Allahu Akbar! Pure sincerity

a_stranger

Junior Member
How can our hearts attain pure sincerity ?
Sincerity can be attained when we know with certainty that our Creator , our originator is one absolutely one , with no partner , no equal :

1. Say (O Muhammad (
saws.gif
)): "He is Allah, (the) One.

2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).

3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;

4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

Surat AlIkhlas Quran
 

Cariad

Junior Member
I never understand this... When it said God is one and has no partner or equal. Eats or drinks..begets or is begotten.. And nothing like God.

Who would ever believe otherwise? Why does it even need saying?
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Well, I am not sure but I think it´s like to separate Allah from the pre-islamic deities, to which people might gave different kind of human characteristics and tell that the god of Islam isn´t similar like people were thinking that they were.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
Well, I am not sure but I think it´s like to separate Allah from the pre-islamic deities, to which people might gave different kind of human characteristics and tell that the god of Islam isn´t similar like people were thinking that they were.
This makes sense to me, if you mean (pre islamic) pagan deities. Because they had multiple gods. I have always thought this is more logical as Jews and Christians always knew and understood God to be one, without need of anything like partners or family. When I read the Qur'an I get this idea about it meant for pagans, as there were lots of pagan worship in Arabia at the time of your Prophet.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
This makes sense to me, if you mean (pre islamic) pagan deities. Because they had multiple gods. I have always thought this is more logical as Jews and Christians always knew and understood God to be one, without need of anything like partners or family. When I read the Qur'an I get this idea about it meant for pagans, as there were lots of pagan worship in Arabia at the time of your Prophet.

It can also refers to the trinity in Christianity. ;) Propably there can be found some explanation for this verse...
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Peace for all:

Since our creator does not look to our shapes or colors or clothes but to our hearts , Quran made it very clear how to direct hearts of people to God : Allah with pure perfect sincerity :
Please read :

62. Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Wakil (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian, etc.) over all things.

63. To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth. And those who disbelieve in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, such are they who will be the losers.

64. Say (O Muhammad
saws.gif
to the polytheists, etc.): "Do you order me to worship other than Allah O you fools ?"

65. And indeed it has been revealed to you (O Muhammad
saws.gif
), as it was to those (Allah's Messengers) before you: "If you join others in worship with Allah, (then) surely (all) your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers."

66. Nay! But worship Allah (Alone and none else), and be among the grateful.

Quran Surat AlZummar.

Allah is the creator : everything else is his creation . This clear bright knowledge brings sincerity and purity to hearts of people . It cancels all the misconceptions that gathered in hearts through centuries after prophet Issa alaihi alsalam , Moses alaihi alsalam, and all the prophets who taught sincerity but satan and ignorant people changed the original message and put impurity in the pure hearts then hearts were directed to the creatures instead of the one true creator. The. Oneness of God is a must for true sincerity otherwise hearts are scattered and spoiled .
 

Abu Juwairiya

Junior Member
In the Commentary of the Qur'an, the classical scholar, Ibn Kathir, interpreted the above verses by saying-

"The idol worshippers asked the Prophet (SAW) about the lineage of God, so Allah revealed,

'Say He is Allah, the One. Allah. He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none comparable to Him.'

The word (Al Ahad meaning 'The One') cannot be used for anyone in affirmation except Allah, because He is Perfect in all His Attributes.

He also said, 'He is the One, the Singular, Who has no peer, no assistant, no rival, no equal and none comparable to Him'

He added 'As-Samad' [another of the Arabic words in the verse] is 'One Who does not give birth, nor was He born, because there is nothing that dies except that it leaves behind inheritance.'

'Allah As-Samad' means the One Who all creation depends on for their needs and their requests.'

'[As-Samad also means] He is the Master Whose control is Complete.'

He further explained [about the meaning of this word], 'He is the Master Who is Perfect in His Sovereignty, the Most Noble Who is Perfect in His Nobility, the Most Magnificent in His Magnificence, The Most Forbearing Who is Perfect in His Forbearance, the Most Wise Who is Perfect in His Wisdom. He is the One Who is Perfect in all aspects of Nobility and Authority....These attributes are not befitting anyone other than Him.'

