Two SERIOUS questions breaking my heart!!!

[abdallahbilal]

:salam2:
I respect and honor all those who follow the way of the prophet, regardless of the labels.

I know we as Muslims should "submit" in matters of God's description and not debate how they are or imagine them as physical nor deny them, and most importantly not philosophize them.

But I have two very serious question that troubled and broke my heart for a long time, and I don't know who to ask:

1) Som Sunnis (especially Asharis [الأشاعرة]) accuse Salafis that they are Mushabbiha and Mujassima (مشبهة و مجسمة), i.e., Salafis, according to the accusers, take statements that "God walks" and "God's hand" and "God on the throne" literally, and accuse them also that, at the same time, they claim they are not Mushabbiha or Mujassima. Do Salafis really take the descriptions of God swt literally and physically or is this just a rumor to defame Salafis?

2) Do Salafis cosider the Umma astray, especially that almost 80%* of the Sunnis [أهل السنة و الجماعة] are Asharis [الأشاعرة]?

*the pecentage above is only an estimation based on speculation, no statistics.


Salams,

 

[Bluegazer]

Assalamu Alaikum brother abdallahbilal,


The following is a religious opinion fatwa by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen. It was posted on the site supervized by Sheikh Muhammd Salih Al-Munajjid. It's an answer to question no. 10693 [Learning from Ash’ari shaykhs]. It shows how Ash’aris define God Almighty's Attributes:

Question:

We are students who are seeking knowledge. We study ‘aqeedah with some teachers who are teaching us Ash’ari ‘aqeedah. They interpret the hand of Allaah as meaning His power or His blessing, and His being above His throne (istiwaa’) as meaning His sovereignty, and so on. What is the ruling on studying with these teachers?


Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

These people who interpret the Qur’aan in this manner, whether they are called Ash’aris or some other name, have gone astray from the path of the righteous salaf. Not even one letter of what these people say in their misinterpretations has been narrated from the righteous salaf. Let them bring one word from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or from Abu Bakr, or ‘Umar, or ‘Uthmaan, or ‘Ali, to say that they interpreted Allaah’s hand as meaning His power, or that they interpreted His being above the Throne (istiwaa’) as referring to His Sovereignty, or that they interpreted His Face as meaning reward, or that they interpreted His love as meaning reward, etc. Let them produce one word from them to show that they interpreted these aayahs and similar verses in the manner that these people interpret them. If they cannot produce any such thing, let it be said that either the righteous salaf, headed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the leader of the pious, were unaware of the meaning of this tremendous ‘aqeedah (of Islam), or they did know it but they concealed the truth. But neither of these can be said of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or of any of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs, or of his Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). If that is the case then we have to follow their path (the path of the Prophet and the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs).

My advice to these people is to fear Allaah and to abandon what So and so said, and to come back to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and the way of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs who came after him. They should know that there will come a Day when they will return to Allaah, when they will not be able to use the opinion of So and so as evidence. By Allaah, So and so will not be able to help them on that Day. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) the Day (Allaah) will call to them, and say: ‘What answer gave you to the Messengers?’”

[al-Qasas 28:65]

He did not say, Remember the Day when (Allaah) will call to them and say, ‘What answer gave you to So and so…?’

And Allaah says in His Book (interpretation of the meaning):

“So believe in Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad), who believes in Allaah and His Words, and follow him so that you may be guided”

[al-A’raaf 7:158]

Allaah commanded us to believe in him and follow him. If this is the case then how can a person believe in Allaah and His Messenger in the true and complete sense, then turn away from the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the way in which he believed in his Lord, and misinterpret the way in which Allaah has described Himself in His Book or the way in which His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has described Him, simply because of illusions which they call rational thought?

