afghan woman stoned

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

Why would those who bet their lives to fight invasion know the Quran and Sunnah! Why would those who try to implement the law of Allaah ever even read the Quran, they can read flashy Islamic magazines and think how barbaric it is to implement Islamic law! Those are just bunch of illiterate maniacs, who know nothing but killing. Their sheikhs are crazy for power and money and that is why they are not so willing to please their Masters in the West.

Only we have read the Quran and sunnah. Only we know and we are so knowledgeable that we know for sure that those people are going to hell and we are going to Jannah.

 

[Perseveranze]

Check your premises. The Nazis had the support of most of the German people.

Your comparing Taliban to Nazi's? Don't think anyone can say something more ignorant than that. Atleast Taliban don't do this -

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ets-life-for-slaughter-of-afghan-civilians.do

The corruption in Afghanistan today is due to the corrupt government and the USA. Thousands of civilian deaths, the rise of crime and bandits etc.

May Allah make the Taliban victorious and drive both the USA/Karzai's government out.

 

[Astrugglingsoul]

:salam2:

Is there any Afghani brother or sister in this forum? I think they can provide some valuable opinions on this topic. We all claiming our thoughts based on secondary sources. some people are saying some sources are biased, corrupt and propaganda machines. It will be better if anyone from Afghanistan could clarify the situation.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Agreed..and there has been a response that the party which was blamed has not accepted responsibility.

Would help if we got more Quran and hadeeth going too.

 

[Precious Star]

Assalaam walaikum,

I believe it was a woman and her fifteen year old daughter.
We are told that a group of Muslim people using Sharia law determined that the woman and girl were guilty of behavior when judged by Muslim law. These people concluded that they must apply the strictest provision of that law to protect the group. And they followed the course.
The name ascribed to these people was attached to a group of Believers who have been deemed to be unworthy by the propaganda machine.

..who are we to judge a group of Muslims who follow the Sharia to the depth and breath and width of it to cast such judgment upon them.

How can we speculate on the decision of a group of Muslims who followed the Law to its strictest interpretation.

.

This is what I mean.

What is your source that in stoning the woman and her 15 yr old, the Taliban were following Sharia to the "depth and breath of and width of it"... who apply the "strictest provision of that law..'

There is nothing in that story that confirms what you have assumed. How do we know this? Were they following Quran and Sunnah when they bombed the school bus of children in Pakistan (for which they did publicly admit responsibility)?

Now you are speculating. If they have followed the strict letter of the law then the 4 witnesses should come forward without hesitation.

Every one is speculating, myself included, yourself included. I will never support the US invasion of Afghanistan. It has done far more harm than good. For the same reason I will not set foot on Americcan soil unless I absolutely have to. However, I have not read anything that that confirms that the Taliban are actively promoting the economic, social, health and educational welfare of its people; we know the US is not doing so, although other countries are trying to. And the Taliban must be transparent about that. They are in the midst of a drought. They are in the midst of a crisis. They must rise to the task. Forget Karzai; if the muslim world believes that the Taliban are what is needed for Afghanistan to prosper on all levels, then they can't be like North Korea, they must be transparent as islam requires transparency. Regardless of what is going on in the US (that last comment was for you Aapa; two wrongs never make a right).

 

[Precious Star]

Also, I would be very interested to know the sunnah behind stoning. It is not in the Quran. Which is surprising because the Quran is a complete message, with very detailed procedures to follow where there are allegatins of known adultery. Why did Allah SWT leave out the stoning part? What does the Hadith say? My understanding is that it comes from the story of a man who admitted he committed adultery, and voluntarily submitted to stoning after speakign with the Holy Prophet PBUH. However, i may be wrong. Did the Prophet PBUH actually say that stoning is the required punishment for adultery, for men, women and children? Did He also endorse public stoning of women and children? What if the adulterer asked Allah for forgiveness?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I will not let you down sister... I have to do a little research... the most known hadeeth is of the woman who kept coming back to the Prophet as she had a child from an illicit union. When she was being stoned..the Prophet asked others to be kind to her. It is in Bukhari.

In my limited knowledge..in the Quran..a woman is to be kept in the house for lewd behavior. I do not know what the particulars are for lewd behavior..

We always have the recourse for forgiveness...

But, Sister, can we limit this to just one topic and not go all over the place to help our understanding of this.

I am not speculating...I am asking for evidence. I am scared to speculate..that is a big no no...I sound like a child..someone teach me..so I can know..

I am totally confused about why you would or would not step foot in the US. The policy of the US is very different from the people.

