female circumsision

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by muharram23, Nov 25, 2007.

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  1. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    salamu alaykum

    there is two things practiced on females. There is the sunnah circumcission which is not harmful in which there are benefits and also it was practised during the time of resulullah s.vs and he didnt forbid it. Read the statement by the shaykh above in my posting since it also has scientific proofs for those people who dont beleive anything untill they c proofs from science, but than there is the mutilation (which is the total removal of the clitoris) which is harmful and which is practice in many african countries. In islam there is no difference in aibadah between male and female.

    Allah knows best

    Muharram
  2. Abdullah_77
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    Abdullah_77 Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    i was just wondering what is your guys opinion of female circumsision?
    this is widely practised in some muslim countries and some say this is sunnah?
    it may be sunnah but there is research done by doctors that say this is extremely dangerous and harmful for a girl?:girl3:
    how many of you are for or against circumsision for girls?

    .....juz wondering
    :wasalam::SMILY346:
  3. Faisal_01
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    Faisal_01 Art is my Expression

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    You're better off not asking this question and minding your own business. This is extreamly private.

    :wasalam:
  4. Abdullah_77
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    Abdullah_77 Junior Member

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  5. Abdullah_77
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    Abdullah_77 Junior Member

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    to add i was just wondering if this practise should be encouraged or stoppped??


    wa selaam
  6. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    salamu alaykum

    there is nothing wrong in asking this question. There should be no shyness in learning islam. Anyways here maybe this will help you.

    ------------

    Question:
    Is female circumcision sunnah or a bad practice? I read in a magazine that female circumcision in any form is a bad practice that is harmful from a medical point of view, and that it may sometimes lead to sterility. Is this correct?

    Answer:

    Praise be to Allaah.

    Circumcising females is sunnah; it is neither a bad practice or harmful, if it is done within moderation. When extreme forms of female circumcision are carried out, harm may result.



    Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/120 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Question:
    Could you explain me what is the medical benefit of girl’s circumcision?.

    Answer:
    Praise be to Allaah.

    Just as Allaah has created mankind, He has also guided them that which is best suited to their interests in this world and in the Hereafter, so He sent them Messengers and revealed Books to guide mankind to what is good and urge them to follow it, and to teach them what is evil and warn them against it.

    Islam may enjoin or forbid something and the people – or most of them – may not be able to see the wisdom behind this command or prohibition. In that case we are obliged to obey the command or heed the prohibition and to have certain faith that the laws of Allaah are all good, even if we cannot see the wisdom behind them.

    Circumcision is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah, as is indicated by the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, and trimming the moustache." narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257).

    Undoubtedly with regard to the Sunnahs of the fitrah, some of the wisdom behind them is obvious, and that includes circumcision. There are clear benefits to it which we should pay attention to and understand the wisdom behind it.

    In the answer to question no. 9412 we have discussed circumcision, how it is to be done and the ruling on it. In the answer to question no. 7073 we have explained the health and shar’i benefits of circumcision for males.

    Circumcision is prescribed for both males and females. The correct view is that circumcision is obligatory for males and that it is one of the symbols of Islam, and that circumcision of women is mustahabb but not obligatory.

    There are reports in the Sunnah which indicate that circumcision for women is prescribed in Islam. In Madeenah there was a woman who circumcised women and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits.

    Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:

    The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.

    Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.

    Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.

    Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation.

    Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire.

    Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:

    Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the clitoris is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy” i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the clitoris) and its nerves.

    From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).

    The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):

    For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.

    Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:

    It takes away excessive libido from women

    It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.

    It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections

    It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.

    In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:

    With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.

    And Allaah knows best.
  7. Abdullah_77
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    Abdullah_77 Junior Member

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    thank you muharaam for that iinfo...i was just curious..

    jezekallauhu khayr
  8. Faisal_01
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    Faisal_01 Art is my Expression

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    Yeah, this isn't the best place for you to post something like this. I understand that you are curious, and want to find out as do I also. However, this topic is very personal topic and not appropriate for a religious website. You should stop posting about this topic before some sisters here gets offended, even though you don't mean any harm. Some people are more sensitive than others and take things very seriously and are quick to take offense to most things.

    Try Google.com instead :D
    :wasalam:
  9. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    Salamu alaykum

    like i said, there is no shyness in learning things in the deen whether they are personal or not. The sahabiyeen (women sahabi) used to come and ask resulullulah sv.s questions that are really private quetions about sex,menses, nifaas even about circumcission as you can read above. That is why a lot of muslim women dont know much before they get married, because everytime they asked their moms questions about this and that, the moms used to say "dont ask me that". The brother just wanted to know if is allowed in islam or not. Plus im sure in the schools everyone learn and talks about way worse stuff than this. BarakAllahu feek

    Allah knows best

    assalamu alaykum
    Muharram al-bosnii
  10. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    wa iyyake akhi

    assalamu alaykum
  11. Faisal_01
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    Faisal_01 Art is my Expression

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    Brother,

    I understand where you are coming from. But you have to realize this is a public forum. If you have a question about things like this, you ask someone privately. I mean really, do you expect a sister to post here and say "I have been circumsized" or " No I have not been circumsized" and then tell the reason why? I mean I know he was just asking because he was curious, and I am also because I never knew about this topic. But, that doesn't defeat the fact that this is in fact a very private matter. I have nothing against this topic, I'm just looking out for everyone. You have to remember that we have some elderly sisters here and they may find this topic offensive. You don't have to sacrifice knowledge but its better in this case to look elsewhere.