I advise them to come back to Allaah and to abandon any other opinion, and follow what Allaah and His Messenger say, for if they die following that they will have died following the truth. But if they go against that then they are in grave danger and those whose opinions they are following will not protect them from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(Remember) the Day when every person will come up pleading for himself, and every one will be paid in full for what he did (good or evil, belief or disbelief in the life of this world) and they will not be dealt with unjustly”

[al-Nahl 16:111]

I repeat this advice to every believer, to come back to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with regard to what he believes about his Lord and God, following the path of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the rightly guided khaleefahs who came after him, and the imams of the Muslims who led the people in following the Sunnah of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), without referring to rational thought, which is no more than an illusion, concerning issue that have to do with Allaah and His names and attributes. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah spoke well when he described the ahl al-kalaam (“Islamic” philosophers) as “having been given intelligence but not knowledge, and had having been given smartness but not sincerity.” So one has to deepen one’s knowledge on the basis of the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). I ask Allaah to help us all to have faith and to cause us to meet Him when He is pleased with us, for He is Able to do all things. Praise be to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds, and may Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

I call upon all seekers of knowledge to call their brothers to that which they have heard, for by Allaah it is the truth. Whoever claims to have truth other than this, we will accept it and adhere to it (if it can be proven to be true).



From Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, Kitaab al-‘Ilm, p. 226

Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=10693&ln=eng



The following is a religious opinion [fatwa] of Sheikh Muhammad SalihAl-Munajjid. It's his answer to question no. 10243 [Commentary on the verse “so wherever you turn (yourselves or your faces) there is the Face of Allaah]:

Question:

Could you explain the following ayaah? If Allah is above the heavens, why is Allah face there wherever you face?
I am only asking this because I was explaining that Allah was above the heavens to somebody, and he qouted this ayah; I could not respond to him after that.
Al-Baqarah - 2:115
And to Allâh belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allâh (and He is High above, over His Throne). Surely! Allâh
is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knowing.


Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

We are obliged to believe that Allaah has risen above His throne in a manner that befits His majesty, not in a manner that resembles human movement, and to believe that Allaah has a Face that is not like the faces of His creation.

So we should not go astray when interpreting verses and we must not distort their meanings; we should follow the views of the righteous salaf concerning that.

With regard to the tafseer (commentary) on this verse, Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

If you ask whether every mention of the wajh (face) with reference to Allaah means the Face of Allaah which is one of His attributes, the answer is that this is the basic principle. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And turn not away those who invoke their Lord, morning and afternoon seeking His Face”

[al-An’aam 6:52].

“And who has (in mind) no favour from anyone to be paid back,

Except to seek the Countenance of his Lord, the Most High.

He surely, will be pleased (when he will enter Paradise)”

[al-Layl 92:19-21]

And there are other similar verses.

The basic principle is that what is meant by wajh is the Face of Allaah which is one of His attributes. But there is a verse concerning which the mufassireen differed, which is this verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“And to Allaah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn (yourselves or your faces) there is the Face of Allaah”

[al-Baqarah 2:115]

Some of them said that what is meant by wajh here is direction, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“For every nation there is a direction to which they face (in their prayers)”

[al-Baqarah 2:148]

So what is meant by wajh here is direction, so “there is the wajh of Allaah” means there is the direction of prayer which Allaah accepts.

They said: because when travelling, if a person offers naafil prayers he can pray in whatever direction he is facing.

But the correct view is that what is meant by wajh here is the Face of Allaah. So wherever you turn there is the Face of Allaah, because Allaah encompasses all things, and because it was proven from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that when the worshipper stands to pray, Allaah in front of him. Hence it is forbidden for the worshipper to spit in front of him, because Allaah is in front of him. So if you pray in a place where you do not know where the qiblah is, but you do your best to figure it out and pray, and the qiblah is in fact behind you, then Allaah is in front of you even in this situation.

This is the correct meaning which is in accordance with the apparent meaning of the verse, and the first meaning does not in fact contradict it.

So the two meanings do not contradict one another.

It should be noted that this mighty Face which is described in terms of majesty and honour cannot be fully encompassed by human descriptions and imagination. Rather everything that you can think of, Allaah is above that and is greater.

