Advice on Photography

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Apologies, I just re-read your posts again. You mentioned:

As any other subject of Islam, we can look into the textual evidences by reading books on the subject, watch lectures or we can consult a reliable student of knowledge or sheikh to explain to us the stance of the Ulema and their evidences. Here is the other video:

Do you actually believe that a layman who doesn't know arabic can understand the textual evidences by listening to lectures or reading books? Especially on issues where the scholars disagreed and there is valid khilaaf...
 

*pink niqaabi*

Junior Member
Well i believe we can get a relatively decent understanding of fiqh from books (even if they are in English), yes. There are actually big books available which contain all the 4 imam's stances so its easy to compare what the agreements and disagreements are, and these books don't just simply contain the opinion, they will show the evidences the imams' used to arrive at their conclusion.
And im only quoting what Abu Mussab has said, these are not my own words. I may only understand very basic Arabic but everyone has to learn islam and has to start somewhere.
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Well i believe we can get a relatively decent understanding of fiqh from books (even if they are in English), yes. There are actually big books available which contain all the 4 imam's stances so its easy to compare what the agreements and disagreements are, and these books don't just simply contain the opinion, they will show the evidences the imams' used to arrive at their conclusion.
And im only quoting what Abu Mussab has said, these are not my own words. I may only understand very basic Arabic but everyone has to learn islam and has to start somewhere.

Firstly, I would like to point out that brother Abu Mus`ab is an excellent da`ee but also a student of knowledge in his intial stages. Scholars say otherwise. This is why the kibaar al-`Ulemaa when they advise students of knowledge (not laymen) to stick to one view or one shaykh and study according to that view/madh-hab untill they have mastered fiqh at a high level. Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Mukhtaar al-Shinqeeti mentioned that he knew of a person who studied for over 10 years and he advised him 10 years ago to stick to one madh-hab or one view and the student of knowledge did not take his advice. 10 years later, he came back to the shaykh complaining that he has difficulties in understanding and regretted that he did not take his advice on board. If that is the advice for students of knowledge, what about laymen?

Secondly, it is not possible for a layman to properly understand one view let alone all the four views of the A'immah by reading books in english... the best is him having an IDEA about that view, that's about it. Comparitive fiqh requires studying Mustalah and Usool al-Fiqh at a very high level which means mastering balaaghah, Nahw, Sarf, Mantiq etc. at an exceptionally strong level. It is a problem amongst many 'Salafi' brothers and sisters who have the mentality that they have the ability to look into all the different views of the scholars in ENGLISH! Even if a person who knows Arabic was to look into comparitive fiqh books in Arabic, a person would not be able to understand unless he has mastered Usool al-Fiqh, Mustalah etc. at a very high level.

With that being said, it is all well and good for a person to blindly follow a scholar in his ijtihaad. But for a layman to push that opinion on another layman who follows another scholar's ijtihaad is not right- unless the layman is following a view that goes against the Ijmaa` or he is following some baatil view that falls out of the circle of valid ijtihaad.
 

muharram23

New Member
Staff member
Salamu alaykum

What can be understood from the fataws is that everyone agrees that merely taking pics and photographs for fun without legit reason is not allowed and should b stayed away from. The issue and differences rise about if that falls under the understanding of those who make images who were described by resulullah :saw: as worst of people and who would b punished severely on day of of judgement.

No doubt that it is among the doubtful matters. All u agree that one should stay away from. Who here can read through the ahadith and still have firm believe that taking pics for fun is permissible. No one takes pics of living thins merely cause its important. Those cases r rare among the layman.

From the thread I don't see anyone pushing any opinion on anyone else. When we go for fataws, those are our greatest scholars an among them is shaykh al Albania rahimehlah. So I don c a reason that posting a fatwa in this case from our noble ulemaa againin is forcing a particular opinion.

If one reads through the fatawas an there is proof from Quran and sunnah we should stick to that which makes more sense. Since it is a fiqhi issue and there is one group of scholars who permit while other don't, we should stick to the one that doesn't permit. In this case, we preserve our honor and religion for leaving the doubtful. Definitely, both sides can't b correct.

I feal that we are debating on something that we all agree on same thing. Its going in loops.

May Allah give us understanding on religion.

Good topic mashallah

Wasalam
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Salamu alaykum

What can be understood from the fataws is that everyone agrees that merely taking pics and photographs for fun without legit reason is not allowed and should b stayed away from. The issue and differences rise about if that falls under the understanding of those who make images who were described by resulullah :saw: as worst of people and who would b punished severely on day of of judgement.

No doubt that it is among the doubtful matters. All u agree that one should stay away from.

