Eward W Said - Orientalism

[UmmHasanYasmeen]

Bismillah...

Ok...

As Salaamu Alaikum...

Insha'Allah you are all in the best of Health and Eman.. Ameen Ya Rubb...

So Brothers and Sisters, i would like to ask to have a discussion with you all about Edward W Said and his book Orientalism (1978). I am doing assignment called a 'Critique on Edward Said' . Have any of you read his book and what do you think of his ideas?, and how it effects the muslim countires compared to the west?, what are the negative and positive impacts in understanding?
and your thoughts in general on this subject.

Any responces are most welcome..

UmmHasanYasmeen

 

[al-fajr]

:salam2:

ive just started this book, and its a little heavy going but its good

well the criticisms of his work have come mainly from western intellectuals like Nikki Keddie and Bernard lewis and thats cos basically it kind of undermines theyre authority as scholars by saying they have an inherently flawed conception of what eastern people are like, well the notion that 'orientalism' is just a western construct through which western prejudice of the eastern wrld can be justified is one that i find interesting and a good explaination to the imperialist attitudes which definitely exists.

and what makes me cautious of his critics and taking them seriously is that they are all historians/scholars of the mideast and so...they would dislike him wouldnt they.

how it effects the muslim countires compared to the west

i think for the west, it justifies their imperialism or attempts at it, by seeing easterners as potential oil suppliers or potential terrorists fits in too well.

what are the negative and positive impacts in understanding

im interested as to what the positive impacts of this way of looking at things are? unless someone agreed with western imperialism.

like i said i havnt finished the book and it wont be for a while
but im interested as to what other people think.

and what do you think ureself?

wasalam

 

[mnemonicus]

As-Salamu 'Alaykum:

I am familiar with Orientalism. It is a very heavy but important book. You should read it carefully. It will serve you well.

Said's theory is much maligned by Western scholars, of course. It draws heavily from post-modern theories of texts, knowledge, and discourses. It states, generally, that implanted within western "discourse" (a very complex and loaded term with multiple meanings for Said) are assumptions about Islam's "otherness," and a sense of assumed superiority by the Christian West. Ultimately, the otherness that the West assigns to Islam is dehumanizing, allowing it to dominate them, providing a rationale. As you know, this domination has taken on economic, political, social, religious, and military connotations.

This plays into imperialism, and the colonial enterprise in which the West attempted to make ths Islamic world its own. This process was supported by subtle cultural assumptions, the production of knowledge in academia, and political discourse; in short, there were (and are) mechanisms in place in Western culture to maintain and advance "Orientalism."

I place Orientalism, generally, in post-Colonial studies. It is part of a wide corpus of literature that critiques the Western modernist agenda. Among other important works in this field are:

Achebe, Chinua. Things Fall Apart. Johannesburg: Heinemann Publishers, 2000.

A look at Africa first hand, and the real-time manifestations of imperialism driven by orientalism (though this book was written before Orientalism, it touches on many of the Said's themes).

Memmi, Albert. The Colonizer and the Colonized.

Gets at the heart of identity and the orientalism-driven colonial enterprise.

Said, Edward. Culture and Imperialism. New York: Knopf, 1991.

Very much an elaboration of Orientalism and places it in a contemporary, post Cold-War context.

Schueller, Malini Johar. U.S. Orientalisms : Race, Nation, and Gender in Literature, 1790-1890. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1998.

Attempts to identify various mdoes of Orientalism that have remained evident and durable in American culture since its founding, many of which remain today.

I hope this helps you in some fashion.

wa-salaam.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

It has been many many years since I touched the book. I do recall that Dr. Said's name was always in tandem with Joseph Campbell. After reading those two we were directed to understand the psych-philospophy of Carl Jung and his archetypes.
We were bombarded with constructs. We had to analysis to death. This is before the days of deconstructionism.

Embarking upon Islamic literature I discovered there is no need for constructs. Islam is a reality. There are few isms in Islam. Islam has rational, sane, and logical answers on multilevels. Intellectually, nothing compares with Islam. After reading the Muslims, Plato and the like become very transparent.

Islam will never be understood by those who wish to "box" it. It is not to be understood by to be lived. Even in the works of esoteric Islam there is not a need to pin everything down.

I pray I have not muddled your question. I have had respect for Dr. Said. However, I am not a proponent of living life in an Ivory Tower. Our Beloved Prophet (swas) lived life, in the here and the now.

 

[abdallahbilal]

:salam2:
Well sister, although I've read only the introduction to Orientalism, I can be of great help inshallah. I am doing my masters in English Literature and thus I have read most of Said's Culture and Imperialism and read much about Orientalism and the postcolonial and postmodern theoryin general, especially that of Said.

We can summarise Said's standpoints as follows, important terms italicised:

1- He is against totalitarianism and radicalism (whether Christian, Islamic, Communist, etc).

2- He is pro-resistent movements as long as they are not religious or extremely chauvinistic. When an Egyptian girl asked him about Islmic resistence, he stated clearly that he was ANTI-CLERIC. (See Culture and Imperialism - I forgot the page )
However Said expresses that he understands that nationalist and religious movements are the natural outcome of impreialism (see the introduction to the same book).

3- Said severly attacks theories like Huntington's Clash of Civilisation and straightforwardly redicules it as simplistic, racist, and reductive.
See: Edward Said - The Myth of the Clash of Civilizations (YouTube)

4- Edward Said coined the term "Imagined Geographies." A very simple non-scholarly yet deconstructive illustration of it: there is no East or West; they are only representations of separate geographical bodies that Europeans mapped to create a difference between "us" and "them". Why should we look at the globe as it is now? The world is round and there is no problem in reversing the map, and see how directions will be different.

5- Said refuses the idea that a certain culture is homogenous and emphasizes that all cultures are heterogenous. This simply means that the occident can't judge all the orient as bad just because some are bad, the same thing goes for the orient who cant judge the occident as imperialist just because some westerners are.

6- Said emphasizes that the western media and literature have always portrayed the orient as mystic, irrational, licentious, and lustful (harem). Read James Joyce's short story Araby and u will be amazed to how true Said was.

7- Said and many postcolonial writers believe that all forms of knowledge are politicised, even the ones that look neuteral like mathematics. However, literature is number one in this, especially when literature remains approvingly silent on issues like imperialism. Actually this is the most prominent of Said's points and the best example he brings (I guess in Orientalism) is Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, which deals with colonialism as something natural and unworthy of indictment.

8- Said was attacked by some critics for not standing up to his claims and some accused him of being a conspirasy bigot. One of the critiques against him is that he was generalising in his criticism on how the western world makes generalisations on the east. Funny yah!!!


I hope that was useful, and I'm ready to help further..

Bismillah...

Ok...

As Salaamu Alaikum...

Insha'Allah you are all in the best of Health and Eman.. Ameen Ya Rubb...

So Brothers and Sisters, i would like to ask to have a discussion with you all about Edward W Said and his book Orientalism (1978). I am doing assignment called a 'Critique on Edward Said' . Have any of you read his book and what do you think of his ideas?, and how it effects the muslim countires compared to the west?, what are the negative and positive impacts in understanding?
and your thoughts in general on this subject.

Any responces are most welcome..

UmmHasanYasmeen

 

[UmmHasanYasmeen]

As Salaamu Alaykum Dearest Brothers and Sisters,

and thank you for your replies... and well thought out answers...

i have read this book and a great variety of other orientalist works... to complete this assignment.

your answers helped me to gain information on what the muslims themselves say about Edward Said, not just what the west think muslims say about Edward Said...

Ma'Salaama
Umm Hasan