Really saddened by the Ummah

uniqueskates

Rabbe Zidni Illma
To ponder over something said with bad taste, is not helpful, and wasteful. 'To paint the whole town red', ... is a reaction, not reflection.t

Sorry I pit all children equally as they are all innocent, Muslim or not. Muslim children killed are no better or worse then these children that were gunned down. They are all innocent.

Where is the LIKE button when I need them :) Well said. :)

I understand where you are coming from. We should not rejoice at the death of the innocents, especially children. Yet at the same time I can also understand where these "sick" muslims are coming from. There reasoning is that if someone actively engages in bombing and killing of our women and children and rejoices over it then why should we not rejoice when Allah puts them through the same pain and suffering. How many of them cried when they starved over a million iraqi children during the sanctions and then go on air to say it was worth it, or how many children they have killed so far in Afghanistan, Iraq and pakistan with drone attacks. It may very well be that these incidents may be an answer to duas made by the oppressed, who have lost their precious children at the hands of these nations. In such case, a grieving husband, father, brother, sister won't care who is innocent or not, they will make their dua against a whole nation of ppl, praying Allah bring misery and death on them like they have done on us.

So although I understand your frustration, I understand theirs as well. Let's try to look at it from both sides.

Sister, I understand that the West & many other who join hands with them [talking the actual culprits& NOT the innocent ones] cause chaos in the Muslim world. But does that mean we have to rejoice over little kids being killed? They kill, we kill, is it apt to follow this principle sister? So if they go to hell-fire even we must make our way to it? Really sister? If we start doing what they do, then there is no difference between we Muslims & them. Then we being blessed with Islam is of no meaning. Then how do we distinguish ourselves from them?

Alhamdulilah, Allah(SWT) has given us the best gift one could hope for in this life, Islam, and is this what Islam teaches us? To rejoice in little kids being killed? I agree, that our brothers & sisters are frustated that many Muslims are killed everyday mercilessly, but why do we forget THE JUDGEMENT DAY, why do we forget that JUSTICE will be done, one fine day by no other than Allah(SWT)!

Brother Hassan, JazakAllah Khair for the ayat. :)

P.S - I do firmly believe that the wrong should be punished. But rejoicing over innocent kids, sheesshh!! Its very much shameful act in my eyes(personal opinion). Justice must prevail. No matter what.

I meant no offence. Peace. :)
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
Before we start bashing nations, people and then each other on here. Let's keep things in perspective inshallah. First of all, children that have not reached puberty yet are innocent and free from sin. Should they die before reaching puberty than inshallah they all go to Jannah, regardless of race, creed or nationality. And in Islam the value of life is important, so important that it is said that killing one person is like killing all of mankind and saving one person is like saving all of mankind. So we should not gloat over the death of the children, it is indeed a tragedy and as Muslims and humans we should understand this as such.

At the same time, I don't see anything wrong in what sister casiva is saying. Muslim children die by the 100s every day, how much media hype is there about that? how many presidential speeches are done then? how many know about their suffering? just because we live on this side of the world, doesn't mean we should be ignorant of what is going on with those children and not bothering to do even a dua for them.

And on the issue of

They can't see the differenance between regular Americans and the Government of America. Anyone who is rejoicing about 20 dead 6 and 7 year olds is just not right. To rejoice about the killing of ANY child is wrong but I guess for some since they are American children its ok to rejoice about their deaths. How sickening. .