The bolded part is not really precise. What I said is that everyone "here" agrees that it might be better to avoid it, but it does not necessarily amount to Haraam- according to the other view.

Although shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen did say it is from doubtful matters, but not all the scholars agreed with him. There are still other schoalrs who believe in the permissibility of taking photos and do not mention that it is "doubtful".

From the thread I don't see anyone pushing any opinion on anyone else. When we go for fataws, those are our greatest scholars an among them is shaykh al Albania rahimehlah. So I don c a reason that posting a fatwa in this case from our noble ulemaa againin is forcing a particular opinion.

I did not say that anyone is pushing any opinion on anyone else. As sister al-Fajr and I mentioned previously, it is not a problem to hold the view it is haraam... but it is a different issue when you push it on other people who hold another view. I only mentioned, before it happens, that we shouldn't push it on other people who hold an opposing view to us.

And I agree with you that no doubt, shaykh al-Albaaene is a scholar etc. but he is not a hujjah nor is anyone else. He did his ijtihaad, and laymen are allowed to follow it... and the same applies to Shaykh ibn `Uthaymeen. Although, I have to say that when it comes to fiqh I personally prefer Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen over shaykh al-Albaanee because he was a well-grounded Faqeeh with a deep insight.

If one reads through the fatawas an there is proof from Quran and sunnah we should stick to that which makes more sense. Since it is a fiqhi issue and there is one group of scholars who permit while other don't, we should stick to the one that doesn't permit. In this case, we preserve our honor and religion for leaving the doubtful. Definitely, both sides can't b correct.

Scholars who hold opposing views base their proof on Qur'aan and sunnah as well, so it does make sense for laymen to hold an opposing view- especially the ijtihaad of a scholar is permissible in that area. I, personally, agree we should try and avoid it... but I cannot force this on someone who strongly holds onto shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen's fatwa or other scholars' fataawa, nor can I accuse him of following his desires.

May Allah give us understanding on religion.

Good topic mashallah

Aameen
 

helpinghumanity

Junior Member
wa alaykum salam warahmatullah wabarakatuh

Ibn Uthaymeen believed photos of human beings to be haram and in other cases permissible, but he believed videos to be permissible. But what kind of images are you talking about?

This video is worth watching for the subject being discussed. I was going to type my response but somehow I watched this video. It summarized the subject pretty clearly therefore I decided to hold back.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UledDhREGx0[/ame]
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Ok in these 2 videos i've posted Abu Mussab reads this out loud from Uthaymeen's fatwa, and the other point about reading the textual evidences is also explained by Abu Mussab in one of the videos. As any other subject of Islam, we can look into the textual evidences by reading books on the subject, watch lectures or we can consult a reliable student of knowledge or sheikh to explain to us the stance of the Ulema and their evidences. Here is the other video:

Nowadays there's also many books out that explain in particular the 4 Imams' stances on Islamic issues also like the Muwatta of Imam Malik, Al-Umda fi l-fiqh of Imam Ahmad, a bit on Imam Sha'afi and plenty on Hanafi fiqh all available in English maasha'allah

Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baraakaatuh,

I read something related to reading books for understanding issues and stances of Imaams on these issues without a teacher. I thought I'd share for everyone's benefit.

It's not related to Picture taking and I'm not debating *Smile*, just sharing something I think you'll like.
_______________________________________________________________________

Posted by Brother al-boriqee on multaqa:

The way I see it is as follows

1. review what Shaykh Fawzan says in the link provided by Bilal. There is an Ijmaa on everything Fawzaan said.

2. secondly, books and now audio lectures/explanations are even more immensely beneficial than books and thus we don't simply erase our data and burn our libraries.

3. The basis for books and Islamic media content is for "m'arifa" i.e. cognizance only. One shaykh told me that a shaykh told him that "whoever does not recognize the difference between m'arifa and 'ilm, is not someone who is grounded in knowledge"
Thus books, lectures, or any sort of Islamic media is here for us to simply "brief" ourselves with a "cursory" view of basic Islamic knowledge, it is not primary Islamic knowledge, and this is the essence and spirit of what Fawzaan is talking about because when one considers what they gained from books to be primary knowledge, then this is a false call.

4. Language:. If the language of these books and materials are not Arabic, then the extent of their aim is drastically reduced and thus further increases the intellectual distance between the seeker and the people of knowledge.

