Can anyone debunk or refute the above claim ?

truthseeker63

Junior Member
Thursday, March 17, 2005

Reply to a Muslim Apologist Concerning the Two Natures of Christ and Trinitarianism (vs. Shabir Ally)Critique of the full text of the paper, Was Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man at the Same Time? (from the web page, Islam Answers Back). Mr. Ally's words will be in blue.The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
Mr. Ally's "logic" here is "what cannot be." This is simply not a contradiction because it is one person having two natures, one of which is finite and the other infinite. It would be like saying that of my two arms, one has unlimited power and can lift anything in the universe, while the other does not. That's not contradictory; it is simply a differentiation between the two arms. A true contradiction would be something like saying that "one arm can lift anything in the universe and cannot do so, at the same time." Likewise, Jesus has two natures, rather than one, as we have. He is both God and man. As God, He has infinite capacities; as man, He does not. He can, therefore, do some things as God and others as a man, with the usual limitations we are all subject to.
Thus, if Jesus indeed had two natures, as we believe, the difficulty is resolved. If He had one nature that possessed contradictory properties, then there would be a problem. Therefore, the discussion comes down to the possibility or impossibility of God becoming a man who possesses both a divine and a human nature (and the antecedent question of what a nature is). More on this below, concerning God becoming man, and whether this is logically and actually possible or not . . .

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/03/reply-to-muslim-apologist-concerning.html

Can anyone debunk or refute the above claim that Jesus having two natures God and man is like a person having one arm that can lift things and one arm that cannot ?
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
Assalamu Aleykum brother. My refutation to the Mushrik would be:


To: The Mushrik:

So according you, you beleive that Allah (SWT) in His Essense, changed his shape/form from a non-human being into a human being (like the way a sheet of paper can be folded into a paper airplane and still retain its essense)?

In that case, let me show you this experiment:

Lets say that I got a peice of clay and molded it into a sphere, and then after that, I take that sphere and mold it into a cube.

So according to the above, I could use that peice of clay, change it into a sphere, and then change it into a cube, right? But what CAN'T happen is that I CAN'T change the sphere into a cube, and have it to be a sphere at the same time. And you know why?

Because a sphere is round and has NO edges/sides, while a cube DOES, and so by getting that peice of clay, I made a sphere (which is completely round) and then made the sphere into a cube (which has 6 sides); and so the material of the sphere and the cube was the SAME, but their characteristics are and WILL FOREVER remain differant.

And so the example of Allah (SWT) and mortals is like that. Allah (SWT) has His characteristics which are DIFFERANT than that of a mortal, and a mortal has his/her characteristics which is differant than Allah (SWT)'s.

http://youtu.be/Xjpq468GpJI?t=1m2s
 

Tomtom

Banned
As'alaamu Alaikkm

I feel that this type of posts are irrelevant here as we all believe that Jesus (pbuh) was not
God or part of the trinity. The trouble when one gets into a discussion of this type is it just goes round and round in a circle, they believing as they do and we believing as we do. The only way to refute it, I feel, is to tell them to read the Holy Qur'an which you believe to be the truth from God and close the argument, otherwise it will be just futile.
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
Thursday, March 17, 2005

Reply to a Muslim Apologist Concerning the Two Natures of Christ and Trinitarianism (vs. Shabir Ally)Critique of the full text of the paper, Was Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man at the Same Time? (from the web page, Islam Answers Back). Mr. Ally's words will be in blue.The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
Mr. Ally's "logic" here is "what cannot be." This is simply not a contradiction because it is one person having two natures, one of which is finite and the other infinite. It would be like saying that of my two arms, one has unlimited power and can lift anything in the universe, while the other does not. That's not contradictory; it is simply a differentiation between the two arms. A true contradiction would be something like saying that "one arm can lift anything in the universe and cannot do so, at the same time." Likewise, Jesus has two natures, rather than one, as we have. He is both God and man. As God, He has infinite capacities; as man, He does not. He can, therefore, do some things as God and others as a man, with the usual limitations we are all subject to.
Thus, if Jesus indeed had two natures, as we believe, the difficulty is resolved. If He had one nature that possessed contradictory properties, then there would be a problem. Therefore, the discussion comes down to the possibility or impossibility of God becoming a man who possesses both a divine and a human nature (and the antecedent question of what a nature is). More on this below, concerning God becoming man, and whether this is logically and actually possible or not . . .

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/03/reply-to-muslim-apologist-concerning.html

Can anyone debunk or refute the above claim that Jesus having two natures God and man is like a person having one arm that can lift things and one arm that cannot ?
:salam2:
Exalted is Allah above all that they associate with Him.
Is He saying God is incompetant,by having one hand which cannot life things?!
Clearly this is associating partners with God and blaspheming against Him,for Exalted is God the Most High and not humble like creations!
There are several verses in Bible where it says God is not like man,nor is God humble.

In Qur'an it says in interpratation of meaning:

....There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.[42:11]Ash Shu'ara.

Plus such type of discussions should be avoided,The Creator is not like the creation.
 
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