'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
By Sean Coughlan Education correspondent

What may be the world's oldest fragments of the Koran have been found by the University of Birmingham.
Radiocarbon dating found the manuscript to be at least 1,370 years old, making it among the earliest in existence.

The pages of the Muslim holy text had remained unrecognised in the university library for almost a century.

The British Library's expert on such manuscripts, Dr Muhammad Isa Waley, said this "exciting discovery" would make Muslims "rejoice".

The manuscript had been kept with a collection of other Middle Eastern books and documents, without being identified as one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the world.

Oldest texts

When a PhD researcher, Alba Fedeli, looked more closely at these pages it was decided to carry out a radiocarbon dating test and the results were "startling".

The university's director of special collections, Susan Worrall, said researchers had not expected "in our wildest dreams" that it would be so old.

"Finding out we had one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the whole world has been fantastically exciting."

_84426217_composite2.jpg


The fragments were written on sheep or goat skin

The tests, carried out by the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, showed that the fragments, written on sheep or goat skin, were among the very oldest surviving texts of the Koran.

These tests provide a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.

The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad... he would maybe have heard him preach

Prof David Thomas, University of Birmingham

"They could well take us back to within a few years of the actual founding of Islam," said David Thomas, the university's professor of Christianity and Islam.

"According to Muslim tradition, the Prophet Muhammad received the revelations that form the Koran, the scripture of Islam, between the years 610 and 632, the year of his death."

The fragments of the Koran are still legible:

_84297104_koranbirmingham624.jpg


Prof Thomas says the dating of the Birmingham folios would mean it was quite possible that the person who had written them would have been alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

"The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad. He would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach. He may have known him personally - and that really is quite a thought to conjure with," he says.

First-hand witness


Prof Thomas says that some of the passages of the Koran were written down on parchment, stone, palm leaves and the shoulder blades of camels - and a final version, collected in book form, was completed in about 650.

Prof Thomas says the writer of this manuscript could have heard the Prophet Muhammad preach

He says that "the parts of the Koran that are written on this parchment can, with a degree of confidence, be dated to less than two decades after Muhammad's death".

"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Koran read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone little or no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."

The manuscript, written in "Hijazi script", an early form of written Arabic, becomes one of the oldest known fragments of the Koran.

Because radiocarbon dating creates a range of possible ages, there is a handful of other manuscripts in public and private collections which overlap. So this makes it impossible to say that any is definitively the oldest.

But the latest possible date of the Birmingham discovery - 645 - would put it among the very oldest.

'Precious survivor'

Dr Waley, curator for such manuscripts at the British Library, said "these two folios, in a beautiful and surprisingly legible Hijazi hand, almost certainly date from the time of the first three caliphs".

The first three caliphs were leaders in the Muslim community between about 632 and 656.

Dr Waley says that under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, copies of the "definitive edition" were distributed.

Muhammad Afzal of Birmingham Central Mosque said he was very moved to see the manuscript.

"The Muslim community was not wealthy enough to stockpile animal skins for decades, and to produce a complete Mushaf, or copy, of the Holy Koran required a great many of them."

Dr Waley suggests that the manuscript found by Birmingham is a "precious survivor" of a copy from that era or could be even earlier.

"In any case, this - along with the sheer beauty of the content and the surprisingly clear Hijazi script - is news to rejoice Muslim hearts."

The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

The Koran

Muslims believe the words of the Koran were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad by the angel Gabriel over 22 years from 610

It was not until 1734 that a translation was made into English, but was littered with mistakes
Copies of the holy text were issued to British Indian soldiers fighting in the First World War
On 6 October 1930, words from the Koran were broadcast on British radio for the first time, in a BBC programme called The Sphinx

The local Muslim community has already expressed its delight at the discovery in their city and the university says the manuscript will be put on public display.