While we know the people and government is not the same, most people will think otherwise. Especially those who have suffered. You have no right to call it sickening. What can you understand the pain of a mother whose family was wiped out by a drone attack in Pakistan? what can you understand the pain of a mother whose child was shot in the head by USA paid and provided bullets to the zionists? While other muslims may not have the right to rejoice, these mothers have every right to rejoice to make dua that those who killed her children have their children taken away from them, that they too feel the same pain. It is their right to make any dua and no dua of the oppressed is rejected. Call it karma, call it divine retribution, as sad as this tragedy maybe, it could bee seen as way of punishment for these people by Allah. To make them suffer as they have done to others. I know you may not agree with it, but that is the realty of this world. It easy to express our opinions on forums but the ones who truly understand this are the oppressed.
As for how I treat my brothers and sisters, I have none other then in faith and I treat them as they treat me, and those who rejoice in the killing of children because they are American are not my brothers and sisters in faith.
let's not get emotional and utter things knowingly without realizing the weight behind them. We could say something thinking so trivial yet it could be grave in the sight of Allah and vice versa. By stating the above about your brothers and sisters in faith (Muslims) you are either saying you are not a Muslim or they are not Muslims. That is a very dangerous thing to say for the Prophet (s.a.w) said a person who says such a thing will herself be out of the fold of Islam. You can disagree with them all you want but be careful of start saying so carelessly.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

Okay, so when the debate started I scrolled down directly. . .

1)Let's just remember those children were from amongst us. They were minors, and upon the fitrah. NO ONE, even those who have lost their relatives to American forces is right rejoicing because their "own" died. Yes these children are "ours". May Allah grant them Jannah. In duniya, they may have non muslim relatives, but in `akhira they are "ours". So who out there is fool enough to be happy because "their" children died?

2)Second, if you don't have the strength be better than the non muslims in something like this and want to be "Just like them". Question your Imaan. What is it's purpose if it not getting you past this. Have you really surrendered to Islam i.e a way of peace? Yes, we feel the pain, and words escape our mouths. We are humans, not curved out of stones, we have feelings too. But a Muslim is that who by virtue of their faith is able to have sabr, and forgive and not wish that for other which he hates for him/herselves. And such Muslims exist walhumdulillah.

3)Thirdly, there is no need to bring out "payback" card here or anywhere. Muslims are in such a state not because any Non muslim, American Israeli or Indian has the guts to look at us with bad intentions, but because "we" are inviting them to dance over our bodies, by turning our backs to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

About time we accept our mistakes than find comfort in blaming others.
 

Casiva

A Servant of Allah
So, you can bash American Muslims but now that I've bashed Arab Muslims I've gone too far?
Interesting....Dont throw rocks when you live in glass house.

Actually, I have no problem with Arabs, however, when criticizing our problems you need to realize ALL countries (Muslim or not) have their own.

Also, I will highlight some threads from the "news and current affairs" area of this site. I see:

Syria, Syria, Syria, genocide in burma, "please remember our brothers and sisters" (syria), gaza, gaza, syria, and Palestine wins UN general assembly vote.

Also, did you know that Palestine has its own forum on this site?
Bam: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=32

I didn't bash american muslims or any other muslims but I pointed out at those who oppressed muslims. What I meant was we muslims should not fight at each other and blame other muslims while there were other parties who deserve MORE to be blamed. Let them who wish to mourn and let them who wish to rejoice, both of them have their rights on this. What is so difficult with respecting your brothers and sisters more? If you have time to argue with me over this trivial matter, use it for arguing your government that has no sense of humanity towards muslims all over the world!
About those threads, I seldom see them in recent topics. That means that those threads have less attention than what they should. Why don't all of us go there instead of insisting to blame our own muslims brothers and sisters here?

Before we start bashing nations, people and then each other on here. Let's keep things in perspective inshallah. First of all, children that have not reached puberty yet are innocent and free from sin. Should they die before reaching puberty than inshallah they all go to Jannah, regardless of race, creed or nationality. And in Islam the value of life is important, so important that it is said that killing one person is like killing all of mankind and saving one person is like saving all of mankind. So we should not gloat over the death of the children, it is indeed a tragedy and as Muslims and humans we should understand this as such.

At the same time, I don't see anything wrong in what sister casiva is saying. Muslim children die by the 100s every day, how much media hype is there about that? how many presidential speeches are done then? how many know about their suffering? just because we live on this side of the world, doesn't mean we should be ignorant of what is going on with those children and not bothering to do even a dua for them.