“but they will never compass anything of His Knowledge”

[Ta-Ha 20:110 – interpretation of the meaning]

With regard to the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“Everything will perish save His Face”

[al-Qasas 28:88]

What this means is that everything will perish except His Essence of which s His Face is one of the attributes.

Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitiyyah by Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 1/243-245.

We should not compare the Creator to His creation and imagine Him in terms of His creation, for Allaah is as He has said of Himself (interpretation of the meaning):

“There is nothing like Him”

[al-Shoora 42:11]

So Allaah has risen above His Throne, and He faces the worshipper when he prays, and there is no contradiction between them with regard to Allaah.

Some people were similarly confused about the issue of Allaah descending during the last third of the night to the lowest heaven. They said that the night is not the same throughout the earth, so how can Allaah descend during the night and day at the same time?

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

Later generations who knew that the earth is round and that the sun revolves around the earth said: how can He descend during the last third of the night, when the last third of the night moves from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and goes to Europe and areas nearby? We say: now you are comparing the attributes of Allaah to the attributes of created beings. If you believe it you do not have to do anything beyond that, so do not ask how.

Rather say: When it is the last third of the night in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, then Allaah descends, and when it is the last third of the night in America, Allaah descends then as well.

So our attitude is that we believe what has reached us via Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and that Allaah descends to the lowest heaven when there is one third of the night left, and says, “Who will call upon Me, that I may answer him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will ask My forgiveness that I may forgive him?”

Sharh al-Waasitiyyah, 2/437.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=10243&ln=eng


==================================================

So, the Ash'aris are mistaken in their interpretation of some of the Divine attributes. But that does not put them out of the fold of Islam [i.e. they are not Kuffaar -disbelievers-]. The following is a religious opinion [fatwa] by Sheikh Muhammad Salih Al-Munajjid. It's his answer to question no. 34531 [Acquiring knowledge from the Ash’aris]. Please take special note of the part I coloured red, which shows the opinion of the Standing Committee [the highest Fatwa issuing office in Saudi Arabia]:

Question:

Is it permissible to study fiqh or ‘uloom al-hadeeth (sciences of hadeeth) with an Ash’ari individual?.


Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

The Ash’aris are a sect that is named after Imam Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari (may Allaah have mercy on him). Al-Ash’ari passed through three stages – as mentioned by Ibn Taymiyah in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/72 – which may be summed up as follows: a Mu’tazili stage; then following Ibn Kilaab; then following Ahl al-Sunnah, chiefly Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Al-Ash’ari clearly stated his final position in his three books: Risaalah ila Ahl al-Thaghr, Maqaalaat al-Islaamiyyeen, and al-Ibaanah. Whoever follows al-Ash’ari at this stage is in accordance with Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah in most issues. Whoever follows his path at the second stage is going against al-Ash’ari himself, and is going against Ahl al-Sunnah in many issues.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said in al-Fataawa, 3/338:

Those later scholars who called themselves after Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari were following the second of his stages of ‘aqeedah. They followed the method of misinterpreting most of the divine attributes, and this only affirmed the seven attributes mentioned in the following line of verse:

“Ever-Living, All-Knowing, Able (to do all things), He speaks, He wills, He hears and He sees.”

They also differed with Ahl al-Sunnah as to how these attributes are to be understood.

The Standing Committee issued a fatwa (no. 6606, vol. 3/220):

The Ash’aris are not kuffaar, rather they erred in their interpretation of some of the Divine attributes.

Based on this, it is better for a Muslim to study Islamic knowledge and sharee’ah only with scholars who are well known for their knowledge and sound belief (‘aqeedah), and to keep away from those who follow bid’ah and go against Ahl al-Sunnah, including the Ash’aris. This is something that is easy to do – praise be to Allaah – because the means of learning have become readily available to all people. The knowledge of the scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah is available through many means such as Islamic tapes, books, and leaflets; there are Islamic bulletin boards and sites on the internet, and many easy ways of accessing knowledge – praise be to Allaah.