"When I saw these pages I was very moved. There were tears of joy and emotion in my eyes. And I'm sure people from all over the UK will come to Birmingham to have a glimpse of these pages," said Muhammad Afzal, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque.

The university says the Koran fragments will go on display in the Barber Institute in Birmingham in October.
Prof Thomas says it will show people in Birmingham that they have a "treasure that is second to none".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021 (there are additional media content/videos in the link)

2nd picture shows verses 1-8 of Surah Taha
1st pic shows the whole page spread with above Surah Taha verses bottom half left
Surah Maryam end above that
Surah Taha then seems to continue on the right hand page.
ie pages go from right to left.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
assalamu alaykum

Amazing and perhaps best news in a long time! The national and regional news has been talking about the Qur'an the whole day! alhamdulillah
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Yes, specially this sounds amazing:

"The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad. He would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach. He may have known him personally - and that really is quite a thought to conjure with,"
 

Cariad

Junior Member
It sounds a very exciting find. To lay undiscovered all the years. I wonder when it will be on display for the public.
 

cabdixakim

Junior Member
post:634618 said:
By Coughlan Education correspondent

What may be the world's oldest fragments of the Koran have been found by the University of Birmingham.
Radiocarbon dating found the manuscript to be at least 1,370 years old, making it among the earliest in existence.

The pages of the Muslim holy text had remained unrecognised in the university library for almost a century.

The British Library's expert on such manuscripts, Dr Muhammad Isa Waley, said this "exciting discovery" would make Muslims "rejoice".

The manuscript had been kept with a collection of other Middle Eastern books and documents, without being identified as one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the world.

Oldest texts

When a PhD researcher, Alba Fedeli, looked more closely at these pages it was decided to carry out a radiocarbon dating test and the results were "startling".

The university's director of special collections, Susan Worrall, said researchers had not expected "in our wildest dreams" that it would be so old.

"Finding out we had one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the whole world has been fantastically exciting."

_84426217_composite2.jpg


The fragments were written on sheep or goat skin

The tests, carried out by the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, showed that the fragments, written on sheep or goat skin, were among the very oldest surviving texts of the Koran.

These tests provide a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.

The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad... he would maybe have heard him preach

Prof David Thomas, University of Birmingham

"They could well take us back to within a few years of the actual founding of Islam," said David Thomas, the university's professor of Christianity and Islam.

"According to Muslim tradition, the Prophet Muhammad received the revelations that form the Koran, the scripture of Islam, between the years 610 and 632, the year of his death."

The fragments of the Koran are still legible:

_84297104_koranbirmingham624.jpg


Prof Thomas says the dating of the Birmingham folios would mean it was quite possible that the person who had written them would have been alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

"The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad. He would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach. He may have known him personally - and that really is quite a thought to conjure with," he says.

First-hand witness


Prof Thomas says that some of the passages of the Koran were written down on parchment, stone, palm leaves and the shoulder blades of camels - and a final version, collected in book form, was completed in about 650.

Prof Thomas says the writer of this manuscript could have heard the Prophet Muhammad preach

He says that "the parts of the Koran that are written on this parchment can, with a degree of confidence, be dated to less than two decades after Muhammad's death".

"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Koran read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone little or no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."

The manuscript, written in "Hijazi script", an early form of written Arabic, becomes one of the oldest known fragments of the Koran.

Because radiocarbon dating creates a range of possible ages, there is a handful of other manuscripts in public and private collections which overlap. So this makes it impossible to say that any is definitively the oldest.

But the latest possible date of the Birmingham discovery - 645 - would put it among the very oldest.

'Precious survivor'

Dr Waley, curator for such manuscripts at the British Library, said "these two folios, in a beautiful and surprisingly legible Hijazi hand, almost certainly date from the time of the first three caliphs".

The first three caliphs were leaders in the Muslim community between about 632 and 656.

Dr Waley says that under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, copies of the "definitive edition" were distributed.