While we know the people and government is not the same, most people will think otherwise. Especially those who have suffered. You have no right to call it sickening. What can you understand the pain of a mother whose family was wiped out by a drone attack in Pakistan? what can you understand the pain of a mother whose child was shot in the head by USA paid and provided bullets to the zionists? While other muslims may not have the right to rejoice, these mothers have every right to rejoice to make dua that those who killed her children have their children taken away from them, that they too feel the same pain. It is their right to make any dua and no dua of the oppressed is rejected. Call it karma, call it divine retribution, as sad as this tragedy maybe, it could bee seen as way of punishment for these people by Allah. To make them suffer as they have done to others. I know you may not agree with it, but that is the realty of this world. It easy to express our opinions on forums but the ones who truly understand this are the oppressed.

let's not get emotional and utter things knowingly without realizing the weight behind them. We could say something thinking so trivial yet it could be grave in the sight of Allah and vice versa. By stating the above about your brothers and sisters in faith (Muslims) you are either saying you are not a Muslim or they are not Muslims. That is a very dangerous thing to say for the Prophet (s.a.w) said a person who says such a thing will herself be out of the fold of Islam. You can disagree with them all you want but be careful of start saying so carelessly.

I can't express how I like your post, sadly we have no "like" button here. You have said almost all things I want to write. To make clear, I don't support children's killings. But I don't like people here who blame those who rejoice it because those muslims do it solely because of being oppressed. I think labeling our rejoicing brothers and sisters "sickening and blind" is the same sickening and blind as the claims. They who live peacefully at home have no rights to judge other oppressed people, moreover if those people are fellow muslims! Also, fighting other muslims just for the sake of blaming another muslims? Come on, people! Jews, christians, atheists and others will laugh at us reading this discussion. Muslims should unite if we want Islam to stay strong. Let's get over this discussion and start to think how we can help our suffering muslim brothers and sisters all over the world!
 

xAllahKnowsBestx

Junior Member
Yes, you don't understand, because your children have never been killed in front of you while you can do NOTHING except of praying. We are not angel and Allah is not jesus christ who will wash away all the sins without punishment. NO. We are human, sometimes we are suffered by others and can't accept nor forgive easily. Allah has allowed us to pray, even badly, for any injustice acts. Allah will repay all those who injustice so they will feel how are their victims' feelings. After punishment, Allah will forgive them. That is FAIR!
They are perhaps nothing to you but those oppressed muslims see that as symbol of "justice to be served". That is nothing compared to countless dead muslims children in Palestine. It is your rights to be sad for those children, but it is also their rights to rejoice. Blaming those muslims for rejoicing proves that you have no sympathy towards your fellow muslims' pain!
Oh, I am sure there are many differences. Firstly, because muslims are not the ones who kill the children. They are killed by their own people. So, those muslims have no fault. While those westerners KILLED muslims and they paid no mind. That is fully their faults. Secondly, muslims have full rights to rejoice because they have been oppressed while the westerners don't have this rights because they did the killings. Thirdly, muslim's blood is much more valuable before Allah. Fourthly, we are not going to heaven based on nationality but based on religion, so religion matters must come first.
Be sad at your content, but blaming your own brothers and sisters because of this matter is insensitive and shameful!

Do you not consider these children a part of our ummah? Is the fact that they're American and have non-Muslim parents reaaally so horrible that we should rejoice when they die? Please don't play the guilt by association game. If anything we should be directing our anger towards those who actually do the killing, not these innocent kids.

Firstly, because muslims are not the ones who kill the children. They are killed by their own people. So, those muslims have no fault. While those westerners KILLED muslims and they paid no mind. That is fully their faults.

No. I don't think any of these parents picked up guns and terrorized children in Muslim lands. We should be directing our hatred towards those who actually do the killing, not civilians and children.

