I Am A Muslim Woman

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
Hello Joe, the examples that you gave of abuse of women go totally against what the Quran and the sunnah teach. And if you were to have an inkling of knowledge about Islam you will understand why the majority of people who accept Islam in the West are Women. This website is a testamony to that as most of our members are indeed women.

ANd i find it ironic that Joe comes here to bash Muslims and preaches from the bible in support of his own views. Also, misrepresents the status of women in Western Christian society.

Christian Women could not divorce in Europe. Remember King Henry and his 7 wives? His Christian faith would not allow him to divorce, so what did he do to Divorce them? He had 2 of them executed! - Oh, and the last witch was killed in the 18th Century.

English Witches 1735 Witchcraft Act

81 people from Prestonpans who were killed during the witchcraft trials of the 16th and 17th century.

American Witches!

Salem Witch Trials 1692

It was the result of a period of factional infighting and Puritan witch hysteria which led to the deaths of 20 people (14 women, 6 men) and the imprisonment of 150 more people.

Infact, women were seen and still are seen as sexual objects. They are seen as the carriers of Eve's sins. They are seen as temptresses and evil


We are not even talking the middle Ages, but relatively recently.

There have been a few history lessons you have obviously missed out on:
There would not have been suffrage or the great "emancipation" movement that occurred in the 20th Century!

Get your Facts right first:

Property Rights of Women in Nineteenth-Century England

English Law:

- A married woman has no legal existence whether or not she is living with her husband;

- her property is his property;

- she cannot make a will, the law gives what she has to her husband despite her wishes or his behavior;

- she may not keep her earnings

- he may sue for restitution of conjugal rights and thus force her, as if a slave to return to his home;

-she is not allowed to defend herself in divorce

- she cannot divorce him since the House of Lords in effect will not grant a divorce to her;

- she cannot sue for libel;

In short, as her husband, he has the right to all that is hers; as his wife she has no right to anything that is his. (33)

The property rights of women during most of the nineteenth century were dependent upon their marital status. Once women married, their property rights were governed by English common law, which required that the property women took into a marriage, or acquired subsequently, be legally absorbed by their husbands. Furthermore, married women could not make wills or dispose of any property without their husbands' consent. Marital separation, whether initiated by the husband or wife, usually left the women economically destitute, as the law offered them no rights to marital property. Once married, the only legal avenue through which women could reclaim property was widowhood. Women who never married maintained control over all their property, including their inheritance. These women could own freehold land and had complete control of property disposal. The notoriety of the 1836 Caroline Norton Case highlighted the injustice of women's property rights and influenced parliamentary debates to reform property laws. The women's movement generated the support which eventually resulted in the passage of the Married Women's Property Law in 1882. England's mid-nineteenth century focus on married women's property rights culminated in the transformation of the subordinate legal status of married women.

ISLAM Does Not Forbid Women from having an Individual Status. She is not The Property of her husband.

She has the Right to divorce, keep her money and spend it as she wishes, she has the right to education, right to be provided for by her husband properly, right to work. Many Rights. I Suggest You look at My Signature to Learn More!

:hijabi: The Status of Women in Islam :hijabi:
 

Imad

Junior Member
Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear sisters and brothers.

Hello JoePierre

Some statements from the bible. See Genesis 3:16 (New International Version):
--------------------------
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=3&verse=16&version=31&context=verse
----------------------

Can you please explain for me joe the statement about the man who has to rule over the woman. It's from the bible.

Thank you,

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear brothers and sisters.
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
Assalamu Alaykum to all my sis and bros.

I just wanted to say to Jenn that her poem was Mashallah beautiful. I really dislike how people are going away from the point of the thread which was to read a poem by a Muslim woman about HER feelings. If others want a clearificaiton I feel they should go make a different thread and not do it there.

