umm hussain
Junior Member
The question came up during a recent interview I did with Onur Oymen, a veteran Turkish lawmaker who served as the nation's ambassador to NATO.
Oymen, a leader in Turkey's Republican People's Party (AKA the CHP), suggested just that during our talk about the rising influence of the nation's ruling Justice and Development Party.
In the course of our talk, Oymen suggested that Muslim head scarves in Turkey were akin to Nazi Brownshirts in Germany or fascist Blackshirts in World War II Italy.
The comparison struck me as stark, so I asked Oymen to explain what he meant.
"Anything, not only head scarf, but anything, any uniform that will be used as a symbol of a political belief or religious belief is a sort of identification of a religious or national symbols to dominate the society," Oymen said. "For instance, in the Hitler time, Hitler youth were put in black shirts, so they called themselves Blackshirts. So it was a symbol of Nazi ideology. In Mussolini time, in Italy, they were wearing brown shirts, so those who carry brown shirts are by definition supporters of Mussolini. So only in authoritarian systems you have such things. Not in democracies."
In writing about Turkey's current political troubles, I made reference to Oymen's remarks, something that has caught the attention of reporters in Turkey.
Now Oymen is denying that he made the comparison and is apparently preparing to demand a correction of some sort.
Well, let's go to the tape, which I still have -- and which we hope to post later. (Here it is.)
Here is the full transcript of the relevant section of the interview, conducted in English. I interviewed Oymen in his Ankara office at the CHP headquarters.
Judge for yourself.
Question: "Under the American Constitution if the nation or a state were to prevent women from wearing head scarves in universities it would actually be seen as an infringement on their religious freedom."
OYMEN: "Of course, because you don't have the danger of Islamization of American society or Sharia governments in America. You don't have such a threat. If some Indian students put their special traditional clothing in universities we don't mind because we don't see them as a threat to our society. But if in Turkey you use it as a symbol of religious state, then it's different. For instance, why Nazi clothings, uniforms, are prohibited in Germany? Isn't it a democracy, Germany? Why you prohibit such uniforms? Because they feel that there's a threat of a revival of Nazi tradition. You see the difference."
Question: "So you would equate head scarves with Nazi..."
OYMEN: "Of course, yes. Anything, not only head scarf, but anything, any uniform that will be used as a symbol of a political belief or religious belief is a sort of identification of a religious or national symbols to dominate the society. For instance, in the Hitler time, Hitler youth were put in black shirts, so they called themselves Blackshirts. So it was a symbol of Nazi ideology. In Mussolini time, in Italy, they were wearing brown shirts, so those who carry brown shirts are by definition supporters of Mussolini. So only in authoritarian systems you have such things. Not in democracies. In a Western society you cannot identify the political philosophy or belief of persons while looking to their clothing only. It's what they are trying to do in Turkey. Not only putting the head scarf, but they put it in such a special way that only the believers of this party ideology do it. It's not a traditional head cover of Anatolian woman. It has nothing to do, it completely, never seen such a thing until 20-30 years ago in Turkey. There was not one single person covering their head in this format. So it is the symbol of the ruling party or, to say the truth, symbol of a certain political-religious ideology. And it is imported from Lebanon. It was originally used in Lebanon and they imported it to Turkey as a symbol. And the prime minister himself said, if it's a symbol what's wrong with that? So he accepts that it is used as a political symbol."
Question: "But to sort of equate Blackshirts or Brownshirts with a head scarf of billions of people from a religious party seems to be rather..."
OYMEN: "Well you may believe that it's exaggerated. It may. It may be. But in the beginning, Hitler was elected as a political party. He got 44 percent of the vote, he got the support of any number of Germans who are not by definition Nazis. But by time he turned the country into an authoritarian system, totalitarian system and he created a mess who was responsible for, let's say, sufferings of millions of people. I cannot compare today our ruling party with Hitler. Of course not. But the matter, the fact that the party is elected does not mean that they would always observe the rules of democracy. So this is the difference. So Hitler did it for political ideology or nationalist ideology. Now, in our country, they use their political backing in elections for an Islamic society. So, you cannot find one single week, look at the newspapers, you cannot find one single week in the last five years or more where one of the leading members of the government has not raised a religious issue."
http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/jerusalem/2008/04/are-muslim-head.html
Oymen, a leader in Turkey's Republican People's Party (AKA the CHP), suggested just that during our talk about the rising influence of the nation's ruling Justice and Development Party.
