Ether?

lightofnur

Junior Member
Assalammualaikum all.

I was wondering whether ether is allowed to be used in soaps? Is ether permissible in Islam, or is it categorized along the likes of ethanol, ethyl alcohol, etc.? Do they belong in the same category?

I'm asking this because I did a brilliant thing and bought a hand wash liquid soap without lookng at the back. I saw the ingredient "LAURYL ETHER SULFATE" there. I don't want to chuck off my hand wash liquid soap without finding out whether it's OK to be used or not. Please answer asap. May Allah Bless you all. :)
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Assalammualaikum all.

I was wondering whether ether is allowed to be used in soaps? Is ether permissible in Islam, or is it categorized along the likes of ethanol, ethyl alcohol, etc.? Do they belong in the same category?

I'm asking this because I did a brilliant thing and bought a hand wash liquid soap without lookng at the back. I saw the ingredient "LAURYL ETHER SULFATE" there. I don't want to chuck off my hand wash liquid soap without finding out whether it's OK to be used or not. Please answer asap. May Allah Bless you all. :)

It's simply a functional group in organic chemistry, it is not alcohol if that is what you are asking.
 

OsMaN_93

Here to help
salam alikom brother,

well, for starters you are not eating the soap, so why do you care?
As mentioned above, it's not an alcohol, so it's halal.

Next time just ask yourself, if I drank/ate large quantities of this [object in question] will I get intoxicated? If the answer is yes then avoid it, if the answer is no then go ahead and put [the object in question] to use. Take vinegar for example, you can never get intoxicated on that so it's halal.

The Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whatever makes one drunk in large amounts, a little of it is haraam" (Reported by the four muhadditheen and others; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5530).
 

Noor El-Huda

Junior Member
so, wine vinegar or spirit vinegar which is a white colour is it ok? This is used in a lot of salad creams/dressings. I avoid it because of the name, but is it the same thing as the brown malt vinegar?
 

lightofnur

Junior Member
Wa'alaikumussalam everyone.

salam alikom brother,

well, for starters you are not eating the soap, so why do you care?
As mentioned above, it's not an alcohol, so it's halal.

Next time just ask yourself, if I drank/ate large quantities of this [object in question] will I get intoxicated? If the answer is yes then avoid it, if the answer is no then go ahead and put [the object in question] to use. Take vinegar for example, you can never get intoxicated on that so it's halal.

The Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whatever makes one drunk in large amounts, a little of it is haraam" (Reported by the four muhadditheen and others; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5530).

Haha, first off, I'm a sister. Innocent mistake on your behalf, that's OK.
In response to your question, it is a worriable situation, seeing that while you do not consume it, it does enter your body through lesser means (absorption upon application or something like that), and to be safer, it's better to take up an alternative instead.

I extracted the below from here (just a note: not from any particular madhab, I just follow the strongest opinion):

http://www.ummahnews.co.uk/article.php?id=86

"Ethyl Alcohol is absorbed through the skin. It then passes through the flesh into the blood vessels and finally mixes with the blood and circulates throughout the body. Once in the blood it is as good as if one has ingested through the mouth. As a small quantity of any intoxicant is haram therefore, as mentioned earlier, all liquid cosmetic products containing Ethyl Alcohol are prohibited. Other names given to synthetic Ethyl Alcohol are, Ethanol, Methylated Spirits (contains 5 percent Methyl Alcohol and 95 percent Ethyl Alcohol). Products containing these ingredients therefore will also be prohibited."

Secondly, I've limited knowledge of further chemistry. So whenever I see any ethyl/ethanol/ester,etc. I'm automatically wary, even if some alcohols are namesake and are not intoxicating, etc. etc.

Lastly, I can't imagine drinking lauryl ether sulfate and wondering if its intoxicating. :D I'm sorry, that was a joke. Sorry, I only meant that I don't even know the basic chemistry behind it or what it is, therefore I can't imagine, nor do I want to rely on instincts, see ... I'd like someone to explain that bit.


so, wine vinegar or spirit vinegar which is a white colour is it ok? This is used in a lot of salad creams/dressings. I avoid it because of the name, but is it the same thing as the brown malt vinegar?