Secondly, muslims have full rights to rejoice because they have been oppressed while the westerners don't have this rights because they did the killings.

Tell me why these children have to pay for what the government does. Nobody should be happy when children die. I cannot understand and don't want to understand how anyone can justify this.

Thirdly, muslim's blood is much more valuable before Allah. Fourthly, we are not going to heaven based on nationality but based on religion, so religion matters must come first.

They're children. Just because a child was born into a Muslim family it doesn't make them their blood more valuable than the child who was born into a non-Muslim family. They're children. I don't really know how a six year old possibly couldn't have read up on Islam and reverted by the age of six.. god forbid!


I have to say (I'm not talking about you) but the most hate filled posts I've come across haven't been from Palestinians or Syrians. They're from random angry Muslims who just want another reason to hate. In fact the most beautiful posts I've seen were by Palestinians on my Facebook saying they know how it feels to lose a child, sympathizing with these parents.

We shouldn't be retaliating with hatred. It won't make things better.
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
Originally Posted by Casiva
Firstly, because muslims are not the ones who kill the children. They are killed by their own people. So, those muslims have no fault. While those westerners KILLED muslims and they paid no mind. That is fully their faults.

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear sister, it is not according to Islaam to blame innocent people for what they did not done. Nobody has blame Muslims for this horrible crime against these innocnet children Alhmadulillah, and actually this is not related with Islaam neither with us Muslims on any way. Alhamdulilah there should be any diffrence for us between Muslim and non Muslim children, because every child is the same infront of Allah.

Originally Posted by Casiva
Secondly, muslims have full rights to rejoice because they have been oppressed while the westerners don't have this rights because they did the killings.

I do not understand sister how can you think on this way, that someone should rejoice when innocnet children who do not done any wrong to any one be taken its lifes, or how can someone even rejoice when any innocnet human being be killed unjusticly regardless of his origin or religion. Every life is valuable Alhamdulillah and this is one of the most bacis teaching of our religion Islaam.


Originally Posted by Casiva
Thirdly, muslim's blood is much more valuable before Allah. Fourthly, we are not going to heaven based on nationality but based on religion, so religion matters must come first.

Dear sister, we should not forget that Allah subhanahu wa teala has created all people and that He is the One who is giving life to them and providing them the same from His blessings,and not only to us Muslims. Somone been only Muslim by name does not make him better in his deeds than the one who is not Muslim, but been Muslim it includes one deeds as well,and we do not know when Allah can guide someone toward Islaam.

And Allah knows the best.

May Allah reward these children with Jannah and give patience to their parents. Ameen summa Ameen

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu
 

Shak78

Junior Member
To this day I do not nor will I ever understand anyone who is happy a child was killed no matter the nationality. I have seen so many posts on FB and here from Muslims that are happy children are dead simply because they are American kids. I do not understand that mentality. A child is a child is a child who is INNOCENT no matter what and to take joy in any way about their death, you are no better then those who take joy in the deaths of Muslim children. I have said my piece and its sad that there are my brothers and sisters in faith who are happy children are dead simply due to the nationality. I have a great many things to think about and consider.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
It is for no one in particular and for everyone in general:

Imam Shafi'i from his golden pieces of advice. He said:

إذا نطق السفيه فلا تجبه فخير من إجابته السكوت فإن كلمته فـرّجت عنـه وإن خليته كـمدا يمـوت​

"If the fool* speaks, don't respond to him as silence is the best answer (for him). If you (do) speak to him (then) you have supported him (i.e. his foolishness by giving him importance); and if you left him (without speaking/answering), then in anguish he dies."

* Those without sense, wisdom or sincerity - who do not seek the truth, but rather want to perpetuate their nonsense and unnecessary arguments and wrangling.

