Sister arrested for niqab

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Slow it down sister..slow it down.

I had no way of knowing it was not a recent arrest. So why post under news?

Did I ever say do not wear niqab. No. I just stated if you are cognizant of the repercussions of the law then you need to be prepared.

These sisters need to understand the seriousness of what they are doing. If you want to act like a big girl you can not cry. Do not expect any help. The French posted the law. You broke the law. You need to plan ahead of time.

Are these sisters aware of the legal and economic repercussions to being arrested. Has anyone told them they could end up losing their children. You have to know the details of the law of the land of the kuffir. Is there an advocate for these sisters.

Are these sisters educated and literate. Do they understand?

So slow it down sister...I am wishing the best for them. I am just using my head and asking the question who is teaching these sisters. Are they not being warned about the consequences and are there no social groups to help them.

We will discuss after Ramadan why it makes no sense for many women to go and live in Muslim lands.

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalaam walaikum,

My post must have been deleted. So let me try again.

Wa alaykum salam,

no your post was not deleted.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

And I blame my mother for being a little dotty. Please forgive.

( Brother Mabsoot..please accept my personal thanks for keeping the Ramadan thread open)

 

[esperanza]

iagree these sisters must be aware of the risks they face,,,and if it is not safe...maybe should stay at home...
secondly we are all qucik to condemn western scoieties,,,when these people have emigrated to non muslim countries where have to follow the law of the country,,,,,,while some muslim countries actually ban hijab..not just face covering in public positions,,,

maybe we should improve our muslim societies first...

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

It is not limited to immigrants. I am sure there might be a minority of French born citizens wearing niqab.

But as you say sister..these sisters are not being educated. Why would you want to be arrested. What good deed is there in a woman who is subjected to being searched by the hands of the kuffir.

If you want to change the law than you must have a massive demonstration. You must have the documentation you need for the demonstration. It has to be en masse. Singular acts of disobedience have no impact.

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:

Did the sister break the law? OK, maybe she did. But is this law even just in the first place? I think not. Just because a law is in place does not make it right. Sometimes it's OK to disobey a law if it is not a just law, and I don't think this is a just law at all.

 

[al-fajr]

Assalaam walaikum,

Slow it down sister..slow it down.

I had no way of knowing it was not a recent arrest. So why post under news?

Did I ever say do not wear niqab. No. I just stated if you are cognizant of the repercussions of the law then you need to be prepared.

These sisters need to understand the seriousness of what they are doing. If you want to act like a big girl you can not cry. Do not expect any help. The French posted the law. You broke the law. You need to plan ahead of time.

Are these sisters aware of the legal and economic repercussions to being arrested. Has anyone told them they could end up losing their children. You have to know the details of the law of the land of the kuffir. Is there an advocate for these sisters.

Are these sisters educated and literate. Do they understand?

So slow it down sister...I am wishing the best for them. I am just using my head and asking the question who is teaching these sisters. Are they not being warned about the consequences and are there no social groups to help them.

We will discuss after Ramadan why it makes no sense for many women to go and live in Muslim lands.

Niqaab was never supposed to be an act of defiance or a slap in the face to the law of the land, the sisters who wear dont do so to make a political statement. Its unfair to act like they behaved 'wrongly' just becainuse they didnt organise a mob to support themselves.

In your previous post you ask about the 'benefit' of such action..makes no sense, her face is covered because she believes Allaah commanded her to do so, it really is as simple as that - she benefits by obeying Allaah.

I find your tone entirely condescending especially where you ask if they are literate or not,would you ask such a question if some western woman was picked up by authorities for not wearing enough clothing? You're assuming what the kuffar assume, niqaab = 'uneducated stupid woman'.

In short i assume the sister involved knew exactly the potential risks involved but believes niqaab to be fard, which supercedes secular law and arrest was more preferable than removing her niqaab.


I would type more but maybe later because i cant type very well from my phone - its a pest!

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

Slow down. Think about what I wrote.

I am not saying don't wear it.

What I am saying is so simple. Let me break it down for you.

The law in the country says if you wear a niqab you will be arrested.

I am suggesting that the women who choose to wear a niqab understand the consequences of breaking the law. They have to look at the big picture.