Not only language, but even levels of Arabic knowledge. The arabic student who is studying will not grasp the full extent of the message as the arabic student who has mastered the Qur'an by heart. Likewise, both of these will not grasp the full extent of the message in comparison to someone who not only knows Arabic and knows the Qur'an, but has mastered the 13 sciences of arabic language which are for example

1) The first is الصَّرْف i.e Morphology

2) Next is النَّحْو or grammer, and the main subject of nahw is الإعْراب

3) Next is الرَّسْم أو الإمْلاء i.e the skill of penmanship and dictation

4) Next is المَعاني the science of meaning

5) Next is البَيلن or commonly known as Ilmul-Bayaan or the art of uttering speech

6) Next is البَديع or the art of beautification of speech

7) Metrics or Prosody العَروض

8) Rhyme القَوافي

9) Writing Poetry قَرْضُ الشِّعْر

10) Composition الإنْشاء

11) Public Speech and Oration الخَطابَة

12) Literary History تاريخُ اللأَدَب

13) Core of the Arabic Language مَتْن اللُّغَة (deals with words, foundations, dictionaries, and lexicons)
(Note: ٍSome scholars group البَديع و البَيان و المَعاني under the Science of Arabic Rhetoric عِلْمُ الْبَلاغَة )

so a student who has acquired these aspects of Arabic will go that much farther in his studies and will always be of a higher caliber than those who have not reached to gain these subjects in their understanding of Arabic language.

5. The most common view among the scholars (with of course slight modifications between each scholar) is that one will be able to read books on their own and will be able to grab the pearls without mistakes after he has
a. gained knowledge of the sciences of arabic (mentioned above)
b. has learned the Qur'an and a good portion of hadeeth literature
c. basic and intermediate levels of fiqh
d. has gone through same basic usoolul-hadeeth
e. basic tafseer and its usool
f. has gone through a noted text on usoolul-fiqh
g. has gone through some study on tassawuf (or tazkiyyah, raqaa'iq, or whatever term one prefers to use, and I mean by this sunnism, not what we know of from sufis)
Thus, the recipe above stands for a strong student of knowledge by which he can read tafseer books on his own, make tahqiq of source references on his own, and possibly grant a correct ruling on those who require a ruling on something or at least be able to point the worshiper in the right direction.

Of course ALL of the above will come after going through a basic text or two of knowing how to be a taalibul-ilm. Thus the student might learn al-Faqih wal-Mutafaqih or Adab ar-Rawi, or one of the most famous classical books on the topic, Ibnul-Jama'ah's Tadhkaraat as-Sam'i wal-Mutakallim Fi Adabul-Alim wal-Muta' Allim
i.e. "The memoir of the listener and the speaker in the training of teacher and student"

For westerners like me and others here, We need a triple shot (or dose) of this subject before we even think about approaching any other subject in Islam. So while the average Muslim in various countries may spend a couple of months on this subject alone, Americans will have to stick to this subject for at the very least 1 year, preferably 2, and sometimes 3 years before moving on, depending on how much american stubborness is inherent in the person's character.

6. Lastly, considering your case, like in most countries of darul-kufr, where the influence of shiyookh is lacking exponentially, then the reliance of books and media content on Islamic topics has greater value to us by default, due to the nature of our abode. Many students of knowledge and ulema who are overseas and who obligate the following of scholars do not really have a grasp of this plain political fact, especially considering that they might have like 4 shaykhs to go to on their way to the local masjid which is probably 3 blocks down the street. In my own personal view, I consider that we all need to get the hell out of dodge and leave for the land of the Muslims since it is mandatory in my view, but we all know that millions of muslims will not make mass hijrah because of my viewpoint. Likewise Islam is obligatory on them by their Lord regardless of the presence of scholars or not, which is something that people overseas as well sometimes fail to factor in.

Based on the overall situation, the people here in the west are pretty much cornered to one position. That is, if there are no teachers in your direct area, then you must acquiant yourself (m'arifa) with what you can of books and islamic media content and try to establish some form of contact, link, or relationship with scholars who are upon the salafi manhaj, wherever they may be.
This is so that you can "CONFIRM" the information you have received from these sources and whether or not he can inform you on those issues you were correct in deducing from them, what needs revision, and what is flatly incorrect.

I could be wrong, however in my view, this seems to be not only the most viable, but really the only route that a Muslim who actually cares for their deen can actually learn the basics of their deen IF they are unable to study with teachers or scholars. If they can, then it is best to study directly from them. And what really makes it binding is that Allah is holding the implementation of Islam mandatory on all people who accept Islam, regardless if there are scholars who can excel them in their Islam or not.

Now, of course it can be said that one is not held accountable for what they do not know. But then again, we get back to the base fact that we ARE accountable for seeking knowledge that is directly mandatory upon us to know.

asalamu alaykum

Source

BaraakAllaahu feeki for the thread, sister.
 
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