I am liberated by Islam. NO man can say he feels that that is not the case, because HE IS A MAN, and he probably hasn't given Islam a fair chance.
 

joepierre

New Member
reply to Omar

So Joe, your source is the Bible? Then the crusaders, the inquisition, the holocaust, slavery, colonialism must have been all granted by the Bible, by your theory, that is; but fortunately, your argument is a joke. First of all, In Britain, MEN who didn't own property didn't even get the right to vote in Britain until 1868 when Benjamin Disraeli decided to give some 3 million British MEN the right to vote under pressure from the Liberal movement led by William Gladstone, who still beat Disraeli in the 1868 election, so WOMEN weren't even in the conversation for any rights whatsoever, so Joe pls, pls. Everybody knows that Women DID NOT get any property inheritance and divorce rights until mid 20th century in the West compare to Islam which gave women all of these rights and more 1400 years ago. So please, Joe, educate yourself before you embarrass yourself to the rest of the world.


Omar, please don't get mad, we are all friends here right?
My use of the Bible was not to make any logical statements about holocaust or slavery or anything else. I was only referring to it as an early example of women owning property in a non-muslim context. that is all. Any assertion that I support any of the events you mentioned is dishonest of you.
(on a side note, I don't think the Bible does either. If it does, pls show me chapter and verse)

I notice you have also been dishonest with the quote from our sister. She talked about needing her husband to sign the back of a bank cheque. You turned that into a statement that 'women in Britain could not own property' till the 1960s which is not true. It is not good enough to say 'everyone knows'. I asked a western lawyer who studied english law. Here is a reference to Maryland state law (which though is American would have resembled English law at the time). http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/m...2900/sc2908/000001/000060/html/am60p--26.html
Please note this refers to single women owning property and clearly refers to a 'woman of some property' in the 1600s. I am not talking about married women's property law, just correcting the inaccurate statements you made.

All this is beside the point though, of my original question, which no-one has had a crack at. Where did Sister Jean (who wrote the poem) get her rights to drive a car, own a business, get an education?
All good things come from Allah, but in this case (if she lives in America, which I think she does), is it not true that Allah gave her the rights using Christians? It was they who fought for them in that country, not Muslims.
Please note again, I am talking in Sister Jenn's context only. Please don't accuse me of saying that all women's rights ever have been gained by Christians! we know that is not true.
Peace.
 

joepierre

New Member
Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear sisters and brothers.

Hello JoePierre

Some statements from the bible. See Genesis 3:16 (New International Version):
--------------------------
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=3&verse=16&version=31&context=verse
----------------------

Can you please explain for me joe the statement about the man who has to rule over the woman. It's from the bible.

Thank you,

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear brothers and sisters.

Hello Imad, thankyou for your question, and the polite and civilised way you put it.
The passage you quote is from very early in the Bible, right after Adam and Eve first sinned. The passage is part of the curse or punishment that is a result of the first sin. Both Adam and Eve are cursed, not just Eve as many people think (see Genesis 3:17).
This verse is part of a punishment or curse, it is a prediction of what will occur, but it is not a statement of how things should be. This is the unfortunate consequences of human sin, not a guide to how people should live.

It seems strange that Allah would curse people, but later he deals with it by taking the curse on himself. Isaiah 53:5-6 "He was wounded and crushed because of our sins by taking our punishment he has made us completely well. All of us were like sheep that had wandered off, we had gone our own way, but the Lord gave him the punishment we deserved"

and later, from Romans 3:24 "God treats us much better than we deserve, and because of Christ Jesus, he freely accepts us and sets us free from our sins. God sent Christ to be our sacrifice. Christ offered his life's blood, so that by faith in him we could come to God".

Thus according to the Bible, people are cursed and later forgiven by God and the curse will be undone, therefore, according to the Bible, men should not rule over women.

Thanks,

Wassalmoelaikoem
 

joepierre

New Member
Hello Joe, the examples that you gave of abuse of women go totally against what the Quran and the sunnah teach. And if you were to have an inkling of knowledge about Islam you will understand why the majority of people who accept Islam in the West are Women. This website is a testamony to that as most of our members are indeed women.

