POLYGAMY In Islam

[Asrar_25]

Wa aleikum assalam,

Would be a good topic to talk the "post colonial stress syndrome" in many things of societies that have been colonized. But you shouldn't see all people as an "enemies" (I don't remember another word) and use that as a defense or "attack", this is not the "west" versus "east".
I know is not personal. Thank you for your responses. Are we in peace now?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

I am not making this a east west thing. I have never called anyone an enemy. I have simply stated that the repercussions of colonialism leave deep psychological scars. I am reflecting that maybe one of those scars is the fact that Muslims have left the sunna of marriage and adopted a more non-Islamic approach. It maybe a stretch. I think it is worth investigating.

The mere fact that we have sisters who constantly fight the rights of a man to have more than one wife and can offer no answer other than we do not want to share him. I have to scratch my head and think how does one own another human being. A person is not a commodity. A marriage is a partnership. A partnership is not a monopoly.

I was never at war.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

:salam2:

To be a Muslim means to submit to the will of :Allah: in every way and part of submission is to believe that :Allah: has the best of wisdom for His creation because he is the Creator.

Creator knows what is best for the creation.

Polygyny has been prescribed to be permissible by :Allah: and there is no way this injunction is to be temporarily suspended or abrogated until the day of judgement and its equally applicable and permissible in BJP dominated Gujarat to war-torn Somalia to American deep south to Swiss Alps. It is a matter which has been left to the choice of Muslims so they can avail it or not and that's up to them but no Muslim has the right to discuss or cast doubt or place restrictions (ideological or geographical) on a matter which is clearly permissible in Islam.

Questioning or casting doubts on Polygyny is just like casting doubts on any other aspect of Islam i.e. praying, fasting etc.

At some point in our lives we need to think about standing up for our religion no matter how unpalatable some of things may seem to the Non-Muslims.

We are not here to please the Non-Muslims rather, we are here to please :Allah:.

Those who want to practice Polygyny, go ahead!

Those who don't want to practice Polygyny, go ahead!

But the theological underpinnings of the matter are not up for discussion.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

What is needed is the understanding of why it is permissible. We live in an era where so much negative light has been shed that the functional reasons of its permissibility are ignored.

Islam allows discussion. Islam encourages discussion.

Your response of go ahead does not shed light. Islam is not a closed faith.

Believers could gain understanding of how polygamy can unburden society of many evils. Discussion is imperative.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

What is needed is the understanding of why it is permissible. We live in an era where so much negative light has been shed that the functional reasons of its permissibility are ignored.

Islam allows discussion. Islam encourages discussion.

Your response of go ahead does not shed light. Islam is not a closed faith.

Believers could gain understanding of how polygamy can unburden society of many evils. Discussion is imperative.

:salam2: Sister,

Here I am confused and would like the guidance in this matter?

I understand that there are many Muslim Sisters who need to benefit from Islamic companionship and relationship and off course Polygyny is the obvious answer but should a man engage in a relationship for the sake of :Allah: when there is no other reason? That could put the Sister in a worse situation when the man really has nothing in common with her and very few have such strong faith that they can last in a relationship.

I know someone who is being "hounded" by a Sister to be his second wife but the brother is being honest and has been steadfast in refusing saying that he doesn't feel that they have anything in common while others continue to blame him that he can't help the Sister out for the sake of :Allah:.

I can see his point of view. Privately, he has told me that she is good looking, nice, courteous, polite and practicing but different cultures, language barriers and there isn't really anything in common.

They both are very seriously stressed out because she has waived all rights and won't back down and he won't change his mind about it.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

In this case we have to understand that Islam provides solutions. First and foremost, marriage is not a singular decision. It is a community matter. She needs the counsel of her wali. Coercion does not solve problems. You can not force a man into marrying you.

We forget that our imams are the ones we need to seek for such solutions. For a lack of better term pastoral counseling is what is needed. She has to have her wali address her issues to the brother and imam.

The statistics for intercultural marriages are horrific. They fare better if the faith is the same. Faith overcomes many cultural barriers. Once again it is the intention.

Should a man out of Love and Fear of Allah subhana wa taala marry a woman just for that. On a very spiritual level if he feels that this will give him blessings yes. If there is doubt no. There is no compulsion in religion. He must make salat for guidance.

