Working/Professionalism & Hayaa

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Assalamu'alaykum

I saw the post quoted below in another thread and so I decided to make a seperate one on the matter.

I've reached the conclusuion (after many months) that in a professional work place a muslim woman cannot afford to be awkward/too quiet around the opposite gender without it having more of a negative impact.

I don't think a Muslim woman should 'fear' the opposite gender or behave awkwardly, feeling uncomfortable is not a choice obviously but I think its better to take control of the situation you're in, rather than be in it lamenting in your heart and mind and wishing yourself elsewhere. Taking control of the situation as far as you can is far more workable and sustainable and through doing so you set your own boundaries.

Non-Muslims mostly don't understand awkwardness/caution arising due to shyness or modesty.Its put down to a number of other things ..

I'd say:

- Be confident not awkward, even if you feel uncomfortable.
- Be wise, vigilant and yes, cautious
- Shyness doesn't mean making yourself a victim of others peoples presumptions by never speaking, speaking like a mouse if you ever do.
- Don't invite other people's pity, curiousity or whatever ..

Thats another thing, if you're unnaturally awkward and overly cautious; walking around as if everyone has a contagious disease you don't want to catch, then you do invite people curiosity; unfortunately it is the people you definitely don't want to be speaking to, if you can help it.

If you show you're scared or nervous, a man might go ahead and put his hand on your shoulder to reassure you ..! It has certainly happened to a sister I know (Alhamdilillah, not me), but thats horrible.

So try to understand the context, its a completely different outlook and interpretation and if you happen to work, you need to grasp this.

I guess my main point here is don't trasplant your modest/shy behaviour you adopt when in a familiar muslim environment, to the professional work place. It needs adjustment in a number of ways.

I'm posting this because actually I learned all of this from scratch over a number of months, only when I discussed it with some other sisters I disocovered this was a surprisingly generic experience and they often speak about it in anguish.

Any thoughts ..

:salam2:

Excuse for going out-of-topic for a bit, but i just wanted to comment on something.

Being awkward, cautious, or uncomfortable around opposite gender is not a weakness akhee and ukhtee... in fact its one of the biggest blessings that Allah gave both of you as a form of His protection and guidance... its also one of the form of haya' [shyness], and its one of the essential characteristics of a mu'min [higher degree than a muslim] because of hadeeths that clearly states that it is part of our Imaan.

Narrated ‘Abdullah (bin ‘Umar) (raa) : Once Allah’s Apostle (saws) passed by an Ansari (man) who was admonishing to his brother regarding Haya’ (shyness). On that Allah’s Apostle (saws) said, “Leave him as Haya’ (shyness) is a part of faith.”

Belief – Sahih Bukhari: Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24

Yahya (raa) related to me from Malik (raa) from Ibn Shihab (Radiallahu Anhu – Translation: May Allah be pleased with him) from Salim ibn Abdullah (Radiallahu Anhu – Translation: May Allah be pleased with him) from ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (Radiallahu Anhu – Translation: May Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (saws) passed by a man who was chiding his brother about modesty. The Messenger of Allah (saws) said, “Leave him. Modesty is part of iman.”

Good Character: Section: Modesty – Malik’s Muwatta: Book 47, Number 47.2.10

Salim (Radiallahu Anhu – Translation: May Allah be pleased with him) reported on the authority of his father that the Prophet (saws) heard a man instruction his brother about modesty. Upon this the Prophet (saws) remarked: “Modesty is an ingredient of Iman (faith).”

The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) – Sahih Muslim: Book 001, Number 0057

Source of Ahaadeeth

Now both of you may [or may not] view that characteristic of yours ["fear" of opposite gender] as a fault, or defect in your character because modern psychology view it as that, or because it is not "normal" in society. Let me tell you that "normal" is so overrated, plus knowledge of men [modern psychology in this case] is partial, it only view things from a narrow point of view, while knowledge of the deen is complete, because it encompasses all aspects of life, and judge things from Allah's perspective [based on daleel]...
I don't disagree with this post, I'm just using it as a starting point here.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

You are describing finding a balance in a mixed workplace.