And, Sister...you do not know how much I appreciate this. We need this on TTI. We need those who are contemplating Islam to understand that serious and professional women will demand from each other evidence..this is part of our faith. We are both trying to practice our faith in the best of ways. And, I am truly grateful that Allah has given me a mind that will test me..I have to say MashaAllah...

Please be patient with me as I tend to my chores..etc and InshaAllah, I will dig up the Hadeeth and Quranic ayats...( anyone who wants to help us out...please..let us make this happen.

 

[Asja]

Assalaam walaikum,


In my limited knowledge..in the Quran..a woman is to be kept in the house for lewd behavior. I do not know what the particulars are for lewd behavior..

Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

As you have mention this dear sister, I wish to ask this question to any brother or sister who can please asnwer Inshallah.

I always wanted to ask this question which I do not understand. Allah sais in Quran that woman should be kept in home if she does imoral act like adultary Astagfirullah. I wish to ask any more knowledgable brother or sister, why Allah mentions this kind of punishment only for us woman,and not for man???

May Allah bless you

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Oh, Sister, there is always wisdom behind all that Allah has given us, I have posed this question to one I know with knowledge. I will either post the answer here or PM you with it, InshaAllah.

 

[septithol]

Perseveranze wrote:

Your comparing Taliban to Nazi's? Don't think anyone can say something more ignorant than that. Atleast Taliban don't do this -

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...n-civilians.do

Perseveranze: Please learn to read English correctly. The original statement was, that the majority of people in countries where the Taliban existed, would not support the Taliban, because they did bad things.

My statement was, that this is an incorrect premise, the majority of people in some countries can and have supported groups that did bad things, such as the Nazis. That being the case, it is entirely possible that the majority of people in a country may also support the Taliban, despite their doing bad things.

Whether the Nazis behaved worse, or better, the same, or differently than the Taliban, is not something I stated, and is irrelevent to what I did say. Do not put words in my mouth.

And I'm curious as to why you would immediately jump to the conclusion that that was my implication, when I never said that. Is it that is what YOU think, so that you ascribe it to others?

 

[Abdul Hasib]

Assalamu Aleykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakaathuh. There are two important figures that we must understand: The Taliban, and Mullah Omar Ahmed (HA).

As for the Taliban, there are two groups from amongst them: Those who are truly righteous, just, and people who try to follow Rasulallah (SAW), and then those who are otherwise. I've seen/heard about soldeirs from the Taliban who sell drugs, gamble, not do their Salat properly, etc. and then they act like as if they are holy chosen by Allah (SWT) to lead the country of Afghanistan. On top of that, there are many of them (and many leaders) who don't even rule by the Shariah, they rule by a Pashtun code known as Pakhtunwali (which originates from ther ancestors who based it on the Torah/Scriptures, since the Pashtun are descendents from Bani Israel). [1]


They are the ones who make everyone in the Taliban to look bad (and they especially make Mullah Omar Ahmed (HA) look bad), but I have one question (especially to the Western non Muslims out there): If a police officer in the United States were to commit a crime/injustice (which is the case with many police officers in NY, NJ, and across the country), then does the blame go ONLY on that officer (who committed the crime/unjustice), or does it go on the ENTIRE police force?

What about those US soldeirs who (individually) butchered (and who WILL be butchered by Allah (SWT) if they don't repent) the Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan? Should the blame go on the ENTIRE US army (and should ALL the soldeirs in the US military face dire consequences) because of the actions of those individuals? Does every soldier in the US military deserve to get a bloodbath/life in prison because the crimes of those other soldiers? Obviously not (since there are many soldiers who are innocent from doing such things). [2] [3]

But why is that Mullah Omar Ahmed (HA) and the (entire) Taliban have to be blamed for the actions of those individuals who commit crimes/evils and PRETEND that they have their allegiance and loyaly to him (and to his cause)? Mullah Omar Ahmed (HA) also ordered the Taliban soldiers/governers to treat the Afghanistani people will mercy and justice, something which (obviously) is not obeyed.

So as for us Muslims, we shouldn't blame Mullah Omar Ahmed (HA) or the REAL mujahideen from the Taliban for the evil actions of their other bretheren. Rather, we should make dua for them, and why? Because they don't want to rule Afghanistan to became powerful bigshots or kings, but they wanted to rule Afghanistan with the JUSTICE of Islam, with the JUSTICE of the Shariah and to turn Afghanistan, a country which was ridden with corruption and evil (thanks to the Soviets and the Munafiqeen) into a country which would give birth to children who would be raised upon the Deen of Islam and upon the Sunnah of Rasulallah (SAW).