'He begets not, nor was He begotten'

meaning He does not have a child, parent or spouse.

'There is none comparable to Him'

The scholar continued, 'This means that there is none similar to Him, none equal to Him and there is nothing at all like Him'.

He concluded by saying, 'He owns everything and He created everything. So how can He have a peer among His creatures who can be equal to Him, or a relative who can resemble Him. Glorified, Exalted and far removed is Allah from such a thing." (Source Ibn Kathir, Vol. 10, Pages 628, 634-5)
 

P-Thulhu

Junior Member
*Raises hand*

Well.. technically the deity kind of has begotten, hasn't it?

Since, by the beliefs, everything thing that is... is begotten from said deity....

Hence, we are all said deity's produce.

;)
 

Cariad

Junior Member
In the Commentary of the Qur'an, the classical scholar, Ibn Kathir, interpreted the above verses by saying-

"The idol worshippers asked the Prophet (SAW) about the lineage of God, so Allah revealed,

'Say He is Allah, the One. Allah. He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none comparable to Him.'

So your prophet was addressing idol worshippers here? Does the Qur'an or your prophet Mohammed say christians were idol worshippers?

The word (Al Ahad meaning 'The One') cannot be used for anyone in affirmation except Allah, because He is Perfect in all His Attributes.

He also said, 'He is the One, the Singular, Who has no peer, no assistant, no rival, no equal and none comparable to Him'

He added 'As-Samad' [another of the Arabic words in the verse] is 'One Who does not give birth, nor was He born, because there is nothing that dies except that it leaves behind inheritance.'

Same as YHWH is seen in Bible.

'Allah As-Samad' means the One Who all creation depends on for their needs and their requests.'

'[As-Samad also means] He is the Master Whose control is Complete.'

He further explained [about the meaning of this word], 'He is the Master Who is Perfect in His Sovereignty, the Most Noble Who is Perfect in His Nobility, the Most Magnificent in His Magnificence, The Most Forbearing Who is Perfect in His Forbearance, the Most Wise Who is Perfect in His Wisdom. He is the One Who is Perfect in all aspects of Nobility and Authority....These attributes are not befitting anyone other than Him.'

Same as attributed to YHWH in the Bible.

'He begets not, nor was He begotten'

meaning He does not have a child, parent or spouse.

If a christian or Jew would think such a thing of God then it is blasphemy of the worst kind. :( thankfully we do not think such thing.

'There is none comparable to Him'

The scholar continued, 'This means that there is none similar to Him, none equal to Him and there is nothing at all like Him'.

Obviously none is comparable to God, which is clear in the Bible and as all believers knew this truth... Then why was it said again in Qur'an. For pagans of Arabia? For whom prophet Mohammed was sent? Maybe.

, He concluded by saying, 'He owns everything and He created everything. So how can He have a peer among His creatures who can be equal to Him, or a relative who can resemble Him. Glorified, Exalted and far removed is Allah from such a thing." (Source Ibn Kathir, Vol. 10, Pages 628, 634-5)

YHWH (God of Abraham et al) has no peer. Maybe pagans thought their gods did have "relatives". Seems logical, which makes me wonder when it was muslims first started to apply these verses to christians and using insulting terms as polytheists. :(
 

Cariad

Junior Member
*Raises hand*

Well.. technically the deity kind of has begotten, hasn't it?

Since, by the beliefs, everything thing that is... is begotten from said deity....

Hence, we are all said deity's produce.

;)
But I think in islam the word "begotten" is understood as in human terms as like act of procreation. So obviously that is not possible to ascribe to God. .. Blasphemy. But I see how all creation is reflected to some extent in the creator. In fact, YHWH demonstrates such.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
How so sister Herb? The trinity in christianity is not how Islam explains it to be.

I think that´s different thing how Christianity see that what the trinity is and how Islam sees it is. We have two different views as both see it by the different perspectives. The thing if it is same to both, is the other thing then. Seems it´s not.

Hopely you understood the meaning. I´m not sure how to explain this idea clearly...
 