Source
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
To this day I do not nor will I ever understand anyone who is happy a child was killed no matter the nationality. I have seen so many posts on FB and here from Muslims that are happy children are dead simply because they are American kids. I do not understand that mentality. A child is a child is a child who is INNOCENT no matter what and to take joy in any way about their death, you are no better then those who take joy in the deaths of Muslim children. I have said my piece and its sad that there are my brothers and sisters in faith who are happy children are dead simply due to the nationality. I have a great many things to think about and consider.

I think thats when you change your circle of friends.
To me it goes both ways. There were people happy when a Muslim is killed or arrested, and apparently there are people who rationalize the death of children because they're American. Only Allah swt knows why they think this, but separate yourself from both types.
 

Hassan

Laa ilaha ilaa Allah
Staff member
Imam Shafi'i from his golden pieces of advice. He said:

إذا نطق السفيه فلا تجبه فخير من إجابته السكوت فإن كلمته فـرّجت عنـه وإن خليته كـمدا يمـوت​

"If the fool* speaks, don't respond to him as silence is the best answer (for him). If you (do) speak to him (then) you have supported him (i.e. his foolishness by giving him importance); and if you left him (without speaking/answering), then in anguish he dies."

* Those without sense, wisdom or sincerity - who do not seek the truth, but rather want to perpetuate their nonsense and unnecessary arguments and wrangling.

Source

:jazaak:

:salam2:
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
Assalaamu Alaikum,

When we segregate to analyze, we are knocking at the doors of division. Isn't it?

So far, all posts say the same thing,
1. The act was wrong
2. The act was wrong
3. The act was wrong

And our minds try to do a little more. It can be summarized as below:
The life of this 21 year old, will be dissected and probed in depth. The ones who are sincere will learn from it, find measures to avoid it. And the ones who will segregate and analyze the bad reaction of people will learn more bad reactions...
Choice.

Are such threads needed, when we know cold, calculated emotional reasoning are running high?!

And, Al-Hasan al-Basri said: "I am astonished about those people who are ordered to prepare their provisions, then the start of the journey is announced, however they remain unmindful in their vain discussions and fruitless deeds."
When newspapers world over carried the news of Madness in US (and China) School, they announced the end of journey of innocent kids. So can we say, we again remain unmindful in our vain discussion and fruitless deeds?"

Please read Remembering Death: A gift for a believer here, I think its really beneficial.

It is for no one in particular and for everyone in general:

Imam Shafi'i from his golden pieces of advice. He said:

إذا نطق السفيه فلا تجبه فخير من إجابته السكوت فإن كلمته فـرّجت عنـه وإن خليته كـمدا يمـوت​


"If the fool* speaks, don't respond to him as silence is the best answer (for him). If you (do) speak to him (then) you have supported him (i.e. his foolishness by giving him importance); and if you left him (without speaking/answering), then in anguish he dies."

* Those without sense, wisdom or sincerity - who do not seek the truth, but rather want to perpetuate their nonsense and unnecessary arguments and wrangling.

Source
 

Casiva

A Servant of Allah
No. I don't think any of these parents picked up guns and terrorized children in Muslim lands. We should be directing our hatred towards those who actually do the killing, not civilians and children.
Tell me why these children have to pay for what the government does. Nobody should be happy when children die. I cannot understand and don't want to understand how anyone can justify this.

I do not understand sister how can you think on this way, that someone should rejoice when innocnet children who do not done any wrong to any one be taken its lifes, or how can someone even rejoice when any innocnet human being be killed unjusticly regardless of his origin or religion.

You can see the perfect example by the death of first born in Prophet Mouses (pbuh)'s ten plague. What have they done to Prophet Mouses (pbuh)? Nothing. But are their parents are all innocent? Well, you can't know exactly because there are not detail explanations. It is related to your question about their parents. Have you done complete background check so you know that they are all not involved in muslim children killings? They can be involved somehow by donating, supporting, etc. Sometimes Allah's way to repay is vary and not directly, but it will do hurt the oppressor. You can see how pharaoh and usa devastated by this.