And since that's their intention, we can ATLEAST make dua for their guidance, can't we? Many times we give Dawah/make dua for Allah (SWT) to bring the non Muslims to Islam so that they don't go to Jahanam (which is a good cause); but how many times do we make dua for those brothers and sisters who say the Kalimah (and who try to live upon (or who think that they are living upon) the Islam of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamah)? If you look at these brothers and sisters, the ones who are known as being Deobandi, Barelwi, Tablighi, (some cases) Shia, Sufi, etc. who will be suprised to find that from amongst them, there ARE people who YEARN for Allah (SWT), and who YEARN for the Haqq, but Subhanallah, how many of them are upon the Haqq (and the reason why they attach themselves to such names/groups/practices is because they saw their forefathers were upon it)?

And just imagine that after making all of these sacrifices, they get thrown into the fire of Jahanam. Subhanallah. If we have so much desire for Allah (SWT) to guide the non Muslims to Islam, then why shouldn't we feel the same for those people who are misguided and who call themselves Muslims? So anyway, I don't want to waste anybody's time (and nor do I feel that I'm in any position to be talking), but (to get back to the topic), as for the Taliban (and with the Ummah in general), we should make dua for Allah (SWT) to hold the Zalimun (the evild doers) acountable for their injustices, but we should also make dua for Allah (SWT) to give guidance to those brothers and sisters from our Ummah (who say the Kalimah and who understand that the Deen is based on the commands of Allah (SWT) and Rasulallah (SAW), not upon thier whims and desires).

And as for those who are true to their promise to Allah (SWT) (that they will try to do their best to obey him, and will make Tawbah whenever they fall short in their obediance), may Allah (SWT) grant them safety in the Duniyah, the grave, and on the Day of Judgment, and May He grant them Janatul Firdaws, Ameen.

Maulana Abdur Rashid Ghazi, the "deviant Deobandi:"

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070713/asp/foreign/story_8053706.asp

A Shaheed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xfLTlJU-dA

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[this post may have grammatical errors/mistakes because I didn't revise it after typing it all up]

 

[septithol]

Abdul Hasib wrote:

As for the Taliban, there are two groups from amongst them: Those who are truly righteous, just, and people who try to follow Rasulallah (SAW), and then those who are otherwise.

Abdul, this is a very good post, a wise person should look at both sides of everything to try and find the truth, even if one side is unpleasant for him to look at, and he would prefer not to believe it. The fact that you personally, may prefer not to believe something, does not mean that it is not true.

For instance, consider the Taliban members who stone women to death, and claim this is required by the Koran. Are they really sorry that they must stone women to death, and merely trying to follow what they believe to be the teachings of Islam? Or do they actually hate women, and enjoy being cruel to them, and are merely using a few verses from the Koran, taken out of context, to justify the cruel and hateful actions that they enjoy anyways?


Both are possible answers, and both must be considered by someone interested in the truth of the matter. Though, to be fair, using religious verses to justify cruel and evil actions that one would like to engage in anyways, is not unique to Islam. When slavery was allowed in the US, many people found some verse or the other in the bible to justify the evil things they did to black people, such as enslaving and whipping them.

I am whiting out the next comment, as some people here may find it offensive. If you are interested, highlight to read it:

I might also point out that there is an extremely twisted psychological sexual perversion called 'sadism', in which a person gets sexual satisfaction not by having normal sex, but by doing cruel things to other people. Many sadists often disguise their evil perversion, even to themselves, as holiness, since they often are not having sex in the usual way, they think themselves to be (or present themselves to others as) 'holy' and 'pure'.

When the real truth of the matter is, they are actually getting the same sexual satisfaction as everyone else, but by hurting people, not by the normal way of having sex. In the worst cases, such people become serial killers, and may actually have an orgasm not by having sex, but by committing murder. The more slow and painful means they can devise to kill someone, the better the sexual satisfaction is for such people. Far from being 'holy' and 'pure' such people are far more evil and impure than almost everyone else in the world, including those that they might kill for committing adultery.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

As to my news sources...I am all over the place...I read everything...at this moment I am trying to find out who is Diane West...saying nasty things about Muslim women...

I have posted before some of the clearing houses I read..but I read points of view from everyone..the conservative think tanks to business magazines..to alternative internet websites...if you print it..I read it..the Gestalt of it...
I grab every newspaper, I read the fine print on contracts...

I read journals on Islamic philosophy etc. Basically boring person who reads and reads and reads..every free moment I want to educate myself...

I get stuck on the usage of words..psycholinguistics has always been one of my loves..which brings me back to the Quran..It's all there.