Depending on the judicial system having the fact that you have been arrested will stick with you. In some places social service organizations involve child protection agencies. You can be deemed an unfit mother. This means you have to allow an outside agency to come and counsel you. You may be placed on probation. You children may be taken away from you.

Often most work places do not want anyone with an arrest record. The consequences are you are very limited as to jobs.

Sister, I am presenting a very real picture of the consequences of a simple arrest.

I do not know the French legal system. But they are conservative. I have lived in France. I knew the educational level of many Muslim women, that was a long time ago but the majority were illiterate.

The question I asked is why would you want to put the sisters through this. I do not know the socio-educational level of the niqabi women. I am simply suggesting that the Muslims in France educate the women and have proactive measures in place. They need grassroots organizations to educate and protect their rights.

You have misinterpreted the post. You need to understand the content was not an emotional response as was your reading. If a woman adheres to niqab what is she doing going outside unescorted in a kuffir environment. You can not have it both ways in the legal world.

This is real. This is black and white.

The women choose to live in a country that does not recognize sharia law. They need to organize. They need to step it up and actively engage in the political process. They need to advocate for themselves.

Sister..women who make changes are very active in the political world and proactive legally. The Muslim sisters in France need to mobilize.

Have I made myself clear?

My question is very simple: Is this the battle you want to fight? If so go for it but do not complain. As a woman you have to think about how will this battle affect your children. Slow down sisters and think.
It is not my battle so I can be objective.

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

Slow down. Think about what I wrote.

I am not saying don't wear it.

What I am saying is so simple. Let me break it down for you.

The law in the country says if you wear a niqab you will be arrested.

I am suggesting that the women who choose to wear a niqab understand the consequences of breaking the law. They have to look at the big picture.

Depending on the judicial system having the fact that you have been arrested will stick with you. In some places social service organizations involve child protection agencies. You can be deemed an unfit mother. This means you have to allow an outside agency to come and counsel you. You may be placed on probation. You children may be taken away from you.

Often most work places do not want anyone with an arrest record. The consequences are you are very limited as to jobs.

Sister, I am presenting a very real picture of the consequences of a simple arrest.

I do not know the French legal system. But they are conservative. I have lived in France. I knew the educational level of many Muslim women, that was a long time ago but the majority were illiterate.

The question I asked is why would you want to put the sisters through this. I do not know the socio-educational level of the niqabi women. I am simply suggesting that the Muslims in France educate the women and have proactive measures in place. They need grassroots organizations to educate and protect their rights.

You have misinterpreted the post. You need to understand the content was not an emotional response as was your reading. If a woman adheres to niqab what is she doing going outside unescorted in a kuffir environment. You can not have it both ways in the legal world.

This is real. This is black and white.

The women choose to live in a country that does not recognize sharia law. They need to organize. They need to step it up and actively engage in the political process. They need to advocate for themselves.

Sister..women who make changes are very active in the political world and proactive legally. The Muslim sisters in France need to mobilize.

Have I made myself clear?

My question is very simple: Is this the battle you want to fight? If so go for it but do not complain. As a woman you have to think about how will this battle affect your children. Slow down sisters and think.
It is not my battle so I can be objective.

i know this is a very sensitive issue,,,,,and ihave to agree that if someone is that devout to wear niqab..yes why are they out alone...
i live in a country where women still do not go out alone,,,niqab or not niqab

 

[faaraa]

:salam2:

Simply... Aunt Appa has typed whatever I wanted to type...

Of course I agree that whatever police officer has done is NOT some thing good...

BUT.. This Muslimah could have thought two times at least before stepping out without her Mehram, in SUCH A COUNTRY...

Wa Allahu A'lam...

Plus the brother who has taken this video, could have done some thing too...

All what we have is to list down OUR own faults...

 

[kashif_nazeer]

:salam2:
I would like to chime in a few of my views.
Maybe the sister did'nt have a mahram,it could have been the sister was a revert and didnt have a mahram,of course if the sister had a mahram she should have headed out with him in a country with such a draconian law.It could have been an emergency where she did'nt have time to go out with a mahram or it could have been n number of possible circumstances,in which she could'nt go out with a mahram.
The video was released on liveleak,which is an independant website which is not islamic so the poster might not be muslim and took the video just to get kicks out of it after posting it on internet and satiating some part of his ego in contributing to videos on internet
Anyways,whatever is happening in the video is completely unacceptable to me as a muslim and I am deeply angered by this draconian law.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,


The law in France is the law in France. I do not like it. But that is the law in France.