I have to say (I'm not talking about you) but the most hate filled posts I've come across haven't been from Palestinians or Syrians. They're from random angry Muslims who just want another reason to hate. In fact the most beautiful posts I've seen were by Palestinians on my Facebook saying they know how it feels to lose a child, sympathizing with these parents.

And about random muslim comment, have you done total survey of their EXACT locations?Sometimes they fake their locations out of safety reason. Anyway, I found this while browsing:

Killing children in Afghanistan is now
legitimate says US army


The US military is facing fresh
questions over its targeting policy in
Afghanistan after a senior army officer
suggested that troops were on the lookout
for "children with potential hostile
intent".In comments which legal experts
and campaigners described as "deeply
troubling", army Lt Col Marion Carrington
told the Marine Corp Times that children,
as well as "military-age males", had been
identified as a potential threat because
some were being used by the Taliban to
assist in attacks against Afghan and
coalition forces."It kind of opens our
aperture," said Carrington, whose unit, 1st
Battalion, 508th Parachute Infantry
Regiment, was assisting the Afghan police.
"In addition to looking for military-age
males, it's looking for children with
potential hostile intent."
In the article, headlined "Some Afghan kids
aren't bystanders" , Carrington referred to a case this year in which the Afghan national
police in Kandahar province said they found
children helping insurgents by carrying soda
bottles full of potassium chlorate.The piece
also quoted an unnamed marine corps
official who questioned the "innocence" of
Afghan children, particularly three who were
killed in a US rocket strike in October. Last
month, the New York Times quoted local
officials who said Borjan, 12, Sardar Wali,
10, and Khan Bibi, eight, from Helmand's
Nawa district had been killed while
gathering dung for fuel.
However, the US official claimed that,
before they called for the strike on
suspected insurgents planting improvised
explosive devices, marines had seen the
children digging a hole in a dirt road and
that "the Taliban may have recruited the
children to carry out the mission".Last
year, Human Rights Watch reported a sharp
increase in the Taliban's deployment of
children in suicide bombings, some as
young as seven.
But the apparent widening of the US
military's already controversial targeting
policy has alarmed human rights lawyers
and campaigners.Amos Guiora, a law
professor at the University of Utah
specialising in counter-terrorism, said
Carrington's remarks reflected the shifting
definitions of legitimate military targets
within the Obama administration.
Guiora, who spent years in the Israel
Defence Forces, including time as a legal
adviser in the Gaza Strip, said: "I have great
respect for people who put themselves in
harm's way. Carrington is probably a great
guy, but he is articulating a deeply
troubling policy adopted by the Obama
administration.
"The decision about who you consider a
legitimate target is less defined by your
conduct than the conduct of the people or
category of people which you are assigned
to belong to … That is beyond troubling. It
is also illegal and immoral."Guiora added:
"If you are looking to create a paradigm
where you increase the 'aperture' – that
scares me. It doesn't work, operationally,
morally or practically."Guiora cited
comments made by John Brennan, the
White House counter-terrorism chief, in
April, in which he "talked about flexible
definitions of imminent threat."
Pardiss Kebriaei, senior attorney of the
Center for Constitutional Rights and a
specialist in targeted killings, said she was
concerned over what seemed to be an
attempt to justify the killing of children.
Kebriaei said: "This is one official quoted.
I don't know if that standard is
what they are using but the standard itself
is troubling."
The US is already facing criticism for using
the term term "military-aged male" to
justify targeted killings where the identities
of individuals are not known. Under the US
definition , all fighting-age males killed in
drone strikes are regarded as combatants
and not civilians, unless there is explicit
evidence to the contrary. This has the effect
of significantly reducing the official tally of
civilian deaths.
Kebriael said the definition was reportedly
being used in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen.
"Under the rules of law you can only target
civilians if they are directly participating in
hostilities. So, here, this standard of
presuming any military aged males in the
vicinity of a war zone are militants, already
goes beyond what the law allows.
"When you get to the suggestion that
children with potentially hostile intent may
be perceived to be legitimate targets is
deeply troubling and unlawful."
Children in conflict zones have additional
protections under the law.
Kebriael, who is counsel for CCR in a
lawsuit which seeks accountability for the
killing of three American citizens – including
a 16 year old boy – in US drone strikes in
Yemen last year, said that the piece also
raised questions over how those killed in
that incident were counted. "Were they
counted as military-aged males or were
they counted as children with potentially
hostile intent or were they counted as the
innocent bystanders they were?"
In a speech in April setting out the context
for the US programme of targeted killings,
White House counter-terrorism chief John
Brennan spoke about a threshold of
"significant threat', which was widely seen
as introducing a lower criteria than
"imminent threat".
Brennan said : "Even if it is lawful to pursue a specific member of al-Qaida, we ask
ourselves whether that individual's activities
rise to a certain threshold for action, and
whether taking action will, in fact, enhance
our security. For example, when considering
lethal force we ask ourselves whether the
individual poses a significant threat to US
interests. This is absolutely critical, and it
goes to the very essence of why we take
this kind of exceptional action."
An Isaf spokesman, Lt Col Jimmie
Cummings, told the Marine Corp Times that
insurgents continue to use children as
suicide bombers and IED emplacers, even
though Taliban leader Mullah Omar has
ordered them to stop harming civilians.
There have been more than 200 children
killed in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen by
the CIA and Joint Special Operating
Command, according to the Bureau of
Investigative Journalism.