Muhammad Afzal of Birmingham Central Mosque said he was very moved to see the manuscript.

"The Muslim community was not wealthy enough to stockpile animal skins for decades, and to produce a complete Mushaf, or copy, of the Holy Koran required a great many of them."

Dr Waley suggests that the manuscript found by Birmingham is a "precious survivor" of a copy from that era or could be even earlier.

"In any case, this - along with the sheer beauty of the content and the surprisingly clear Hijazi script - is news to rejoice Muslim hearts."

The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

The Koran

Muslims believe the words of the Koran were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad by the angel Gabriel over 22 years from 610

It was not until 1734 that a translation was made into English, but was littered with mistakes
Copies of the holy text were issued to British Indian soldiers fighting in the First World War
On 6 October 1930, words from the Koran were broadcast on British radio for the first time, in a BBC programme called The Sphinx

The local Muslim community has already expressed its delight at the discovery in their city and the university says the manuscript will be put on public display.

"When I saw these pages I was very moved. There were tears of joy and emotion in my eyes. And I'm sure people from all over the UK will come to Birmingham to have a glimpse of these pages," said Muhammad Afzal, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque.

The university says the Koran fragments will go on display in the Barber Institute in Birmingham in October.
Prof Thomas says it will show people in Birmingham that they have a "treasure that is second to none".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021 (there are additional media content/videos in the link)

2nd picture shows verses 1-8 of Surah Taha
1st pic shows the whole page spread with above Surah Taha verses bottom half left
Surah Maryam end above that
Surah Taha then seems to continue on the right hand page.
ie pages go from right to left.


I've been very much suspicious about this from the first day I've seen it else where... One pessimisstic theory of mine is that: they'll one day make another fragment that deceives the carbon dating to that same era of this newly found manuscript but only this time that fragment will contain verses that go against the core teachings of Islam(that's the worst possible they can do but it can easily be dealt with by the muslims) and the least they may come up with is slight differences between that fragment which they claim to be from the Original manuscript with the current Mus'haf and thus conclude that the Quran has been interfered with over time. And Just as we cherished this one so must we that other false one unless we intend to be labelled as hypocrites who are never for the truth... I mean can the carbon dating method ever be deceived? If yes then I've every right to stay doubtful about this!

I suspect how it remained hidden all those years and the place it's found... from 192Os , that's along time to stay unfound in the UK!... and I hate the fact that it is still not handed over to the muslim scientsts for further and finer researches(or that already did happen?)...I doubt this finding( it may be accurate finding but I doubt its purpose and intentions) and no one can blame me for not celebrating it I hope :)
 
Last edited:

Abu Juwairiya

Junior Member
Irrespective of the age of this manuscript; the fact remains the Qur'an exists and we should focus on the contents of what is within it rather than on losing focus on the attention being given on individual copies. It is all well and good for Muslims to rejoice and be joyful over discoveries of ancient copies; but it is not as important as following its dictates, maxims, edicts, recommendations and doctrines inside it.

This is especially important since Muslims believe one Qur'an is the same as any other and there are no different versions. If there is any rejoicing worth performing then it should be based on the knowledge we are adhering to what Allah expects of us and has legislated for us to follow and practise as Muslims.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
I've been very much suspicious about this from the first day I've seen it else where... One pessimisstic theory of mine is that: they'll one day make another fragment that deceives the carbon dating to that same era of this newly found manuscript but only this time that fragment will contain verses that go against the core teachings of Islam(that's the worst possible they can do but it can easily be dealt with by the muslims) and the least they may come up with is slight differences between that fragment which they claim to be from the Original manuscript with the current Mus'haf and thus conclude that the Quran has been interfered with over time. And Just as we cherished this one so must we that other false one unless we intend to be labelled as hypocrites who are never for the truth... I mean can the carbon dating method ever be deceived? If yes then I've every right to stay doubtful about this!