ANd i find it ironic that Joe comes here to bash Muslims and preaches from the bible in support of his own views. Also, misrepresents the status of women in Western Christian society.

Hello Mabsoot,
Thankyou for your reply. I will read the links.
I agree the examples I gave go against the Quran and sunnah, that is why I am appauled that they occur in Muslim countries!

I am definately not here to bash Muslims or Islam! please forgive me if you think I have done this. I simply want to see all people on earth treated fairly and justly and as Allah wills. If Christians have violated Allah's laws, I will point it out to them and resist them. If Muslims have done the same thing, I will also point it out to them and resist them too. I am not bashing anyone, simply trying to understand Allah's will and follow it.

I am not trying to preach from the Bible. Read my last post to Omar for my use of it there. As for Imad, I have just answered his question to the best of my knowledge that Allah has generously given to me. If that is preaching, then any quote (including Imad's) is also.
Peace.
 

OmarTheFrench

Junior Member
Thus according to the Bible, people are cursed and later forgiven by God and the curse will be undone, therefore, according to the Bible, men should not rule over women.

Thanks,

Wassalmoelaikoem

According to bible or to you ?

But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.

Corinthians 11-3


" A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. 4 She must be quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."

Timothy 2 11-15
 

joepierre

New Member
Reply to Omar

According to bible or to you ?

But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.

Corinthians 11-3


" A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. 4 She must be quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."

Timothy 2 11-15

The Bible can be made to say things contrary to Christianity if quoted out of context. In a similar way, the Qu'ran can be made to say things against Islam if quoted out of context. Nevertheless, you have correctly quoted the above verses and they deserve an answer. I will do my best.

Being the head does not have to involve domination or injustice. Indeed the Bible says man should love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (ie men should be willing to die for their wives).

The Timothy passage is in a letter from Paul advising Timothy on how to run the church where he was located. It was in an area with a large pagan fertility cult running where the common practice was for women to dominate and rule over men. The christians were to be noticably different from the surrounding society, hence Paul's instructions in this case. In other of Paul's letters it is clear that women were talking and prophecying in church and this was commended.

Eve was decieved (by the serpent in Genesis), but they both sinned. Adam sinned by knowingly joining Eve in her sin. The bible is adamant about this - Romans 3:23: "for all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory"

As for childbirth, the pagan background of the believers taught that women should go involve themselves in idol worship in order to give birth or they would be in danger, thus Paul reassures them that she will be safe in the care of God.

I hope this helps.
Peace.
 

OmarTheFrench

Junior Member
Being the head does not have to involve domination or injustice. Indeed the Bible says man should love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (ie men should be willing to die for their wives).

This doesn't explain: "But I want you to know that Christ is NOT the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.

Corinthians 11-3"

But I don't want harass you ;)
 

samiha

---------
Staff member
sis alhamdulillah, bro Omar was quoting from the Bible, not giving opinion.

The not doesn't belong there, as it is a quote.

Wassalam.
 

Imad

Junior Member
Hello Imad, thankyou for your question, and the polite and civilised way you put it.
The passage you quote is from very early in the Bible, right after Adam and Eve first sinned. The passage is part of the curse or punishment that is a result of the first sin. Both Adam and Eve are cursed, not just Eve as many people think (see Genesis 3:17).
This verse is part of a punishment or curse, it is a prediction of what will occur, but it is not a statement of how things should be. This is the unfortunate consequences of human sin, not a guide to how people should live.

It seems strange that Allah would curse people, but later he deals with it by taking the curse on himself. Isaiah 53:5-6 "He was wounded and crushed because of our sins by taking our punishment he has made us completely well. All of us were like sheep that had wandered off, we had gone our own way, but the Lord gave him the punishment we deserved"

and later, from Romans 3:24 "God treats us much better than we deserve, and because of Christ Jesus, he freely accepts us and sets us free from our sins. God sent Christ to be our sacrifice. Christ offered his life's blood, so that by faith in him we could come to God".