Back to topic...I am awaiting a response from one with knowledge..and as they say good things and the Truth are worth waiting for.

May Allah bless us all as we try to gain compassion and understanding.

 

[Asja]

Assalaam walaikum,

Oh, Sister, there is always wisdom behind all that Allah has given us, I have posed this question to one I know with knowledge. I will either post the answer here or PM you with it, InshaAllah.

Wa allaicumu salam wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Jazzak Allah khair dear sister for posting this question, as I really do not understand it. I always wanted to ask this question, but as I saw you have mention it on this thread, I thought it would be good to ask for answer of any more knowledgable brother or sister.

I also wish to say to Septihol that stonning to death for adultary Astagfirullah is not prescribed in Quran but it is ordered in Sunnah of Allahs last Messanger sallahu alayha wa saalam,and all our Islamic Ullama agress that Sunnah is also part of complete Shariah law,and some law does not neccesserily to be mention in Quran if it is already mention in Sunnah.Also Septihol punishment for zinaa( fornification) between unmarried man and woman is mention in Quran but with diffrent kind of punishment than stonning. Allah has created us like a human beings Alhadmulillah and like a human beings we must keep our modesty, shyness, morallity and live decent lifes Alhamdulillah. Shariah law it may seam hard, but commiting zinaa, and other evil acts and not taking required measures is much more harder and with more harder consequences for the Muslim individuals and all mankind in general. And Allah knows the best.

Also to mention that every kind of punishment ordered from Allah and prescribed in Sunnah is equal for Muslim man and woman.

May Allah guide our Muslim Ummah and I pray to Allah that our Muslim brothers and sisters in Afghansitan are just in applying Shariah law. May Allah make them more strong Muslims and help us to apply Shariah law in every Muslim country. Allahume Ameen. :tti_sister:

:salam2:

 

[Precious Star]

Wa allaicumu salam wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Jazzak Allah khair dear sister for posting this question, as I really do not understand it. I always wanted to ask this question, but as I saw you have mention it on this thread, I thought it would be good to ask for answer of any more knowledgable brother or sister.

I also wish to say to Septihol that stonning to death for adultary Astagfirullah is not prescribed in Quran but it is ordered in Sunnah of Allahs last Messanger sallahu alayha wa saalam,and all our Islamic Ullama agress that Sunnah is also part of complete Shariah law,and some law does not neccesserily to be mention in Quran if it is already mention in Sunnah.Also Septihol punishment for zinaa( fornification) between unmarried man and woman is mention in Quran but with diffrent kind of punishment than stonning. Allah has created us like a human beings Alhadmulillah and like a human beings we must keep our modesty, shyness, morallity and live decent lifes Alhamdulillah. Shariah law it may seam hard, but commiting zinaa, and other evil acts and not taking required measures is much more harder and with more harder consequences for the Muslim individuals and all mankind in general. And Allah knows the best.

Also to mention that every kind of punishment ordered from Allah and prescribed in Sunnah is equal for Muslim man and woman.

May Allah guide our Muslim Ummah and I pray to Allah that our Muslim brothers and sisters in Afghansitan are just in applying Shariah law. May Allah make them more strong Muslims and help us to apply Shariah law in every Muslim country. Allahume Ameen. :tti_sister:

:salam2:

Based on the responses to the other thread ("Stoning as Punishment"), it appears that stoning was a punishment used for people who came to the Holy Prophet and voluntarily admitted that they had commtted adultery.
Also, it is unclear still, if this punishment was administered before or after the verses regarding adultery were revealed.

 

[Asja]

Based on the responses to the other thread ("Stoning as Punishment"), it appears that stoning was a punishment used for people who came to the Holy Prophet and voluntarily admitted that they had commtted adultery.
Also, it is unclear still, if this punishment was administered before or after the verses regarding adultery were revealed.

Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu dear sister

Alhamdulillah our Islamic knowledge is limited but we still should know and should try to improve more our Islamic knowledge for the sake of Allah and for the sake of our Muslim Ummah.Although are knowledge is litlle, Alhadmulillah we should know basic of our deen Islam,and that is aslo knowing the rules of Shariah law.

Regarding the Hadeeth of our beloved Prophet sallahu alayha wa saalam which you have mention sister, the truth stories of Muslims who came to Allahs Messanger sallahu alayha wa salam and asked punishment of stonning does not indicate on any way that it was not prescribed in Sunnah and Sunnah is the most imporante part of Islamic law after Quran, in better explination, Sunnah is source and part of Islamic law( Shariah). And Allah knows the best.

