Is Denatured Ethanol halal?

etoile_de_mer

Junior Member
:salam2:
I'm sorta confused. yesterday i went to the supermarket to buy Almond Essence. well i saw one that has the halal logo on it...but in the ingredients list it says "Denatured Ethanol"

i was shocked ..how can something be halal and has ethanol in it.


can u plz explain.
:girl3::salam2:
 

septithol

Banned
Alcohol

:salam2:
I'm sorta confused. yesterday i went to the supermarket to buy Almond Essence. well i saw one that has the halal logo on it...but in the ingredients list it says "Denatured Ethanol"

i was shocked ..how can something be halal and has ethanol in it.

can u plz explain.
:girl3::salam2:

etoile: Well, first of all, 'alcohol' is actually a very non-specific word. There are several different chemicals, all of which are properly called 'alcohol', but their chemical formulas are different. The sort of alcohol you drink (and which I presume is forbidden in Islam) is called "ethanol" or "ethyl alcohol" or "grain alcohol". Although it can be made from things other than grains.

There are other sorts of alcohol which you cannot drink, if you do, they will cause you to go blind, or kill you. They are, however, good for other things, such as dissolving dirt, or scented oils to make perfumes, or as a disinfectant in a cut. As I understand it (and I may be wrong) these other sorts of alcohol are not forbidden by Islam, because they cannot be safely drunk.

Now 'denatured' alcohol, is grain alcohol, or ethanol, to which another chemical has been added, such as one of the poisonous sorts of alcohol, or a different chemical, depending on what it is to be used for. Because of the poison that has been added, it cannot be safely drunk any more, though it can be used for the other things, such as a cleaner, base for perfume, or disinfectant.

I would presume that because this poison has been added to 'denatured alcohol' so that it cannot be safely drunk, is why it is allowed under Islam. But I am not a muslim, so I am not sure, you would do best to ask one of the other more educated people on this board who is a muslim.
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
:salam2:

The alcohol found in liquor is forbidden to drink since it can intoxicate a person. Septhithol is right in that "alcohol" is a generic term in chemistry to indicate certain functional groups on molecular structure. So "alcohol" is not haram in itself but rather certain forms of alcohol and only if you ingest it.

I am somewhat mystified that people freak out when they see the term alcohol on perfumes, lotions, and other bodily substances. It is not for consumption and is simply a chemical that works as a solvent. Intoxicating drinks are what is haram not alcohol in itself.
 

etoile_de_mer

Junior Member
:salam2:
jazakAllah for the replies...but i can understand that it is permissible in cosmetics, but what about almond essence which is used in cakes(having denatured ethanol as ingredients)?
is it hallaal?
 

septithol

Banned
:salam2:
jazakAllah for the replies...but i can understand that it is permissible in cosmetics, but what about almond essence which is used in cakes(having denatured ethanol as ingredients)?
is it hallaal?

etoile, since 'denatured alcohol' is alcohol to which poison has been added, making it unfit for consumption, I can't imagine that it would be used in something to make cakes.

At any rate, when it comes to alcohol and cooking, you should know that alcohol evaporates at a fairly low temperature, cooking such as baking a cake, or cooking meat in it, will cause it all to evaporate, so only the flavor will be left, not the alcohol.
 

septithol

Banned
Etiole: I have been thinking some more about alcohol in cooking, and back to what I learned in chemistry class about liquids. When you cook food with alcohol flavoring in it, the food contains 2 different liquids, alcohol and water.

Now, what happens when you heat a mixture of 2 liquids, is that the temperature of the mixture (or in this case, the food), will first rise to the temperature of the boiling point of that liquid which has the lowest boiling point. It will then REMAIN at this temperature, until all of the first liquid has boiled away and turned into gas (or steam, which is what gaseous water is called).

Then, and only then, after the first liquid is completely boiled away, will the temperature of the liquid then rise again, until it reaches the temperature of the boiling point of the second liquid, the one with the higher boiling point.

