VACCINATIONS

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Have you read the journals? Have you been with a patient when they exhaust the funds for chemotherapy. Have you read what the other treatments are? What personal experience do you have with people who have been diagnosed with cancer and choose alternative therapeutic modalities.

Why rule out what works for people. The sheer arrogance of the medical model is sad.

It is ok to think and live outside the box. You do not have to but let others make up their own minds without condemning them.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I came across this..it is funny:

“INTERPRETATION: The lower immunogenicity and efficacy of rotavirus vaccines in poor developing countries could be explained, in part, by higher titers of IgA and neutralizing activity in breast milk consumed by their infants at the time of immunization that could effectively reduce the potency of the vaccine. Strategies to overcome this negative effect, such as delaying breast-feeding at the time of immunization, should be evaluated.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20442687

give the baby our formula..it is better than the real thing..go figure.

 

[ShyHijabi]

:salam2:

1. Chemotherapy is a HUGE umbrella term for hundreds of different medications. Cancer is a HUGE umbrella term for multiple pathologies fitting under certain classifications. So saying that chemo doesn't work in all cases, or even the majority, is absolutely incorrect. And there is no panacea for all the cancer, if there is a supplement or alternative therapy it would not work on every cancer.

2. I read the paper and it does NOT recommend using formula.Rather it recommends to delay breast feeding immediately after the vaccine is given to allow the vaccine to be more efficacious. So basically you wait an hour or so then nurse your baby.

3. Osman's point is that allopathic and osteopathic medicine have show a clear and sharp increase of life expectancy and quality of life. Before these forms of medical care were practiced more people suffered and died of preventable diseases. We have provided hard numbers and specific research to show why we think vaccines and prescribed medicines should be used and not avoided. I think the onus of proof now is on the people who states vaccines and medicine are dangerous and should not be used.

Sister Aapa, I am still waiting on your homeopathic remedies for polio, measles, mumps and congenitally contracted Rubella in pregnant women.

 

[sister herb]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister..we have to respect individual choice. In the case you mention they did not use diet and alternative medications.

You can not mandate how a person chooses to live life. There is no compulsion.


You can not call me stupid if I do not trust the medical world. Especially, here in the US.

:salam2:

My mention wasn´t call anyone here as stupid but behavior when someone deny medical care as vaccination from his/hers children is pure stupidity.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

No sister. It is simply a matter of choice. There are people who trust other models. Yes, vaccinations can be seen as a safeguard but the choice must rest on the parent and their comfort level of what is necessary for the child. This is not ruling out other treatments. The choice must be left to the parent. We may not agree with the choice but it is not our decision nor judgement.

 

[sister herb]

Assalaam walaikum,

No sister. It is simply a matter of choice. There are people who trust other models. Yes, vaccinations can be seen as a safeguard but the choice must rest on the parent and their comfort level of what is necessary for the child. This is not ruling out other treatments. The choice must be left to the parent. We may not agree with the choice but it is not our decision nor judgement.

:salam2:

I agree.

The choice must be left to the parent.

Even when parents are wrong. It is they mistake then and they carry it.

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

:salam2:

I wouldn't consider it 'stupidity' subhanaAllah. Before going ahead with the vaccinations of my second child, I've asked a person of knowledge and this person told me there is nothing wrong in vaccinations (Islamically speaking of course). Then it's up to the parents, they might pray istikhara and khayr inshaAllah. I know some sisters who didn't vaccinate their kids and never thought they are stupids... la hawla wa la quwata illa billah, with or without vaccinations, if your Qadr is to get sick somehow... you will InshaAllah! If Allah has decided to test you with your health or the health of your kids, alhamdulillah 'ala kulli hal!

 

[sister herb]

:salam2:

I call it stupidity or ignorance.

Does Islam ask us not use medical care if here is something we can help us?

:tti_sister:

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2:

What is the Islamic perspective on childhood immunizations or vaccinations? There is evidence to prove that they can be harmful to the body, but they are required in many countries. This is a very important topic that many do not have an adequate understanding of.

Praise be to Allaah.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:

What is the ruling on giving treatment before sickness occurs, such as vaccinations?

He replied:

There is nothing wrong with giving treatment if there is the fear that the disease may occur because of the presence of an epidemic or other factors which may cause disease. There is nothing wrong with giving medicine to ward off the feared disease, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, according to the saheeh hadeeth, “Whoever eats seven dates of Madeenah in the morning will not be harmed by witchcraft or poison.” This is a kind of warding off a problem before it happens. So if there is the fear of sickness and a person is vaccinated against an infection that is present in the land or elsewhere, there is nothing wrong with that, because it is a kind of protection. But it is not permissible to wear or hang up amulets etc against sickness, the jinn or the evil eye, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that, and explained that this is a kind of minor shirk [associating others in worship with Allaah], so it must be avoided.

Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/21

With regard to the harm suffered by those who are given some vaccinations, namely a short-lived fever or other side-efects, these drawbacks may be overlooked when compared with the great harm that is warded off, namely the diseases that may kill or cause great harm to a person’s health.

This is similar to the case of circumcising boys by cutting off a piece of skin and the intense pain that is caused to the infant; this is outweighed by the great benefits that are served by this action, serving the religious interest of purity (tahaarah) and numerous worldly benefits.

The general shar’i principle with regard to this matter is that the lesser of two evils may be done in order to ward off the greater evil, if it is necessary to do one of them. Al-Ashbaah wa’l-Nazaa’ir by al-Subki, 1/45.

But if it is medically proven that a specific vaccine causes harm to the body or that its harmful effects outweigh its effects of warding off disease, then it is not permissible to use it in that case, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “There should be neither harm nor reciprocating harm.”

And Allaah knows best.

End of Quote

IT HAS NOT BEEN MEDICALLY PROVEN THAT A SPECIFIC VACCINE CAUSES HARM TO THE BODY OR THAT ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS OUTWEIGH ITS BENEFICIAL EFFECTS

:salam2:

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Yes, brother. May Allah reward you for sharing this with us.

 

[islamerica]

:salam2:


IT HAS NOT BEEN MEDICALLY PROVEN THAT A SPECIFIC VACCINE CAUSES HARM TO THE BODY OR THAT ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS OUTWEIGH ITS BENEFICIAL EFFECTS

:salam2:

This part is debateable....

When Vaccines Do Harm to Kids - http://www.gulfwarvets.com/kids.htm

Can Vaccines Actually Cause More Harm Than Good?

Vaccine Safety and Benefits Not Scientifically Proven

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

This part is debateable....

When Vaccines Do Harm to Kids - http://www.gulfwarvets.com/kids.htm

Can Vaccines Actually Cause More Harm Than Good?

Vaccine Safety and Benefits Not Scientifically Proven

:salam2: Sister,

It is only debateable when there is evidence that it does cause harm. So far, the only evidence that is explicit is refuting any harm. An example is what I posted above related to autism, and here it is again:

MMR vaccine DOES NOT cause autism

There are even systematic reviews/metaanalyses that provided firm evidence of the safety of some vaccines. This is just one example:

Efficacy of Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccination of children: a meta-analysis

More evidence from TRIPDATABASE

Systematic reviews are better at assessing strength of evidence than single studies. They are vital in health care because:

• they save lives by highlighting the best treatments and identifying those that are unproven or harmful.
• they save money by indicating when enough research has been done.
• they help prevent unethical studies by avoiding duplicate or unnecessary animal and human trials.

So evidence in medicine means providing studies from the healthcare literature to support or refute a point. The links you provided are not even close to evidence, nor are the references they cited.

Please provide us with good scientific evidence that immunizations can cause serious harm, then we can say it is debateable.

If you would like to know more about Evidence-Based Medicine or the hierarchies of evidence, there are plenty of resources on the internet, or you are welcome to PM me. I don't want to bore anyone.

We are not trying to force anyone to get immunized (or their children). We are just trying to keep everyone well-informed. There are lots of misconceptions in the medical field, and vaccinations is one still "hot potato" (even though it should have been cooled off years ago).

:salam2:

 

[islamerica]

I suggest visiting the last link and reading it in its entirety.

Vaccine Safety and Benefits Not Scientifically Proven

I am not going to start believing in the "facts" you quote from the same people who are behind spreading diseases and illnesses in the world for their gain, population control and whatever agendas they have. We have poor countries in Europe too but all this famine and stuff is only in non white nations and continents and all the corporations and health organizations are white owned and run, it doesn't take a genius to see the whole picture.

 

[Mr President]

interesting...

 

[ShyHijabi]

I suggest visiting the last link and reading it in its entirety.

Vaccine Safety and Benefits Not Scientifically Proven

I am not going to start believing in the "facts" you quote from the same people who are behind spreading diseases and illnesses in the world for their gain, population control and whatever agendas they have. We have poor countries in Europe too but all this famine and stuff is only in non white nations and continents and all the corporations and health organizations are white owned and run, it doesn't take a genius to see the whole picture.

:salam2:

Does anyone who follows this quack actually read up on his "theories?" He says that vaccines are the cause of shaken baby syndrome! Say What?! Have you ever seen a baby that has been shaken? No? Then how about you stop furthering the extremely dangerous claptrap this evil man is spouting?

I am mystified that the Muslim doctors on this board are telling you we vaccinate our children and have shown REAL research, real numbers, and real results but some insist in using blogs, conspiracy theories (that have not had one grot of solid research done), and people with extremely questionable credentials. I am starting to think these conspiracies are the real trick to getting Muslims to die off in mass.

