In Search Of Logical Answers?

a_stranger

Junior Member
----and we can't feed the numbers-------

No you can't feed people , you can't cause the plants to grow, you can't make rain fall, you can't let the digestive system work even within your ownself .........you can look, think, ponder , make experiment , write your thoughts ......and explore the world ......but you are not running this world .......we live for a while .....it is very nice to do all the good we can for humanity ..........then we leave ( carrying with us two things no more our faith in the creator and our deeds). Those scientist who do good with sincere intention to please their creator will be rewarded in accordance to what is in their hearts.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Modern human beings in our form have existed for the last 250,000 years. So why, exactly, has Islam existed for only about 1400 years?

Quran tells that Islam started with Adam alaihi alsalam, all prophets of Allah taught Islam in it's essence , they differ in miner details .Islam starts with the beginning of humanity.
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
Some knowledge can be overwhelming and it takes time to absorb it .Else we will end up being overwhelmed.Let us all take things gradually,argue less and listen more,try to understand each other's pov.Whatever be the case,none can deny that there is a creator behind this beautiful creation,this should be clear insha'Allah.
I have zero knowledge in the subject of biology,although in sha' Allah I am trying to learn.
Our origin is connected to our place of return.To Allah we belong and to Him shall we be returned.So it's infact the place of return and the source we should be worried about.Because in the end when the matter is decided,nothing else will work for us.
As for Islam existing,it existed always,everything created submits to Allah willingly or unwillingly.As a way of life for humans it started from our parents Aadam and Hauwwa(peace be upon them),although the laws differed but way of life remained same throughout,until the final messenger :saw: came.
Then after there was sent a messenger,reciting unto people (signs/verses) from their Lord,if people rejected,they will be asked if no warner came to them?Those who believed will be looking at the face of their Rabb,with their faces shining.
I would suggest myself first then every one else to read the last few verses of Surah Az Zumar chapter 39 and Surah Al Qiyamah chapter 75 of the Qur'an,just as a reminder in sha' Allah.
Salam
 

hayat84

I'm not what you believe
while you're searching for logical answers,Time runs,life slides away every second.There is no logical answer in something which is too big for us.every attempt to find an answer is just a wasting of time.Try to stay with the feet on the earth and content yourselves of what you have:it's enough for us.let you leave those arguments for the ones who want to answer to everything until they'll fill their thirst of knowledge....read Ayat al Kursi and you'll find the logical answers:)
 

John Smith

Junior Member
It says, "Allah is - Al Khaliq" (The Creator)
It also says, "Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)




Proof from ScienceEvolution? Creation?"Big Bang" - BUSTED!Quran: Comments by Top ScientistsScience: Contributions from IslamAstrolabe



For the Muslim there is no need for separation between religion and science. It is understood from the Quran, revealed over 1,400 years ago, that there is both; "Creation" and "Evolution." And in both instances, it is only Allah who is "Able to do all things." In fact, it was the Muslim scientists, more than 1,000 years ago, who set the stage for the advancement of learning, technology and disciplines in science that we know today.

Allah has explained how He created everything in the universe and brought all life out of water. He created humans from earth (not monkeys) and there is no need to attempt fabrications of "links" to the animal world in Islam.

The Christian Bible says that Adam & Eve were both created here on Earth, less than 10,000 years ago. The Quran says that Adam & Eve were created in Heaven, and NOT on Earth. When they disobeyed God, He expelled them from Heaven, down to Earth.

Muslims believe that souls are assigned to humans 40 days after the human inception. The Quran says that angels retrieve human souls on two occasions. One occasion is when humans die. The other occasion is every time humans fall asleep. When humans wakeup, the angels release those souls back to them:


It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that did not die, during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back, but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.


[Noble Quran 39:42]



And Allah has Created every animal from water; of them are some creeping on their bellies; some walk on two legs; and some on four. Allah Creates what He wills: for sure Allah has Power over all things.



[Noble Quran 24:45]


The Quran has set a precedent 14 centuries before modern science, explaining in simple and direct terms about his "creation" of animals and their various functions and then assures us it is He who has the Power over everything. This statement includes the fact Allah can if He Wills, reshape and alter his creation as He Chooses. There is clear evidence within many species of alteration and changes within the species. However, there is no concrete evidence to support a cross over in development from one type to another, such as reptiles turning into birds or alligators turning into cows. The statements made in Quran are quite clear when Allah tells us of having brought forth other life forms and then destroying or replacing them with others. This again, does not imply evolution in the sense of one type becoming or changing into another.