O Allaah, teach us that which will benefit us, benefit us by that which we learn and increase us in knowledge.

For more information see Question no. 10693.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=34531&ln=eng

==================================================

There's a book I read in Arabic that clearly explains the correct to believe in Allah's attributes, which is the way of the first generation of this Ummah, the Salaf [i.e. the Companions]. If you can read Arabic, then click on the following link to read it's details:

http://www.neelwafurat.com/itempage.aspx?id=lbb121595-81723&search=books


There's an English translation of this book [which I cannot vouch for since I have not read this translation]. The following is the book cover and some details of this translation:

ISBN: 9960850382
Author: Umar S. al-Ashqar
Publisher: International Islamic Publishing House (IIPH) 2003
Pages: 479 Binding: Hardcover


Best regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum

 

[alkathiri]

JazakAllah khair akhi.

My generel message to all:

And it is also important to note not all mazhab followers are ashari or maturids.
Plz for god sake, your aqeedah can be upon the salaf but follow mazhab shafii unless you find a stonger daleel. But finding a stronger daleel is difficult for those non-mujtahid...

I love it when i read this:

Quote:

The Standing Committee issued a fatwa (no. 6606, vol. 3/220):

The Ash’aris are not kuffaar, rather they erred in their interpretation of some of the Divine attributes.

This serves as a reminder that Ashari are not kuffar

May god bring us to the straight path as shown by the prophetSAW , the righly guided caliphs and the 4 imams.

I make dua that all of us here and our families will be among the saved sect.


Allah knows best

 

[Saeed O.J]

:salam2:

I agree with brother alkathiri. I think it is more appropriate for scholars to concentrate on ijtihad or "deduction of shari'a" from the primary sources on similar issues as this. I am not knowledgable individual, but I rather learn Islam than spend time figuring out which one should I follow. We should comply with our beloved prophet (PBUH) advices, and follow the sunnah in the best possible way we can.

Fe aman Allah

 

[jabba]

:salam2:
I respect and honor all those who follow the way of the prophet, regardless of the labels.

I know we as Muslims should "submit" in matters of God's description and not debate how they are or imagine them as physical nor deny them, and most importantly not philosophize them.

But I have two very serious question that troubled and broke my heart for a long time, and I don't know who to ask:

1) Som Sunnis (especially Asharis [الأشاعرة]) accuse Salafis that they are Mushabbiha and Mujassima (مشبهة و مجسمة), i.e., Salafis, according to the accusers, take statements that "God walks" and "God's hand" and "God on the throne" literally, and accuse them also that, at the same time, they claim they are not Mushabbiha or Mujassima. Do Salafis really take the descriptions of God swt literally and physically or is this just a rumor to defame Salafis?

2) Do Salafis cosider the Umma astray, especially that almost 80%* of the Sunnis [أهل السنة و الجماعة] are Asharis [الأشاعرة]?

*the pecentage above is only an estimation based on speculation, no statistics.


Salams,

Salam Alaikum

No matter how you practice your faith or if you choose to follow a sect in Islam, someone is going to have some sort of problem with it. Don't worry about other people and who they are against.....they really have no say in the end anyways.

 

[Globalpeace]

Ashar'es & Maturidies Scholars

Asslamo Allaikum,

I was told by one of my "SALAFI" teachers that over 90% of the Scholars in Islam have been Asha'rees & Maturidees!

Now I can't really check or verify the figure but I know that Imams like Imam Nawawi (RA), Imam Ibnul Haj'r A-Asqalani (RA) were either Asha'ri or Maturidi so the implications of the Fatwa quoted above are ENORMOUS!!!!!!!!!

It is implying that majority of the Scholars of Islam err'ed in their understanding!

Personally, to a laymen like me that's mind-boggling to say the least that most of the scholars that I have come to rely upon in works of Qur'aan, Hadeeth, Fiqh, Seerah etc. were WRONG in such a basic area as Aqeedah...