P-Thulhu

Junior Member
But I think in islam the word "begotten" is understood as in human terms as like act of procreation. So obviously that is not possible to ascribe to God. .. Blasphemy. But I see how all creation is reflected to some extent in the creator. In fact, YHWH demonstrates such.

But.. 'Procreation' is still bringing something 'New' into a space where before there was 'nothing'....?

No?

Not wanting to become to serious after what was meant to be a 'Light hearted' post.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
I think that´s different thing how Christianity see that what the trinity is and how Islam sees it is. We have two different views as both see it by the different perspectives. The thing if it is same to both, is the other thing then. Seems it´s not.

Hopely you understood the meaning. I´m not sure how to explain this idea clearly...
I'm not sure I get what you mean Sister, all I know is the trinity is what it is and is found in Bible teachings.. It is not how it is described in Qur'an. Or where do muslims get the idea that the trinity is like three gods or partners of God, if not the Qur'an? And for sure many muslims are calling christians polytheists, which means as I understand worship many gods. Maybe these muslims misunderstand their own Holy book. When I read it seems to me it was meant for pagan polytheists in Arabia at that time.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
But.. 'Procreation' is still bringing something 'New' into a space where before there was 'nothing'....?

No?

Not wanting to become to serious after what was meant to be a 'Light hearted' post.

Yes, Procreation is bringing something new into being. This is how christians see God is like a "part" of creation. Islam says I think God is apart from His creation, as I understand I think that's so. But it does not makes sense to me that God is not part of His creation, otherwise why create at all? Like we are created to just worship God? That does not work. God is not like narcissist, needing our worship as God has no needs.

The Bible shows God is reflected within His creation, and ALL creation is to the glory of God. Procreation is in itself a miracle, not just human but ALL life, animal.. plant. It's is the miracle of creation in perpetuation which reflects to the Glory of God as supreme creator. Gods ways are not our ways and in that aspect I agree with Islam that God is above all creation, though I do not see it explains why. When the Qur'an says God does not need a "son" well of course this is so as God has no need, Yeshua was "Son" for our need not for God. It implies procreation in a way as God has ascribed for mankind, we know God is above such needs.

I know you do not want serious thinking on this, but you raised a point I wished to explain my thoughts in reply. But blasphemy .. it is not light hearted matter :D although I think you did not mean it.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
But sister Is it logical that the creator was created?
Islam give a very definite sharp knoweldge who is the creator ? And his noble high perfect arrtibutes ......which we can never imagine but learn about through pondering in his creation. The more we ponder and pray the more we come closer.
 

Cariad

Junior Member
But sister Is it logical that the creator was created?
Islam give a very definite sharp knoweldge who is the creator ? And his noble high perfect arrtibutes ......which we can never imagine but learn about through pondering in his creation. The more we ponder and pray the more we come closer.
Of course the Creator cannot be created. Christians do not believe God is created. :)

Difference I see is like Islam is searching for relationship with God ... and Christianity is like God showing us how we are to have relationship with Him. Two important things I believe is love and sin. All other attributes come under shadow of Gods Holy love, like mercy, justice etc ... And all issues that separate us from this love is sin.. Which all comes from one thing disobedience to God. I think these two things are seen differently between our faith.
 

P-Thulhu

Junior Member
Yes, Procreation is bringing something new into being. This is how christians see God is like a "part" of creation. Islam says I think God is apart from His creation, as I understand I think that's so. But it does not makes sense to me that God is not part of His creation, otherwise why create at all? Like we are created to just worship God? That does not work. God is not like narcissist, needing our worship as God has no needs.

The Bible shows God is reflected within His creation, and ALL creation is to the glory of God. Procreation is in itself a miracle, not just human but ALL life, animal.. plant. It's is the miracle of creation in perpetuation which reflects to the Glory of God as supreme creator. Gods ways are not our ways and in that aspect I agree with Islam that God is above all creation, though I do not see it explains why. When the Qur'an says God does not need a "son" well of course this is so as God has no need, Yeshua was "Son" for our need not for God. It implies procreation in a way as God has ascribed for mankind, we know God is above such needs.

