How to argue with the shiai!!

[MahyarEL-Prince]

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatoh.
May Allah curse those who curse the sahabah, and may Allah increase all those who follow the Quran and the sahih hadiths that desrcibe the actions/lifestyle of the rasool Sall Allahu ta'ala alayhis wa salam.

Anyways dear brothers I have made this thread inshallah to show you a couple ways to corner the shiai, and force them to say "The Quran has been changed" When dealing with a shiai you can not use Sahih bukhari/Muslims.
They can not use their hadiths because we will always say "fabricated"

Anyways start with the most basic question. When did the shiais start, what does shia mean etc.
Shia means Group/sect/Men thinking in the same way. (According to my egyptian brother) I know you all know where I am going with this first one.
Al-An'am 6:159
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

The signifigance of this ayat is not just the "divide their religion and break in to sects" It's the Arabic word Allah azzawajal uses for Sect, it's Shiai.
So clearly we see Allah say "Do not make your religion in to shiai" Thats a huge contradiction, I have yet to hear what a shia has to say about this. They try saying The Quran says shia, with Moses and his companion , and Abraham, but they never quote this verse.

Next is....
Tawbah 9:40
"If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."
The word Allah ta'ala uses for companion is sahabi. It's a fact that ABu Bakr Saddiq was the companion in the cave with the rasool. Im pretty sure shiais even agree that Ali (ra) was sleeping in the bed in the prophet.
Anyways If Alah calls one a sahabi then who is given the right to curse him. Also this would mean the Rasool had bad judgement.

If they say No no the Quran has been changed from abu bakr and uthman. Then always bring the verse Allah says "We will be it's gaurdians" So either the must accept the Quran or say it's fake the mahdi will bring it, and they scoop down to saying their mahdi will bring the rest, then honestly they are a peolpe full of ignorance, and the Fire is their refuge, they will abide therin for ever.
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatoh.

Before I go dear brothers I know the shias are still muslims, but don't take them as your friends. Their aqeedah is far worse then ours, they believe their mahdi will come and kill us and whip Abu bakr and uthman, after he resserects them....
So.. it's your call La ilaha Ill ALlah any questions on shiaism ask me !!

 

[Abdul25]

:salam2:

brother whatever .. these people dont understand.. they keep arguing..they dont want to listen..
too many times it happened we came so close to fight with one an other ..
they wont listen and keep abusing the respected sahabas.

you can call them muslims.. but for me they are non muslims .

w salam.

 

[ahmed_indian]

:salam2:,

brother, i think that instead of thinking to beat them, we should think how to bring true Islam to victory. as when Truth comes, falsehood perishes. them more u'll challenge them, the more they'll become arrogant.

secondly, shias have many categories. some are out of Islam while some are muslims but innovators. and rafidi shias are worse as they curse sahaba (ra).

a pious salafi told that in one aspect shias are worse then jews and christians. jews say that sahaba of Musa (as) were best, christians say that sahaba of jesus (as) were best but shias say that sahaba of Muhammed (peace be upon him) were worst.

may Allah keep us under His shade. ameen

 

[Dr.Khan]

:salam2:


JazakAllah for this information. Keep it coming! Anything that will benefit us, just keep it coming.
I think you should join the forum Shiachat. In there, there is a Sunni-Shia Dialogue.. go there and help some brothers out!

And for those who say we shouldn't be concentrating on this.. I think first we need to get rid of evil, only then can we prosper. If we manage to show them they are wrong, then we can automatically become united. There is no other way in being united again.

 

[MahyarEL-Prince]

The whole shia sect is originated by a Jew. I actually feel like the Jews have planned this and if you think about it... What country in the middle east other then israel has the MOST jews in it......... 5 4 3 2 1...............
Well it's the country with the MOSt shia in the world, which runs on shia shariah, IRAN
Yes Jews in Iran are honoured.
Why? Abdallah ibn sa'ba was a Jew and the originator, the first person to claim Ali's divinity. It's even in bukhari. It's also proven through Jewish history.

I find it highly unlikely the sahabas were the best of companions, but right when Muhammad died they all went nuts... Ughh sorta weird eh? they went through the worst torment abandonned their homes everything for Islam, and at once they didn't give Ali the successorship? and Ali didin't even fight them or anything for it? What is this?
It seems illogical that Allah azza wa jal would do something like so early in Islam..

 

[arzafar]

yeah that's nice strategy that muslims can use to defend themselves. but shiaism is so filled with hate and revenge that it's these people can not base opinions on reason. Basically they have their hate and then tehy just twist the facts and mold them into religion.

 

[MahyarEL-Prince]

:salam2:

brother whatever .. these people dont understand.. they keep arguing..they dont want to listen..
too many times it happened we came so close to fight with one an other ..
they wont listen and keep abusing the respected sahabas.

you can call them muslims.. but for me they are non muslims .

w salam.

Ok I agree with you now, They don't understand. They are no different then Jews actually.
Only Allah can guide them, may Allah curse them in thise life and the hereafter. (I know thats harsh but I don't take it back)

 

[slaveofAllah88]

aslam o aliakum

its a very beneficial and important post Mashallah, JazakAllah khair for posting.

i want to learn more from u brother

 

[Dr.Khan]

You cannot be rational with the Shi'a.

1) What kind of rationality is this that whips its skin with metal and fire?
2) Money by the millions are being spent on the dead, is this rationality?
3) Claiming that that there's a person (12th Imaam) who is absent for thousands of years and in his name, the fifth's of people's wealth are being taken, is this rationality?
4) Raising the picture of al-Hussain (Ra), and imagining him as the Christians imagine the Virgin Mary PBUH, is this rationality?