I mean if someone like Imam Nawawi (RA) got it wrong then what chance have I got?

P.S: Its a myth that Salafees do Tajseem!

 

[alkathiri]

Asslamo Allaikum,

I was told by one of my "SALAFI" teachers that over 90% of the Scholars in Islam have been Asha'rees & Maturidees!

Now I can't really check or verify the figure but I know that Imams like Imam Nawawi (RA), Imam Ibnul Haj'r A-Asqalani (RA) were either Asha'ri or Maturidi so the implications of the Fatwa quoted above are ENORMOUS!!!!!!!!!

It is implying that majority of the Scholars of Islam err'ed in their understanding!

Personally, to a laymen like me that's mind-boggling to say the least that most of the scholars that I have come to rely upon in works of Qur'aan, Hadeeth, Fiqh, Seerah etc. were WRONG in such a basic area as Aqeedah...

I mean if someone like Imam Nawawi (RA) got it wrong then what chance have I got?

P.S: Its a myth that Salafees do Tajseem!

what is important is what the four imams were upon.........

According to imam AHmad RA,he considered excessive interpretation to be outside the Sunna and delving into the simile or metaphor would lead to discord and innovation. The Attributes are as the text state and no one should go further than that

 

[abdallahbilal]

Asslamo Allaikum,

I was told by one of my "SALAFI" teachers that over 90% of the Scholars in Islam have been Asha'rees & Maturidees!

Now I can't really check or verify the figure but I know that Imams like Imam Nawawi (RA), Imam Ibnul Haj'r A-Asqalani (RA) were either Asha'ri or Maturidi so the implications of the Fatwa quoted above are ENORMOUS!!!!!!!!!

It is implying that majority of the Scholars of Islam err'ed in their understanding!

Personally, to a laymen like me that's mind-boggling to say the least that most of the scholars that I have come to rely upon in works of Qur'aan, Hadeeth, Fiqh, Seerah etc. were WRONG in such a basic area as Aqeedah...

I mean if someone like Imam Nawawi (RA) got it wrong then what chance have I got?

P.S: Its a myth that Salafees do Tajseem!

:salam2:
U hit very close where it is most painful. This is exactly what is ailing me and what I have been struggling with for years. And please, brothers, I do care about divisions, we can't just bury our heads in the sand, I feel it is selfish to say "You just follow Quran and Sunna and mind not others." Our Isalam tells us to feel pain and sorrow for the divisions we suffer.

90% or 80% or whatever surely above 50%, the majority of Umma were originally Asharis, and Salafis say they erred in Aqeeda!!!! Allahu Akbar, this almost kills me! How do we put this with the prophet's famous Hadith:

"My Umma never gathers/makes consensus on something that is astray from the right path"

"لا تجتمع أمتي على ضلالة"
Ibn Majah 3950

Is this Hadith correct??

The saying of the prophet pbuh is above sayings of Muftis whom I do respect and appreciate, but I don't know if the Hadith is correct.


The answer to the Face issue shocked me severely, it sounds like Holool (الحلول) is there in Islam, especially when it comes to prayer. Aoothobellah, I cant accuse the Shikh, may be I just can't understand him!
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=10243&ln=eng

I'm only willing to learn and don't mean to challenge anybody's beliefs or Madhab or whatsover.

Thank you brothers for your efforts and responses.

 

[alkathiri]

Apakah aliran yang diikuti oleh empat Imam madzhab?
Jawab: mereka menganut akidah salaf. Akidah empat Imam ini dibuktikan kesalafian mereka oleh Dr Muhammad bin Abdul Rahman alKhumais dan diedarkan percuma kepada semua bakal haji yang tiba di Saudi setiap musim haji dalam bahasa masing-masing. kitab itu ialah 'I'tiqad Aimmatil Arba'ah (Akidah Empat Imam Madzhab). Cuba tanya orang yang balik haji saban tahun dan mereka pasti menerima naskhah percuma Syaikh Khumais ini sebagai ole-oleh kerajaan arab saudi.