Here are also clear Hadeeths sister which were recorded and confirmed as truthfull from our Islamic Ullama which are proving that this kind of punishment was ordered from our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salam and that it was practiced in the begining of Islam and first generations of Muslims.

The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."
(Sahih Al-Bukhari, VOL 2, Hadith Number 413)

Narrated Ubadah ibn as-Samit
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith number 787)

Regarding the Ayahs which you have mention dear sister, as we know there are diffrent kind of Ayahs( but they all are truthfull) like amm ( basic), hass(concrete), nasih(derogate), muhkam( clear), mutashabihat (unclear).Allah subhanu wa teala was revealing Quran to our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salam for 23 years and in this long period, some rules which were ordered in the begining of Islam were changed after some time and made perfect from Allah. Also for example, we know that praying salah is ordered from Allah to us Muslims and it is Fard for us, but Allah did not explained us on which way we will preform Salah, but it was explained only in Sunnah.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

And Allah knows the best.

 

[Perseveranze]

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"Do not accept anything that you have no knowledge of. Surely the hearing, the sight and the mind you are responsible for." (Quran, 17:36)​

 

[Perseveranze]

Perseveranze wrote:

Perseveranze: Please learn to read English correctly. The original statement was, that the majority of people in countries where the Taliban existed, would not support the Taliban, because they did bad things.

My statement was, that this is an incorrect premise, the majority of people in some countries can and have supported groups that did bad things, such as the Nazis. That being the case, it is entirely possible that the majority of people in a country may also support the Taliban, despite their doing bad things.

Whether the Nazis behaved worse, or better, the same, or differently than the Taliban, is not something I stated, and is irrelevent to what I did say. Do not put words in my mouth.

And I'm curious as to why you would immediately jump to the conclusion that that was my implication, when I never said that. Is it that is what YOU think, so that you ascribe it to others?

Your implication still isn't right, in a sense insulting to the Afghani people who have suffered for a long time under the USA and current governments brutal regime.

The Taliban and Nazi's are entirely different people, the Nazi's persecuted and wanted to take over the world, whilst the Taliban are Mujahedeen freedom fighters, who are simply trying to protect their land and their people.

I'd strongly recommend you further research about Taliban from more credible sources. I'm sure it would deter you from making such questionable statements.

 

[septithol]

Asja wrote:

I also wish to say to Septihol that stonning to death for adultary Astagfirullah is not prescribed in Quran but it is ordered in Sunnah of Allahs last Messanger sallahu alayha wa saalam,and all our Islamic Ullama agress that Sunnah is also part of complete Shariah law,and some law does not neccesserily to be mention in Quran if it is already mention in Sunnah.Also Septihol punishment for zinaa( fornification) between unmarried man and woman is mention in Quran but with diffrent kind of punishment than stonning. Allah has created us like a human beings Alhadmulillah and like a human beings we must keep our modesty, shyness, morallity and live decent lifes Alhamdulillah. Shariah law it may seam hard, but commiting zinaa, and other evil acts and not taking required measures is much more harder and with more harder consequences for the Muslim individuals and all mankind in general. And Allah knows the best.

I don't know anything about what God might or might not think of adultery and fornication. As I am not a Muslim, I don't regard the Koran as proof. I don't regard the bible as proof, either.

I DO know that there are psychologically disturbed people, who gain sexual satisfaction from bizaare things, which can include starting fires, in the case of pyromaniacs, or from hurting or killing people, in the case of sadistic psychopaths. And that this can, in fact, be proved and measured, with the right equipment. I imagine a sadistic psychopath probably has a feild day, in a society that has laws or customs that allow him to engage his murdering habits, and rather than lock him up, praises him for it and puts him in charge of the society. I don't think it's a good idea to create a society that puts power in the hands of sadistic psychopaths at all.

Even if one is not already a psychopath, making a practice of inflicting pain on others is not a good idea, it will often cause psychological disturbance in the one who does it, starting out with gradually making one more and more comfortable with the idea of inflicting pain on others.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Problem here is that this is a Muslim site. We Believe in every letter of the Quran. Every letter.

Now, there is a slight problem with the rest of your post. You are using a lot of psycho-babble. You are using technical words without any expertise. The danger in using psycho-babble is the fact that is causes confusion. You are mixing individual aberrant characteristics and group behavior. It creates a diagnostic mudball.

Inflicting pain..Yet, this is a punishment. It is the consequence of inflicting pain on others.

Lets say the posted speed limit is 100 mph..you drive 125 mph...you knowingly trespass the law. The least of the punishments would be a citation..the most would be death. Does this make sense.