She, too must seek guidance and not make unrealistic demands.

When the subject of marriage is discussed many times people get stupid. That is the reason we have a process in Islam. Let those who have clear heads and knowledge help make those decisions without the emotional baggage.

I pray I have made some sense. I pray Allah subhana wa taala makes the task easy for them.

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

Assalamu`alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I agree the permissibility of polygyny is the solution to many societal problems especially of the unwed, widowed, poor sisters. I also agree with the brother that those who wish to practice it, go ahead and likewise to those who doesn't.

It it not that the Muslims are ignoring the functional reasons but rather they are MISUSING it in most cases (most, not all). Misusing it as in the man falls in love with a beautiful, 20 yrs younger woman and wants her thus he practices polygyny. Of course that is permissible but why didn't he looked for an older, widowed woman who needs a husband?

Yes, we hear and witnessed stories how an extended family who practice polygyny can be happy and supportive to each others and we also know about husbands who don't fulfill his responsibilities to his family justly.

If the man feels he is capable economically, spiritually and physically to have more than 1 wife, then he should. But if the man himself isn't convince to do so yet his wife request him to, will the man be able to carry out his responsibilities justly? I doubt that.

One of TTI brothers should become an Imaam to the community, esp in the West and help solve the problems of "unreachable" Imaam.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

There is no compulsion in religion. And if a brother can marry more than one it would meliorate many a sisters misery.

But, we need to become educated on the sunna of polygamy. We need to understand that it is a blessing for those who can do so.

 

[islamerica]

Assalamu`alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I think there two major obstacles in this. First is that most sisters don't want to "share" and this is more prominent in the younger than older ones. Second is that most men can't afford to run dual families even if they desire to polygyny. Lastly, there's the culture thing. Even if you want it, your cultural parents and relatives will pressure you to not go there. and despite what others may say about ignore them or culture or this or that, we are product of our society and culture and as such most will give into their parent's wishes, especially if the parents get all angry or start emotional blackmail or start taunting them with statements like "where is your islam now?, why do you disobey your parents" etc.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

In this case we have to understand that Islam provides solutions. First and foremost, marriage is not a singular decision. It is a community matter. She needs the counsel of her wali. Coercion does not solve problems. You can not force a man into marrying you.

We forget that our imams are the ones we need to seek for such solutions. For a lack of better term pastoral counseling is what is needed. She has to have her wali address her issues to the brother and imam.

The statistics for intercultural marriages are horrific. They fare better if the faith is the same. Faith overcomes many cultural barriers. Once again it is the intention.

Should a man out of Love and Fear of Allah subhana wa taala marry a woman just for that. On a very spiritual level if he feels that this will give him blessings yes. If there is doubt no. There is no compulsion in religion. He must make salat for guidance.

She, too must seek guidance and not make unrealistic demands.

When the subject of marriage is discussed many times people get stupid. That is the reason we have a process in Islam. Let those who have clear heads and knowledge help make those decisions without the emotional baggage.

I pray I have made some sense. I pray Allah subhana wa taala makes the task easy for them.

Assalamu`alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

I agree the permissibility of polygyny is the solution to many societal problems especially of the unwed, widowed, poor sisters. I also agree with the brother that those who wish to practice it, go ahead and likewise to those who doesn't.

It it not that the Muslims are ignoring the functional reasons but rather they are MISUSING it in most cases (most, not all). Misusing it as in the man falls in love with a beautiful, 20 yrs younger woman and wants her thus he practices polygyny. Of course that is permissible but why didn't he looked for an older, widowed woman who needs a husband?

Yes, we hear and witnessed stories how an extended family who practice polygyny can be happy and supportive to each others and we also know about husbands who don't fulfill his responsibilities to his family justly.

If the man feels he is capable economically, spiritually and physically to have more than 1 wife, then he should. But if the man himself isn't convince to do so yet his wife request him to, will the man be able to carry out his responsibilities justly? I doubt that.

One of TTI brothers should become an Imaam to the community, esp in the West and help solve the problems of "unreachable" Imaam.

:salam2:

Having been an Imam (against my better judgment and forced into it) and some experience in this matter, I disagree in two respects. Firstly, the concept of an Imam is similar to Christian Clergy and Islam has no such thing and secondly, vast majority of Imams neither have good communicative skills nor social skills to understand the complexities of life in the west.