Sister, if I had know the beauty of working in a segregated workplace I would never have worked in a mixed place. I am so happy now.

You keep a boundary. You can not go out with them. You keep the work at work. You set limits and let everyone know they are not to touch you. You are not going to touch my elbow when greeting me in the morning. I will not be alone in a room with you. When I have a meeting I will keep the door open.

I am glad you brought this up.We need this for the young ones who are entering the work place.
 

Noor El-Huda

Junior Member
Sister Aapa I totally agree. I feel I can't thank Allah enough for being blessed with this job which is working with women only. (Although it is temporary, so wil see what happens). I know the majority of times we do not have the choice. But I thought I'll share my experience that it is deffinately an excellent thing and truly comfortable if one had that choice.
 

Murad206

La ilaha illa-Allah.
Assalamu alaikum, I don't think you should ever be shy or scared to speak your mind. That's one of the thing's iv'e learned since my Taqwa wen't up, and remember only fear Allah Subhanau Wa Ta'ala Almighty.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
My initial post got a bit wordy, I'm normally concise when I know what exactly I'm talking about, I confess I wasn't 100% sure what my point was exactly when I started, but knew whatever it was sort of needed to be said.

Aapa said:
You are describing finding a balance in a mixed workplace.

Sister, if I had know the beauty of working in a segregated workplace I would never have worked in a mixed place. I am so happy now.
Yes, I guess I am..

Sounds like a very nice option ..

Aapa said:
You keep a boundary. You can not go out with them. You keep the work at work. You set limits and let everyone know they are not to touch you. You are not going to touch my elbow when greeting me in the morning. I will not be alone in a room with you. When I have a meeting I will keep the door open.
BarakAllaahu feeki.


PeArLL said:
Sister al-fajr, this is very helpful...
JAZAKALLAH KHAIR...
Wa-iyyaki, that's good to know sis.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
:salam2:

A very relevant topic. Workplace is a very broad term, a construction site is also a work place, an art theater is also a work place, an operation theater is also a work place!! Not all are suitable, the interactions and its nature in each place is totally different... The workplace demands and it decides the nature of interaction.


Some roles are definitely not suitable and tough to manage. Example secretary, a teacher in school faces a different environment compared to teacher for teens, same applies to client facing roles, sales force, etc. I think various approaches are needed...

Some end up sometimes in jobs/roles where the interaction is inevitable. I think it might be easier for a man than a women. And yes, there are some workplaces where its not easy even for a man. There are men, who have baseless worries about modern office where both sexes work. These men act awkward, and often rude, and that is not good...Its still possible to keep a boundary, in modern equal opportunity offices. One sticks to the role and do not contribute a bit more, in your interaction with opposite gender. Keep it brief, to the point and once task in hand is done, step out. The message goes out loud and clear, you are here for business, business is pleasure. It does work out.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Assalamu'alaykum,

Wonderful, perhaps we can posts bits of advice in this thread about working in the so called professional work place, as Muslims?

Advice can be from both brothers and sisters, it may prove to be quite a beneficial thing to do.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
:salam2:,

Although I came to the abovementioned conclusion a long time ago, I have another inquiry pertaining to "professionalism":

What of "professionalism" when you're working in a hands-on rehabilitation setting? I'm currently in grad school for Occupational Therapy and it requires that I know the complete anatomy of the human body like the back of my hand. I need to be able to pinpoint anatomical structures using sight AND touch. One of my instructors questioned me on the first day of my Kinesiology lab, asking me how I was going to be able to have others palpate my neck muscles (we initially practice on each other) if my hijab covered my neck? She also made me think about how I would truly know I was feeling the right muscle if the instructor didn't "guide" my fingers to the right muscle if I was making a mistake? I was reminded that this is a "professional" and learning environment, not a social one.

