Article - does prayer change God's mind?

Precious Star

Junior Member
Excerpt:
This question stems from a misunderstanding about the relationship of a person of faith with his/her Creator. A prayer is to seek God’s grace, mercy and forgiveness. It establishes and strengthens our relationship with Him and brings us closer to Him.

Muslims generally use the term “prayer” for the five daily prayers, an obligatory duty for all adults (Holy Koran, 4:103). It is a pure act of worship. Its content includes glorification of our Lord, promise to worship none but Him and humble supplication for His help and guidance in all our affairs.

Prayer also means a supplication to our Creator in times of difficulties. It is a sincere hope for succour but never to “change God’s mind.” Islam’s first and foremost teaching is to have absolute trust and faith in God Who He cherishes His creation. We are never to become despondent but keep our trust in God Almighty (39:53).

Muslims are advised not to worry about the acceptance of a supplication but to worry about making a proper supplication. Our prophet, peace be upon him, said that God Almighty may accept a supplication when made or may postpone its acceptance to the Hereafter or He may remove another similar difficulty.

Most people of faith begin their daily activities with some form of prayer. For example, when I began writing this piece, I said “In the name of God, the Most Gracious, Most Merciful”. Among Muslims, supplication to God is one of most important extra-canonical devotional acts. In fact, the prophet of Islam, peace be upon him, said: “Supplication is the essence of worship”.

Our Creator tells us in the Holy Koran that He is close to us and listens to our supplications (2:286). He says: “Call on Me: I will answer you” (40:60). Consequently, Muslims begin and end every action with an invocation of the name of God. The act may relate to work or leisure, matter or spirit.
 

finding light

Ya Rab! Forgive me..
Asalamualykum,

So does that mean that whatever is going to happen is already ordained. and Making dua is just part of what is already ordained....?

The whole concept of predetermination is a little confusing...
 

Ershad

Junior Member
Asalamualykum,

So does that mean that whatever is going to happen is already ordained. and Making dua is just part of what is already ordained....?

The whole concept of predetermination is a little confusing...

Walaykkum Assalam,

It is not confusing at all. When you make dua to change your condition or you ask for something and it doesn't happen, doesn't mean you have to believe that it is not ordained for you. Because, you do not know the future. Yes, nothing escapes Allah's knowledge. He has knowledge of past, future and of every deed you will do and every provision you will get. Everything that goes around in universe happens because Allah has willed. Every one's lifespan/provisions/deeds is already written in the preserved tablet.

But, that doesn't mean you have to believe that dua won't change your condition. Because, that would mean you believe you know what Allah has preordained for you. And that is kufr. Because, only Allah has knowledge of everything that is future. For example, the fact that you did dua is also preordained and if that changes your condition, that is also preordained. It is Allah's knowledge. Nothing escapes it. But, what Allah has willed is not known to you, hence you make dua. And you have a choice to make dua or not. You have a choice whether you continue to make dua or you leave it. But, the result of your choice is known to Allah i.e. what choice you will make and hence pre-ordained. This doesn't contradict your choice since you do not know what is preordained. The fact that you asked this question is also preordained.

It is like a situation, where you have a choice whether to climb a wall or not, and then you make a choice to climb and you fall down. The choice of climbing the wall was made by you, you weren't compelled by anyone neither were you aware that you would fall down. But, you fell down because it was preordained.

"Changing God's mind" like the title of this thread says would mean "Allah doesn't have knowledge of what dua you were going to make, your deeds and what provision you would be getting" - Which is completely false. Allah has knowledge of Everything. You have to make dua continously and you get what is preordained.

May Allah grant us success. Ameen

I hope it is clearer.
 

finding light

Ya Rab! Forgive me..
Asalamualykum,

Yes brother, it is clear. What you wrote is exactly what I was saying... the explanation is clear but the understanding is not - well at least not for me.
Thats why I ask - even the making of the dua is preordained. Yes Allah has knowledge of all and He knows what we will do and what we will not and the consequences of that.

