Discussion on Deobandis

az101

http://www.miraathpublications.net/
DEOBANDI MISGUIDENCE IN A NUTSHELL

[video=youtube;V12EXEFEy1I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V12EXEFEy1I[/video]
 

az101

http://www.miraathpublications.net/
Misguidence of Tableege Jamaat who are the Sufi wing of the Debandies

[video=youtube;2eDpb_zsIao]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eDpb_zsIao[/video]
 

az101

http://www.miraathpublications.net/
THEN WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SAVED AND AIDED? WHICH SECT is the SAVED SECT??

they are those who are upon the QURAN AND SUNNAH and learning it and implementing it according to the The U N D E R S T A N D I N G of Salaf as Saalih exact...

CLICK BELOW AND LEARN WHO THEY ARE

http://abdurrahman.org/sunnah/index.html

and they are known as the Salafis in this era... no doubt and they are the REAL
Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamah



Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan on Ascription to Salafiyyah and Saying 'I am Salafi'



fawzan-salafiyyah.jpg

Translation of the above letter of Sheikh Salih Al Fawzaan

What is the ruling on ascribing to the Righteous Salaf and naming oneself with that (i.e. as a 'Salafi')?
The Shaykh's answer:

Those intended by [the term] 'al-Salaf al-Saalih' are the first of this Ummah, at the forefront of whom are the Companions of Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam). Allaah, the Exalted said, "And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhaajireen (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansaar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhaajireen) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success." (At-Tawbah 9:100) And He - the Sublime and Exalted - said, when He mentioned the Muhaajireen and Ansaar in Surah al-Hashr, "For the poor emigrants who were expelled from their homes and their properties, seeking bounty from Allah and [His] approval and supporting Allah and His Messenger, [there is also a share]. Those are the truthful." (al-Hashr 59:8). Then He said regarding the Ansaar, "And [also for] those who were settled in al-Madinah and [adopted] the faith before them. They love those who emigrated to them and find not any want in their breasts of what the emigrants were given but give [them] preference over themselves, even though they are in privation. And whoever is protected from the stinginess of his soul - it is those who will be the successful." (al-Hashr 59:9). Then he said concerning those who came after them, "And [there is a share for] those who came after them, saying, 'Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who preceded us in faith and put not in our hearts [any] resentment toward those who have believed. Our Lord, indeed You are Kind and Merciful'." (al-Hashr 59:10).
So these (ones mentioned in these verses), they are the Righteous Salaf: The first of this Ummah from the Companions of Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) and from the Taabi'een (Successors) and whoever came after them from the excellent generations, and everyone who held fast to this manhaj and traversed upon it from those who came after them and traversed upon their way, just as Imaam Maalik bin Anas (rahimahullaah) said, "The latter part of this ummah will not be rectified except with what rectified its earlier part."

And ascription to the Righteous Salaf is an honour when the ascription is actualized [made real through true following] and is not a mere claim. As for a person saying, "I am Salafi", or "This group is a Salafi group", if there is something necessitating this, then there is no harm, like when there are opposing sects and sects antagonistic to the Righteous Salaf, and so a person makes apparent his freedom from these opposers and ascribes to the Salaf, there is no harm in that. Rather, this is absolutely necessary (مُحَتَّمٌ). Allaah, the Lofty and Exalted, said, "And who is better in speech than the one who calls to Allaah, works righteous deeds and says, 'I am from the Muslims'." (Fussilat 41:33). This ascription is to the Muslims and a proclamation for this ascription.[*] As for when there is nothing necessitating (this ascription) and when all of the society or land is upon the aqidah of the Salaf and upon the manhaj of the Salaf, then it is not desirable for a person to say, "I am Salafi", because this comprises a tazkiyah (self-commendation) for oneself without anything necessitating this matter. So the matter, as is apparent, requires clarification (tafseel), and Allaah knows best.