Allah tells us He is Al-Bari, (The Shaper or Evolver) but once again, this does not mean He has a need to bring about each individual life form all from one kind. Actually, while reading the Quran you learn He has brought many types and shapes and sizes as He Wills. Changes within species occur even as quickly as one or two seasons, not even taking a whole year, much less millions as was supposed by Darwin.

Speaking of Charles Darwin, he was only an armature naturalist and had only observed the finches (birds) on the Galapagos Islands for the first time in the mid 1850s. He noticed that on each island the birds had different shaped beaks according to the type of food available on their particular island. For this reason, he assumed, the birds had progressed over millions of years and only the hardiest of the species had survived the climate and vegetation changes. However, this is totally inaccurate and was dismissed as a mere humor in a TV series on the educational channel in October of 1998. According to the scientists’ discoveries in that very same year, the effects of the weather phenomenon known as El Nino, the climate on these same exact islands had drastically changed in a single year within a number of months. And to their surprise, the eggs of the finches on each island hatched open producing birds with beaks already altered to accommodate the changes of their environment.

The commentator even said this shoots Darwin's theory completely down and he laughed.

There is no DNA research pointing to a connection between apes and humans as was supposed by the scientists and those who had financed them over the years. In fact, the barnyard pig is closer to humans in many aspects, than a monkey or a gorilla. Consider the fact, doctors use the skin from pigs to replace needed tissue on burn victims and the famous movie actor, John Wayne had a pig's heart valve installed in his own heart in a 1977 operation to save his life. It worked, too - until his smoking caused him to die of cancer.

The rational approach to the whole subject is rather simple. Just as He is able to Create the universe and bring forth life, it is simple also for Him to produce as many different types of forms of life as He Wills. No problem for Him, after all - He is the Creator and He is the Shaper. And most important, He can change anything as He Wills - even today.

http://www.scienceislam.com/evolution_creation.php
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:

Brother Mohammed, when you start a post, plesae start with a 'salam'. It shows you come with peace, and wish peace to others.

Secondly, it's good to be well-versed with science, but it wouldn't hurt to please please show some respect and adab when talking to your fellow muslims, and especially your muslim sisters. I'm horrified how you're treating our dear precious sister Aisya al-Humaira.

Thirdly, you never answered my question back from Page 4. I asked how that if Adam alayhis salaam was 60 cubits tall, how come we evolved from itty bitty apes?

Fourthly, you say you'll only listen to people who hold scientific degrees, and no one else. Well, our dear Prophet :)saw2:) was illiterate, and held no science degree. Please read your words again and realize what you're saying. And for the love of Allah (Subhana wa taala) respect the scholars.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Islam is the same one message revealed to all prophets of Allah subhanahu wa taaala through times. It is the belief of Adem ,Nouh, Ibrahim, Mossa, Essa, ..........all the prophets alaihim alsalam and finally Mohammad salla Allah alaihi wa sallam .

2:136 Say: "We believe in Allah and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and ,their descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed to Moses and Jesus; and that which has been vouchsafed to all the [other] prophets by their Sustainer: we make no distinction between any of them. And it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves." - *! *!
Translation of the meanings of Quran
 

wasi uddin

New Member
okkkkk dear freind skotty i accept the evolution ...but i have some confusion ....... can u tell me is evolution a continuos process or it as some end point also
 

John Smith

Junior Member
Lisa1979 account has been hacked, Aapa sent some E Books to read and infected her computer and taken her TTI password.

This needs to stop as its getting beyond a joke.
 

Shak78

Junior Member
I will say I am one who believes in evolution like Brother Scotty does. I see no issue between my belief in Allah (swt) and evolution. The fossil record is there for all to see. I have debated this topic on a couple of other Muslim groups and oddly this seems to be the one place where there is basically zero support for evolution.
 

Shak78

Junior Member
Thank you :)

I think maybe you should run for cover now though!

Assalam alakium,

Nah I am good, there are good people on here who I have learned alot about but there are some rather close minded people as well. You take the good with the bad. It is for Allah (swt) to judge me on my belief in evolution. I see it all the time with Christians too, they are so against evolution despite the fossil record being clear. I am firm in my deen and my belief in science. I see no reason you can not have one w/out the other.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
Assalaamu Alaikum,

Thanks Sister Shak78. (Scotty if you are reading this) Read book 'The Blind Spot', in short scientific discoveries are a 'work in progress' and there is more to find, and there are boundaries to our understanding (refer quoted excerpts below). You agree there is a God, that's fundamental to belief. The details of how Allah did, we may never get the complete minute details, but likely to develop an understanding, if Almighty wills. The below is for contemplating, its a good effort to develop a better understanding of our ability to reason. (Posting it for general benefit, because its of common interest.)