    :wasalam:
  12. muharram23
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    muharram23 New Member Staff Member

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    I understand that too, but where did he ask "are any sisters here circumcized'? what i can see from the question is "how many of you are for or against circumsision for girls? He is asking how many are for or against, and not who here is cirumcizized. If he did, i would say the same thing that u did. :) I love u for the sake of Allah faisal.

    Wa aleykumusselam
  13. Faisal_01
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    Faisal_01 Art is my Expression

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    Thank you. He edited the question and I was just speaking about that. He had that question of who is circumsized or not before the edit. Now that its edited, it doesn't seem very offensive anymore.

    No hard feelings :D

    :wasalam:
  14. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    :salam2:

    He asked for the sake of knowledge, not as a personal affront or question at any sister or another so I think it's ok.

    We've had this topic before: Circumsision in Islaam

    wasalam
  15. ShyHijabi
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    Salaam,

    I get a bit confused when I hear that female circumcision is Sunnah. I was under the impression that Sunnah meant an action or saying of the Prophet. However the hadith in question prescribes limitations on female circumcision only if the people choose to circumsize their daughter. No where have I read an authentic hadith that states you MUST circumsize your daughter.

    The fitrah in question (circumcision) I thought applied to males because a foreskin is less hygenic on males...on females there is no increase risk of infection or cancer as with makes who are uncircumcised.

    Furthermore countries such as Egypt have issued fatwas forbiddening the practice of female circumcision so this disputes the arguement that female circ'ing is agreed on by all scholars (as posted in the link from the earlier thread)

    Wasalaam

    ~Sarah
  16. lostlilly07
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    lostlilly07 striving 4 Firadous

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    I couldn't watch the video.........I kept imaging how painful it could be.......Allah Aalam
  17. nyerekareem
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    nyerekareem abdur-rahman

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    :salam2:

    this has been a very interesting thread. despite a few members believing that the topic should not be posted on this site. it's important to discuss this topic because non-muslims are discussing this topic about muslims in regards to the treatment of women in islam. this topic or the islamic stance in regards to female circumcision is little known amongst many muslims. this lack of knowledge has caused many muslims to dodge the question when it is asked to them about female circumcision. or some muslims are ashamed of the practice because so many non-muslims have spoken out so loudly against it.

    it was very interesting to read some of the benefits of the procedure. it was interesting because one never hears of any benefit when this subject is brought up. it's almost 10 out of 10 spoken of in terms of harm and danger for the woman. the topic has always been unbalanced and sympathetic to the western view on the medical procedure. as an american, i know that there is an arrogance amongst americans, in that we believe that only our doctors or scientists are right on matters such as these. that doctors from non-white countries can't possibly correct or teach us anything new in terms of medicine. although the practice on women isn't mandatory, i can now see the logic in someone wanting it to be done. the earlier posting of hadith in this thread has proven that Muhammad:saw: did not approve of extremism in the practice of circumcision, which means that there is a non-harmful way of performing the practice.

    for the non-muslim concerned with women's rights in islam; female circumcision is the defining issue for them, just like homosexuality is the defining issue for christians as to whether or not the words in the bible are true or not. with this being said, non-muslim women or those non-muslims that are concerned with women's rights in islam, should ask muslim women that are mature in their deen, what life is like being a muslim woman. we have FOX,SKY,CNN,BBC,ITN news channels telling us how muslim women feel, while they provide no muslim women for their reporting. interesting....

    :wasalam:
  18. ShyHijabi
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    Salaam,

    Could you please post a link that discusses the benefits (physically) from circumcising a female? I have read numerous abstracts on the research performed on the medical effects of female circumcision (written by Muslim doctors and nonMuslim doctors) and have never read any benefits medically speaking.

    ~Sarah
  19. arabiantxn
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    I they should merge this thread and close it .
    I guess I backup Faisal_01 on this one. It’s a bit personal. It doesn't apply to any brother.
  20. nyerekareem
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    nyerekareem abdur-rahman

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    :salam2:

    i don't have any links on the subject. i read the info from a post here on this site. here is what was posted:

    The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):

    For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.

    Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:

    It takes away excessive libido from women

    It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.

    It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections

    It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.

    In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:

    With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.

    And Allaah knows best.

    it's not as detailed as you would probably like it, for i see that you are in med school; but i thought it was interesting.

    :wasalam:
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