Can u say Asalamu alaykum to one that he is not Pray

[Ahmedkaafi]

:salam2:

Dear Brothers and sisters i have 3 questions 4 u,
1- can we say Aslamu alaykum to tariku salat(the one that he is not pray five time salat)?
2 -Can he marry by Islamic low(sharia)?
3 -we he die which grave that we gana take him(Islam or christian)?

Wabilahi towfik

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

Walikum salaam

I have never heard that you cannot give salaams to someone who is not praying 5 times a day - although there is no doubt that they need to do this and have weak iman if they are not, we cannot say that they do not have some level of iman in their heart and maybe trying. They may also be praying a few of the prayers and just really struggling - we are told that we should return the same greeting from a brother and sister or a better one - i.e the full "assalaamu alaikum rahmatullahi wa baraktahu" and giving salaams is very important. There is also the following hadith:

The Prophet (SAW)made spreading salaam a part of faith. Bukhari and Muslim narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar that a man asked the Messenger of Allaah (SAW): “What is the best thing in Islam?” He said, “Feeding others and giving the greeting of salaam to those whom you know and those whom you do not know.”

Ibn Hajar said in al-Fath (1/56): “i.e., do not single out anybody out of arrogance or to impress them, but do it to honour the symbols of Islam and to foster Islamic brotherhood.”

Ibn Rajab said in al-Fath (1/43): “The hadeeth makes the connection between feeding others and spreading salaam because this combines good actions in both word and deed, which is perfect good treatment (ihsaan). Indeed, this is the best thing that you can do in Islam after the obligatory duties.”


Thus the Prophet (SAW) explained that this salaam spreads love and brotherhood. Muslim narrated from Abu Hurayrah (RA) that the Messenger of Allaah (SAW) said: “You will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Shall I not tell you about something which, if you do it, you will love one another? Spread salaam amongst yourselves

Abu Hurayrah (RA) said that the Prophet (SAW) said: “The Muslim has five rights over his fellow-Muslim: he should return his salaams, visit him when he is sick, attend his funeral, accept his invitation, and pray for mercy for him [say “Yarhamuk Allaah”] when he sneezes.” [Muslim & Bukhari]

With regards to what type of grave they go to when they die - only Allah swt knows.

We should not judge one another as we are not fit to. One of Allah swt's names is The Judge and another is the Most Just - only He has knowledge of the Unseen (what is in someone's heart) and only He knows where they will go when they die. We should not judge one another as it brings about bad relations and feeling, and we should be united and foster brotherhood and sisterhood but ALSO we when we judge one another we are denying Allah swt one of his names.

So my advice to you is to simply give and return salaams to someone like this and do your best to give them naseeha (advice) and knowledge (dawah) in order to help them strengthen their iman and fulfill the fard actions insha'allah

Salaams

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

Sorry I forgot the bit about marriage by Shariah - once again there is no evidence to support that they cannot. If they call themselves muslim and believe in the 7 articles of faith then they are muslim but a muslim with weak iman. Once again we cannot judge them but should endeavour to help them insha'allah

Salaams

 

[Kayote]

We should not judge one another as we are not fit to. One of Allah swt's names is The Judge and another is the Most Just - only He has knowledge of the Unseen (what is in someone's heart) and only He knows where they will go when they die. We should not judge one another as it brings about bad relations and feeling, and we should be united and foster brotherhood and sisterhood but ALSO we when we judge one another we are denying Allah swt one of his names.

:salam2:

Masha'Allah, the sums up all the questions. Wonderfully answered MubarekMuslimah. JazzakAllah Khair.

 

[samiha]

Assalam.

i wasn't going to post at all, and i still don't think i should because I don't want to cause debate and all such things... but *sigh*

Many scholars say that not praying puts a person in a state of kufr (disbelief) this is based on a hadith were the prophet (saws) said, "The only thing that separates a believer from a non-believer is prayer" Not only this, but the Sahaba's of the past didn't consider anything to put a man in the state of kufr except the abandonment of prayer.