I'm not sure about this. You can try reseatching at the halal listing websites; the internet is loaded with creditable ones. :)

To add to that, don't know whether this answers your question; its from the above link:

Food Alcohol

However food containing this ingredient will not be permissible to consume whether it intoxicates or not, providing Halaal and pure food is freely available. If Halaal food is not freely available and this food containing alcohol, as one of its ingredient in some form or other, is the only food available and it is extremely difficult to abstain therefrom. Then in such circumstances both, Imaam Abu Hanifa and Imaam Abu Yusuf allow the consumption of such food providing it does not intoxicate. It should be remembered that this second type of alcohol if used as an ingredient in food and medicine is not permissible. The ruling is on the Fatwah of Imaam Muhammad but because of [Umoom Balwa, public predicament it] will be allowed following the ruling of the Shaikhain, Imaam Abu Hanifa and Imaam Abu Yusuf.

"Another solution to the problem can be to inquire from a specialist in the field of medicine and nutrition when alcohol, used in this manner, remains in its original state in the final product or undergoes significant chemical changes causing it to lose its original properties. If it is transformed after the process not remaining as alcohol then all the Imaams agree to it’s usage and consumption, citing the case where wine turns into vinegar losing all its former properties thus making it permissible for Muslims because of the change to the original properties of wine."
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
There is some need of teaching organic chemistry I think. The term "ether, ethyl, and the such simply means two carbons with hydrogens attached. If it has an -ol ending such as ethanol, then that is called an alcohol. This is not to be confused with intoxicating liquids such as ethanol, not all alcohol can cause intoxication.

Also, alcohol cannot absorb into the body through the skin and get to the bloodstream, simply not possible. We have been forbidden from imbibing specific things that were fermented that can intoxicate. I don't understand why people try to apply this to skin treatments, soaps and shampoos. The fact is there is no forbidden script against it for topical use.
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
Also, alcohol cannot absorb into the body through the skin and get to the bloodstream, simply not possible. We have been forbidden from imbibing specific things that were fermented that can intoxicate. I don't understand why people try to apply this to skin treatments, soaps and shampoos. The fact is there is no forbidden script against it for topical use.

Once a woman tried to convince me not to use hand sanitizer because it would go through my skin and go into my blood stream. She was like "Where does it go? Into the blood stream"

I was like......no. :girl3:
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
Once a woman tried to convince me not to use hand sanitizer because it would go through my skin and go into my blood stream. She was like "Where does it go? Into the blood stream"

I was like......no. :girl3:

Exactly. I am sometimes worried when I see fatwas issued with incorrect scientific "facts." I really wish some of these scholars would consult with chemist/biologists/doctors before making rulings which deal with these specific fields. I once read a fatwa hat made my jaw drop because it had potential to do great harm and showed a shocking lack of female anatomical knowledge.

Alcohol does not absorb through the skin, no matter it's chemical structure.
 

lightofnur

Junior Member
There is some need of teaching organic chemistry I think. The term "ether, ethyl, and the such simply means two carbons with hydrogens attached. If it has an -ol ending such as ethanol, then that is called an alcohol. This is not to be confused with intoxicating liquids such as ethanol, not all alcohol can cause intoxication.

Also, alcohol cannot absorb into the body through the skin and get to the bloodstream, simply not possible. We have been forbidden from imbibing specific things that were fermented that can intoxicate. I don't understand why people try to apply this to skin treatments, soaps and shampoos. The fact is there is no forbidden script against it for topical use.

Sis, forgive me for my lack of knowledge in this field ... but I do think that some fatwas have some merit when they back them up with scientific facts. But I don't deny that there are fatwas that give unreliable answers because their scientific facts are faulty.

I researched a bit about whether alcohol (or more specifically ethanol and the like) can be absorbed through the body.

Here is one link saying:

"Absorption of ethyl alcohol into the blood can occur through the skin and via the lungs, though the major route of taking ethyl alcohol into the body is by drinking alcoholic beverages"

http://chemcases.com/alcohol/alc-04.htm

A number of other links agree. Now, I don't know whether most of them were referring to ethyl alcohol/ethanol/etc. or alcohols in general. I do know that aside from ethyl alcohol/ethanol/etc. topical alcohols (some of them) are halal to use because of the chemistry behind them (see the link in my older post).

Lastly, if you don't mind me narrowing this ... let's just hypothetically accept that the above alcohols are not permissible. So is lauryl ether sulfate, chemistry and all included, halal to use, or would it come under the rulings of the fatwas about the impermissibility of the certain alcohols?
 

