Blame Ourselves or Blame the Rulers?

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by Al-Kashmiri, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. Abu Juwairiya
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    Abu Juwairiya Junior Member

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    Assalammu Alaikum Brother Saif and Jazakallah Khayrun for both your 'apology' and for enlightening me on the questions I raised about the indictments against me from your earlier post and where I am justly guilty.

    In reply to your post, I again made general comments. As I am not aware of the events you have referred to across the Muslim World in their entirety (that is the full story from all sides), and specifically Libya and Syria, I will not make any immediate judgements until I know more about what has transpired and what is currently happening.

    As to Takfeer, I am not referring to any specific scholars, only what is Islamically required. May I ask did I say that Takfeer is done by the common people, I don't believe I did, only that it is not for them to do so. Having said that, I wish to add 'scholars' can be just as guilty of making takfeer incorrectly, giving wrong fatawas and declaring things to be wrong, misleading the people and representing falsehood as correct. But at the same time it does not mean the office of scholarship is at fault and should be abolished either. I spoke in general terms.
  2. saif
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    saif Junior Member

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    Assalamu alaikum,

    I hope you now understand, why I had to shake my head on that voting about the hijaab issue. Because muslims are otherwise staunch opposers of democracy in the matters of state, where it actually belongs. And exactly, where it does not belong- in the decision between right and wrong- they were voting.

    Wassalamu alaikum.
  3. Abu Juwairiya
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    Assalammu Alaikum Brother Saif. I thank you for your explanation and the clarity of outlining your evaluation of my words. If I can mention I was not offended, just a little surprised and unsure of what I had said or done wrong by analysing your posts.
  4. saif
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    saif Junior Member

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    Assalamu alaikum dear brother Abu Juwairiya,

    I am touched by your mannerism, which is sadly becoming very rare. Here is that Fatwa against Gaddafi I was referring to:

    http://turntoislam.com/community/th...day-of-rage-in-libya.75701/page-2#post-493577

    You can find a good display of a whole spectrum of opinions on that issue in the following thread:

    http://turntoislam.com/community/th...-gaddafi-legitimate-according-to-islam.79696/

    You will see, that the questions about Asad were also raised in the same thread. For me it is interesting to revisit those threads, because they have captured the mood of the muslims in that time.

    Wassalamu alaikum.
  5. Abu Juwairiya
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    Assalammu Alaikum Brother Saif and Jazakallah Khayrun.

    As you may have seen from my other posts, I am very much not Pro Saudi. I have lived and worked in the country for nine years and (in addition to my personal research) I do not classify the scholars of the country in the same category as the Classical Mufasireen; namely Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam Bukhari, Imam Nawawi et al. So in that context, you have no arguments from me as to the legitimacy and credibility of the assertions made by some or many of them over the Kufr, Bid'ah and status of a person's Eeman based on their fatwas. This does not mean I don't take them as scholars, only that I find it hard to take from them when it comes to political issues.

    In respect to Assad, I will tell you of something that happened in the 1980s. A Syrian sheikh was holding the floor for questions in the UK after finishing a talk and one member of the audience decided to put him on the spot with a direct question. The question was, 'In your opinion is [President] Hafez Al Assad [the father of Bashar, and then Syrian leader as you know) a Kafir? The sheikh looked at him as if to say, 'why have you asked me this?' and replied, 'You know what he is and I know what he is, but I have to go back to Syria'. The relevance of this and what this has to do with his son Bashar is that they share the same aqeedah (religious beliefs) and that is they believe in the religion of the Alawis, which holds that Allah exists but a few human beings (including Ali) are higher than Allah. Such a belief makes an adherent of it a Kafir, so it is not his attitude, his actions that I call him a Kafir, but his aqeedah.
  6. alfon021
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    I thank the person who posted this original thread and would like to add a few more supporting quotes from sahaba and the pious, Quran ayahs, hadiths and lectures so that it can help create a broader spectrum in everyone's mind regarding this topic.

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