A Good Review of the book The Blind Spot :
From: http://www.goodreports.net/reviews/theblindspot.htm
With The Blind Spot William Byers, professor emeritus of mathematics and statistics at Concordia University, has written a passionate, informed manifesto taking aim at our culture's reigning myth of scientific certainty. What Byers would like to put in its place is a science of wonder, one that acknowledges the "Blind Spot" - a metaphor for all that remains inherently and irreducibly unknowable, ambiguous, and mysterious.
This uncertainty is not a bad thing. Though he never mentions Keats, Byers' "science of wonder" is suggestive of the poet's "negative capability": when man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries and doubts. Such a state is to be recommended for several reasons. In the first place it is generative. A science of certainty is a closed, essentially static system, while a science of wonder is all about stimulating human creativity and encouraging free thought and the imagination. It also offers a more honest and accurate account of the real world. "Ambiguity, not logical consistency, is the way things are." In ignoring this, the science of certainty makes excessive and misleading claims for the validity of its methods and models. This makes the dream of total certainty a dangerous one, encouraging us to put too much faith in our ability to control complex systems, like the environment or financial markets, which are inherently unstable and unpredictable.Byers presents a number of complex ideas and paradoxes - like the underlying unity and ambiguity of reality, and the importance of "self-reference," or the human element - in an accessible and informative way. He also works hard to bring together C. P. Snow's "two cultures" of the arts and sciences, and with some success. The discussion remains a bit abstract and pared-down though, and might have benefited from a deeper examination into and further examples of what Byers sees the "crisis" as consisting of (which, for starters, seems more a crisis of certainty than uncertainty, since the former attitude/delusion is what he sees as getting us into trouble).That said, The Blind Spot is an important book for our time, part of a necessary and pressing debate over how to think, and live, within certain and uncertain limits
.


Podcast and comments:
From link: www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/05/byers_on_the_bl.html
William Byers of Canada's Concordia University and author of
The Blind Spot talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the nature of knowledge, science and mathematics. Byers argues that there is an inherent uncertainty about science and our knowledge that is frequently ignored. Byers contrasts a science of wonder with a science of certainty. He suggests that our knowledge of the physical world will always be incomplete because of the imperfection of models and human modes of thought relative to the complexity of the physical world. The conversation also looks at the implications of these ideas for teaching science and social science.

The Blind Spot: Science and the Crisis of Uncertainty, by William Byers
Podcast Highlight: 1:05:08
You are one of a string of guests that I've had on lately that confirm my biases and what we're talking about here is confirming one's biases. So, I have a strong belief, I think not just a bias but a view that our knowledge is limited. It's a very Hayekian view--listeners know I'm a big fan of Hayek, but he talked a lot about what he called in his Nobel Prize lecture the pretense of knowledge --the idea that we have things that we pretend are true. All of what you are saying resonates deeply with me and it confirms this view that I have. So, I want to challenge you to think about: What would somebody say on the other side? Who disagrees with you, thinks you are overstating the case? Certainly that's all we've got is reason--shouldn't we just plow forward and your whole perspective is just too squishy and not scientific? Absolutely, and you know, it's interesting. I don't have to respond to that--I can respond to the part of myself that agrees with that. After all, I have a Ph.D. in mathematics. Why did I go into mathematics? Because I had this view of this perfect world where you could rigorously say what is true and what is false; and I'm still excited by scientific theories of everything; etc. There is a part of me that really resonates to that other point of view. I think myself now, after a lot of reflection that that view is a form of wish fulfillment, and I think I understand why people make it--because it does make you very comfortable. There are clearly certain very basic things about life that are not captured in words. Like one's aesthetic experiences; one's emotional response to music. I think it's vitally important that we include the entire human being in our discussions of science and not just a kind of truncated version of what the human experience is. I'm probably aware as a mathematician more than anyone of the power of reason. But I think that even for mathematicians, when they want to discuss the sources of their creativity, then they are not talking about reason. I want to say that the sources of reason are themselves not reducible to reason. So there is something, and like many, many famous scientists like Albert Einstein, ultimately there is a certain wonder and mystery associated to the natural world that you are either receptive to or not; and I think the great ones are receptive. And then they try to work with that and put it into some more kind of concrete form--which includes rational theories. But when you look back to your sources, then you are looking not beyond the theory so much as before the theory. Before reason. So in that sense, things cannot be captured definitively and things are a little bit open.

 
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