Post it so you will know a bit about how muslim children are treated out there. While you are busy fighting here for them even quoting scholars' opinion about this and that, they kill our fellows muslims children without any consideration at all. Without media attention. Without condolences. Still wish to fight for them? Go on. Sign of the last hour is many fake muslims afterall. But clearly I won't waste my time anymore for this fruitless debate. If you want to keep supporting them, ones who have killed and hurt our fellow muslims, then Allah alone is enough as protector for those oppressed muslims you neglect.



"Whoever defends the honor of his brother
in absence has the right over Allah to be
freed from the Fire." (Saheeh, Ahmad, al-
Tabarani. Authenticated by Al-Albani in
Saheeh al-Jaami' (6240).)
 

Shak78

Junior Member
Nice so I am some fake muslim because I feel any innocent should be mourned...ok whatever. I can not stand self-righteous Muslims that think they are right and if you don't agree you are a fake muslim. No wonder the Ummah can't unite.
 

xAllahKnowsBestx

Junior Member
So I'm neglecting oppressed Muslims by caring about American children. My bad. I do believe I can care about Muslim and American children at the same time.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum

When we protect humanity we can´t delimit out some people because of things what some of they parents or fellow citizens have done (against Muslims). I don´t see discussions like this fruitless but very important to think such of matters. My opinion is that humanity and rightfull treatment belongs to all, not only to "us". I think that to kind of opinions like mine Islam has had a big part but also my working for human rights internationally.

May Allah give patience to those whose have lost they loved ones in this tragedy. And we should try to remember that we can´t know plans of Allah, only He knows. Some of those parents might be at one day your sisters and brothers in Islam. We should be ready everytimes show to them (and others whose are not yet find beauty of Islam) compassion and care when they have pain in they hearts - like they have now.
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
Let's not get down to personal attacks here, nor try to impose our views on others.

There are two issues on hand here.
1. the death of the children on this tragic incident
2. the reaction to this incident

1. death of the children and the incident itself was barbaric and evil. No body is happy nor should gloat over children dying. Islam teaches us compassion and as such we should pray for justice, and hope that the underlying cause of this attack and previous attacks be looked at, such as easy availability of guns, dangerous new drug medications being readily subscribed by doctors and supported by pharmaceutical companies for testing, and violence in games, movies and American culture that promotes and glorifies such a gun slinging lifestyle. Killing the shooter and make a celebrity out of him with all the sensational media hype to sell papers and then forget all about it as if nothing happened till next incident occurs won't solve any problems.