Thus according to the Bible, people are cursed and later forgiven by God and the curse will be undone, therefore, according to the Bible, men should not rule over women.

Thanks,

Wassalmoelaikoem

Thank Joepierre,

But you have to know that Allah subhanahu wata3ala didn't curse Adam and Eva. They repented for their sin and He forgave them. So no sin and no curse.

[B]“Then Adam received Words (of forgiveness) from his Lord, and he accepted his repentance. Verily, He is the One Who repeatedly accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.” (Quran 2:37)
[/B]

When you said about the curse it's forgiven after Jesus has been wounded and crushed ( in your opinion), I thought :"What about the people before Jesus in your opinion".

The Quraan gives us the answer.

“Say: ‘O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of God, indeed God forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.’” (Quran 39:53)


In your opinion jesus is wounded and crushed for our sins, but the bible teaches ( and this a contradiction) that no one is punished for the sins of others but only for his sin (Deuteronomy 24:16).

and read what Allah teaches us:

“No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another.” (Quran 6:164)

Is it fair to put someone else in jail to forgive others. Allah can forgive every sin without punishing other who had no sin.

Thank you

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear brothers and sister
 

newusman

Muslim
Nice Poem Sister.

You are a free woman - Living in America I presume?
Who gave you that freedom and what are you going to do with that freedom? (these are rhetorical).

Will you help your sisters who do not have opportunity to go to college and major in anything? those who are prevented from going to school in the name of Islam? (Afghanistan).
Will you help those sisters who are cheated and abused? - whose punishment for talking to a 12 year old boy is sanctioned gang rape? (Pakistan 2002)
Will you help those women who are not allowed by law to drive their chevys to achieve such a priviledge? (Saudi Arabia)
Will you fight for the rights of women who are not even allowed to work - let alone run their own business? (Afghanistan during Taliban rule, and again now in many parts of the country)
Will you help women acheive equality to any male where they are not considered equal? (Pakistan, 1 male witness = 2 female witnesses in court)

Finally, will you acknowledge that the freedoms and rights you mention and take for granted were fought for - mostly by Christians - to bring them to the country you call home. You are welcome to them. They are for all people.

Food for thought I hope.

Thanks.
JP

Firslty I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Following are the answers to your queries
1) Will you help your sisters who do not have opportunity to go to college and major in anything? Those who are prevented from going to school in the name of Islam? (Afghanistan).
Answer:
• There were and are no proper schools, colleges or universities in Afghanistan since the cold war period, so what kind of schools or colleges are you talking about
• You make it sound as if all the Afghan male population went to schools and colleges and they are all literate while the females stayed at home (as according to you they were “prevented from going to school in the name of Islam.” Well if Afghanis male were literate then they wouldn’t be occupied by US and NATO forces and they won’t have warlords ruling over them.
• Muslims in Afghanistan don’t even have proper food to eat, they don’t have clean water to drink, they don’t have medicine to treat the ill and they have been in a state of war since 1979, you really don’t expect them to go university in such a state (regardless of gender).
• Yeah InshALLAH I would like to help my sisters in Afghanistan by first stopping the indiscriminate killing of civilians.

2) Will you help those sisters who are cheated and abused? - whose punishment for talking to a 12 year old boy is sanctioned gang rape? (Pakistan 2002)
Answer:
• Well taking a one off incident from Pakistan really doesn’t mean that the Pakistani govt. has a law to gang rape women who talk with men over the phone. Firstly whoever did this should be brought to justice.
• If I were to look at statistics then let’s have a look at stats of U.S where every 9 seconds a women is assaulted or beaten. 4000000 women a year are assaulted by their partners, everyday 4 women are murdered by boyfriends or husbands. To have a look at more click on http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/stats.htm
• Oh yeah and lets not forget Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo bay and also lets keep in mind the US soldiers involved in the GANG RAPE of a 14 year old Muslim girl in IRAQ. All of this is from the DEFENDERS of the “Free Society”.
• Sexual Abuse By Military Recruiters
More Than 100 Women Raped Or Assaulted By Recruiters In Past Year http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/19/national/main1913849.shtml

