saudi women at Olympics

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strive-may-i

Junior Member
I think the way Muslims live is admirable and I would like to know why.

Jesus was born of a virgin.
Allah can.

The Qu'ran says there is a 'barrier' between salt and fresh water which stops them mixing.
One more reason to believe.

[FONT=me_quran][25:53]وَهُوَ الَّذِي مَرَجَ الْبَحْرَيْنِ هَٰذَا عَذْبٌ فُرَاتٌ وَهَٰذَا مِلْحٌ أُجَاجٌ وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَهُمَا بَرْزَخًا وَحِجْرًا مَّحْجُورًا[/FONT]
Wahuwa allathee maraja albahraynihatha AAathbun furatun wahatha milhunojajun wajaAAala baynahuma barzakhan wahijranmahjoora
And it is He Who has let free the two seas (kinds of water), one palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter, and He has set a barrier and a complete partition between them. [Qur'an 25:53]
 

Townie

Junior Member
Typical. You are not just wrong about Theist, you are wrong about Atheist too!
You are confused by your own words. A belief in creator is theism, and a stance opposite to it, is also a belief, by the very same yardstick. But the plane you are in is still the same. An Atheists, ego prevents him from assigning the word belief, simple. You are the 'i am better than this crowd' and belong to the other crowd talk... but it has no substance to it.
You are incorrect.
Atheism is the absence of belief in a theistic system. There are lots of theistic systems, such as Christianity, Judaism etc. and someone who fails to believe in one of them is an atheist. You are an atheist when it comes to Christianity and Judaism. You can be an atheist and have no belief at all about the supernatural. It is possible to just say "I don't know".

Science discovers what God has created. Its a fact. Nothing more. You just use words to mask it.
And that is your belief. It is not a fact, otherwise you wouldn't need faith. A fact is an objective and verifiable observation, so that rules out the supernatural by definition.
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Alhamdullilah for the fresh water.

The verses at the heart of the controversy are: Qur'an 25:53 and 55:19-20.

Qur'an 25:53 reads: "It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."

Qur'an 55:19-20 reads: "He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together: Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:"

However, any reasonable person knows that if you take a glass of salt water and a glass of fresh water, pour them in a single container, they will mix. So where did people get the idea that salt and fresh water will not mix? Actually, they get it from the Qur'an itself, amazingly enough. But, does the Qur'an actually say that salt water and fresh water will not mix?
The word translated barrier in the Qur'an is, Barzakh. According Mostmerciful.com, Dr. Abdullah Nadwi in his 'Vocabulary Of The Holy Qur'an' defines Barzakh as; "Litt : a thing that (n.) intervenes between any two things". Therefore, Barzakh is commonly translated as barrier: Something that prevents one thing from infringing upon another.
Prof. Ibrahim Khalil, states: "Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet up, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density. For example, Mediterranean Sea water is warm, saline and less dense, compared to Atlantic Ocean water. When Mediterranean Sea water enters the Atlantic, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about one kilometer with its own warm, saline and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them. Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier."

The author fails to mention, however, that the water does eventually comingle; besides, it is cleadr that the Qur'an is talking about fresh and salt water-not salty and less salty seas.

The barzakh occurs also in the evaporation process. According to the USGS: The rain that falls on the land contains some dissolved carbon dioxide from the surrounding air. This causes the rainwater to be slightly acidic due to carbonic acid. The rain physically erodes the rock and the acids chemically break down the rocks and carries salts and minerals along in a dissolved state as ions. The ions in the runoff are carried to the streams and rivers and then to the ocean. Many of the dissolved ions are used by organisms in the ocean and are removed from the water. Others are not used up and are left for long periods of time where their concentrations increase over time.

So when the sun evaporates sea water, the salt is left behind. Fresh water is transported by clouds back over land and decends as rain-replenishing our fresh water rivers and streams and then the whole process begins again.

Had Allah (swt) not put this Barzakh in place, our rivers and streams would now be just as saline as the oceans.


The Qur'an: Yusuf Ali Translation.
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/whyoceansalty.html
 

Townie

Junior Member
Had Allah (swt) not put this Barzakh in place, our rivers and streams would now be just as saline as the oceans.
Or alternatively; if this system had not occurred naturally, there would be no life on earth. Your statement is based on faith not fact.
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
But there is life as we are very real, that is a fact.
And all this proper enviroment for us is to complex to be created out of nothing...or from itself, but if you want to remain in your own universe and not take in consideration all this evidences, it is your life.
I hope the post i made above clarified a little your view on the verse about water, ofcourse we all know salt and fresh water eventually mix, we dont live in a box...and we do belive in Quran, alhamdullilah.
Good day
 