On the issue of polygyny we have two extremes, people on the left who simply abhor it and people on the right who believe it to the solution of all damsels in distress. Reality on the ground is it is abused by most brothers to build unIslamic relationships with younger, prettier Sisters and in my experience there are very few brothers who genuinely take older (and with children) Sisters.

Where older (and with children) Sisters are taken as second wives they often content themselves with their destiny and "live with it"

All in all the reality on the ground isn't as rosy as we may think.

The solution is to educate our Sisters upon the Sunnah because they are the ones who compromise, give their rights away and let brothers get away with sheer murder because they believe their life to stuck in a downward spiral. I can describe incident after incident of speaking to couples where I sit across the table and think "How do you let him get away with this?" Its clear to me that the Sisters are mostly vulnerable and they are simply looking to their "knight in shining Armour"

And the situation with Reverts is even worse when it comes to polygyny with many of them married so many times that its like a revolving door.

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

Wa`alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Brother TTT (I hope you don't mind me using initials), I do believe that an Imaam or the leader at a masjid (either he is the one who leads the prayers/ is a bilaal/ give khutbah at the masjid), I am sure there's more to it than just carrying out the responsibilities in the mosque. The Imaam can be reached to help the Muslims' community. And yes, I have come to know that not many Imaams have good communication nor social skills but who else can the Muslims turn to for help esp in the West? I am referring to help as in our own effort to solve the issues; our ikhtiyaar. Of course seeking help from Allaah is the first and main choice, always.

If in a Muslims country [putting aside the matter of there's no real Muslims country but highly populated Muslims countries], couples with marriage problems will most likely refer to the hakeem in a Sharia`ah court. Similarly in the west, they turn to the Imams at the masjid. So I don't understand why the issue of following the Christians?

The solution is to educate our Sisters upon the Sunnah because they are the ones who compromise, give their rights away and let brothers get away with sheer murder because they believe their life to stuck in a downward spiral. I can describe incident after incident of speaking to couples where I sit across the table and think "How do you let him get away with this?" Its clear to me that the Sisters are mostly vulnerable and they are simply looking to their "knight in shining Armour"

And the situation with Reverts is even worse when it comes to polygyny with many of them married so many times that its like a revolving door.

I'm sorry as I'm having quite a hard time understanding both of your statements; probably due to my lack of proficiency in the language. What sheer murder are you referring to? Letting the husband get away with what? Responsibilities or the fact that he had a second marriage in secret?

For the Sunnah to be uphold and used correctly as it is taught by our Prophet , both men and women need to be educated. So that one party doesn't misuse it while the other doesn't feel like a victim (for the lack of words).

And I must say that for a polygyny to work, a lot of sacrifice is required. Not that a monogamy marriage doesn't but because matters should be discussed on many levels between the husband and the wives (not simultaneously, of course). I know a sister who is the second wife and how she is such a matured, strong woman; teaching many about leading a happy marriage although her husband may not always be at home because he is a pilot. I know for a fact that she is happy. No, wasn't talking about my family, Appa

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

( I would never bring your family into this, sweetie)

Brother,

The mere fact that some imams have inadequate social skills does not take away from them conducting their duties. Even for chaplin jobs the prerequiste is at least 24 hours of counseling coursework.

In Islam every matter is taken to the masjid. If a person has any question take it to the masjid. The Prophet, swas, took the time to answer the simplest of questions.

Now, I am having a very difficult time understanding you. What is this sexist language about damsels in distress. No, how about sisters who wish to live the deen. What is this sacrifice? In tough economic times it is a solution. A man marries two women. One can work and bring in a dual income, the other can do the important task of running the household. The working wife would not be exhausted. Money would be saved from sending children to day care..and I can go on and on.

Brother, you are forgetting that men need to be educated as well as women. No, you are correct most men will not take women with children. I must say however, in the US, the Black brother has more of an open mind. Your experiences must not include them. Thus, the need for more education.

Your use of language has me a little concerned. I fully understand that you want to protect women, however, you are unaware of why some women want to enter such a state. You have not encountered the horror of the single sister who is maintaining her deen, alone. Your words reflect the feminist argument of she will have to sacrifice. That is a simple answer.

