support Muslim businesses. We foster and nurture Islam.
It is not easy. But the masjid becomes the focal point of our existence. We rejoice jumma.

You raise some salient issues. Lets take them up after Ramadan.

At this time..we are Muslims..Muslims to the North, Muslims to the South, Muslims to the West and Muslims to the East..I know Hazarath Ibrahim must be smiling. ( just a metaphor )
 

saifkhan

abd-Allah
:salam2:

I was thinking about this over the weekend. Born Muslims will always feel a little put off by my American-ness, and non-Muslims will be put off by my acceptance of Islam. I am a man torn between two worlds, and at the moment, I feel a little hard-done by both.

as-salam 'alaikum brother

no no brother, as long as you are muslim there is no problem to accept you. insha Allah, at least for me.
like here is one native guy where I live, when he walks or stays with me, I've seen him like, he wants to be attached with me, and I welcome him, when he is with me, you'll never find that we are from different parts of world, with different choice , diff culture, different in looking even.
but I love him, he loves me too, for the sake of Allah

but you know there might be some brothers, may Allah rectify our condition, who might have folded the religion with a thin sheet of culture. but what to do, no man is perfect in this world, we have problems, we have prejudices.

even I'm being born Muslim(of course there is nothing called a term born muslim, i mean being born in Muslim family), alhamdu li Allah being a practising Muslim, my relatives even behave something like what you mentioned,

not be sad brother, may Allah strengthen your eeman,
of course Allah didn't will you to be think like that you are torn in between.

my advice could be for you, change yourself according to Quran and Sunnah.
because the great companions of rasul Allah salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam were reverted Muslim. they were not bron Muslim, even our Prophet, salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam, he wasnt born in a Muslim family.
but what made Him different, the Quran.
what changed the sahaba radhi Allahu anhum ajmaeen, the Quran.

when you are following the Quran and Sunnah, there is no one, no one in the earth who can say you to stay away, and whatever if they say? what harm is done? Allah loves you, what else we want :)

we are strangers, rasul salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam called himself and us: GHURABA, the strangers

and

may Allah shower His mercy to us, His abd

barakAllahu feek
wassalam
 

saifkhan

abd-Allah
as-salam 'alaikum warahamtu-llahi w abarakatuhu

I was born in Qatar and I've lived there for 16-17years.
I never found something bad, what I read here, and that is a dream land for me even now, although I've heard its all changed(unIslamic environment)!!!

01. of course we are not allowed to make Hijra to a non-Muslim land, but of course everyone's situation is not the same.

02. the problem is with we are in the love of the Dunya, life, family, and for that we can sacrifice our religion even. and for that we make prayer in the closet may the the place surrounded with clubs and other things (of course not in all cases), when we left our countries, where we could pray in jamah five times, but here may be jumuah even in home and may be at afternoon.

03. and we very easily say bad things about our leaders, of course they are the worst, but what we did for the revolutionary change in our countries? only five time salah and to make siam in ramadan is not Islam. why dont we study our religion, why dont we teach our people religion, so that they might become righteous and make revolution for shariah?

even we don't respect our religious scholars, keeping them aside, we dont seek assistance from sheikh, may be we ask him, but when it is against our desire, we dont listen.

i know everyone will say: I'm not the only one , and of course if i only do, it is not sufficient, then I must say that he/she/we must keep quite!

4.what about the people who left everything good in their countries, to live a 'happy''flexible' life in the west? I'm quite sure, even if the Muslim lands offer migration, majority of the Muslims will not come back, majority, I said. because the complain I've heard and still getting, is the 'facilities'. and i guess, the majority of the revert society will migrate. Allahu a'lam.

Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar.
I can understand the situation of us, like we know the remedy , we know the way out, but we are like escaping from the truth, not to the west (as the title of the thread)

wa Allah subhanahu wa ta'la a'lam
wassalam 'alaikum

note: this reply was not directed to anyone, please forgive me, if someone is hurt.
 

complex_man

Junior Member
Brother, while there are rulings that we may have a difficult time to act upon or even to agree with, but such statement as to *laugh* at it is HIGHLY inappropriate. And just so you know, the rulings from the given link above is from a respected scholar, Sheikh Al-Albaani. So perhaps, you could try to refrain from such words in the future, insha Allaah.

OK. but it is not necessary that What ever Shaikh Al labani said is 100% correct. he is human being and can make mistakes. further more, in this fatwa , there is no evidence from Quran. why should we follow some one blindly . we should use our brains.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,


I really think we need to have a discussion on fatawas. We need a serious discussion. Not today.