[*] The Shaykh intends by this verse to demonstrate evidence that a Muslim who works righteous deeds upon the foundation of Tawheed may proclaim his ascription to the Muslims, indicating his freedom from others (who are not upon the foundation of Tawheed) from the opposers and that proclaiming an ascription openly by which one distinguishes himself from that which is opposition and falsehood is a permissible matter, in fact a necessary matter in the appropriate situation. The Shaykh used this verse as proof to demonstrate that a person may ascribe to the Salaf and identify himself as a Salafi to indicate that which he is upon of the aqidah and manhaj of the Salaf in order to distinguish himself from all the opposers from the various groups and sects.

Translation by Abu Iyaad.
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
Do you even know who the salafis are? Have you even studied its numerous divisions that are existing today? Salafis for one curses imam Abu Hanifa!!
How can you just copy paste without knowledge?
Mods, its time to close this thread or we will be having a bunch of lies like this posted everyday.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Do you even know who the salafis are? Have you even studied its numerous divisions that are existing today? Salafis for one curses imam Abu Hanifa!!
How can you just copy paste without knowledge?
Mods, its time to close this thread or we will be having a bunch of lies like this posted everyday.

aslam o alaikum wr wb

akhi not everyone is like that, there are numerous divisions like u mention but i know wat u mean some people go out of their way anywayz the best thing is to follow the salaf, and Abu Haneefa (rah) was one of the tabieen SubhanAllah
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
for those living in chicago or near, there are two darul ulooms in Chicago who have Hazrath Mufti Nawalur Rahman sahib and Shaikh Husain Abdul Sattar as imams. You can take your concerns to them.
for those living in and around the capital there is Mufti Yusuf ibnu Ya'qoob who runs a daarul uloom in Washington DC.He's one of the foremost students of Mufti Ibraaheem Desai of South Africa and is extremely knowledgeable.
The national markaz for the work of tableegh is in Brooklyn, New York City, named masjidul Falaah.
Than there is a senior Shaykh in Florida. His name is Hazrat Bahuddin Saleem sahib db. He is son of Hakeemul Ummat's khalifa Hazrat Imamuddin sahib of Hyderabad and a murid of Hakeemul Ummat Hazrat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi.

Now, if you are serious about learning than visit them. If you have preconceived notions than it will be helpful to expel them from your minds. The allegations that you all have made will be ably refuted there.

Those who allege deviation of deobandis, meet these shaikhs and tell me if you find any deviations and please stop misguiding others.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
:salam2:

Here's another question to throw in: Why do they call themselves Deobandis anyway? Why not just muslims? Do they *need* to have a separate name, if they're on the right aqeedah?

Exactly, this is the question I asked but no answer. Perhaps this is one of the disallowed question. I'm scared to ask now, the mod had given stern warning.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Assalamu'alaikum,

After reading and reading, I believe originally Deobandi was founded for good thing. But it's followers may have confused themselves and the rest of the Muslims. Correct me if I'm wrong. Mod, I maybe making an ignorant conclusion, not passing a judgement. Just like other Islamic organisations, followers of a sheik / imam, the followers are the one normally spoiled the soup. They may called themselves Shafi's, Ashaari's etc.. if the followers deviated it is unfair to blame the founder or imam or the sheikh. Am I correct?
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
Exactly, this is the question I asked but no answer. Perhaps this is one of the disallowed question. I'm scared to ask now, the mod had given stern warning.

ask any muslim in india and they will generally tell you that they are sunni muslims. If madhab is asked only then will they say the madhab they follow. Only if you ask a scholar from which institute he has passed out will he name it be it deoband or sahranpur or nizamuddin or akkalkuwa. They dont parade around saying we are deobandi. If you ask an american who he is? when he says he is american will you have any problem with that ? Only when you ask than he will answer. He wont hang a signboard declaring his nationality.
Hope you understand.
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
:salam2:

Here's another question to throw in: Why do they call themselves Deobandis anyway? Why not just muslims? Do they *need* to have a separate name, if they're on the right aqeedah?

why should anyone have any nationality anyway ? why not just human beings? Do they need to have a separate name, if they're truly humans?
 

uniqueskates

Rabbe Zidni Illma
Brother Tariq, just want you to clarify one thing so people don't get confused, from what i remember the tawassul through the prophet that some scholars allowed was only via the honor of the prophet ie.

