truthseeker63
Junior Member
Thursday, March 17, 2005
Reply to a Muslim Apologist Concerning the Two Natures of Christ and Trinitarianism (vs. Shabir Ally)Critique of the full text of the paper, Was Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man at the Same Time? (from the web page, Islam Answers Back). Mr. Ally's words will be in blue.The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
Mr. Ally's "logic" here is "what cannot be." This is simply not a contradiction because it is one person having two natures, one of which is finite and the other infinite. It would be like saying that of my two arms, one has unlimited power and can lift anything in the universe, while the other does not. That's not contradictory; it is simply a differentiation between the two arms. A true contradiction would be something like saying that "one arm can lift anything in the universe and cannot do so, at the same time." Likewise, Jesus has two natures, rather than one, as we have. He is both God and man. As God, He has infinite capacities; as man, He does not. He can, therefore, do some things as God and others as a man, with the usual limitations we are all subject to.
Thus, if Jesus indeed had two natures, as we believe, the difficulty is resolved. If He had one nature that possessed contradictory properties, then there would be a problem. Therefore, the discussion comes down to the possibility or impossibility of God becoming a man who possesses both a divine and a human nature (and the antecedent question of what a nature is). More on this below, concerning God becoming man, and whether this is logically and actually possible or not . . .
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/03/reply-to-muslim-apologist-concerning.html
Can anyone debunk or refute the above claim that Jesus having two natures God and man is like a person having one arm that can lift things and one arm that cannot ?
Reply to a Muslim Apologist Concerning the Two Natures of Christ and Trinitarianism (vs. Shabir Ally)Critique of the full text of the paper, Was Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man at the Same Time? (from the web page, Islam Answers Back). Mr. Ally's words will be in blue.The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
Mr. Ally's "logic" here is "what cannot be." This is simply not a contradiction because it is one person having two natures, one of which is finite and the other infinite. It would be like saying that of my two arms, one has unlimited power and can lift anything in the universe, while the other does not. That's not contradictory; it is simply a differentiation between the two arms. A true contradiction would be something like saying that "one arm can lift anything in the universe and cannot do so, at the same time." Likewise, Jesus has two natures, rather than one, as we have. He is both God and man. As God, He has infinite capacities; as man, He does not. He can, therefore, do some things as God and others as a man, with the usual limitations we are all subject to.
Thus, if Jesus indeed had two natures, as we believe, the difficulty is resolved. If He had one nature that possessed contradictory properties, then there would be a problem. Therefore, the discussion comes down to the possibility or impossibility of God becoming a man who possesses both a divine and a human nature (and the antecedent question of what a nature is). More on this below, concerning God becoming man, and whether this is logically and actually possible or not . . .
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/03/reply-to-muslim-apologist-concerning.html
Can anyone debunk or refute the above claim that Jesus having two natures God and man is like a person having one arm that can lift things and one arm that cannot ?