3 & 4) Will you help those women who are not allowed by law to drive their chevys to achieve such a priviledge? (Saudi Arabia) ,
Will you help women acheive equality to any male where they are not considered equal? (Pakistan, 1 male witness = 2 female witnesses in court)
Answer:
• Well if Saudi women (by majority) don’t have a problem, for not being allowed to drive, then who are you to question? With my own experience in Saudi, women are given respect and taken care of more I have ever seen before, the male has to do everything, while literally the women is the Queen of the house.
Following has been taken from this website. Do visit it to clear you misconceptions and for a detailed explanation.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html
• “Men and women are different in their responsibilities towards the families that they are strongly encouraged to set up. Women are not obligated to work, whereas men are obligated. The man must provide for the family, but the woman does not have to spend out of her money for it, though she gets a reward for doing so. Allah says in the Qur'an (translation),

[4:34] Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. “

For more detail on the women driving issue click on the following link
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=45880&ln=eng&txt=women driving

One of the things to be noted is that none of the Muslim majority countries or the so called sharia countries these days follow sharia in totality.
Thanks
 

azlina_sam

Junior Member
Lovely poem

Assalamualaikum Sister,

Lovely poem you've composed... :)

:muslim_child:

Wassalam
Azlina Sam
Singapore
 

haqa

New Member
TearfulEyes,
The Crusades were not to do with individual freedoms or rights, so they don't prove anyone's point. Unfortunately your example is wrong. Women in Britain could own property and open bank accounts from the 1800's. Please check your source.

To Samiha
You are right about men and women being different, and therefore talk of equality is, of course, somewhat erroneous. I was talking of equality before the law.
Let Islam bring justice! let it bring justice to Pakistan courts!

Mr.

I`m asking you whether u have full informations about crusades or no? If not , read more, then u can see who and why have organised these shamefull war. Even some non muslims admit that the cristians should be ashamed with crusades.

You wrote : Let Islam bring justice! let it bring justice to Pakistan courts![/QUOTE]

Islam brought peace all around the world, bur people are ones who do wrong, not Islam.
Even in Pakistan men are the one who make mistakes and evil deeds, not Islam.

So what I would like to suggest you is read more about Islam and you`ll see.
 

joepierre

New Member
This doesn't explain: "But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.

Corinthians 11-3"

But I don't want harass you ;)

Omar,

Don't worry, I don't feel harrassed. It is a pleasure to reply. Unfortunately at the moment I am moving house, so I don't have time to respond to all the good posts that people have left me, so forgive me if I am brief.

Sorry about leaving out the bit of the verse you mentioned.

It is true that in Christian circles the role of men and women are debated a lot, using the very verses you quoted. It is a difficult section, and I don't know the exact meaning. What I can do at this stage is to suggest some things that it doesn't mean:

Virtually all Christians will agree that the verse does NOT mean that men have superior abilities, talents or minds to women. Further it does not mean that women are in any way inferior to men or that men excel over women in any way.
If any submission of women is to occur, it is to be voluntary and not enforced. That is, a man does not have the right to make a woman submit to any male leadership if she doesn't want to. That is between her and Allah.
The relationship between Christ and God is characterised by voluntary submission, not domination.
Further, the relationship between people is to be based in love, not submission or domination. The Bible also says "Dear Friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love." (1 John 4:7-8).

Thanks for your questions, now I have a question about the Bible for you: What does this mean? "It is by grace that you have been saved, through faith - and this is not from yourselves, it is a gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) (NIV)

And of course, I don't want to harrass you either. ;)

Peace,
JP
 

joepierre

New Member
Thankyou brother for your well thought out reply.
First to clarify, I was explaining about what the Bible teaches, rather than my own opinion. In any case, your replies from the Qu'ran address the issues well - except for the last bit (quoted below)


In your opinion jesus is wounded and crushed for our sins, but the bible teaches ( and this a contradiction) that no one is punished for the sins of others but only for his sin (Deuteronomy 24:16).

and read what Allah teaches us:

“No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another.” (Quran 6:164)

Is it fair to put someone else in jail to forgive others. Allah can forgive every sin without punishing other who had no sin.


