saudi women at Olympics

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strive-may-i

Junior Member
.........I think this passage "Do you know the one who denies the (Day of) Judgment? It is he who pushes the orphan away, and urges not to feed the needy. Woe, then unto those praying ones, who are heedless of their prayers, who want to be seen and praised, and refuse (to give) even little things in charity (al-Ma’un 107: 1-7)." is not true.
I think, its about those who pray ( but are heedless), but do no acts of charity. Allah goes on to say woe to such people.


I know many people who do not believe in the day of judgement who are charitable and who give of their time to help others.
Yes. If not for the compassion component among living beings, the world would long be dead. The compassion is also out of creators bounty called Mercy. You might not agree to it, but thats the viewpoint of all who believe in creator.
Here Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said, "Allah has divided mercy into one hundred parts; and He retained with Him ninety-nine parts, and sent down to earth one part. Through this one part creatures deal with one another with compassion, so much so that an animal lifts its hoof over its young lest it should hurt it".[Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

I try to be respectful to people, but I acknowledge that when people are rude to me I can be rude back. This is a fault which I will work on.
Good you know where you have to work on. Same here, I have my own bucketlist to work on. May each of us reach our goals... Ameen.

Once again a request, how about starting your own thread? There are many who prioritize their time, and choose which threads to participate, based on thread title. Again the choice is yours...
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
You are so condescending. "learn, little boy, learn"? Is being smug and condescending part of being a good Muslim?
You are not sorry and this is the last time I respond to you.

Only thing I wait from you Townie, that one day you will understand apology us sisters in general. Maybe you one day understand how you have insulted us.

May Allah teachs you for this.
 

Townie

Junior Member
Everything with a beginning has a cause. Correct. So, where you think it should not lead us to?

No, I think it gets us nowhere. If we agree that nothing can exist without being made, then that rule must apply to everything or it means nothing.
If you state that something does exist without being made, i.e. God, then why should other things not exist without being made?
To quote Bertrand Russell, ""If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, 'How about the tortoise?' the Indian said, 'Suppose we change the subject.'"
 

uniqueskates

Rabbe Zidni Illma
No, I think it gets us nowhere. If we agree that nothing can exist without being made, then that rule must apply to everything or it means nothing.
If you state that something does exist without being made, i.e. God, then why should other things not exist without being made?
To quote Bertrand Russell, ""If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, 'How about the tortoise?' the Indian said, 'Suppose we change the subject.'"


Greetings brother Townie,

Well, frankly i came to this thread to see about Saudi women in Olympics but seems like topic has gone else where.. WHOA!! I do respect your views and you do speak logic. This question arouse in my mind too. When i was i an agnostic. :) But to the best i can answer with whatever knowledge i have, the by default the definition of God is the One who is The Creator and has Created Everything in the world. Your question is pretty logically brother. But you got to believe that HE is uncreated, the moment you say even God is created, then surely he can't be God., it wouldn't make sense to call a created object as God, ll it? Hope i am making sense.. Pheww.. English is bad these days!!

And came across one of the hadiths sometime back,
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts."
Sahih Bukhari 4:54:496

Hope it answers a bit brother Townie, :)


And now coming back to the original Saudi Women At Olympics thing,
To my brothers and sisters, i do understand that women need to be modest and cover themselves, playing games in front of non-mehram and everything. But in this present generation, do you think is it possible? I mean, separate places for women competitions where only women are allowed?? i "personally" believe its not possible, anyways lets "assume" that it is not possible, then should women stop participating in sports itself?

Just wanted to know your views, no intention of hurting anyone..
Peace :)
Allah Hafiz :)
 

Ayanle

Junior Member
No, I think it gets us nowhere. If we agree that nothing can exist without being made, then that rule must apply to everything or it means nothing.
If you state that something does exist without being made, i.e. God, then why should other things not exist without being made?
To quote Bertrand Russell, ""If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, 'How about the tortoise?' the Indian said, 'Suppose we change the subject.'"
came late to this thread, what is your question? who created god?
 

Townie

Junior Member
came late to this thread, what is your question? who created god?

No, this was a reply to another point, which was a reply to another point etc. etc.
I agree that we are way off topic, but to sum up what I think - if someone wants to compete in the Olympics they should be free to do so, no matter where they live. We are not all blessed with revelations or spiritual insights, and some of our brothers and sisters will only reach their full potential if they are allowed to compete in sports in which they naturally excel.
So why should we try to stop them? And why should we give them strange clothes to wear which hamper their chances of being successful?
It is true that I am not a Muslim. But if I were I hope I would celebrate the bodies that Allah has given us, rather than hiding them away, just as I would refrain from mutilating babies because it was written in a book that I should do so...
 