In the case of food which is cooked with a flavoring that has alcohol in it, what you have in the food is a mixture of alcohol and water. Now, alcohol has a lower boiling point than water. So what will happen when you cook the food, is that the temperature will go up to the boiling point of the alcohol, which is a lower temperature than the boiling point of the water, and remain there for a while, until all the alcohol is boiled away. Then, after all the alcohol is boiled away, will the temperature rise again, to the boiling point of water, and the food will cook. So, if you have cooked your food properly, for the proper length of time, even if you added flavoring containing alcohol at the start, the alcohol should all have boiled away once the cooking is done.
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
Etiole: I have been thinking some more about alcohol in cooking, and back to what I learned in chemistry class about liquids. When you cook food with alcohol flavoring in it, the food contains 2 different liquids, alcohol and water.

Now, what happens when you heat a mixture of 2 liquids, is that the temperature of the mixture (or in this case, the food), will first rise to the temperature of the boiling point of that liquid which has the lowest boiling point. It will then REMAIN at this temperature, until all of the first liquid has boiled away and turned into gas (or steam, which is what gaseous water is called).

Then, and only then, after the first liquid is completely boiled away, will the temperature of the liquid then rise again, until it reaches the temperature of the boiling point of the second liquid, the one with the higher boiling point.

In the case of food which is cooked with a flavoring that has alcohol in it, what you have in the food is a mixture of alcohol and water. Now, alcohol has a lower boiling point than water. So what will happen when you cook the food, is that the temperature will go up to the boiling point of the alcohol, which is a lower temperature than the boiling point of the water, and remain there for a while, until all the alcohol is boiled away. Then, after all the alcohol is boiled away, will the temperature rise again, to the boiling point of water, and the food will cook. So, if you have cooked your food properly, for the proper length of time, even if you added flavoring containing alcohol at the start, the alcohol should all have boiled away once the cooking is done.

All of this technicality doesn't really matter though. From an Islamic perspective, we do not use alcohol in our food, trying to justify that it *evaporates away*. If it evaporates, why do chefs all over the Western world even bother to add it and use it in an ingredient, if it didn't add something to the taste of the food?

To the sister who originally posted the question, I've submitted your question to the Muslim Consumer Groups website. Let's wait for their answer, inshaAllah.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
All of this technicality doesn't really matter though. From an Islamic perspective, we do not use alcohol in our food, trying to justify that it *evaporates away*. If it evaporates, why do chefs all over the Western world even bother to add it and use it in an ingredient, if it didn't add something to the taste of the food?

To the sister who originally posted the question, I've submitted your question to the Muslim Consumer Groups website. Let's wait for their answer, inshaAllah.

:salam2: Sister,

I might be able to answer that question regarding why cooks use it. Alcohol, in this case Almond essence (extract in America), is used to preserve the extract of the Almonds and as a solvent to "extract" the oils from the almonds, not to flavor the cake.
 

sachin4islam

Junior Member
etoile: Well, first of all, 'alcohol' is actually a very non-specific word. There are several different chemicals, all of which are properly called 'alcohol', but their chemical formulas are different. The sort of alcohol you drink (and which I presume is forbidden in Islam) is called "ethanol" or "ethyl alcohol" or "grain alcohol". Although it can be made from things other than grains.

There are other sorts of alcohol which you cannot drink, if you do, they will cause you to go blind, or kill you. They are, however, good for other things, such as dissolving dirt, or scented oils to make perfumes, or as a disinfectant in a cut. As I understand it (and I may be wrong) these other sorts of alcohol are not forbidden by Islam, because they cannot be safely drunk.

Now 'denatured' alcohol, is grain alcohol, or ethanol, to which another chemical has been added, such as one of the poisonous sorts of alcohol, or a different chemical, depending on what it is to be used for. Because of the poison that has been added, it cannot be safely drunk any more, though it can be used for the other things, such as a cleaner, base for perfume, or disinfectant.

I would presume that because this poison has been added to 'denatured alcohol' so that it cannot be safely drunk, is why it is allowed under Islam. But I am not a muslim, so I am not sure, you would do best to ask one of the other more educated people on this board who is a muslim.

Assalamu Alaikum:

Seems you hold qualifications in Chemistry?. Right?.