I agree with your end statement about fairness. It is grossly unfair for an innocent person to be punished for the sins of another person. There is only one exception to this, if a person commits a sin against another and it is that person who takes the punishment, it is not injustice, it is generosity.

For example: If Imran steals some money from Irshad, Imran has done wrong against Irshad.
Justice is if Imran returns all the money to Irshad.
Injustice is if we make Shahid pay his money to Irshad (because Shahid is innocent).
But if Irshad says to Imran "you can keep the money", that is not injustice, that is generosity (or grace).
Notice that being generous cost Irshad something - that is, the punishment (or cost) had to be paid by somebody or there would be no justice.

So getting back to real life, we know that our sins are against God, even the ones that we do against each other (eg stealing). Jesus' punishment for people's sins will be generosity rather than injustice ONLY if Jesus is actually God. So when Jesus was punished in our place, it was an act of mercy by God (because he took the punishment himself) and it was an act of justice because the punishment was paid.

That, I think, is what the Bible teaches.

Peace.
 

joepierre

New Member
Hi Newusman,
Thankyou for your quote. I'm glad you took the opportunity to reply.


Firslty I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity.


• There were and are no proper schools, colleges or universities in Afghanistan since the cold war period, so what kind of schools or colleges are you talking about
• You make it sound as if all the Afghan male population went to schools and colleges and they are all literate while the females stayed at home (as according to you they were “prevented from going to school in the name of Islam.” Well if Afghanis male were literate then they wouldn’t be occupied by US and NATO forces and they won’t have warlords ruling over them.
• Muslims in Afghanistan don’t even have proper food to eat, they don’t have clean water to drink, they don’t have medicine to treat the ill and they have been in a state of war since 1979, you really don’t expect them to go university in such a state (regardless of gender).
• Yeah InshALLAH I would like to help my sisters in Afghanistan by first stopping the indiscriminate killing of civilians.

There were and are schools there all along, of course not as nice most of the world, but enough to get some education. Some colleges, though damaged and struggling stayed open throughout. so some (of course, very small number) did go to college.

The literacy rate in Afghanistan is now about 30% amoung men and much lower amoung women. While the Taliban were in power, they prevented girls from going to school beyond 4th grade. (I originally added "in the name of Islam" because that's the reason the Taliban gave, but you could rightly argue that they got it wrong so it wasn't in the name of true Islam - fair enough).

Why does literacy make a difference to having warlord rule or Nato/US involved?

2) Will you help those sisters who are cheated and abused? - whose punishment for talking to a 12 year old boy is sanctioned gang rape? (Pakistan 2002)
Answer:
• Well taking a one off incident from Pakistan really doesn’t mean that the Pakistani govt. has a law to gang rape women who talk with men over the phone. Firstly whoever did this should be brought to justice.
• If I were to look at statistics then let’s have a look at stats of U.S where every 9 seconds a women is assaulted or beaten. 4000000 women a year are assaulted by their partners, everyday 4 women are murdered by boyfriends or husbands. To have a look at more click on http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/stats.htm
• Oh yeah and lets not forget Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo bay and also lets keep in mind the US soldiers involved in the GANG RAPE of a 14 year old Muslim girl in IRAQ. All of this is from the DEFENDERS of the “Free Society”.
• Sexual Abuse By Military Recruiters
More Than 100 Women Raped Or Assaulted By Recruiters In Past Year http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/19/national/main1913849.shtml
The one off incident from Pakistan did make headlines and the men were (eventually) brought to justice and the woman compensated. Also I was really happy to hear today that Pakistan has amended its rape laws to move them back in the penal system. That means that women who accuse men of rape are much less likely to be accused and punished for adultery. This is great news and a tribute to Musharaf and others who have fought hard to bring this change about.