Thus, this person cannot be given the Salaam because they are not in the State of Islam. They cannot be married the same way or buried in Muslim cemetaries...

but as it is... there are differences of opinion based on whether the person denys Salah or doen't do it out of lazyness

... since Islam is based on proof, I will try to find all the necessary info. and post it here (Inshallah)

Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The pact between us and them is Salah. Whoever gives it up becomes an unbeliever”. Narrated by Ahmad and Abu Dawood.

Muslim also narrated form Jabir (radianlahuanhu) that Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Between a person and disbelief and polytheism is discarding Salah”.

Abdullah Ibn Shaqiq also says: “the companions of the Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did not consider the abandonment of any act, with the exception of Salah, as being disbelief.” al-Tirmizi reported this Hadith.

The daily five prayers are among the five pillars of Islam. They come right after the proclaiming the two witnesses of Islam. The person who does not perform the prayers has no share in Islam since the

Prophet said: "The pact between us and them is prayer. Whoever abandons it is a disbeliever". [Reported by Imam Tirmizi and he grades it Sahih].

The Prophet also said: "The head of the matter is Islam, its pillar is the prayer and the top of its hump is Jihad in the way of Allah". [Imam Tirmizi and classified it as Sahih].

Whoever abandons some prayers he enters in this ruling of

Allah: "Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell". [19:59]

Allaah has commanded all the believers to guard strictly the observance of the prayers, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Guard strictly (five obligatory) As Salawaat (the prayers) especially the middle Salaah (i.e. the best prayer ‘Asr). And stand before Allaah with obedience [and do not speak to others during the Salaah (prayers)]”[al-Baqarah 2:238]

The five daily prayers are obligatory upon every Muslim man and woman, night and day:

“Verily, As Salaah (the prayer) is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours”[al-Nisaa’ 4:103 – interpretation of the meaning]

The one who abandons prayer has no share in Islam. Whoever neglects it deliberately is a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And remain always) turning in repentance to Him (only), and be afraid and dutiful to Him; and perform As Salaah (Iqaamat as Salaah) and be not of Al Mushrikoon (the polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah)[al-Room 30:31]

 

[rguyah]

Unless one is with a person 24/7, there is no way for you to know if he/she truly does or does not pray 5 times a day. If the person proclaims to be a Muslim, then that must be considered. Allah knows best.

 

[samiha]

True, but some don't hide the fact that they don't pray. However, yes, if they hide their faults you have NO right to expose them.

The Prophet (saws) said : "Suspision is the biggest lie."

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

Salaams sister Samiha

""However, yes, if they hide their faults you have to right to expose them."

Please can you provide evidences for this - I have been taught that a sin is between the sinner and Allah swt and we should not expose our own sins OR those of other people as it leads to disunity amongst the Ummah and the non-believers looking down on us and finding holes within us to pick at. I don't understand how the quote below supports that you can expose your brother or sisters sin:

"The Prophet (saws) said : "Suspision is the biggest lie."

I think the full hadith is this:

"Abu Hurairah ra said that Rasulullah saw said : "Beware ofsuspicion, for suspicion is the greatest falsehood. Do not try to find fault with each other, do not spy on one another, do not vie with one another, do not envy one another, do not be angry with one another, do not turn away from one another, and be servants of Allah, brothers to one another, as you have been enjoined. A Muslim is the brother of a muslim, he does him no wrong, nor does he let him down, nor does he despise him. Fear of God is here, fear of God is here, and he pointed to his chest. It is evil enough thata Muslim should look down on his brother. For every muslim is sacred to one another : his blood, his honour, and his property. Allah does not look at your bodies or your forms, or your deeds, but He looks at your hearts". ( Bukhari, Muslim ) "

I am not tryuing to pick an argument or have a debate I just think I am not understanding you properly and would like some clarification - at the moment another muslim came here for info and advice and we have provided conflicting views which won't help him. Once again sis I am not here for argument or such.