Regards.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
All of this technicality doesn't really matter though. From an Islamic perspective, we do not use alcohol in our food, trying to justify that it *evaporates away*. If it evaporates, why do chefs all over the Western world even bother to add it and use it in an ingredient, if it didn't add something to the taste of the food?

To the sister who originally posted the question, I've submitted your question to the Muslim Consumer Groups website. Let's wait for their answer, inshaAllah.

Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Although denatured alcohol is one having another alcohol added to it (Usually methanol or Methyl alcohol) to "inactive" it's toxicating effects, it's "still" got ethyl alcohol or ethanol in it.

I think it'll still would be haram because if you read this fatwa. You'll see that if compositon of something haram is changed it's still haram. It's somewhat related.

Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked whether wine could be changed to be used as vinegar. He said, ‘No.’” (Reported by Muslim).

Abu Talhah (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked about some orphans who had inherited some wine. He said, “Pour it away.” He was asked, “Could they not make it into vinegar?” He said, “No.” (Reported by Muslim).

I believe the sister should avoid it.
 

etoile_de_mer

Junior Member
JazakAllahu Khayran for the replies.
Alhamdullillah i checked the ingredients despite the halal logo upon the bottle.
well the product is Moir's Almond Essence,(u can check it on the file attached)
i did not buy it, Alhamdullillah ..but now i'm thinking that any yogurt or drink that has almond flavour in it is not halal.
bcoz they gonna used that to flavour their products.
and i will use vanilla essence for flavour instead of almond essence.
 

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septithol

Banned
Sachin wrote:
Seems you hold qualifications in Chemistry?. Right?.

I wouldn't call it that. I took a year of Chemistry in high school, and another year in college. I was probably a little below average in that particular class. Although I read a lot, so sometimes I read about chemistry, and I also like to do things with chemistry sets in my basement on occasion. However, someone who is qualified in Chemistry besides taking chemistry in high school would probably take SEVERAL different chemistry courses each year, for at least 4 years, in college.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
Sachin wrote:

I wouldn't call it that. I took a year of Chemistry in high school, and another year in college. I was probably a little below average in that particular class. Although I read a lot, so sometimes I read about chemistry, and I also like to do things with chemistry sets in my basement on occasion. However, someone who is qualified in Chemistry besides taking chemistry in high school would probably take SEVERAL different chemistry courses each year, for at least 4 years, in college.


:salam2:

Besides, all someone needs to do is research alcohol online to learn about it from the chemical standpoint...its not physics...the knowledge is out there, you just have to make the effort to find it...
 

septithol

Banned
JenGiove wrote:
Besides, all someone needs to do is research alcohol online to learn about it from the chemical standpoint...its not physics...the knowledge is out there, you just have to make the effort to find it...

True, the various forms of alcohol are actually fairly simple chemicals.

I would like to make another point, from a genetics point of view (which I know a lot more about than chemistry). There is a genetic disorder which keeps people from being unable to metabolize alcohol properly, so that ordinary alcohol will poison them. Normally, this genetic disorder does not spread very well, as it will kill the person who has it if they drink a lot, or make them extremely sick, if they drink only a little. In which case, they will know that they have it, and tell their children that they might inherit it.

However, in groups where people do not drink alcohol, it is possible for this disorder to spread from parent to child to grandchild, and not be known. This would include Muslims, and also includes the Amish in the US, whom I am thinking of specifically, because there was a case of a young Amish man who died from it, he had this disorder and didn't know it, then one day drank a lot of alcohol at once and died.

Just something to be aware of, this disorder is rare, but it does exist, so if you are a Muslim, and your family has been Muslim for many generations, and decide to drink, try drinking only a little at first, so if you do have this problem, you will get sick, but (hopefully) not die.
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

I'd submitted the question to the Muslim Consumer Group website, and they replied:

Question: If there is Denatured Alcohol in a bottle of Almond Essence, can it be used in baking?

Answer:

AOA

Our recommendation to use in skin care products not in foods.

Soo looks like its not halal? Though they didn't provide the reasoning, better to stay away from it. I wonder how they put the halal logo on it.
 
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