I know you do not want serious thinking on this, but you raised a point I wished to explain my thoughts in reply. But blasphemy .. it is not light hearted matter :D although I think you did not mean it.

SO, big reply to my reply. :)

Kind of starting from the back, forwards.

I am not sure how a non believer can, in themselves, blaspheme. Since... to the non believer it's not real. As in my personal view is that those who believe, while sincere in their beliefs, are acting along the lines as much as those so 'sincerely' believe (Or another term is 'Fandom-ish') of things such as Star Trek or Harry Potter.

My calling a deity a 'Poopy head' holds as much weight (Again from my out look at the world), as me calling Voldemort.. or Luke Skywalker a 'Poopy head'.

If said deity has no needs... then why bother said deity with worship? That point has lost me. Which kind of covers the first part of the reply as well.

Also... since the deity created everything... thence comes the problem of the deity creating both 'Good' and 'Bad' things.

I understand and am ' '-ing to separate good and bad since such terms are being spoken of from my human perspective.

Said deity created rainbows... and floods. Created trees and parasites.

None of those things are good or bad, they just are. We prefer rainbows to floods. We prefer trees to parasites. I'm guessing parasites prefer parasites to humans. :p

As a side note. I often find those who worship Allah (pbhn) who first give attributes to Allah (pbhn) and then turn around and have trouble understanding how such a deity could NOT be three things at once.

Is not the very essence of the deity to be effectively beyond the comprehension of people, hence being able to do incomprehensible things... such as being a 'Father' a 'Son' and a 'Holy Spirit' all at once?
 

Cariad

Junior Member
SO, big reply to my reply. :)

Kind of starting from the back, forwards.

I am not sure how a non believer can, in themselves, blaspheme. Since... to the non believer it's not real. As in my personal view is that those who believe, while sincere in their beliefs, are acting along the lines as much as those so 'sincerely' believe (Or another term is 'Fandom-ish') of things such as Star Trek or Harry Potter.

My calling a deity a 'Poopy head' holds as much weight (Again from my out look at the world), as me calling Voldemort.. or Luke Skywalker a 'Poopy head'.

Well.. For sure I am not known for few words.. ;) but it is the readers choice to read, respond or ignore. You respond.. Which then makes me feel that I should respond likewise... Then who knows we have a dialogue!!! :D

Of course for the non- believer such things as blasphemy against God means nothing. However, we cannot prove beyond doubt the existence of God and it is something we take (or not) on faith. Yet, if God does indeed exist and is creator of all then choosing not to believe does not in itself negate the sin of for example.. Blasphemy. Only the unbelievers acknowledgement of it. The possibility remains that one may have to answer for it before God. Then we get into another realm of would God hold someone responsible for such a sin if the person did not or chose not to see it as sin.

If said deity has no needs... then why bother said deity with worship? That point has lost me. Which kind of covers the first part of the reply as well.

Need is not the same as want is it. I may want chocolate but I do not need it. :) Worship is “to give honour, homage, reverence, respect, adoration, praise, or glory to a superior being.” God wishes us to worship Him because He and He alone is worthy of it. He is the only being that truly deserves worship. He requests that we acknowledge His greatness, His power, and His glory.
God expects us to worship Him as an expression of reverence and thanksgiving to Him. He wants not only for us to love Him.. He wants us to act justly toward each other, to show love and compassion to others. This glorifies God. When we worship with an obedient heart and an open and repentant spirit, God is glorified. It's like if someone does you a great service are you not thankful to that person? Would you wish to honour or acknowledge that service in return? For the believer, who sees all we have and all we are and can hope to be comes from our creator we know as God, then we feel justified in honouring God for that. There is no compulsion placed upon us. The rain falls on the unrighteous as it does the righteous. God created us out of love we worship Him out of love. For a believer it's simples.. Ya.

Also... since the deity created everything... thence comes the problem of the deity creating both 'Good' and 'Bad' things.

I understand and am ' '-ing to separate good and bad since such terms are being spoken of from my human perspective.

Said deity created rainbows... and floods. Created trees and parasites.