Acceptable tawassul (some Ahlussnah scholars)- Oh Allaah i ask you by the honor and status of the prophet....!

Not acceptable (all scholars)- Oh prophet we ask you to ask Allah...!

wold you agree to the above?

That's exactly the doubt I am having. thank you bro User Expired! for framing it beautifully.
Well. Anybody can clarify it.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
ask any muslim in india and they will generally tell you that they are sunni muslims. If madhab is asked only then will they say the madhab they follow. Only if you ask a scholar from which institute he has passed out will he name it be it deoband or sahranpur or nizamuddin or akkalkuwa. They dont parade around saying we are deobandi. If you ask an american who he is? when he says he is american will you have any problem with that ? Only when you ask than he will answer. He wont hang a signboard declaring his nationality.
Hope you understand.

Brother,

Thank you for addressing my question and I appreciate that. I make it clear to you once and for all, not because the Mod had warned but sincerely I've nothing against Deoband if they are here really to propagate Islam. So, now you are telling me that Deobandi is an institute and you call your self as Deobandi to indicate you studied in this institute. Ok, acceptable to me. Right or wong, I do admire the way you defend Deoband but control your emotion.

Next question, hope you don't mind, is it true this institution propagating Ash'ari / Maturidi's Creed?
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
Brother,

Thank you for addressing my question and I appreciate that. I make it clear to you once and for all, not because the Mod had warned but sincerely I've nothing against Deoband if they are here really to propagate Islam. So, now you are telling me that Deobandi is an institute and you call your self as Deobandi to indicate you studied in this institute. Ok, acceptable to me. Right or wong, I do admire the way you defend Deoband but control your emotion.

Next question, hope you don't mind, is it true this institution propagating Ash'ari / Maturidi's Creed?

Ash'ari / Maturidi
These two terms refer to the followers of Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari (d. 324/936) and Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944).
The source of our doctrines is the Quran and Sunna, but the great scholars were responsible for giving it some order, coherence and formalness. Certainly, Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari was one of these great scholars and he is accredited with formulating the Aqidah of the Ahl Sunna wal Jama’at. In particular, he lived at a time when many deviant sects were gaining prominence, such as the Mu’tazilas. Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari was instrumental in refuting their claims and doctrines, and was able to do this as he was at one time a Mutazila himself.
Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944) became a similar voice for the Ahl Sunna in Samarqand, (as did Imam Tahawi was in Egypt).
Subsequently, followers of these two great scholars became known as Asharis and Maturidis. Because they both proved and authenticated beliefs of the Ahl Al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah by evidences derived from the Quran, the Ahadith of the Messenger of Allah, and by the Ijma’ (consensus) of the Muslims and intellect (sound reasoning), they are known as the real exponents of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah.
-from islamiccentre.org
The muslims who call themselves ahlalsunnah wal jamaah belong to the ashari maturidi creed whether they are aware of it or not.
The founders of deoband are ahlal sunnah wal jamaah.
Does this help ?
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
also read this -
Deobandis and Marturidis

by Moulana Imraan Vawda



Introduction

Of recent, the so-called Salafi sect have declared the followers of the Ulama of Deoband to be out of the pale of Islam on the basis of them being Marturidis.

Who are the Marturidis?

The beliefs of Islam are quite clear, as expounded in the Quráan and Sunnah, and as understood by the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). It is this set of simple beliefs that are the fundamentals of Imaan. Whoever adheres to these straight-forward Aqaaid is considered a Muslim and one who rejects any of the essential beliefs of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum) is out of Islam. It is this set of simple beliefs that is the criterion of whether a person is Muslim or not.

As Islam spread far and wide, many of the works of Greek philosophy were translated into Arabic. Muslims were for the first time exposed to the rational theology of the Greeks. This created a climate where arguments for and against Islamic beliefs were examined in the light of Greek rational thought. This gave birth to a new discipline called Ilmul Kalam.

Thus Ilmul Kalam was not a purely Islamic discipline, having not existed during the time of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). It was a branch of knowledge that arose out of the need of the time, i.e. the need to refute Greek theology on the basis of rational principles.