Ayanle

Junior Member
No, this was a reply to another point, which was a reply to another point etc. etc.
I agree that we are way off topic, but to sum up what I think - if someone wants to compete in the Olympics they should be free to do so, no matter where they live. We are not all blessed with revelations or spiritual insights, and some of our brothers and sisters will only reach their full potential if they are allowed to compete in sports in which they naturally excel.
So why should we try to stop them? And why should we give them strange clothes to wear which hamper their chances of being successful?
It is true that I am not a Muslim. But if I were I hope I would celebrate the bodies that Allah has given us, rather than hiding them away, just as I would refrain from mutilating babies because it was written in a book that I should do so...
what is so strange about the clothing?
i agree that it would be wonderful celebrate the bodies that god has given you provided you do not transgress the limits ordained, simple really
anyway, you don't mind me asking what your viewpoint on life is? whether you are religious or not
 

Townie

Junior Member
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts."
Sahih Bukhari 4:54:496
It's not uncommon for a religion, which relies on faith, to have a belief such as this. To warn against the obvious question doesn't provide an adequate answer.
In effect it is saying, "when someone asks a question which calls into doubt all that you believe, ignore it and think of something else."
Doesn't seem to me to be a good basis for faith.
 

Ayanle

Junior Member
It's not uncommon for a religion, which relies on faith, to have a belief such as this. To warn against the obvious question doesn't provide an adequate answer.
In effect it is saying, "when someone asks a question which calls into doubt all that you believe, ignore it and think of something else."
Doesn't seem to me to be a good basis for faith.

i take it you are an athiest?
 

Townie

Junior Member
what is so strange about the clothing?
i agree that it would be wonderful celebrate the bodies that god has given you provided you do not transgress the limits ordained, simple really
anyway, you don't mind me asking what your viewpoint on life is? whether you are religious or not

Of course I don't mind. I came to this site to find out about Islam and the people that follow it. I have been brought up in a family without faith, but I am curious to find out why people choose to have faith.
I know that people who follow religions tend to be happier and I would like to know why.
I have no book to guide me and I wonder whether having such guidance would make my life better or worse.
I have already met some interesting and inspiring people here, but I have also met some ignorant and rude people. Pretty much what I would expect on any site about any subject; so I am beginning to think that calling yourself a Muslim does not make you a better person...
 

Ayanle

Junior Member
Of course I don't mind. I came to this site to find out about Islam and the people that follow it. I have been brought up in a family without faith, but I am curious to find out why people choose to have faith.
I know that people who follow religions tend to be happier and I would like to know why.
I have no book to guide me and I wonder whether having such guidance would make my life better or worse.
I have already met some interesting and inspiring people here, but I have also met some ignorant and rude people. Pretty much what I would expect on any site about any subject; so I am beginning to think that calling yourself a Muslim does not make you a better person...
calling yourself a muslim doesn't make you a better person of course but acting muslim does
the only guidance worth anything is guidance from god if you believe in him as without god man has no purpose. "life is like being thrown into slavery" some clever guy once said
so why do you choose to have no faith?
 

uniqueskates

Rabbe Zidni Illma
It's not uncommon for a religion, which relies on faith, to have a belief such as this. To warn against the obvious question doesn't provide an adequate answer.
In effect it is saying, "when someone asks a question which calls into doubt all that you believe, ignore it and think of something else."
Doesn't seem to me to be a good basis for faith.


I agree, to what you said, it was a point of view from faith - it was to support the statement what i wanted to say, you are knowledgable and pretty much logical MashaAllah but for a person who doesn't understand to ur level how would i explain? anyways, but i guess i also answered from the point of view of logic, in the above, didn't i brother? And mate, the basis of every religion i guess, is to believe and have faith in God, and believe that He created everything.. :)

And calling yourself doesn't make you any better, but following Islam makes you sure better person. :) I can bet on that, cox i have experienced it myself. And i don lie. :)

Peace :)
 

uniqueskates

Rabbe Zidni Illma
what is so strange about the clothing?
i agree that it would be wonderful celebrate the bodies that god has given you provided you do not transgress the limits ordained, simple really

Brother Townie,

As brother Ayanle has said above, its upto the person to transgress the limits. Its simple, and i ll try to put what i understood in simple words brother. God has sent the Quran as guidance to us, and the Sunnah and Sayings of Prophet(SAW) tell us how to lead and be in our life.. It is upto you whether you want to follow it or not, Allah(SWT) gives you soo much freedom (in Quran) saying that there is no compulsion in religion and its completely upon the person to heed to the guidance or not. :)

Peace :)
 

Townie

Junior Member
calling yourself a muslim doesn't make you a better person of course but acting muslim does
the only guidance worth anything is guidance from god if you believe in him as without god man has no purpose. "life is like being thrown into slavery" some clever guy once said
so why do you choose to have no faith?