On the video it could have been a non-Muslim who broke the law. We do not know. It could have been staged. We do not know.
There are no back-up reports.

Do not give me excuses. Excuses do not work in the courts. Hire a lawyer.

People think a little bit.

Niqab is not mandatory. Hijab is mandatory. It is cultural. Women can show face, hand and feet.

The bottom line is simply this: You know the law..you break the law..you pay consequences.

Why is everyone getting a holier than thou attitude. This is small stuff. This is not the stuff that gets you anywhere.

There is no need to get out of shape on this one.
I found it amusing. She starts to scream when the police try to handcuff her. Did she think they would not handcuff her. Welcome to reality. You want to play with the big girls then don't cry. Big girls don't cry.
You broke the law and pay the price. And it ain't pretty.

It has nothing to do with being Muslim.

 

[JenGiove]

:salam2:
The police may have been trying to forcefully remove her Niqab face shield <I'm sorry but I don't know the word for that piece of the Niqab> and then decided to just take her to the police station to do it there since they were drawing a crowd from her screaming. As far as going out unescorted, there was another woman there who was not wearing the traditional Hijab but did have her hair wrapped, like I've seen African woman do so Maybe she wasn't far from home.

I'd love to know what the man with the camera was yelling at the cop when they confronted him. Does anyone have a translation?

 

[Just a Guy]

:salam2:
The police may have been trying to forcefully remove her Niqab face shield <I'm sorry but I don't know the word for that piece of the Niqab> and then decided to just take her to the police station to do it there since they were drawing a crowd from her screaming. As far as going out unescorted, there was another woman there who was not wearing the traditional Hijab but did have her hair wrapped, like I've seen African woman do so Maybe she wasn't far from home.

I'd love to know what the man with the camera was yelling at the cop when they confronted him. Does anyone have a translation?

:salam2:

I think he was saying "Don't touch me." It sounded like "no touchais pas!"

The rest of it I don't know because I don't speak that much French.

 

[ipanda]

As much as I feel your anger, it is their country and their law. Please be fair sometimes. A friend of mine arrived to Iran (i forgot the name of the place she arrived but it is close to Dubai) and she was told to "dress appropriately" which is very nice of the officials to do so. The girl is not Muslim hence the dress code wasn't really applicable to her. But she has to do it. It is the laws, its their land and they live by it. She can't really cross the line and say "I will not wear this kind of dress for it doesn't go with my norms."

Like one Imam said "We hate it but we have to be within the law."

 

[Aroosak]

I think the "education" part that sisters mentioned above were not only referring to knowing how to read or write but knowing the laws of the country you live in.
Here in the US there has been many attacks on the civil liberties of Muslim men and women but in many instances they have failed to defend themselves because they did not know their rights and obligations. Muslims must educate themselves with the laws and how to react in different scenarios. We cannot just act once things have happened.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Wa alaykum asalamwa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu . . .

I thought I won't post here, But I suppose I was wrong.

I just can't believe how you have given your "she deserves what she got" by simply stating:

Assalaam walaikum,
The law in France is the law in France. I do not like it. But that is the law in France.

And

I found it amusing. She starts to scream when the police try to handcuff her. Did she think they would not handcuff her. Welcome to reality. You want to play with the big girls then don't cry. Big girls don't cry.
You broke the law and pay the price. And it ain't pretty.

It has nothing to do with being Muslim.

It is beyond me how you can 'actually' find it amusing when your Sister in faith is being insulted for obeying Allaah? Not to mention pass comments like 'You want to play big girls' and 'big girls don't cry' as if she was out there challenging Idiotcozy for imposing the bann!

Niqab is not mandatory. Hijab is mandatory. It is cultural. Women can show face, hand and feet.