No, human nature is simple. I want it all and I want it now. ( Freddy Mercury). It is up to the imams to reminder the congregation of the best of practices to strengthen the community.

I am very glad that you are a member of this forum. I like to ask hard questions. I like to engage in serious discussions. And I do not accept soft answers.

 

[sultanb]

:salam2:
Sorry to interrupt the flow of the conversation, but I am wondering. If our Prophet lived with one wife, then after it lived in polygamy, would the sunnah for polygamy be only later in life? Or maybe a similar progress of life, polygamy after first marriage ends up being a widower (or divorce) then polygamy is sunnah?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

There is no monopoly on the forum.

I have some views but am waiting for some with knowledge to enlighten us. Good thoughts.

( InshaAllah, those who live on the East Coast will not be harmed as the storm approaches.)

 

[strive-may-i]

:salam2:
Sorry to interrupt the flow of the conversation, but I am wondering. If our Prophet lived with one wife, then after it lived in polygamy, would the sunnah for polygamy be only later in life? Or maybe a similar progress of life, polygamy after first marriage ends up being a widower (or divorce) then polygamy is sunnah?

Am sorry to interrupt your thought chain, Doubt or Speculation? Marriage is Sunnah. Get your deen right. Beware of catching a wrong thought train.

 

[sultanb]

Am sorry to interrupt your thought chain, Doubt or Speculation? Marriage is Sunnah. Get your deen right. Beware of catching a wrong thought train.

What are you asking me brother? Am I in doubt about marriage or speculating on its ruling?

I know that marriage is sunnah. I am seeking knowledge. I am making an observation that if the prophet lived in those two stages, monogamy and polygamy, then should it be followed in the way that he practiced it.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

:salam2:

In my mind there is no need for a debate or discussion on the matter because :Allah: and His Rasool have permitted the matter so that's the end of discussion.

What I was trying to point out that there is a lot of abuse of polygyny by brothers in my limited knowledge and experience and Sisters pay the price for the abuse and my intention wasn't to insult or denigrate anyone and if its taken that way I apologize if it came across that way. My personal opinion that a lot of Sisters are being taken advantage of it and there is nothing which I have read here which has made me rethink or change my mind.

Polygyny cuts both ways, it is a wonderful solution to many of our issues but its also open to abuse and I have seen and witnessed the damage when its used against the Sunnah in communities and unfortunately it is abused in the guise of brothers Halal'ising their Haram relationships and extra marital affairs.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

You have not come across in any way other than to discuss a subject that is misunderstood in a mature manner.

Yes, there are many brothers who will legitimize the haraam relationship. However, it takes two to tango. The sisters are willing participants. But, that is not what is being discussed. And if that is the majority of plural marriages we live in dangerous times.

Your experiences have tarnished that which is a blessing. I see now why you have a view of women being dependent and weak.

I am discussing independent women. Women who are successful. Women who wish to live the deen. Women who guard their chastity. Equally, brother you have not changed my mind by introducing into the conversation men who marry their mistress.

As a matter of fact men need variety. I am a woman and I know that.

 

[tic_tac_toe]

Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

You have not come across in any way other than to discuss a subject that is misunderstood in a mature manner.

Yes, there are many brothers who will legitimize the haraam relationship. However, it takes two to tango. The sisters are willing participants. But, that is not what is being discussed. And if that is the majority of plural marriages we live in dangerous times.

Your experiences have tarnished that which is a blessing. I see now why you have a view of women being dependent and weak.

I am discussing independent women. Women who are successful. Women who wish to live the deen. Women who guard their chastity. Equally, brother you have not changed my mind by introducing into the conversation men who marry their mistress.

As a matter of fact men need variety. I am a woman and I know that.

:salam2:

Not all men want or need variety and as :Allah: has created different men there are different women.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam alaikum,

And for the brother that knows he needs variety and for the sister who knows she can share make it easier on them; even if we live in the west. The brothers are not stepping up to meet the needs of sisters. The brothers are not stepping up.

Answer this for me brother...ok..so I guard myself...I am human...a non-Muslim comes knocking on my door...no Muslim has stepped up...is the sin only mine? Or is it shared? Can I not say the brothers ignored me? ( I am fully aware of the last statement I wrote: it takes two to tango)