None of those things are good or bad, they just are. We prefer rainbows to floods. We prefer trees to parasites. I'm guessing parasites prefer parasites to humans. :p

What you mean by bad things? The parasite for example often has a part to play in the cycle of life. So is it bad? Or do we just consider it so. Floods... Even could be seen to some extent a product of our being, global warming, soil erosion through deforestation it could be said to be a consequence of mankind's greed and our not caring for the world as we were meant to do. There has to be balance, but for evil... is not a creation of God, but it exists in the "absence" of God in the same way that dark exists as the absence of light. Btw.. Did you know a rainbow is a sign of the covenant God made with Noah.. ;) from the believers perspective.. In this case ~ christian.

As a side note. I often find those who worship Allah (pbhn) who first give attributes to Allah (pbhn) and then turn around and have trouble understanding how such a deity could NOT be three things at once.

Is not the very essence of the deity to be effectively beyond the comprehension of people, hence being able to do incomprehensible things... such as being a 'Father' a 'Son' and a 'Holy Spirit' all at once?

Well, I kind of agree with what you say here. If God is the supreme deity then nothing is impossible for God. Angel Gabriel said that.. "For nothing is impossible with God" .. I believe the Qur'an portrays God as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent as the Bible does. So we really should not be applying our need for God to fit within the bounds of human logic. I would want a deity such as God, whom reveals Himself to be.. bigger and greater than that. We cannot hope to perceive God in all His glory in our sinful state.. Our time is not yet come.

Another long reply I fear. :)
 

P-Thulhu

Junior Member
Well.. For sure I am not known for few words.. ;) but it is the readers choice to read, respond or ignore. You respond.. Which then makes me feel that I should respond likewise... Then who knows we have a dialogue!!! :D

Of course for the non- believer such things as blasphemy against God means nothing. However, we cannot prove beyond doubt the existence of God and it is something we take (or not) on faith. Yet, if God does indeed exist and is creator of all then choosing not to believe does not in itself negate the sin of for example.. Blasphemy. Only the unbelievers acknowledgement of it. The possibility remains that one may have to answer for it before God. Then we get into another realm of would God hold someone responsible for such a sin if the person did not or chose not to see it as sin.



Need is not the same as want is it. I may want chocolate but I do not need it. :) Worship is “to give honour, homage, reverence, respect, adoration, praise, or glory to a superior being.” God wishes us to worship Him because He and He alone is worthy of it. He is the only being that truly deserves worship. He requests that we acknowledge His greatness, His power, and His glory.
God expects us to worship Him as an expression of reverence and thanksgiving to Him. He wants not only for us to love Him.. He wants us to act justly toward each other, to show love and compassion to others. This glorifies God. When we worship with an obedient heart and an open and repentant spirit, God is glorified. It's like if someone does you a great service are you not thankful to that person? Would you wish to honour or acknowledge that service in return? For the believer, who sees all we have and all we are and can hope to be comes from our creator we know as God, then we feel justified in honouring God for that. There is no compulsion placed upon us. The rain falls on the unrighteous as it does the righteous. God created us out of love we worship Him out of love. For a believer it's simples.. Ya.



What you mean by bad things? The parasite for example often has a part to play in the cycle of life. So is it bad? Or do we just consider it so. Floods... Even could be seen to some extent a product of our being, global warming, soil erosion through deforestation it could be said to be a consequence of mankind's greed and our not caring for the world as we were meant to do. There has to be balance, but for evil... is not a creation of God, but it exists in the "absence" of God in the same way that dark exists as the absence of light. Btw.. Did you know a rainbow is a sign of the covenant God made with Noah.. ;) from the believers perspective.. In this case ~ christian.



Well, I kind of agree with what you say here. If God is the supreme deity then nothing is impossible for God. Angel Gabriel said that.. "For nothing is impossible with God" .. I believe the Qur'an portrays God as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent as the Bible does. So we really should not be applying our need for God to fit within the bounds of human logic. I would want a deity such as God, whom reveals Himself to be.. bigger and greater than that. We cannot hope to perceive God in all His glory in our sinful state.. Our time is not yet come.

Another long reply I fear. :)
 
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