Salaams :blackhijab:

 

[Delyan]

el salam aaleykom

el salam aaleykom

I do believe that someone who doesn't pray deserve yet to receive a sincere salam from his brotherhood : I don't consider that sayin salam may encourage or support in any way someone who doesn't pray to keep on going like this, quite the contrary, we ve to try to stand up as a model...concerning his own acts, we can do our best to help ... only Allah Judges.
sis delyan
wa salam

 

[rguyah]

"...no right to expose them."

Salaams sister Samiha

""However, yes, if they hide their faults you have to right to expose them."

Please can you provide evidences for this - I have been taught that a sin is between the sinner and Allah swt and we should not expose our own sins OR those of other people as it leads to disunity amongst the Ummah and the non-believers looking down on us and finding holes within us to pick at. I don't understand how the quote below supports that you can expose your brother or sisters sin:
Salaams :blackhijab:

It seems that the "...to..." should be a "...no..." as in "However, yes, if they hide their faults you have no right to expose them." It fits grammatically.

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu Alaykum,

We give Salams to ALL people who say they are Muslim . Unless we know for a fact that they disblieve in Allah and in his Messenger

Even if the person does not pray, it is not for us to straightaway call him a disbeliever, or to treat him like a disbeliever. They are indeed sinful, but we n eed to give Advice First !! and explain Islam.

And if need be, a very learned scholar makes these fatwa (Ruling). These are not issues we can look for answers on internet for.

we need to keep our Ummah strong, by giving Da'wah in good way, being kind and gentle to the people who are ignorant of their faith.

True, but some don't hide the fact that they don't pray. However, yes, if they hide their faults you have to right to expose them.

The Prophet (saws) said : "Suspision is the biggest lie."

Assalamu Alaykum, there is no need to expose a fellow Muslim for their sins.

We need to talk gently to them and kindly advise them in private.

If a person is on innovation and is spreading harmful beliefs against Islam, then of course we talk about their mistakes and warn people, but this is not same as a person who sins or is not doing all their religious obligations.

Wasalam

 

[Ahmedkaafi]

still want some proof

Assalam.



Many scholars say that not praying puts a person in a state of kufr (disbelief) this is based on a hadith were the prophet (saws) said, "The only thing that separates a believer from a non-believer is prayer" Not only this, but the Sahaba's of the past didn't consider anything to put a man in the state of kufr except the abandonment of prayer.

Thus, this person cannot be given the Salaam because they are not in the State of Islam. They cannot be married the same way or buried in Muslim cemetaries...

but as it is... there are differences of opinion based on whether the person denys Salah or doen't do it out of lazyness

... since Islam is based on proof, I will try to find all the necessary info. and post it here (Inshallah)

Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The pact between us and them is Salah. Whoever gives it up becomes an unbeliever”. Narrated by Ahmad and Abu Dawood.

Muslim also narrated form Jabir (radianlahuanhu) that Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Between a person and disbelief and polytheism is discarding Salah”.

Abdullah Ibn Shaqiq also says: “the companions of the Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did not consider the abandonment of any act, with the exception of Salah, as being disbelief.” al-Tirmizi reported this Hadith.

The daily five prayers are among the five pillars of Islam. They come right after the proclaiming the two witnesses of Islam. The person who does not perform the prayers has no share in Islam since the

Prophet said: "The pact between us and them is prayer. Whoever abandons it is a disbeliever". [Reported by Imam Tirmizi and he grades it Sahih].

The Prophet also said: "The head of the matter is Islam, its pillar is the prayer and the top of its hump is Jihad in the way of Allah". [Imam Tirmizi and classified it as Sahih].