I guess my question is: For the sake of learning, what "professional" allowances can we make?
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Assalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Great topic you brought up, mashaa Allaah.

Not sure if this is going to answer any of the questions brought up, but I'd just like to share my experiences being a member of an "Islaamic" organization. So this is simply my perspective and my own POV, how I see things from my own lenses.

We all know that the approach of a woman to another woman is different compared to of a woman to a man. Approach when it comes to dealing with work/business.

With men, you make it straight to the point, no beating around the bush, in details, clear in your words and strict. Yes, strict. Meaning that if it concerns about completing a certain task, you give a clear overview on when to submit: day, date, time [yes, as far as mentioning the time like submit before 12am]. If the men are loyal and hardworking, the type that submits in time and have great team-working, then you keep the pace. But if he's the type that will certainly submit tasks late/difficult to be cooperative/just simply being a lazy person by giving his tasks to others, that's when you be stricter in your tone. You give the same task to him but in a strict manner like if this task isn't submitted by this specific time, then you'll have to do extra work etc.

This is to let them know that you are professional in your work: I am a gentle woman but when it comes to work, work is work. Also to let them know that you are a considerate person [you'll be understanding if he has other burden to fulfill so that you'll reduce the amount of work] but in the same time telling him that you are not a person whom he can "mess up with".

In short, with men, you make it clear and only talks about that which is important and related. Only that. So as not to make the conversation leads to that which is obviously not necessary.

But when it comes to dealing business between a woman and a woman, your tone can be a lot gentler. You are able to guide that person if she is in confusion. You may ask her about her problems that seems to be distracting her from doing her work professionally. That way, unintentionally, you will actually create a bond with the women thus it'll make the relationship fulfilling when working in a healthy environment. That's why I have always prefer to work among women only; you can just be yourself, ask silly questions, laugh together. . something that you cannot do in a mixed environment. You keep the ha'ya [bashfulness] high in its place when you are dealing with the opposite gender. Not that we are being a hypocrite by doing this, but its all about keeping our modesty and imaan at its right time and place.

This actually reminds me of the hadeeth when a woman asked the Prophet :saw2: regarding the women's hygiene. For some shy women, they'll think that such question is so daring and something that you definitely won't ask to a man. But when it comes to knowledge, you seek knowledge as far as to its deepest roots. There is no shyness in asking questions for the sake to gain a better understanding of the deen or the tasks given. But the proper manners [adaab] still need to be practice; always.

I guess we actually learn this better when we, ourselves face it. Deal with the people ourselves. Sometimes, we might caught up in a very uncomfortable mixed situation, it's that time when you use your imaan and wisdom to guide you. If it seems that there's a lot more fitnaah created in such place no matter how hard you try to keep your modesty, that's when you know you will have to walk out from such place.

My points are a bit mixed up and not sure if it's even off-topic lol but hope everyone gets it, inshaa Allaah.

Wa'alaykummusalaam wa rahmatullah.
 

Mairo

Maryama
I think learning how to conduct oneself in the workplace with the utmost professionalism is extremely important. You need to learn what you need to do to effectively guard yourself, while also working cooperatively with others. Be respectful and earn respect, and conduct the work in a professional manner with anyone you come in contact with, demonstrating the best of Islamic morals and character.

Sister Shanazz, sounds like a very interesting field to be working in. I'm not sure if this is feasible in your current situation, but I would recommend that you always work with female subjects only. I hope that this will be possible for you to acheive. Maybe others who work in a healthcare setting can weigh in on this as well.

Wasalaam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

There is an unspoken code. Here are some of the rules.

1. Space. Physical space. When standing stand at an angle. Thus you are not face to face. Avoid eye contact. An occasional glance to communicate that you are still attentive is ok. And always maintain that distance. That is your entitled bubble.

2. When you are seated always go into the hands on lap, back straight up, feet crossed at the ankle. Maintain physical space. Do not question unnecessarily. Limit conversation after salutations. If not your office..do not linger whatsoever.

