Catholic priests say Allah

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by Bluegazer, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum,


    To my brothers and sister in Islam, I'd like to begin this post with a section I posted some time ago on a thread titled "US Congress passes Ramadan Bill" [It was post #14]. Please read it again very carefully so that you fully understand my stance:

    Source: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122845&postcount=14


    Having stated the above, I believe the following article will surprise many, and has the potential -God willing- of furthering the propagation of Islam in the West. It's from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation [ABC] website. Note the phrases I coloured red a emphasized in bold type [like this]:

    Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/16/2006421.htm


    There are several points worth mentioning here:


    1- I don't agree with Bishop Tiny Muskens' statement "What does God care what we call him? It is our problem.".


    We know, as Muslims, that Allah has revealed to us 99 of His Names. Therefore, it's important that Muslims use these names.


    Having said that, many Muslims [including scholars] -when speaking to non Muslims- also use the term "God". To read more about this, please click on the following link:

    http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125546&postcount=11


    2- To any Muslims who live in the West and face ignorant remarks such as "Allah means moon", the above statement [of the Catholic Church using the word "Allah" when celebrating Mass in its churches in Indonesia] is a very powerful response [if the person being addressed is a Christian -especially a Catholic-].


    This statement has made headlines. Fox news has hosted a debate between a Muslim Imam [Shamsi Ali of the Jamaica Muslim Center] and a Roman Catholic priest [Jonathan Morris]. Please watch it:

    [yt]pgJ0s1wNEZc[/yt]


    There are two points I'd like to make:

    1- Mr. Jonathan Morris said:


    Several points could be made:

    a) Mr. Morris said, "I have no reason whatsoever to think that Ali here doesn't worship the same God. I don't know if he does or not."


    That shows that he didn't know -or forgot about- the official Catholic Church documents such as the Lumen Gentium, Nostra Aetate and The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly admit that Muslims do worship God. It even says so very explicitly in Nostra Aetate that "they [** meaning Muslims**] value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."


    To view these official Catholic documents and my position concerning them, please click on the following links:

    http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13419&postcount=1
    http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13427&postcount=2
    http://www.imanway.com/en/showpost.php?p=13476&postcount=4


    b) Mr. Morris said, "There's people all over the world right now -and I know Mr. Ali wouldn't [**or would**??] want to agree with this- who are using the word "Allah" in order to refer to a Supreme Being who supposedly invites them or commands them to kill the innocent in his name. If we're looking for a universal word that we can all agree upon, I would suggest we do not use "Allah" so as not to confuse with what's going on. Maybe we could use for example Deus [**am I right in the spelling?**] which is Latin, or really any other thing, of people who are willing to talk to the one God, but the God of peace."


    And my response is to quote to him some Biblical verses, taken from the Roman Catholic New American Bible, which are mentioned in my post #9 of the thread "I need clarification." Please click on following link:

    http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79502&postcount=9


    2- Mr. Jonathan Morris said at the end [after agreeing with Mr. Shamsi Ali who quoted the first verse of the Arabic Bible which contains the word "Allah"]:


    So, Mr. Morris actually said that if he spoke Arabic, he [the Roman Catholic priest] would use the word "Allah", since he stated "If we're going to speak in Arabic, use the word "Allah" "


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum
  2. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    I give up


    I tried the shortest title, and it still doesn't appear in full on the index on the homepage


    If any of the moderators has a way to make the title appear in full, please tell me


    Thank you, and sorry for the inconvenience I caused
  3. lmaestro
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    lmaestro New Member

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    Does it even matter?People will still read it.Why are you doing all this? Im confused
  4. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum Imaestro,


    You wrote the following:


    In my experience, it does matter. When one uses a title that catches the eye and leaves the reader wanting to know more out of curiosity, then the post will get a greater number of hits [i.e., more people will read it].


    And you have to admit, which thread title invites one to read more in a more effective way ?; "Catholic..." [as the thread title now appears on the index in the hompepage] or "Catholic priests say "Allah" ?!" ?


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum
  5. Nazihah
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    Nazihah Be A Stranger

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    Waalaikumsalam,

    Thanx for sharing that Bro. We could see how clearly unwise the priest is. I seem to notice at Fox news that they always try to cut off when a Muslim is trying to speak up and clear matters. I'm wondering whether the viewers noticed that and ever thought about it as to why they did that.
  6. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum sister Nazihah,


    What you said is true. I hope the non Muslim viewers thought about that.
  7. TheHumbleWun
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    TheHumbleWun Banned

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    Salaamalikum,

    Brother you really impress me with your research skills. You always defend your position with supporting evidence.

    Jazakallah Khair
  8. dna1987
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    dna1987 Muslim Guy

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    I think it's a bad idea if Catholic Christians start saying "Allah".

    Why? Because non-catholic Christians have a 'conspiracy' going that Islam was actually founded by the Pope in the 7th century, and use Bahira the Monk as an example and also claim that Khadijah (RA) was part of the scam. If Catholics start adopting this word, it'll just give the evangelicals another angle to push their crappy story forward.