Whoever abandons some prayers he enters in this ruling of

Allah: "Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell". [19:59]

Allaah has commanded all the believers to guard strictly the observance of the prayers, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Guard strictly (five obligatory) As Salawaat (the prayers) especially the middle Salaah (i.e. the best prayer ‘Asr). And stand before Allaah with obedience [and do not speak to others during the Salaah (prayers)]”[al-Baqarah 2:238]

The five daily prayers are obligatory upon every Muslim man and woman, night and day:

“Verily, As Salaah (the prayer) is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours”[al-Nisaa’ 4:103 – interpretation of the meaning]

The one who abandons prayer has no share in Islam. Whoever neglects it deliberately is a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And remain always) turning in repentance to Him (only), and be afraid and dutiful to Him; and perform As Salaah (Iqaamat as Salaah) and be not of Al Mushrikoon (the polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah)[al-Room 30:31]

Baarakalhu fiika
I agree with u Samiha 100% Brothers and sisters Allah says:- if u differ anything amongst yourselves,refer it to Allah and his messengersaw2: ) if you believe in Allah and last day.that is better and more suitble for final determination V.59:5 samiha jazakalu khayr for your proof and i have another proof,Allah says:-"what has caused to inter hell? they will say." we were not of those who used to offer the Salat(prayers), sadakalahul athiim V.42 and 43:29

So Dear Sister And brothers still i want some proof.:

Wabilahi tofik

 

[zarah]

Assalamu Alaikum

:salam2:

I have to back you up on that answer brother Mabsoot,that is so true.I knew this guy who use to bad mouth Islam and used abusive language and spreaded misconceptions about the religion to his so called friends.

I have spoke as kind as I can be and I have seen improvements.(Alhamdullilah)

 

[rguyah]

Worse than an disbeliever is the Muslim whom is a hypocrite. The Muslim whom is a hypocrite will be in the lowest part of Hell.

It is not right to expose people though. Allah could have exposed the hypocrites to the Prophet but chose to show him how to recognize them instead. We must forgive each other and try to hide each others faults while trying to help rid each other of the faults.

 

[samiha]

Assalam.

True, but some don't hide the fact that they don't pray. However, yes, if they hide their faults you have to right to expose them.

lol, i am quoting myself.

To all my bros and sis i am so srry, I had a typo, it was supposed to be that "IF THEY HIDE THEIR FAULTS YOU HAVE NO right to expose them

srry everyone, i type too fast sometimes and miss what i write.

Even if the person does not pray, it is not for us to straightaway call him a disbeliever, or to treat him like a disbeliever. They are indeed sinful, but we need to give Advice First !! and explain Islam.

True, but what if they reject advice and are arrogant?

Nobody can call another a disbeiver, but sometimes not giving salaam is a type of admonition. There are other greetings, but I feel that the salaam is kinda special.

Now on the other hand, i know some people who refuse some hadith, critisize their own religion, call praying a waste of time etc. they still profess to be a Muslim and they believe in Allah and His Messenger (saws) and that he was a great man. However, I canNOT bring myself to give them salaam. It's an impossibility upon myself, so therefore, it takes more (in my view) than professing that you are a Muslim to deserve the salaam.

And if need be, a very learned scholar makes these fatwa (Ruling). These are not issues we can look for answers on internet for.

Also true, that's why i was very very hesitant in posting here. The sentiments on salaam were not originated from myself, but from others more knowledgeable than I. I found that the statements were logical and so I took them.

Each person differs within themselves, there are degrees of not praying. Some don't pray and hide the fact. We should hide it then also. There are some who don't pray and profess that fact, should they be treated in the same way?

There are others in ambiguity who we should not doubt. There are some who pray to show off, they don't deserve doubt either. Some are too lazy to pray while others deny it.

Each person is different as well as their intensions, so my view is that we should not doubt them at all. If they say they are Muslim give them the salaam. BUT if you find that their atitudes go against all that is Islamic and they don't pray and giving them advise comes to no avail, then I feel they shouldn't be given the salaam.

wassalam.

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

Salaams sister Samiha

Jazak'allah for the clarification on the 'expose their sins' thing - it was not just your typing that led to my confusion, it was also my own fast reading - if I had re-read I probably could have guessed that you meant 'not expose' as it made more sense, apologies.:shymuslima1:

Salaams

Layla

 

[Imad]

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear brothers and sisters,

You have to unite and understand the points of each other.