3. I always kept my office door wide open. When law required that I have a closed door session I made it as brief as possible and to the point.

But hijab gives you that protection.
 

hayat84

I'm not what you believe
:salam2:
some days ago I rea a hadith about the signs of the Qiyyama,and there was that about the "equalness"bbetween man and woman,where the woman will have the same charge of work as men and where she will be called to follow he same career of him(correct me if I'm wrong).
I suppose to be a good housewife,I've never worked in a workplace in my life,'cause of my awckwardness/shyness,and I feel really happy.my husband says:<I don't want you to work under the feet of anybody,I'll take care of you and you'll take care of me>
what's better that that?:):wasalam:
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Assalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullaah,

ShahnazZ: Occupational Therapy ..well I found one relating to Medical Students, on the same trend though it deals with physical contact for the sake of learning.

Whether or not Occupational Therapy is considered communal obligation or not, I don't know.

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/169979

IslamQA said:
The basic principle is that a female medical student should seek an environment that is not mixed and she should choose a serious academic environment. She should also adhere to Islamic rulings that pertain to her study with regard to looking at or touching ‘awrahs (private parts). It is not permissible for her to do that except within the limits of study and learning. Although looking at and touching ‘awrahs is basically haraam, nowadays it is not possible to learn medicine properly except by means of theoretical and practical studies. In order to fulfil this shar‘i need for female Muslim doctors, it is permissible for a female student to look at and touch the private parts of men and women for the purpose of learning. This ruling applies equally to both male and female students.

Aisya al-Humaira: Excellent points in my opinion.

Sis Aisya said:
But when it comes to dealing business between a woman and a woman, your tone can be a lot gentler. You are able to guide that person if she is in confusion. You may ask her about her problems that seems to be distracting her from doing her work professionally. That way, unintentionally, you will actually create a bond with the women thus it'll make the relationship fulfilling when working in a healthy environment. That's why I have always prefer to work among women only; you can just be yourself, ask silly questions, laugh together. . something that you cannot do in a mixed environment. You keep the ha'ya [bashfulness] high in its place when you are dealing with the opposite gender. Not that we are being a hypocrite by doing this, but its all about keeping our modesty and imaan at its right time and place.
True, true.

:salam2:
some days ago I rea a hadith about the signs of the Qiyyama,and there was that about the "equalness"bbetween man and woman,where the woman will have the same charge of work as men and where she will be called to follow he same career of him(correct me if I'm wrong).
I suppose to be a good housewife,I've never worked in a workplace in my life,'cause of my awckwardness/shyness,and I feel really happy.my husband says:<I don't want you to work under the feet of anybody,I'll take care of you and you'll take care of me>
what's better that that?:):wasalam:
BarakAllaahu feeki.

Muslim women may be working out of compulsion, or simply out of choice, either way she needs these reminders, rules and guidelines.

Islaam says conduct ourselves with modesty, but specific work places and contexts, we need to be able to apply it.

In fact even if you go to the local shops and interact on that level, some of these rules could do with being well embedded.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Asslamu'alaykum,

Thread bump.

I now work in a Muslim environment, 99.9% female ..there is never more than 1 or 2 males on the entire premises - no freemixing or danger of, I have never felt so blessed alhamdulillaah.

Any sisters who are still in less than ideal situations in this regard, stick it out, don't lose hope and keep positive!
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
It is also important to remember how you carry yourself. I've see many hijabis (or non hjiabis) get all too friendly with their co-workers. Many probably believe that it's ok to be relaxed with a kuffar guy since it won't get any where. I was reading on islamqa i think, this incident of one hijabi being all cozy and friendly with a male co-worker. So in one incident the co-worker pulled her hiajb off exclaiming "ah! i see your hair", although he did it in jest and playing around but she was in shock and to the restroom and was crying there. You have no one to blame but yourself when you become too friendly with the opposite gender.
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Wa`alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Just curious Sister Al-Fajr. Is it a private all women hospital?
 
Top