Do we choose? Having a belief is never a choice, although those who are searching are perhaps more likely to find something.
Most people believe in the things their family and community believe. I made the point earlier that being born into the 1 out of 73 Muslim sects that turns out to be 'right' would give you a distinct advantage over all those who weren't, since you would have to make no effort at all to avoid a spell roasting in the fires of hell. I hope that whoever made that point was wrong, because if believing that was a requirement of being a Muslim I wouldn't choose to join the club.
I expect you believe that Allah is just and merciful. I find it hard to understand why he communicates through illiterate people in languages that most of the world will never understand.
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Of course I don't mind. I came to this site to find out about Islam and the people that follow it. I have been brought up in a family without faith, but I am curious to find out why people choose to have faith.
I know that people who follow religions tend to be happier and I would like to know why.
............

I dont know why all people choose faith, but since i am online i can say why i did.
Because of Quran, Quran and science co-exist perfectly. There is a chapter in Quran called The Bee, just look at the bee how constructs that complex house of hers and how every bee is perfected with a sistem to produce honey...who did this ? who teached her ?
You say what are the signs of Allah, i would ask: what are not ?
From inside you, the cells that makes one organ, the organs that make one system, the systems that make one body, all in order and with a clear design, you breath, you eat, you are programed to sleep and rest..there is no Designer ? And around us, from the rain that gives the food ...and the clouds, to the movments of planets, Sun....there is much to speek about if we look in the right direction...
I hope you reflect on Quran, leaving a little rest to the sects of islam and the bad examples....
Good day
 

Townie

Junior Member
Because of Quran, Quran and science co-exist perfectly. There is a chapter in Quran called The Bee, just look at the bee how constructs that complex house of hers and how every bee is perfected with a sistem to produce honey...who did this ? who teached her ?
You say what are the signs of Allah, i would ask: what are not ?
From inside you, the cells that makes one organ, the organs that make one system, the systems that make one body, all in order and with a clear design, you breath, you eat, you are programed to sleep and rest..there is no Designer ? And around us, from the rain that gives the food ...and the clouds, to the movments of planets, Sun....there is much to speek about if we look in the right direction...
I hope you reflect on Quran, leaving a little rest to the sects of islam and the bad examples....
Good day
If we had a designer I would have expected the design to be better.
Why did he design our eyes to have a blind spot?
Why are we prone to back ache because our spines were originally horizontal and not vertical?
What possible reason was there to give us an appendix?
Why do men die earlier than women?
The bee is perhaps the worst example of good design that you could give. And why would a bee need to be taught? Any slight interest in science would explain exactly why, with no recourse to a 'creator'.
I assumed that people who believed would have a good reason to do so. I am a bit disappointed...
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
If we had a designer I would have expected the design to be better.
Why did he design our eyes to have a blind spot?
Why are we prone to back ache because our spines were originally horizontal and not vertical?
What possible reason was there to give us an appendix?
Why do men die earlier than women?
The bee is perhaps the worst example of good design that you could give. And why would a bee need to be taught? Any slight interest in science would explain exactly why, with no recourse to a 'creator'.
I assumed that people who believed would have a good reason to do so. I am a bit disappointed...

The bee is one of the examples of Quran. Why is the worst ? Science will show you ''how'' not ''why'', science is just observation, is not the answer. Science will tell you the bee has this and this that allowes her to produce honey...and further ? who coordinated all this to happen ?
If we are not perfect is not one argument that we are here with no cause and no consequence.
You really take all around you for granted, not thinking in deep.
It does not matter much.
All the best
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

What we have is a person who wishes to learn about Islam. Good.
We have to be the best of teachers as our Prophet, swas, was our example.

Townie,

I glean that you have spent time thinking. It takes great courage to openly seek faith. The seed that has been planted in your soul is germinating and we need to tend that with kid gloves.
Islam is the most intellectual religion. It is the most rational faith and it is the most spiritual faith. Everything makes sense in it. Everything. I must suggest that it would do you good to read some of the classic scholars. They are so clear with words and the works help us to understand the absolute in Islam.

It is the absolute nature of Islam that differentiates it from other faiths. It is complete. I noted that you grew-up in a household without faith. In a house where the Quran is recited and salah made there is a sense of calm and peace. There is joy. The stressors of the world are silenced. And a universe opens up to you.

The journey is difficult in the beginning. However, the Path is constantly illuminated for you. Constantly.

The why's and wherefore's you are seeking answers to are the wrong questions. How much of the Quran have you read? Start there and then ask questions. If you could ask me one question about Islam what would it be?
 
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