Translation:

What aqeedah were the 4 imams upon?

They follow the aqeedah of salaf. This is proven by Dr Muhammad bin Abdul Rahman alKhumais and is given for free to those coming for hajj in Saudi Arabia during every hajj season. This book is call 'I'tiqad Aimmatil Arba'ah (Akidah of the Imam Madzhab). Try asking those who came back from Hajj and it is given for free by the Saudi government

 

[Globalpeace]

:salam2:
U hit very close where it is most painful. This is exactly what is ailing me and what I have been struggling with for years. And please, brothers, I do care about divisions, we can't just bury our heads in the sand, I feel it is selfish to say "You just follow Quran and Sunna and mind not others." Our Isalam tells us to feel pain and sorrow for the divisions we suffer.

90% or 80% or whatever surely above 50%, the majority of Umma were originally Asharis, and Salafis say they erred in Aqeeda!!!! Allahu Akbar, this almost kills me! How do we put this with the prophet's famous Hadith:

"My Umma never gathers/makes consensus on something that is astray from the right path"

"لا تجتمع أمتي على ضلالة"
Ibn Majah 3950

Is this Hadith correct??

The saying of the prophet pbuh is above sayings of Muftis whom I do respect and appreciate, but I don't know if the Hadith is correct.


The answer to the Face issue shocked me severely, it sounds like Holool (الحلول) is there in Islam, especially when it comes to prayer. Aoothobellah, I cant accuse the Shikh, may be I just can't understand him!
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=10243&ln=eng

I'm only willing to learn and don't mean to challenge anybody's beliefs or Madhab or whatsover.

Thank you brothers for your efforts and responses.

Apakah aliran yang diikuti oleh empat Imam madzhab?
Jawab: mereka menganut akidah salaf. Akidah empat Imam ini dibuktikan kesalafian mereka oleh Dr Muhammad bin Abdul Rahman alKhumais dan diedarkan percuma kepada semua bakal haji yang tiba di Saudi setiap musim haji dalam bahasa masing-masing. kitab itu ialah 'I'tiqad Aimmatil Arba'ah (Akidah Empat Imam Madzhab). Cuba tanya orang yang balik haji saban tahun dan mereka pasti menerima naskhah percuma Syaikh Khumais ini sebagai ole-oleh kerajaan arab saudi.


Translation:

What aqeedah were the 4 imams upon?

They follow the aqeedah of salaf. This is proven by Dr Muhammad bin Abdul Rahman alKhumais and is given for free to those coming for hajj in Saudi Arabia during every hajj season. This book is call 'I'tiqad Aimmatil Arba'ah (Akidah of the Imam Madzhab). Try asking those who came back from Hajj and it is given for free by the Saudi government

Asslamo Allaikum,

This has been bugging me since 1995 when I first started studying the disagreement between Hanabila, Ashair & Maturedia....

I am on the Aqeedah of the Salaf (which I understand to be correct), but I have extensiely read and re-read the history as to WHY Scholars supported the Ashar'ees & why there was a NEED to do Ta'weel....

If the Ashari & Maturidee scholars wouldn't have countered Mu'tzilla Allah (SWT) knows what would have hapened!

This issue has been dragging for over 1000+ Years and we are not gonna resolve it on TTI!

What you have read is the classic position of Hanabila on the issue...Off course it has been answered and countered by both Asharees & Maturedees many many times and books and web-sites are filled with the reply and the evidence!

Lets look to unite the Ummah & even though I am on the Aqeedah of the Salaf; I personally CANNOT and WILL NOT say that majority of the Scholars in Islam made a mistake (Audho-billah!); I leave that to the judgement of Allah (SWT)....

TTI is NOT the place to discuss this subject, there are many books and material available specifically devoted to this subject.