In the process of examining Islamic beliefs on the basis of Greek philosophy, many new questions arose. These delicate and intricate questions were never posed before, nor were they discussed during the age of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). There were no explicit texts of the Quráan and Sunnah in reply to these intricate questions.

Discussions around these intricate issues led to the formation of many groups. In this field of knowledge the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah were represented by two Ulama, Imaam Abul Hasan Ashari and Imaam Abu Mansoor Al Marturidi (Rahimahumallah). They successfully covered these delicate issues in their discourses, and clarified the standpoint of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah in these matters. Thus, as far as Ilmul Kalam is concerned, the outlook of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is confined to the works of these two Imaams of Ilmul Kalam. Allamah Haythami states in his Fatawa Hadithiyyah:

"…whoever is upon a path other than the path of Ahl al-Sunna wa l-Jama'a, Ahl al-Sunna wa l-Jama'a meaning the followers of Sheikh Abul Hasan Ash'ari and Abu Mansur Maturidi, the two Imams of Ahl al-Sunna." (Haytami, al-Fatawa al-hadithiyya, 280)
The followers of Imaam Abu Mansoor Marturidi are called Marturidi. The Ulama of Deoband are Marturidi.

While these two Imaams differed on minor issues, it was merely a difference of interpretation, for the subject matter of Ilmul Kalam is rational thought, which itself allows for differences of interpretation.

Salafis and Marturidis

At the very outset it should be stated the Salafis possess very shallow knowledge. They lack depth and understanding, and are extremely hasty in rejecting that which they cannot understand, or rather, do not wish to understand.

The Salafis have taken some of the statements of these two Imaams (Imaam Abul Hasan Ashari and Imaam Abu Mansoor Al Marturidi - Rahimahumallah) and misinterpreted them on the basis of their superficial knowledge. They have thus decreed these two to be out of the pale of Islam (May Allah Ta'ala save us from such evil).

Secondary Nature

The issues discussed by these two Imaams are of a secondary nature. They are issues of rational thought, and not issues of the basic and simple Aqaaid of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). Since there exists no clear cut texts of the Quráan and Hadith on these issues, differences in these issues do not render one out of Islam, provided one adheres to the Aqaaid of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum).

The Challenge

If the followers of the Ulama of Deoband are to be regarded as apostates on the basis of them following Imaam Abu Mansoor Al Marturidi (Rahimahullah), then we challenge the Salafis to declare all those illustrious Ulama (past and present) who followed him to be apostates as well. The result will be that a major portion of the heritage of the Ulama of Islam will have to be thrown in the waste bin.

Salafis and Barelvis

If the Salafis continue at their present rate of Takfeer (declaring others as kaafir), they will soon resemble the Barelvis who declare almost everyone beside themselves to be kaafir. Thus, besides this handful of misguided souls, everyone of earth are out of Islam. May Allah Ta'ala save us from such misguidance.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Moulana Imraan Vawda, www.ask-imam.com
for: FATWA DEPT.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Ash'ari / Maturidi
These two terms refer to the followers of Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari (d. 324/936) and Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944).
The source of our doctrines is the Quran and Sunna, but the great scholars were responsible for giving it some order, coherence and formalness. Certainly, Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari was one of these great scholars and he is accredited with formulating the Aqidah of the Ahl Sunna wal Jama’at. In particular, he lived at a time when many deviant sects were gaining prominence, such as the Mu’tazilas. Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari was instrumental in refuting their claims and doctrines, and was able to do this as he was at one time a Mutazila himself.
Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944) became a similar voice for the Ahl Sunna in Samarqand, (as did Imam Tahawi was in Egypt).
Subsequently, followers of these two great scholars became known as Asharis and Maturidis. Because they both proved and authenticated beliefs of the Ahl Al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah by evidences derived from the Quran, the Ahadith of the Messenger of Allah, and by the Ijma’ (consensus) of the Muslims and intellect (sound reasoning), they are known as the real exponents of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah.
-from islamiccentre.org
The muslims who call themselves ahlalsunnah wal jamaah belong to the ashari maturidi creed whether they are aware of it or not.
The founders of deoband are ahlal sunnah wal jamaah.
Does this help ?