I suspect how it remained hidden all those years and the place it's found... from 192Os , that's along time to stay unfound in the UK!... and I hate the fact that it is still not handed over to the muslim scientsts for further and finer researches(or that already did happen?)...I doubt this finding( it may be accurate finding but I doubt its purpose and intentions) and no one can blame me for not celebrating it I hope :)

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. Those are some good points! They found so called old manuscripts of Quran in Yemen, they claimed it was different, but it was washed out or overwritten. There could be any number of reasons, the obvious one is that someone had bad memorisation!

Any Muslim or person who has studied Islam thoroughly, would know the source of the Quran must be the same and protected for the exact same Quranic verses to be memorised by millions of people and used in 10,000s classical Islamic texts stretching back 1400 years.
 

cabdixakim

Junior Member
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. Those are some good points! They found so called old manuscripts of Quran in Yemen, they claimed it was different, but it was washed out or overwritten. There could be any number of reasons, the obvious one is that someone had bad memorisation!

Any Muslim or person who has studied Islam thoroughly, would know the source of the Quran must be the same and protected for the exact same Quranic verses to be memorised by millions of people and used in 10,000s classical Islamic texts stretching back 1400 years.

Wacaleykumas'salaam waraxmatul'Lahi wabarakatuh brother
 

usman260

Member
By Sean Coughlan Education correspondent

What may be the world's oldest fragments of the Koran have been found by the University of Birmingham.
Radiocarbon dating found the manuscript to be at least 1,370 years old, making it among the earliest in existence.

The pages of the Muslim holy text had remained unrecognised in the university library for almost a century.

The British Library's expert on such manuscripts, Dr Muhammad Isa Waley, said this "exciting discovery" would make Muslims "rejoice".

The manuscript had been kept with a collection of other Middle Eastern books and documents, without being identified as one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the world.

Oldest texts

When a PhD researcher, Alba Fedeli, looked more closely at these pages it was decided to carry out a radiocarbon dating test and the results were "startling".

The university's director of special collections, Susan Worrall, said researchers had not expected "in our wildest dreams" that it would be so old.

"Finding out we had one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the whole world has been fantastically exciting."

_84426217_composite2.jpg


The fragments were written on sheep or goat skin

The tests, carried out by the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, showed that the fragments, written on sheep or goat skin, were among the very oldest surviving texts of the Koran.

These tests provide a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.

The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad... he would maybe have heard him preach

Prof David Thomas, University of Birmingham

"They could well take us back to within a few years of the actual founding of Islam," said David Thomas, the university's professor of Christianity and Islam.

"According to Muslim tradition, the Prophet Muhammad received the revelations that form the Koran, the scripture of Islam, between the years 610 and 632, the year of his death."

The fragments of the Koran are still legible:

_84297104_koranbirmingham624.jpg


Prof Thomas says the dating of the Birmingham folios would mean it was quite possible that the person who had written them would have been alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

"The person who actually wrote it could well have known the Prophet Muhammad. He would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach. He may have known him personally - and that really is quite a thought to conjure with," he says.

First-hand witness


Prof Thomas says that some of the passages of the Koran were written down on parchment, stone, palm leaves and the shoulder blades of camels - and a final version, collected in book form, was completed in about 650.

Prof Thomas says the writer of this manuscript could have heard the Prophet Muhammad preach

He says that "the parts of the Koran that are written on this parchment can, with a degree of confidence, be dated to less than two decades after Muhammad's death".

"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Koran read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone little or no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."

The manuscript, written in "Hijazi script", an early form of written Arabic, becomes one of the oldest known fragments of the Koran.

Because radiocarbon dating creates a range of possible ages, there is a handful of other manuscripts in public and private collections which overlap. So this makes it impossible to say that any is definitively the oldest.

But the latest possible date of the Birmingham discovery - 645 - would put it among the very oldest.