2. As for the reaction of the incident. This is not looking at the children in specific but rather the incident as whole. Whether one is saddened by this event or rejoices and prays more such events happen on those who rape and murder Muslim kids is a different story. Both are entitled to their views and both have their reasons. We shouldn't get into calling each other fake muslims for holding this or that view. Both sides have every right to hold their views, views that are shaped and formed by their environment and experiences.

Imagine this. just try it....

A mother of 5 is cooking dinner while her children are running around playing without a care in the world. her husband has been working outside all day to put food on the table. They are poor, they don't have much but what they have they make the most of it. They live a simple and happy life. The mother prepares the dinner and calls everyone to come and eat. The innocent beautiful children, the shining stars of her eyes, the joy of her heart, come running to eat. They wash their cute little hands and faces and sit down to eat. The husband who is tired and aching from a hard days work, comes and sits to eat with his beloved family. And the mother sits there so proud of her little ones, her heart filled with joy seeing them and the love and respect for her husband who works so hard for them, makes all her fatigue of the day disappears. As they say bismillah and thank Allah for their lives and happiness a bomb drops on their house. The mother crawls out of the rubble of the house, her hair all white with dust and clothes all dirty by the dirt, bruised and bleeding all over. She doesn't even pay attention to herself and fanatically starts looking around for her beloved little kids, the joy of her life and her beloved husband, her other half that helped complete her deen. She picks up and throws rocks aside one by one with her bare hands. Others watching are too afraid to come help her, even relatives wont' approach because Obama's drones always come around second time to bomb those who came to help. she finds her little angels, all bleeding and torn apart and yet so peacefully sleeping. She wails and cries holding them tightly in her arms as her world shatters and grief and despair takes over. She cries out loud for the longest time holding and kissing her little angels. She yells at the sky pleading for justice. She asks Allah to destroy all those who did this to her, she asks Allah take their children away, from every single one of those barbaric american monsters. Tomorrow this will repeat again with another mother and the same day after and the day after. She is just one among thousands of such mothers....

Who would dare call her a fake musilm? who would dare tell her how can she rejoice and pray for the death of children? Have they felt her pain? have they walked a mile in her shoes? it's easy to judge others from the comforts of our home, free from such hardship. It's easy to take the higher "moral" ground and label others. The world is not black and white.

I don't think there is any point of discussing this any further, we have two sides with two opposing view points. You won't changes yours and you can't change the others. Everyone is entitled to their views so let's just leave it at.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum

It is better if nobody doesn´t try to call anyone as fake muslim. We better let Allah only this kind of matters - He surely sees what we are in our hearts.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Assalamu alaikim

I think the sufferings of people are because of the same one I'll mentality that is ignoring the clear bright message :


قُلْ تَعَالَوْاْ أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَلاَّ تُشْرِكُواْ بِهِ شَيْئًا وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلاَدَكُم مِّنْ إمْلاَقٍ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ وَلاَ تَقْرَبُواْ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ





6:151 Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
:salam2:
May Allah soften our hearts for the worst of calamity is to have a hardened heart.
Our Lord is ArRahman The Most Merciful,our prophet was Rahmatullil 'aalameen (A mercy to the entire creation),our way is the way of mercy,if we do not have mercy in our hearts certainly we would perish.
[h=5][/h] Prophet :saw: was once hugging his beloved grandsons, Hasan and Husayn, when Aqrah bin Haabis told him, ‘I have got ten children. So far, I have not kissed any of them.’ Allaah’s Messenger
icon--1.gif
responded: “The one with no pity for others is not pitied.” [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]
According to another version, he said: “What can I do for you if Allaah has removed from you the feeling of compassion?” [At-Tirmithi]
 
Top