The problem not with these scholars:

Ash'ari / Maturidi
These two terms refer to the followers of Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari (d. 324/936) and Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944).

But the followers:

Subsequently, followers of these two great scholars became known as Asharis and Maturidis.

But I can understand why you attack Salafis. The Salafis are not perfectly following the Salaf, but Asharis and Maturidis certainly not following the Creed as understood and practice by the Salaf. If this school propagating Asharis and Maturidis, I've no good feeling about Deoband then.
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Ash'ari / Maturidi
These two terms refer to the followers of Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari (d. 324/936) and Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944).
The source of our doctrines is the Quran and Sunna, but the great scholars were responsible for giving it some order, coherence and formalness. Certainly, Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari was one of these great scholars and he is accredited with formulating the Aqidah of the Ahl Sunna wal Jama’at. In particular, he lived at a time when many deviant sects were gaining prominence, such as the Mu’tazilas. Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari was instrumental in refuting their claims and doctrines, and was able to do this as he was at one time a Mutazila himself.
Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (d. 333/944) became a similar voice for the Ahl Sunna in Samarqand, (as did Imam Tahawi was in Egypt).
Subsequently, followers of these two great scholars became known as Asharis and Maturidis. Because they both proved and authenticated beliefs of the Ahl Al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah by evidences derived from the Quran, the Ahadith of the Messenger of Allah, and by the Ijma’ (consensus) of the Muslims and intellect (sound reasoning), they are known as the real exponents of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah.
-from islamiccentre.org
The muslims who call themselves ahlalsunnah wal jamaah belong to the ashari maturidi creed whether they are aware of it or not.
The founders of deoband are ahlal sunnah wal jamaah.
Does this help ?

Brother Mohammadyunus, do you even know what it entails to be an Ash`ari or Maturidi? Do you actually believe that the Ash`ari or Maturidi creed is in line with the `Aqidah of the Salaf? Did you know that if you follow the Ash`ari creed you will be opposing the `Aqidah of the Sahabah, Tabi`in and the Salaf?!?
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
Brother Mohammadyunus, do you even know what it entails to be an Ash`ari or Maturidi? Do you actually believe that the Ash`ari or Maturidi creed is in line with the `Aqidah of the Salaf? Did you know that if you follow the Ash`ari creed you will be opposing the `Aqidah of the Sahabah, Tabi`in and the Salaf?!?

kindly continue...
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
and read this ...

Maturidi are those who follow Shaikh Abu Mansoor Maturidi (d. 333 H). Since, Shaikh Abu Mansoor was a Hanafi therefore his school of thought was popular in Ahnaaf. The followers of Hanafi Fiqh are generally follower of Maturidi school of thought in Kalam. The Ulama of Deoband are Hanafi, therefore they follow Maturidi school of thought. The Ashari and Maturidi schools of thought differ in 12 (twelve) issues; all of them are nonessential and furooi (not principle).

'Sunni' is ascribed to Sunnah, it means the Muslims who follow maslak of Sahaba (رضوان الله عليهم اجمعين) in beliefs and ahkam. Also they embrace the holy Prophet's Sunnah and consensus of Ummah as hujjah (authority) along with the holy Quran. This is the meaning of 'Sunni'. At present time it applies for those who are follower of Imam Abul Hasan al-Asha'ri or Abu Mansoor Maturidi in belief, and Muqallid of any Imam among the four famous Imams in furoo (derivative issues).

-. from the fatwa dept of darul uloom deoband
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
I'm replying only for the sake of clarification.

I don't recall alluding to that.

You did not. But your leniency had the potential to give wrong impressions (that it's OK to follow) to others. Nevertheless, your brief response should clear that up, inshaa Allaah.

Rather what I am requesting members to do is to criticize based on knowledge and clarity.

Yeah, I can see that while some did so from the beginning, some did not. May Allaah increase in our knowledge to that which brings benefit, Ameen.

:jazaak:

:wasalam:
 
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