'Precious survivor'

Dr Waley, curator for such manuscripts at the British Library, said "these two folios, in a beautiful and surprisingly legible Hijazi hand, almost certainly date from the time of the first three caliphs".

The first three caliphs were leaders in the Muslim community between about 632 and 656.

Dr Waley says that under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, copies of the "definitive edition" were distributed.

Muhammad Afzal of Birmingham Central Mosque said he was very moved to see the manuscript.

"The Muslim community was not wealthy enough to stockpile animal skins for decades, and to produce a complete Mushaf, or copy, of the Holy Koran required a great many of them."

Dr Waley suggests that the manuscript found by Birmingham is a "precious survivor" of a copy from that era or could be even earlier.

"In any case, this - along with the sheer beauty of the content and the surprisingly clear Hijazi script - is news to rejoice Muslim hearts."

The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

The Koran

Muslims believe the words of the Koran were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad by the angel Gabriel over 22 years from 610

It was not until 1734 that a translation was made into English, but was littered with mistakes
Copies of the holy text were issued to British Indian soldiers fighting in the First World War
On 6 October 1930, words from the Koran were broadcast on British radio for the first time, in a BBC programme called The Sphinx

The local Muslim community has already expressed its delight at the discovery in their city and the university says the manuscript will be put on public display.

"When I saw these pages I was very moved. There were tears of joy and emotion in my eyes. And I'm sure people from all over the UK will come to Birmingham to have a glimpse of these pages," said Muhammad Afzal, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque.

The university says the Koran fragments will go on display in the Barber Institute in Birmingham in October.
Prof Thomas says it will show people in Birmingham that they have a "treasure that is second to none".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021 (there are additional media content/videos in the link)

2nd picture shows verses 1-8 of Surah Taha
1st pic shows the whole page spread with above Surah Taha verses bottom half left
Surah Maryam end above that
Surah Taha then seems to continue on the right hand page.
ie pages go from right to left.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
The manuscript has now gone on display.

'Global treasure' Koran fragments on display in Birmingham

_85867511_quran010.jpg


Fragments of a Koran believed to be one of the oldest ever found have gone on public display in Birmingham.

The University of Birmingham announced its discovery in July and revealed the manuscript is at least 1,370 years old.

Susan Worrall, from the university, described the manuscript as being "a global treasure".

It is on display at the university's Edgbaston campus until 25 October and tickets are free.

The pages of the Muslim holy text had remained unrecognised in the university library for almost a century, the library said.

One visitor said: "This manuscript could have been handled by the Prophet Muhammad or the best men in our religion... I am just standing next to it - it is really amazing."

"Finding out we had one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the whole world has been fantastically exciting," said Ms Worrall, who is director of special collections.

Birmingham's Muslim community leaders have expressed their delight at the discovery.

Muhammad Afzal, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque, said: "When I saw these pages I was very moved.

"There were tears of joy and emotion in my eyes.

"And I'm sure people from all over the UK will come to Birmingham to have a glimpse of these pages."

It was discovered by PhD researcher, Alba Fedeli, who decided to carry out a radiocarbon dating test.

The tests provided a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.

"They could well take us back to within a few years of the actual founding of Islam," said David Thomas, the university's professor of Christianity and Islam.

"According to Muslim tradition, the Prophet Muhammad received the revelations that form the Koran, the scripture of Islam, between the years 610 and 632, the year of his death," he said.

The manuscript, written in Hijazi script, an early form of written Arabic, has become one of the oldest known fragments of the Koran.
___________________________________

'Hushed and reverential'

At the scene: Amy Coles, BBC Midlands Today

_85874271_de01.jpg


About 2,000 tickets to see the scripts have been taken up and the university expects a lot more to be used before the exhibition ends.

The display area was relatively busy but the tickets are timed so people can get to spend time at the display. I would say there are about ten people in at a time.

The atmosphere is quite hushed and reverential - it seems to be quite an emotional experience for some people.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-34422024
 
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