?هذا العقلاني (hope I said it right, hehe trying to learn some arabic)
They speak of desire, not rationality.

 

[Abu Talib]

You can't beat them it won't effect them cause they are used to beating themselves up..lol

 

[MahyarEL-Prince]

I also want to state that the main difference, (in case anyone dosn't know) isn't really about the whole abu bakr situation (ra).
Besides them dissing all the sahabahs, and companions of the prophet besides about 3-5 of them. They believe their 12 Imams Ali hussein etc are all infallable.
Dear brothers/sisters if you don't know what infallable means it means they can not commit an error.
Who is the only one me and you know that can not commit error? Allah azzawajal
They also beleive their 12 imams have knowledge of the unseen.
Who is the only one with knowledge of the unseen? Allah azzawajal.
Surah Hud ayat 13. The messenger of Allah says
"I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor claim I to be an angel. Nor yet do I say, of those whom your eyes do despise that Allah will not grant them (all) that is good: Allah knoweth best what is in their souls: I should, if I did, indeed be a wrong-doer."
So lets back up a second.. if the Rasool (saws) says I don't have knowledge of the hidden why in Gods name would Allah ta'ala give knowledge of the unseen to the 12 imaams and not his beloved prophet Muhammad (saws) This is so illogical... He gives Ali and his descendents knowledge of the unseen?
They also believe their imams choose when and were to die. We know in sahih Bukhari the rasool(saws) said the things no man knows besides Allah (with a list of things sorry no source) "When and where you will die, how much money you will get in your life, if you die a believer or kaffer, etc"

 

[MahyarEL-Prince]

I also wanted to add this fact which we believe but the shiai's CLEARLY don't believe.
The man who originated shiaism is Abdalillah ibn sa'ba (may Allah drive him in to saqqar - Lowest part of jahannam)
In sahih bukhari it is mentioned that he claimed that Ali was God According to Jewish Encyclopedia :
Abdallah ascribed divine honors to him by addressing him with the words, "Thou art Thou!" Thereupon Ali banished him to Madain. After Ali's assassination Abdallah is said to have taught that Ali was not dead but alive, and had never been killed; that a part of the Deity was hidden in him; and that after a certain time he would return to fill the earth with justice.
He is a figuire in Jewish history wikipedia him....
Anyways this guy went around telling people Ali is God hes alive and the shiais were beliving he was God in early stages of Islam. Anyways brothers they are a dangerous sect,
Just remember all the times in the Quran where Allah ta'ala says "Where are your intercessors you glorified besides me"
On the day of Judgment Allah will say Invoke those you invoked on Earth, and they invoke them but they will not help them, because they themselves are helpless!!
There are no intercessors besides Allah and what he wills, so on earth we must old pray to Allah and only ask Allah for help not the graves not shrines and not "ya ali" or "ya reza"
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatoh.
Allahu alum

 

[Ayyub]

:salam2:


Here a few false facts from the Shiism:

“Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (Shi’a), you have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.” [Quran 6:159], {إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ}, Transliteration: 'Inna Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan Lasta Minhum Fī Shay'in 'Innamā 'Amruhum 'Ilá Allāhi Thumma Yunabbi'uhum Bimā Kānū Yaf`alūna

In authoritative Shiite texts, its states:

“The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them.” (Al-Kulaini, Al-Kaafi, p.260).

“The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed” (Ibid, p.227).

“The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice” (Ibid, p.258).

“All of the earth belongs to the Imams.” (Ibid, p.407).

There are many aspects of faith in Shiism that oppose Islam and which render a person out of its fold. Due to this reason, Muslims do not consider Shiism to represent Islam, but rather believe it to contradict the very basics of Islamic teachings.

The Shiites, however, have a different ‘testimony of faith’. They not only negate it meanings, as shown in the previous articles by associating others with God, but they have also added certain principles nowhere to be found in authentic texts. Their shahaadah comprises of the statement: "none deserves worship but God, and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger, and Ali is His beloved and chosen one, and successor to the Prophet" [1].

It was the Prophets who received revelation, and due to the fact that Muhammad, may God praise him, was the last prophet, there will be no other Scriptures revealed after the revelation of the Quran. The Shiites however, believe that there was a scripture revealed after the Quran before the death of the Prophet, which they call the ‘Tablet of Fatimah’. They claim, that in it were the names of all those who were to be their Imams in the future[6].

It comes even better when you read about who will be the followers of the Dajjal:
The followers of the Dajjaal

Most of the followers of the Dajjaal will be from among the Jews, Persians and Turks, and a mixture of other people, mostly Bedouins and women.

Imaam Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (5237) from Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: «The followers of the Dajjaal from among the Jews of Isfahaan will number seventy thousand, wearing heavy, striped garments.” According to a report narrated by Imaam Ahmad, “Seventy thousand Jews, wearing crowns.” [hadeeth no. 12865].

Pesians=a big part of the Shia cult.

By knowing this everyone should be able to challenge and defeat the Shia's with their own inlogic:
The original textes can be found here:
http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=article&id=627
http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=article&id=628

For whoever understands the arabic language I would recommend to you to listen to the lectures of Sheikh Muhammed Zoghbi who is specialised in prooving the Shia wrong and through his lectures many Shiit's came back to the true light of Islam.

Hope it will be useful to you.

 

[DanyalSAC]

Hm. I thought we weren't suppose to argue.

 

[Waseem203]

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