    Salam alaikum.
  9. alkathiri
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    alkathiri As-Shafaa'i(Brother)

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    Thats unlike you bro.

    Great video And did you see the priest folding his hands. Well im no psychologist but the imam did great , he was patient
  10. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum brother alkathiri,


    You quoted my words, "I give up" without really knowing what happened.


    I posted a new thread with the title "Catholic priests say it's alright to say "Allah" ?! ", but the part that appeared on the TurnToIslam homepage index was ""Catholic priests say it's alright to say...".


    You could imagine how frustrated I was. I tried three more times [i.e., I posted three new threads, this one being the last time I tried] and I tried shortening the title each time. It was no use. In fact, the title of this thread originally appeared as "Catholic....." on the homepage index.


    Then brother Happy 2BA Muslim [one of the moderators here] was kind enough to modify the title so that now it appears as "Catholic priests say Allah". May Allah reward him for his help.


    Aameen.

    ----------------------------------

    You wrote:


    Looks like you have a keen eye for such details, brother! I say Mashaa' Allaah! [this is what Allah has willed]. May Allah increase all good qualities in you and protect them.


    Aameen.


    I agree with you that Imam Shamsi Ali was very patient and his response was excellent. I'm not sure I would have been as patient as he was if I was in his position.


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum
  11. alkathiri
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    alkathiri As-Shafaa'i(Brother)

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    :salam2:

    Opps , sorry bro
    JazakAllah khair for your kind words
  12. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    No need to apologize, brother. You didn't say anything offending. And thank you for your consideration and encouragement.
  13. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum brother TheHumbleWun!


    Thank you for your kind words.


    I just have to admit that the "research skills" you kindly referred to are not that hard. With the internet and search engines getting better all the time, it's now much easier to find what you're looking for and to verify it as best as possible.


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum
  14. muslimad
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    muslimad Asalamu Alaykum!

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    jezakallah kheir bro that was some interesting information.

    hmmmm.. i wonder whats driving these changes in non-muslims lately they seem to be more open minded on such issues.
  15. Mabsoot
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    :salam2:
    what would you like title to be?

    anyway, I know lots of catholics, maronites.. who use the name Allah instead of "God" :). Although they are Arabs lol.. Syria, Lebanon and Palestine they speak Arabic and get along well with the Muslim communities.

    I think "God" is relatively new.. perhaps a few centuries at the most. Allah knows best where the word "God" originates. Knowing Anglo Saxon and European history, it might even be from pagan times.

    Allah is the name of our Lord and Creator, and as such this is the name that all the Prophets including our final Messenger :saw: used. This is the beauty of Islam and being Muslim, that we really truly know our Lord.

    "Such is Allaah, your Lord, none has the right to be worshipped but He, the Creator of all things. So worship Him (alone), and He is the Wakeel (Trustee Disposer of affairs, Guradian, etc.) over all things."
    [Quran, Ch. 6, 102; translated meaning]

    "Nothing Is Like Unto Him, and He is the All-Hear, the All-Seer"
    [Quran, Ch. 42, 11; translated meaning]​
  16. lmaestro
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    lmaestro New Member

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    Sorry Bluegazer I didnt mean to be rude, i was just surprise to see those threads .Wonderful topic btw.
  17. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum brother Mabsoot!


    Thank you for your concern. But brother Happy_2BA_Muslim "fixed" the title, so it's alright now.


    About the word "God", I like to use it on this forum along with the name "Allah" so that non Muslims will get used to the idea that we Muslims worship the Lord of Adam, Abraham, Moses and all the other prophets [peace and blessings upon them all].


    There are also other scholars who used the word "God" in the titles of their books. For example, Dr. Bilal Philips is the author of a book titled "The True Religion of God". Click on the following link, and you'll find it details of it among other books he wrote:

    http://www.bilalphilips.com/bilal_pages.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=282


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum
  18. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    No offense taken, lmaestro. You weren't rude. And thank you for your kind remark.
  19. Mahmed322
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    Alhumdulillah brother ali was patient but I didnt like the fact he kept referring to The priest as "Father Morris". Did anyone else have a problem with that?
  20. Bluegazer
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    Bluegazer Junior Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum brother Mahmed,


    I didn't like is as well. He may have done it out of courtesy, since the priest called him "Imam Ali". Still it doesn't make it right.


    If the priest had a higher rank [such as Bishop, Archbishop or Cardinal] then calling him by that title is not such a problem.


    With the term "father", it's different. How can a Muslim call someone else not related to him a "father", especially one who worships others along with Allah [since Christians worship Jesus -peace be upon him- and the Holy Spirit].


    Still, in the heat of the moment, some things might be forgotten. On the whole, Imam Shamsi Ali's response was very good. May Allah reward him.


    Best regards,

    Bluegazer

    Wassalamu Alaikum

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