But making dua doesnt change what is preordained. This is what some people believe. That you have a certain "fate" but if you make dua that fate can change. Its not like that. What is written is written, and we jsut dont know it yet. Making dua is part of our fate and hence subsequently we get what we ask or are tried by not getting which is already written...

Brother, it is confusing to understand! :(
But I dont think we really need to that much. All we need to know is that Allah knows everything. What we have done and what we will do. And the most important thing is to strive to be the best Muslim and endure our trials with patience and prayer.
 

Ershad

Junior Member
But making dua doesnt change what is preordained. This is what some people believe.

:wasalam:

Yes, I understand what you mean. How do people know what is preordained? I guess the people themselves know that they don't know what is preordained. However they make comments like "Maybe this is not written or preordained for me." which sometimes comes from them losing hope in dua. We should make dua with hope, not just in words but in heart also. Some people make dua, but deep down in heart believe it will not happen at all or Allah is not going to accept it. Of course, we should fear that our dua might not get accepted (which is a part of taqwa as well). We make dua sincerely with hope and whatever the result, we accept it as it is the Qadr of Allah.

:wasalam:
 

finding light

Ya Rab! Forgive me..
:wasalam:

Yes, I understand what you mean. How do people know what is preordained? I guess the people themselves know that they don't know what is preordained. However they make comments like "Maybe this is not written or preordained for me." which sometimes comes from them losing hope in dua. We should make dua with hope, not just in words but in heart also. Some people make dua, but deep down in heart believe it will not happen at all or Allah is not going to accept it. Of course, we should fear that our dua might not get accepted (which is a part of taqwa as well). We make dua sincerely with hope and whatever the result, we accept it as it is the Qadr of Allah.

:wasalam:

Yes you are absolutely right! Sincerity in dua, hope in Allah's mercy and trying everything possible before giving up.

May Allah give us pateince and perseverance
 

Idris16

Junior Member
Asalamualykum,

So does that mean that whatever is going to happen is already ordained. and Making dua is just part of what is already ordained....?

The whole concept of predetermination is a little confusing...
That's why we as Muslims should not immerse ourselves with Qadr.
 

misalat

Junior Member
Clarification of dua changes fate

In the name of Allah, We praise Him, seek His help and ask for His forgiveness. Whoever Allah guides none can misguide, and whoever He allows to fall astray, none can guide them aright. We bear witness that there is no one (no idol, no person, no grave, no prophet, no imam, no dai, nobody!) worthy of worship but Allah Alone, and we bear witness that Muhammad(saws) is His slave-servant and the seal of His Messengers.



Your Statement: In your replies to one of the questions regarding fate and free will ,u have said that Fate can never be changed and whats written is written forever.

It is not as if Allah Subhanah does not know the affliction or calamity about to befall a person, and when the calamity suddenly afflicts a person and he makes dua and supplication to Allah Subhanah to remove his affliction, a sudden change of plans are made and Allah Subhanah expedites the end of the trial from him!



The trial befell the person as a test ordained from Allah Subhanah, for a period ordained and Decreed by Allah Subhanah, and will end at the time ordained by Allah Subhanah! The All-Knowing Lord already knows that so and so person will keep his faith firm in Him, supplicate Him Alone, and the trial will be lifted at its ordained time! The All Knowing Lord also knows that so and so person will lose hope in Him, supplicate all and sundry to remove his trial, and Allah will remove the trial at its exact appointed time!

The difference being, the one who kept his faith firm passed the test ordained by Allah; and the one who lost hope in Allah Alone, failed the test miserably! The fate of the individual does not change because he made or did not make the supplications; because what we call ‘fate’ is in reality the Perfect and Absolute Knowledge of the All-Knowing Lord, which He has documented completely at the beginning of creation!



Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 6 Surah Anaam verse 38: There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have We omitted from ‘The Book’ and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.



Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 57 Surah Hadid verse 22: No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls, but is recorded in a Decree before We bring it into existence: that is truly easy for Allah:



Thus what we call ‘fate’ is in reality what Allah Subhanah has already written down in His Perfect and Absolute Knowledge in the ‘mother of all Books: the Loh-al-Mahfoodh’, and that can never ever be changed in the least! Allah Subhanah, in His Perfect and Absolute Knowledge knows exactly who will stay steadfast and beseech Him Alone and thus pass the trial; and who will loose faith in Him and beseech others and thus fail the test!



Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 10 Surah Yunus verse 64 (part): No change can there be in the Words of Allah!



Your Statement: Prophet PBUH say that none can change/turn your Fate except your Du`a and supplication.... this is an authentic Hadith and i think according to it ,we can change our Fate provided we keep our faith intact and keep making Dua and supplications.

Salman Al-Farisi reported that the Prophet (saws) said, "Nothing can avert the Decree of Allah except supplication, and nothing increases life except virtuous deeds." (Related by Tirmidhi)



There is indeed an authentic tradition from the Messenger of Allah (saws) to the effect you have quoted. But again, one must understand that it is not as if Allah Subhanah is unaware that when a calamity befalls His believing slave, and he will supplicate Allah Subhanah to avert the calamity, there will be a sudden change of plans and Allah Subhanah will have to change what He has written with His Absolute and Perfect Knowledge in one’s fate!



Allah Subhanah already knows from His Absolute and Perfect knowledge what His creation will do, and this He has documented in the ‘mother of all Books: Al-Loh Al-Mahfoodh’ prior to creation! What we call and recognize as ‘fate’, is in reality the Decree which the All Knowing Lord has documented in His Absolute and Perfect Knowledge; and that cannot be changed in the least!



Take the case of Prophet Yunus (a.s.), who was cast into the belly of a fish by the Decree of Allah Subhanah. And Prophet Yunus (a.s.) supplicated Allah Subhanah to avert this calamity, as stated by Allah Subhanah in the Glorious Quran:



Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 37 Surah Saafaat verses 142-144:

142 Then the big Fish did swallow him and he had done acts worthy of blame.

143 Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified Allah

144 He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection.



In light of the above verses of the Quran, it indeed seems that it was the supplication of Prophet Yunus (a.s.) which ‘changed’ his fate of remaining in the stomach of the fish until the Day of Resurrection! But in reality, Allah Subhanah already knew in His Absolute and Perfect Knowledge that Prophet Yunus (a.s.) would make an unintentional error, and subsequently the fish would swallow him, and subsequently he (a.s.) would supplicate Allah Subhanah to avert his calamity, and Allah Subhanah would then avert his calamity! That is because Allah Subhanah has Perfect and Absolute Knowledge of everything of the past, present and future; and this is what is documented and called one’s ‘fate’ or ‘destiny’!



The supplication or dua which one makes to His Lord, is in effect a part of his ‘fate’ which is in reality the Perfect and Absolute Knowledge of Allah Subhanah; and that can never ever be changed!!



Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.



Your Brother in Islam,
 

finding light

Ya Rab! Forgive me..
JazakAllah Khair Brother for the detailed explanations.. but it brings up more questions...
But like Bro Idris said - better not to ponder too much about this.

Just do your utmost to be good, always repent and believe in the Mercy of Allah.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Asalaam alaikum,

I waited to respond to this.

First this is an excerpt from an unknown article. We are not given a link to read the article in its context.

Second, I can not digest the words change God's mind. Someone help me understand this.Why is this statement not minor shirk? I am stuck.

Third, we need to understand the need for repentance. That should be the focus of our discussion. In the example of the Prophet Yunus he cried out. He repented. He knew and took responsibility for the fact that he had sinned against the laws of Allah.

When things do not go our way we have to go to step one and ask for the forgiveness of Allah.
 