My brother mabsoot is following the opinion of the scholars who say: " The one who don't pray because of lazyness is a muslim " If i am wrong dear brother mabsoot correct me please.

And sister Samiha does the opposite. She follows the opinion of the scholars who say: " The one who does not pray because of lazyness or denying Salah ( prayer) is a non-muslim ( a kafir)"

So there are difference in opinion which are based on the interpretation of various verses ( Ayaat) and ahadieth.

This is also what our sister Samiha has mentioned:"there are differences of opinion based on whether the person denys Salah or doen't do it out of lazyness"

But she gave only the evidences which are given by those scholars who Samiha Follows . And because she mentioned that there are difference in opinion , I will mention the ahadieth and Quranic verses which are used by the scholars of the first opinion. And the interpretation of the ahadieth and Quranic verses which samiha has mentioned.


--------------


"Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell". [19:59]

Not praying because of lazyness is a major sin following the first opinion. The people who don't pray because of lazyness they can be thrown in Hell. But this does not mean they are not muslim, but Allah can forgive them. It's up to Allah to throw them in Hell and when the Hell has cleaned them from the sins they can be lifted from the hell and put in paradise.

Allah said:

إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًاِ

إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلاَلاً بَعِيدًاِ

{God forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this; one who joins other gods with God, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right).}[4: 116]. This is a translation of the second verse i gave in arabic.

hadieth : Narrated 'Utban bin Malik Al-Ansari: who was one of the men of the tribe of Bani Salim: Allah's Apostle came to me and said, "If anybody comes on the Day of Resurrection who has said: La ilaha illal-lah, sincerely, with the intention to win Allah's Pleasure, Allah will make the Hell-Fire forbidden for him."

And do you know the hadieth of the one who is a muslim and will enter Hell. When he is cleaned from the sins he will be lifted from it and will enter paradise

Narrated 'Ubada:

The Prophet said, "If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Slave and His Apostle, and that Jesus is Allah's Slave and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few." (Junada, the sub-narrator said, " 'Ubada added, 'Such a person can enter Paradise through any of its eight gates he likes.") ( sahih el Bukhari)


Insha Allah if i have time i will go further on this. But i have to make clear that i follow the first opinion like our brother mabsoot.

---------

The one who follows the first opinion he will give salaam to the one who don't pray because of lazyness. He is a muslim regarding his opinion. And the one who follows the second opinion he will not give the salaam, because he don't sees him as a muslim.

This is only a sumary about the difference of opinion based upon difference in interpretation of the ahadieth and Quraan verses.

And dear sister Ruqhya you said: " The Muslim whom is a hypocrite will be in the lowest part of Hell. "

Allah says : "Verily the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths [grade] of the Fire"(4:145

But this are not muslim so be carefull.

 

[samiha]

ok, i am totally confused by all of this...

I just feel that yes, a person can be forgiven for not praying, and yes, that person is a Muslim. And that no, a regular person can't just see someone and judge them as 'you aren't Muslim' or something like that. Everyone deserves benefit of doubt.

Also as Muslims we shouldn't create suspicion or disunity, and we should create excuses for our Muslim bro and sis.

So it’s up for grabs, do what you feel is right. Don’t judge a person quickly, not without talking to them or advising them.

hmm... i knew this was going to be bothersome

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu Alaykum,

JAzakallahu khayr for all contributors, sister Samiha no need to feel confused, Alhamdulillah you made your point well. And it is inline with what many Scholars such as Shaykh Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz (Rahimahullah) and others have stated.

I think this thread has been discussed adequately, alhamdulillah. It is a matter for Scholars to deal with, and not something we should be putting our time to explaining.

So therefore going to close it, to avoid it vering off course.

It is important for our Muslim brothers and sisters to help each other towards good as best we can, and the most important starting point is to teach people about Tawheed. This is the foundation for all our actions, without which we can never succeed.

Wasalam.

Closed.