A fatawa is a ruling. It is an opinion. We respect the scholars who give us sound opinions.

But a fatawa is not absolute. And if given a fatawa I can make fatawa upon that fatawa. Think of the hadeeth with Umar and the old woman. She corrected him.

This is Ramadan. It is silly to restrict or place guilt or separate Muslims based on geography. We should celebrate the fact that Islam continues to grow in the belly of the beast.
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
I can only laugh on such a ruling. only opinions. where is the proof from quran ????? another thing this guy is generalizing the situation. we should use our minds as Allah has given us mind to think and not follow whatever we read from some one which maybe his opinion.


The proof of this from the Book of Allah:

"As for those whose souls the angels take in a state of having earned Allah's anger; then the angels will say to them: "in what condition were you regarding your Religion?" They will say: "we were weakened by the great numbers and strength of the people of shirk in our land who prevented us from iman and from following the Messenger." They (the angels) will reply: "was not Allah's earth spacious so that you could leave your land and homes where the people of shirk dominate and go to a land where you could worship Allah alone and follow His Prophet?" So these people will find their abode in Hell, and what an eveil destination that is. Except for the weak ones from the men, women and children who were unable tomigrate or find a way to do so. As for such, it may be that Allah will pardon them, and ALlah is ever One who pardons and forgives the sins of His servants" Surat an-Nisaa 97-99

Don't forget to read ibn kathir tafasir Surat an -Nisaa 97-99 , why was This ayah revealed
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
Brothers & sisters

It is obligatory for Muslims living in the lands of shirk and kufr to make hijrah to the lands of iman

The basic principle is that it is not permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense.

In the Qur’aan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination!”

[al-Nisa’ 4:97]

In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.



--
And Remember what Allah says for those who make hijra,

وَمَنْ يُهَاجِرْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ يَجِدْ فِي الْأَرْضِ مُرَاغَمًا كَثِيرًا وَسَعَةً وَمَنْ يَخْرُجْ مِنْ بَيْتِهِ مُهَاجِرًا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ ثُمَّ يُدْرِكْهُ الْمَوْتُ فَقَدْ وَقَعَ أَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَحِيمًا ) النساء/100.

004.100


: And whoever emigrates for the cause of Allah will find on the earth many [alternative] locations and abundance. And whoever leaves his home as an emigrant to Allah and His Messenger and then death overtakes him – his reward has already become incumbent upon Allah. And Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.​

spacer.gif

Hijra is obligatry ., as we know muslims who lives in west are not weak and oppressed , so we have no excuse
 

sandra canada

Laa ilaha illa Allah
Assalaam walaikum,


I really think we need to have a discussion on fatawas. We need a serious discussion. Not today.

A fatawa is a ruling. It is an opinion. We respect the scholars who give us sound opinions.

But a fatawa is not absolute. And if given a fatawa I can make fatawa upon that fatawa. Think of the hadeeth with Umar and the old woman. She corrected him.

This is Ramadan. It is silly to restrict or place guilt or separate Muslims based on geography. We should celebrate the fact that Islam continues to grow in the belly of the beast.

we only follow fatwa of the scholars which support with Dalil from the sunnah and quran. All the evidences from Quran & Sunnah indicates that we must Immigrate and leave land of kufr.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

Please do not cast sin upon those who choose to follow Islam and we just happen to live in the West.

We have had this discussion before.

No matter what you say a fatawa is just an opinion. We do not follow fatawa. We follow the Quran. That is the authority.

And Allah tells us the most important thing in faith is to Believe in Him.


What does where you live have to do with Believing in Him.

Just because a land is Muslim majority does not make it a land of Believers.

This thread is not good for Ramadan. We are trying to make peace. This is not about all good Muslims live here and all bad Muslims live there.
 

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
:salam2:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “O Fudayk, establish prayer, avoid bad deeds, and live with your people wherever you like.” [Sahîh Ibn Hibbân (4861)]

The narrators of this hadîth are all reliable.

The meaning of the hadith:

Fudayk belonged to a tribe who were all non-Muslims. Fudayk, who had accepted Islam, used to live with them. Fudayk’s people had requested him to live with them and pledged to him that they would not impose upon him in his faith in any way.

Fudayk then went to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and asked about whether he should emigrate, saying: “O Messenger of Allah! There are people claiming that whoever does not emigrate will come to ruin.”