Darkman

New Member
If I may add something to this...

Let us suppose that everything is preordained and that Allah knows all. However, we are granted the feeling of free will. What would it matter, then, how we acted? Or how anyone acted? All is already written and can't be changed. Any current choices we make are the only the passing of preordained events. Therefore, even if we think we change our paths, we aren't really. We're just following a script.

In order for any concept of free will to work, even the smallest amount, we would have to grant that there is no way for anything to see all. This would mean being able to somehow "break script", as it were, but if something knew you were going to, that takes away free will.
 

Precious Star

Junior Member
If I may add something to this...

Let us suppose that everything is preordained and that Allah knows all. However, we are granted the feeling of free will. What would it matter, then, how we acted? Or how anyone acted? All is already written and can't be changed. Any current choices we make are the only the passing of preordained events. Therefore, even if we think we change our paths, we aren't really. We're just following a script.

In order for any concept of free will to work, even the smallest amount, we would have to grant that there is no way for anything to see all. This would mean being able to somehow "break script", as it were, but if something knew you were going to, that takes away free will.

Something that is pre-ordained by Allah is not the same thing as something happening with Allah's knowledge, although the two concepts can overlap.

Anyway, these concepts are getting too confusing. I think it is safe to assume at least the following two propositions are correct:
1. Allah has decreed our life to unfold in a certain way. Our dua doesn't change the major events in our lives (or lack thereof). Dua will not help us achieve our life goals, dreams, hopes, etc..
2. Dua helps us in the Hereafter and in achieving a closeness to Allah.
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
If I may add something to this...

Let us suppose that everything is preordained and that Allah knows all. However, we are granted the feeling of free will. What would it matter, then, how we acted? Or how anyone acted? All is already written and can't be changed. Any current choices we make are the only the passing of preordained events. Therefore, even if we think we change our paths, we aren't really. We're just following a script.

In order for any concept of free will to work, even the smallest amount, we would have to grant that there is no way for anything to see all. This would mean being able to somehow "break script", as it were, but if something knew you were going to, that takes away free will.

Hello, If you wont mind I would like to point out some small examples to clarify this.

1. You didn't chose where you would be be born, who would be you parents, color of your skin, etc. This is all preordained and you can't change it.

2. You are standing on 2 diverging roads, you have free will to chose either one of them. Allah (swt) already knows which one you would chose and where it would lead you to. You didn't choose the road because Allah (swt) forced you to do so, that was your free will.
 

sabs1164

AmatuLLaH
Hello, If you wont mind I would like to point out some small examples to clarify this.

1. You didn't chose where you would be be born, who would be you parents, color of your skin, etc. This is all preordained and you can't change it.

2. You are standing on 2 diverging roads, you have free will to chose either one of them. Allah (swt) already knows which one you would chose and where it would lead you to. You didn't choose the road because Allah (swt) forced you to do so, that was your free will.

i agree with my brother, my maulana gave an example similiar to his. I ALSO LEARNT from my Moulana that dua can change Taqdeer if not, why do we have to pray for our brothers suffering all over the world? ALLAH loves it when we make dua, i have never heard that we mustn't make dua because whatever suffering you going through was ordained by ALLAH...maybe im wrong.
ALLAH KNOWS.
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
Hello, If you wont mind I would like to point out some small examples to clarify this.

1. You didn't chose where you would be be born, who would be you parents, color of your skin, etc. This is all preordained and you can't change it.

2. You are standing on 2 diverging roads, you have free will to chose either one of them. Allah (swt) already knows which one you would chose and where it would lead you to. You didn't choose the road because Allah (swt) forced you to do so, that was your free will.

:salam2:
Indeed brother,Allah knows what choice we are going to make out of His infinite wisdom and knowledge.
It's about foreseeing not forcing.
While the choice is ours.
Because we are going to do it hence it is written,it is not that because it is written hence we are going to do it.

:wasalam:
 
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