 

[shaheeda35]

:salam2:
There is great controversy concerning the vaccinations and everyone is entitled to their opinion. My son has Autism,and I DO NOT believe its from any vaccinations he had when he was younger(he is 10 now). It is the decree of Allah and that is enough for me no matter how stressful it is.

They offered the vaccination for the flu and the cervical cancer vaccine to both my daughters, but I refused because that is my choice. Only you know what is best for your child/ren and no one should be put down for their decision.

Allah knows best.

 

[ShyHijabi]

:salam2:

Shaheeda, I agree with you but to an extent. People refusing to vaccinate their children against very serious illnesses (polio, measles, etc.,) because of conspiracies being spouted but not proven, need to reassess their parenting. It's like saying it's ok to drive around without your child in a carseat or with a seatbelt. While it is a choice, it is a very poor one.

There is a big difference between selective or delayed vaccination versus just not having you child receive ANY vaccines. Your method makes sense, the people who refuse to vaccinate at all due to fear mongering, not so much.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

But, as the sister said..it is the choice of the parent. I am not telling anyone not to vaccinate.

Sister Shyhijabi, I am glad you brought the subject of certified medical doctors on this forum. It is remarkable that we have such wealth on this forum.

Yet, this is a forum about Islam. We have had the privilege of having current medical opinion and statistics to help make up our minds. But, for some of us it is just living life on a different lane on the Path.

It does not make someone right or someone wrong. We have varied views on a subject that is very close to our hearts, our children.

And, Sister, please be patient with me. I am spending time trying to research Muslim medicine. I am stuck in the 12th century. I have to go back six and forward many many more. InshaAllah, I will gain knowledge. When I do I will open a new thread. The plethora of information about a single physician has me a little spellbound.

 

[strive-may-i]

we need a good 'Health Care System' and not 'Health Scare/Scar System'

:salam2:

Every one knows that taking care of one's health using the best halaal means is indeed a duty.

Ibn Abbas reported, Prophet "Health and free time are two great blessings the benefits of which most people are deceived about."

“Seize five opportunities before the five (calamities): your youth before weakness in old age; your health before your sickness; richness before poverty; your leisure before business; your life before death." (Tirmidhi)

Hence, good life style, doctors, Vaccinations, medicine, that help us in this matter are welcome. From Health point of view, we could classify it as
1. Must - Small Pox, Tetanus, heart surgery, accident treatment, first aid, epidemic treatment...
2. Beneficial - Say appendicitis, eye correction, hearing aid, Prosthetics for severly disabled, flu medicine while travelling
3. Ok to Skip....

So we are I think trying to say greater freedom for 2,3.

And about alternative medical systems like Islamic,Homeopathy, Unani, Ayurvedic Traditional Chinese, Accupuncture, Chinese Herbology, ifa, Siddha and even the local Home Grown medicines, they have proven to be handy and helpful in day to day primary health care needs. They were the result of best scientifically proven practices of old times, some are relevant to this day, others are not... The medicine system has improved by leaps and bounds in past century.

The objections I think are arising due to health care becoming a business, and the honest, humane ones in medical business are very aware of the evil effect .

And there is one more aspect, our generation all over world is totally oblivious/ignored the local home grown medicines for common ailments and health condition. Right before our eyes this wealth of knowledge is disappearing, together with the environment degradation...
I for one would be happy to learn some more of the homegrown medicines from elders..

Recently, A working educated lady it was reported visited doctor with a fully swollen Hand, since she did not know what to do for ant bite, and got hospitalized for half a day. All that the lady had to do was, remove the stinger from the finger tip, without squeezing it [formic acid], wash the hand, use ice together with lavendar oil or turmeric powder or even toothpaste!!

So Parents, young ones, old ones, take care of your health, be aware where to show your discretion and where to obey the doctors order, And Health Care System, should provide cost effective treatment and not make it 'Health scare/Scar System '!!!

Just my viewpoint..

 

[islamerica]

:salam2:
I am mystified that the Muslim doctors on this board are telling you we vaccinate our children and have shown REAL research, real numbers, and real results but some insist in using blogs, conspiracy theories (that have not had one grot of solid research done), and people with extremely questionable credentials. I am starting to think these conspiracies are the real trick to getting Muslims to die off in mass.

the products of the society will parrot what the system as taught them, even if they are wrong. It's great that your a doc,good for you. But don't go thinking you know better than others, you would be no different than the social workers that break families apart thinking they are doing good when it's the other way round. Humans survived without vaccinations and they will till end of the world. You can pump your darlings with unwarranted "vaccinations" all you want, but stop imposing your views and your "real" research on others.

You won't find much anti-vaccine "real" research based facts because such people are silenced rather quickly. It's bad for business and profits for people to stop taking vaccinations, especially when the politicians are the board members, directors and investors of these corporations.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/21/eveningnews/main569522.shtml