Townie

Junior Member
But there is life as we are very real, that is a fact.
And all this proper enviroment for us is to complex to be created out of nothing...or from itself, but if you want to remain in your own universe and not take in consideration all this evidences, it is your life.
I hope the post i made above clarified a little your view on the verse about water, ofcourse we all know salt and fresh water eventually mix, we dont live in a box...and we do belive in Quran, alhamdullilah.
Good day
The reason this came up was because I said in a previous post that all the holy books contain inconsistencies, including the Qu'ran.
I am delighted that you believe in the Qu'ran; I have seen one and read it so I believe in it too. But I don't believe it is the inerrant word of God anymore than the Bible or the Torah. If it was it would not contain mistakes. And it does...
Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to say - "ok the Qu'ran is not perfect, even though it is close to perfect. Let's take all the good bits that teach us to live life well and in harmony with others, and let's start editing the bits out which are based on outdated knowledge and incorrect beliefs."
As long as you cling to the fantasy that the Qu'ran is inerrant you will be forced to deny evident truths and Islam will be stuck in the middle ages.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
The reason this came up was because I said in a previous post that all the holy books contain inconsistencies, including the Qu'ran.
I am delighted that you believe in the Qu'ran; I have seen one and read it so I believe in it too. But I don't believe it is the inerrant word of God anymore than the Bible or the Torah. If it was it would not contain mistakes. And it does...
Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to say - "ok the Qu'ran is not perfect, even though it is close to perfect. Let's take all the good bits that teach us to live life well and in harmony with others, and let's start editing the bits out which are based on outdated knowledge and incorrect beliefs."
As long as you cling to the fantasy that the Qu'ran is inerrant you will be forced to deny evident truths and Islam will be stuck in the middle ages.

May Allah open your eyes and heart to Islam one day. Now you think you know everything but something you too are looking as you came here. Don´t worry little boy, I too looked Islam 7 years. Maybe your path is as long.
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Is strange that you dont see much of a difference between Bible and Quran.
Yes, noone is stopping you to take bits and to live life well, but what are the incorrect beliefs ?
......
And i am pleased if i can live like in middle ages, this modern times dont impress me much, on the contrary, a consumers world.
Good day
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
In Europe those Middle Ages called as Dark Ages. In Islamic world they were Golden Ages. Most inventions known now created at that time in Islamic World.

:SMILY139:
 

Townie

Junior Member
Is strange that you dont see much of a difference between Bible and Quran.
Yes, noone is stopping you to take bits and to live life well, but what are the incorrect beliefs ?
The virgin birth of Jesus, fresh and salt water don't mix?
And i am pleased if i can live like in middle ages, this modern times dont impress me much, on the contrary, a consumers world.
Good day
But you're happy to use the products of our modern times, like computers and the internet?
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
The virgin birth of Jesus, fresh and salt water don't mix?

But you're happy to use the products of our modern times, like computers and the internet?

I use them. But no, i am not so happy about it.
About salt and fresh water i see you dont understand much from that article.
You see what you want to see maybe because you belive muslims are backward people or your ego does not let you think there is a superior intelligence above us.

You praise scientists that play with DNA but you fail to look more and praise the one that ''created'' DNA, it is real and it is complex, has a design and the smallest gene error produces much damage to the organism, wich we see in the kids with genetic diseases. They are examples of Allah that things can go wrong, yet the majority of us are healthy from this point of view.
I was thinking if we break the ice on you a little will be good, but..
I will not respond in this thread anymore, i see again is useless.
Inshallah life will offer you the answers.
Good day.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
Don´t worry little boy, I too looked Islam 7 years. Maybe your path is as long.

Sister,

why are you responding this way, taunting with "Little boy"?? Has Townie ever called you "little woman" or "silly woman" or something of that nature?

is this the way Muslims behave? That we call people names or that we are condenscending? You may not like what Townie is saying, clearly he is challenging us on every aspect of Islam, but that does not give you the right to call him "little boy". Is that the type of morals that we as muslims have?

I'm sorry if I'm being harsh but I think as Muslims we must demonstrate that we will always treat people with kindness and respect. If someone mistreats us, then we turn the other cheek and we ignore them. But we don't ever call them names or belittle them.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

To Townie,

I apologize on behalf of the members of this forum. They have forgotten that we need to display the best of manners. I might be wrong but I sense that you have a sincere interest in our faith. I know that youth is arrogant.

Love begets Love. It is compassion that melts the heart. It is critical in Islam to always soften the heart. I stopped writing on this forum because many members in their passion forgot basic rules.

As I wrote in an earlier response please forgot what others think and feel. This is about you and your soul. Your journey is interpersonal. We are the souls you meet on your journey. We can rest with you for a minute as pilgrims meeting at an inn. Your journey is yours. There is no need for any emotionalism.

And I beg you to open a thread for brothers to respond with the best of manners.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
You are incorrect.
Atheism is the absence of belief in a theistic system. There are lots of theistic systems, such as Christianity, Judaism etc. and someone who fails to believe in one of them is an atheist. You are an atheist when it comes to Christianity and Judaism.
Fact. Contradictions aplenty. So now everybody is athiest. I was expecting this from you.

Bound by time, Science discovers the observable parts of Gods creation, So thats the fact. And atheists choose to ignore. Example, Russell, and you Townie, which group do you belong to?
 

Townie

Junior Member
Fact. Contradictions aplenty. So now everybody is athiest. I was expecting this from you.

Science discovers what God has created, So thats the fact. And atheists choose to ignore. Example, Russell, and you Townie, which group do you belong to?
I'm more like Harpo Marx, I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.
Like it or not you are an atheist - everyone is. Bertrand Russell just failed to believe in one more God than you do. The truth can be uncomfortable when it doesn't agree with your dogma can't it?
You persist in labelling your belief a fact, but calling it a fact doesn't make it one. If it was a fact it would be objective and verifiable. It is neither, unless of course you would like to prove it?
 
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