To this the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “O Fudayk, establish prayer, avoid bad deeds, and live with your people wherever you like.”

Ibn Hibbân explains the meaning of the hadîth as follows [Sahîh Ibn Hibbân (11/203)]:

The command to “establish prayer” is a command indicating obligation upon those being addressed under relevant circumstances.

The command to “avoid bad deeds” is a command indicating obligation upon all Muslims under all circumstances. They must not perpetrate evil and sinful deeds upon themselves or upon others. This refers to all deeds that Allah is displeased with.

The imperative tense of the verb “live” in the phrase “and live with your people wherever you like” indicates permissibility. What it means is that if a person who shuns bad deeds as we have mentioned, then there is no harm in his living wherever he chooses to live, even if the location is not ideal.
Indeed, a Muslim who lives in a non-Muslim country should take the injunctions of this hadîth to heart and live his life accordingly. He should establish prayer. He should avoid fornication, drinking, and all other licentious, sinful deeds.

Its legal implications:


It is generally understood that a Muslim living in an Islamic country should not leave it for a non-Muslim country without a good reason. This hadîth is evidence that if a Muslim is already living in a non-Muslim country and is able to worship Allah and carry out the rites of his religion, then he is under no obligation to leave his country.

Scholars disagree regarding the emigration of a Muslim who lives in a non-Muslim country.

The first opinion is that a Muslim can live in a non-Muslim country as long as he is free to practice his religion. This is the opinion of the vast majority of jurists. It is the ruling followed by the Hanafî, Shâfi`î, and Hanbalî schools of law.

Those who hold this opinion cite the hadîth under discussion as evidence.

Another hadîth which is used as evidence for the permissibility of living in non-Muslim countries is where the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The countries are Allah’s countries and the people are Allah’s servants, so wherever you find good living atmosphere, then live.” [Musnad Ahmad (1420) – with a weak chain of transmission]

The second opinion is that of the Mâlikî and Zâhirî schools of law – that it is obligatory for a Muslim to emigrate from a non-Muslim country to a Muslim country if he is capable of doing so.

They cite hadîth like: “Do not be in sight of each other’s house fires.” [Sunan al-Tiimidhî (1604), Sunan Abî Dâwûd (2645), and Sunan al-Nasâ’î (4780)]
There is disagreement about the authenticity of this hadîth as well as about its meaning.

The third opinion is quite the opposite of the second. Al-Mâwardî and many other Shâfi`î scholars hold the view that if a Muslim is able to practice his religion freely in a non-Muslim country, then he should not leave. They argue that it is his duty to remain in that country, because if he leaves, then the country will be devoid of a Muslim presence.

Conclusions:

What all this amounts to is that there is flexibility in the matter. If a Muslim feels the need to live in a Muslim country where he can practice his religion with greater freedom and comfort, then it is a good thing for him to do so if he gets the opportunity. However, if he finds it better for him to stay where he is, then he is free to do so. As long as he is free to practice his faith, then he may stay in his country. We might add another consideration that he must take into account: He should be able to raise his children as Muslims.

And Allah knows best.

:salam2:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

Just wanted to wish you a belated Ramadan Mubarak. It always so good to read your posts.
 

Just a Guy

Reinventing Myself
Yep, I have to go with sister Aapa on this one. It's Ramadan, dude. I'm trying to sort my life out, just as everyone else is. We can go back to arguing next month.
 

khangul

your sister
:salam2:

but if you claim ur religious rights ,they would say get out of our country.watch this video.

[yt]jpPY9WFOjQ0&feature=player_embedded[/yt]


when i go outside with my daughters (my daughters 9 and 8 1/2 years wear hijaabs) they would stare at me as if i committed a crime , they do not have problem with my hijab but with my kids because they think that we could not change the people who migrated from their countries but their kids will be like us.inshallah in few months :SMILY259: BACK HOME.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

I do not have time to watch the video.

Here in the US, I have always asserted my rights. I have been able to take Friday afternoons off work; I have been able to have my sons excused from school to attend jumma.

Yes, people stare but staring is nothing.

You have to know your rights before you can assert them.

( its good to see you posting)
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
:salam2:

If we all decide to move away from west, who then will help new muslims in the west find islam and advice them during they first steps on this worderful path called islam?
 

Just a Guy

Reinventing Myself
:salam2:

If we all decide to move away from west, who then will help new muslims in the west find islam and advice them during they first steps on this worderful path called islam?

:salam2:

Right on, sister.

You guys can't leave me here on my own. I'll never make it.
 
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