It may not be for you but for some of us, it's our clothes. Hadhrat Aisha wore it and she passed the teaching to us. I believe she knew better about the interpretation of the Quraanic verses than we do. How would you feel if a US banns clothes? Would you or would you not go out clothed. It is not a question of being with a Mahram. Kenza Drieder was dragged by the police and her husband was with her during the protest.

The bottom line is simply this: You know the law..you break the law..you pay consequences.

A law that is against the law of Allaah should be broken! The prophet did that, the companions did that. They were tortured, so this is not new. But did a Muslim who was well and healthy tell them "You know the law..you break the law..you pay consequences".

This is small stuff. This is not the stuff that gets you anywhere.

Weather it gets us somewhere or not, "This" is "not" small stuff. You may not wear Niqaab and you may not know what it means to us doesn't mean it is "small stuff for all".

And meh! to the jobs thing. Allaah is sufficient for us.

 

[al-fajr]

Niqab is not mandatory. Hijab is mandatory. It is cultural. Women can show face, hand and feet.

I disagree with your atittude towards this matter, I don't dispute the facts you have stated but your subsequent demeaning tone toward the sister and as previously mentioned, condescending comments are highly distasteful.

I don't care to comment much more on that.

What I will comment on is the quoted point above because from an Islaamic perspective what you said is completely wrong. Niqaab is very much part of our deen and there is ample evidence in the Qur'aan and Sunnah leading to the valid opinion that it is indeed mandatory.

Those who state it is not mandatory also have their evidences but the very least its status can be reduced to, is that of sunnah.

All the main schools of thought (Hanafi, Shaafi', Hanbali and Maaliki madhaaib) considered the niqaab a valid element within Islaam. No scholar throughout history ever backed the opinion that niqaab is a cultural influence and not a religious practice.

In short, if you personally believe it is a cultural practise then that is entirely your choice but not only do I recommend you to look back to the Qur'aan and Sunnah and correct yourself, but also I request you to not pass off your (incorrect) opinion as an Islaamic one.

Wa-salaam

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

I disagree with your atittude towards this matter, I don't dispute the facts you have stated but your subsequent demeaning tone toward the sister and as previously mentioned, condescending comments are highly distasteful.

I don't care to comment much more on that.

What I will comment on is the quoted point above because from an Islaamic perspective what you said is completely wrong. Niqaab is very much part of our deen and there is ample evidence in the Qur'aan and Sunnah leading to the valid opinion that it is indeed mandatory.

Those who state it is not mandatory also have their evidences but the very least its status can be reduced to, is that of sunnah.

All the main schools of thought (Hanafi, Shaafi', Hanbali and Maaliki madhaaib) considered the niqaab a valid element within Islaam. No scholar throughout history ever backed the opinion that niqaab is a cultural influence and not a religious practice.

In short, if you personally believe it is a cultural practise then that is entirely your choice but not only do I recommend you to look back to the Qur'aan and Sunnah and correct yourself, but also I request you to not pass off your (incorrect) opinion as an Islaamic one.

Wa-salaam

Asalmaoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

You just got a head of me. Jazakallah khair for providing all the evidence on Niqaab.

May Allaah sobhanuhu wa taa'la bless you.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Slow down. Why do you sisters get so defensive. We really need to have a discussion on the emotionalism. Perhaps after Ramadan.


Let us start at the beginning.

1. Dumb law in France. No niqab.
2. Woman wore niqab. Got arrested.

My response: When you defy a law you must be prepared for the consequences. Let me simply this. I like this one. Posted speed limit 75 mph. You drive 76 mph. You will get a ticket. You are going over the speed limit.

Unless you are ready to pay the ticket you do not speed. It is the same with wearing a niqab. The country passed the law. If you break the law do not complain. You have made a choice to break the law.

My suggestion is simple. Muslim women in France need to mobilize. They need to become educated in French law. They need to educate and teach women who wear niqab how to go about and change the law. It will take time. It will take hard work.

Additionally, I questioned the socio-economic levels of Muslim women who wear niqab in France. That would answer where to start the educational process. Would the husbands of these women even allow the women to go to rallies? Who would provide the fund-raising.

I, as usual, was being proactive.

Now..as to the matter of niqab being mandatory. I have never read in the Quran that it is a prerequisite for attaining heaven.