ShyHijabi

Junior Member
:salam2:

Laurel ether sulfate is not an alcohol. If it were it would have an -ol ending such as ethanOL. So the fatwas would not apply at all. Let me compare it to a plant....its like saying (fill in the blank) plants are haraam. Now someone comes along and says, "The leaves of these particular plants are haraam as these plants have been deemed haram." Then someone decides to focus on the words "leaves" and decides all plants with leaves are haraam because of a specific part of a fatwa said something about leaves being haraam. (they either ignore the specifics of the plant or simply are unaware of the specifics of the fatwa)

So we can't say all alcohols are haraam or even the application of topical alcohol is haraam. I read the article and I would bet the baby absorbed ethyl alcohol through his umbilical stump as it has direct vessel access. Absorbing alcohol through the lungs is a given because there are direct vessels there as well. The amount of alcohol that penetrates a few layers of dermis cannot ever intoxicate. I use alcohol daily in the hospital when drawing blood, giving injections, etc., and it comes in contact with me multiple times. I also use the alcohol based hand sanitizer between every patient as it is hospital policy and it has zero effect on me. If I did not use this sanitizer I would be putting my patients at risk for illness and/or death.
 

lightofnur

Junior Member
:salam2:

Laurel ether sulfate is not an alcohol. If it were it would have an -ol ending such as ethanOL. So the fatwas would not apply at all. Let me compare it to a plant....its like saying (fill in the blank) plants are haraam. Now someone comes along and says, "The leaves of these particular plants are haraam as these plants have been deemed haram." Then someone decides to focus on the words "leaves" and decides all plants with leaves are haraam because of a specific part of a fatwa said something about leaves being haraam. (they either ignore the specifics of the plant or simply are unaware of the specifics of the fatwa)

So we can't say all alcohols are haraam or even the application of topical alcohol is haraam. I read the article and I would bet the baby absorbed ethyl alcohol through his umbilical stump as it has direct vessel access. Absorbing alcohol through the lungs is a given because there are direct vessels there as well. The amount of alcohol that penetrates a few layers of dermis cannot ever intoxicate. I use alcohol daily in the hospital when drawing blood, giving injections, etc., and it comes in contact with me multiple times. I also use the alcohol based hand sanitizer between every patient as it is hospital policy and it has zero effect on me. If I did not use this sanitizer I would be putting my patients at risk for illness and/or death.

Wa'alaikumussalam. Sis, I'm so sorry for the extremely! late reply. But your answer on laurel ether sulfate was very comprehensive, so I thank you for that.

However, while I agree that not all alcohols are haram ... there is still a matter of difference between the scholars. It's honestly so confusing, but the general opinion is that items that contain alcohol should be avoided wherever possible. Though it's true that there exists permissible alcohols. The majority of views seems to be against at least, these two:

a) ethyl alchohol/ethanol/"Alcohol" as written blatantly behind some bottles, but could actually mean "Isopropyl Alcohol, Ethanol & another type of alcohol which I've forgotten, but is allowed; same goes to Isopropyl Alcohol, I think.
b)denatured alcohol/alcohol denat

Since you work in a hospital, sis, it's an unavoidable situation; so in the current situation, what you are doing is considered acceptable because it's generally permissible for "medicinal purposes". However for others who are not in immediate need of it, those 2 alcohols are generally frowned upon, and to me, their argument is somewhat stronger (even in scientific terms). I'll try to find where I saw the argument.

I've got another question though, and I do need an immediate answer if that's possible, from anyone knowing anything on this, please.

Liquid floor cleaners use solvents, and most of the time, "Alcohol" is used as an antibacterial agent and/or solvent for the floor cleaners. When they say "Alcohol", it could mean any of the three alcohols mentioned in a). So now I'm in doubt, because many liquid floor cleaners don't display their ingredients/materials on the bottle. So how do we know what alcohol is being used, and let's say if the impermissible alcohol is indeed inside the bottle, what do we do? "Alcohol" is a common solvent in liquid floor cleaners. Wouldn't it get stuck to the soles of our feet while cleaning, and some undried liquid residues on the floor (especially where we pray)?

Please give a quick answer. May Allah Bless everyone who took their time to read this.
 
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