I really really don't know what to say!

P.S: Alhum-do-lillah! My teacher was Just and even though he practised and taught Salafi Aqeedah, he did admit that majority of Scholars in Islam were in deed Asha'ri & Maturidi (& continue to be to this day!) and he said, "I will not open my mouth about the matter & will only say that I am on the Aqeedah of the Salaf...."

P.P.S: Br Alkhatiri! Most of the Scholars of Saudia are Hanabila so off course books on this Aqeedah are being distributed during Hajj! Money talks! For the majority of Islam it was always Ashari & Maturidi Aqeedah which held sway and mark my words, the tables are going to turn again AS SOON AS Saudi money runs out....The effects of LACK of Saudi money backing Salafi Dawah is already obvious!

I am not discussing who is right and who is wrong, just telling you how Money talks!

I have done 4 Hajj's and have come back with 4 different Tafseers of Qur'aan by four different Indian Scholars! They range from Hard-core Deobandi to mildy Deobandi to now blatantly Ahle-Hadeeth & Anti-Madhab....and from what I am hearing it is going back to Tafseer-Uthmani (my first one in 1994)

Yesterday It was Hanafees (Ottoman Empire), Today it is Hanabila (Saudees)!

We should BACK Islam based on Qur'aan & Sunnah, money comes and goes!

Over 90% of the people on TTI are probably reading this and wondering what in the God's world are we on about???

 

[rizzumd]

:salam2:
This thread subject is like greek and latin to me.
Can someone tell me who are Asharees & Maturedees?
Sorry if it is basic question, I am still learning..

 

[amyaishazouaoui]

:salam2:
This thread subject is like greek and latin to me.
Can someone tell me who are Asharees & Maturedees?
Sorry if it is basic question, I am still learning..

:salam2:

You are not alone, dont worry......im still waiting for someone to clarify!!!!

(I think this is for the "nextlevel". ........ cant find a glossary big enough for some of these words.........aaaggghhhh even my puter has a headache!!)


Inshallah we will get to know this stuff (but not bogged down with it) ane day:tti_sister: ..... but I think it we'd better work on UNITING coz the more i look and learn the more we are not united!!

 

[samiha]

:salam2:

Yes brother GP, probably so. And all I have to say on this is that Allah knows best. I hate these topics, partially perhaps they make me confused, and partially because when they arise it seems that everything goes awry. People speak, many times, without knowledge. Accusations arise, many times which are unfounded. Ignorance prevails, and if the one with knowledge does not have more eloquence then the truth is suppressed in favor of the better writer.

I don't think that is as it should be.

We Muslims should be sure of our own beliefs, and we should hold firm upon them. We should follow the Qur'aan and Sunnah in accordance to the understanding of the Salaf. And yes, I'm sure some may point out that perhaps I have no right to speak on these matters, and that assuredly, my youth allows me to make such easy claims, and that the matter itself is not so simple as that; and I would agree with you.

I do not know enough, and I don't know if anyone really does. Or ever will. None of us are scholars. What are our claims based on? Who do we relay our information off of? Who is the judge of people, their beliefs and intentions?

One may point out beliefs as wrong, of a certain person or a sect, but ultimately every individual judgment is left to Allah.

Allah knows best. BUT I do not think TTI is the best place to be discussing this. SO temporarily this thread will be closed, and if the other Moderators agree, may or may not be re-opened.

As for the Names and Attributes of Allah - I affirm all His (swt) attributes that He gives himself, and do not seek to interpret them, or liken them to human beings in any shape or form.

I know not if I have the complete right to share this, but as it seems it is needed, I will do so...

Tawheed - Allah's Attributes
Direct Online Link

Based upon the book “The Creed of Ahl-as-sunnah wal-Jama’ah” by Sheikh Ibn Uthaymeen (Rohimahullaah, May Allaah have Mercy on him)

By Sheikh Salem At-Taweel
www.masjidibrahim.org

wasalam