In the course of our talk, Oymen suggested that Muslim head scarves in Turkey were akin to Nazi Brownshirts in Germany or fascist Blackshirts in World War II Italy.
The comparison struck me as stark, so I asked Oymen to explain what he meant.
"Anything, not only head scarf, but anything, any uniform that will be used as a symbol of a political belief or religious belief is a sort of identification of a religious or national symbols to dominate the society," Oymen said. "For instance, in the Hitler time, Hitler youth were put in black shirts, so they called themselves Blackshirts. So it was a symbol of Nazi ideology. In Mussolini time, in Italy, they were wearing brown shirts, so those who carry brown shirts are by definition supporters of Mussolini. So only in authoritarian systems you have such things. Not in democracies."
In writing about Turkey's current political troubles, I made reference to Oymen's remarks, something that has caught the attention of reporters in Turkey.
Now Oymen is denying that he made the comparison and is apparently preparing to demand a correction of some sort.
Well, let's go to the tape, which I still have -- and which we hope to post later. (Here it is.)
Here is the full transcript of the relevant section of the interview, conducted in English. I interviewed Oymen in his Ankara office at the CHP headquarters.
Judge for yourself.
Question: "Under the American Constitution if the nation or a state were to prevent women from wearing head scarves in universities it would actually be seen as an infringement on their religious freedom."
OYMEN: "Of course, because you don't have the danger of Islamization of American society or Sharia governments in America. You don't have such a threat. If some Indian students put their special traditional clothing in universities we don't mind because we don't see them as a threat to our society. But if in Turkey you use it as a symbol of religious state, then it's different. For instance, why Nazi clothings, uniforms, are prohibited in Germany? Isn't it a democracy, Germany? Why you prohibit such uniforms? Because they feel that there's a threat of a revival of Nazi tradition. You see the difference."
Question: "So you would equate head scarves with Nazi..."
OYMEN: "Of course, yes. Anything, not only head scarf, but anything, any uniform that will be used as a symbol of a political belief or religious belief is a sort of identification of a religious or national symbols to dominate the society. For instance, in the Hitler time, Hitler youth were put in black shirts, so they called themselves Blackshirts. So it was a symbol of Nazi ideology. In Mussolini time, in Italy, they were wearing brown shirts, so those who carry brown shirts are by definition supporters of Mussolini. So only in authoritarian systems you have such things. Not in democracies. In a Western society you cannot identify the political philosophy or belief of persons while looking to their clothing only. It's what they are trying to do in Turkey. Not only putting the head scarf, but they put it in such a special way that only the believers of this party ideology do it. It's not a traditional head cover of Anatolian woman. It has nothing to do, it completely, never seen such a thing until 20-30 years ago in Turkey. There was not one single person covering their head in this format. So it is the symbol of the ruling party or, to say the truth, symbol of a certain political-religious ideology. And it is imported from Lebanon. It was originally used in Lebanon and they imported it to Turkey as a symbol. And the prime minister himself said, if it's a symbol what's wrong with that? So he accepts that it is used as a political symbol."
Question: "But to sort of equate Blackshirts or Brownshirts with a head scarf of billions of people from a religious party seems to be rather..."
OYMEN: "Well you may believe that it's exaggerated. It may. It may be. But in the beginning, Hitler was elected as a political party. He got 44 percent of the vote, he got the support of any number of Germans who are not by definition Nazis. But by time he turned the country into an authoritarian system, totalitarian system and he created a mess who was responsible for, let's say, sufferings of millions of people. I cannot compare today our ruling party with Hitler. Of course not. But the matter, the fact that the party is elected does not mean that they would always observe the rules of democracy. So this is the difference. So Hitler did it for political ideology or nationalist ideology. Now, in our country, they use their political backing in elections for an Islamic society. So, you cannot find one single week, look at the newspapers, you cannot find one single week in the last five years or more where one of the leading members of the government has not raised a religious issue."
http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/jerusalem/2008/04/are-muslim-head.html