I am not sure of the point of the rest of your quote here. Are you trying to see who behaves the worst? An attack on others is not a defence of yourself. If it helps, you may want to know that I too have been a long standing opponent of the Iraq war (and Afghanistan) and alot of US foreign policy and I am equally appaulled by what you write.

3 & 4) Will you help those women who are not allowed by law to drive their chevys to achieve such a priviledge? (Saudi Arabia) ,
Will you help women acheive equality to any male where they are not considered equal? (Pakistan, 1 male witness = 2 female witnesses in court)
Answer:
• Well if Saudi women (by majority) don’t have a problem, for not being allowed to drive, then who are you to question? With my own experience in Saudi, women are given respect and taken care of more I have ever seen before, the male has to do everything, while literally the women is the Queen of the house.
Following has been taken from this website. Do visit it to clear you misconceptions and for a detailed explanation.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html
• “Men and women are different in their responsibilities towards the families that they are strongly encouraged to set up. Women are not obligated to work, whereas men are obligated. The man must provide for the family, but the woman does not have to spend out of her money for it, though she gets a reward for doing so. Allah says in the Qur'an (translation),

[4:34] Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. “

For more detail on the women driving issue click on the following link
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=45880&ln=eng&txt=women driving

One of the things to be noted is that none of the Muslim majority countries or the so called sharia countries these days follow sharia in totality.
Thanks

Well have heard several accounts from women in Saudi Arabia - including some first hand ones - which differ greatly to yours. But I am sure that in any large group of people you will find diversity of opinion.

From the link you supplied about women driving in Saudi Arabia, it includes the following as reason #7
"7 – When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that. "

Are you serious? Are you telling me this is one of the good reasons? Why are men more deserving? Ask Jenn if she thinks they are.

Lastly, you haven't yet answered this

"Will you help women acheive equality to any male where they are not considered equal? (Pakistan, 1 male witness = 2 female witnesses in court)"
As far as I know, the recent law change in Pakistan does not change this. Please let me know if it has.
Thanks
 

Imad

Junior Member
assalamoealaikoem warahmatullahi wabarakatuh dear brothers and sisters,

Hello JoePierre,

Thank you for your answer.All praise to Allah you agree with me about the first two verses from the Quran. This according to your reply, if i am wrong tell me the opposite. So no curse and no sin.

If you agree with me, why are you defending the opinion:" jesus has died for our sins".

I also have noticed that you believe jesus is God, is this true?

According to the bible jesus prayed to God, so how can a God pray to another God.?

If jesus was a God ( according to bible) and he wanted to sacrifice himself why did he say: " Eli Eli Lama sabachtani" d you know what this means?

Thank you i will wait on your answer,

Wassalamoeaalakoem warahmatullahi wabarakatuh dear brothers and sisters,
 

NewMuslim

Slave of Allah
:salam2: all Brothers/Sisters in Islam.
I see that there is a mini-debate against Christianity going on here. If this is in the wrong place, please tell me as I have only seen the past 2 posts and assumed there was a debate going on.

I'd like to contribute with some questions:

1) Why does Paul contradict Jesus?

2) Why is Paul such a sexist (I.E Women should never speak in church)

3) Why do Christians "pick and choose" in the Bible which parts to take literally and which ones to not do so? If it's trully God's Holy Word, wouldn't all understand it equally?

4) How come Christians believe that the Bible is 100% accurate even though the Gospels were written down way after the lives of the Apostles? Even if it was passed down orally and then written, don't you think there would be some corruptions after it was written?

5) Why is there no mention of the Trinity in the Bible? Why would God want to confuse His people as to not mentioning such an earth-shaking belief in His Holy Book?

6) Why, at the Council of Nicea, was the Bible put together? Who's to say that the people (who were Christian humans, BTW) didn't "pick and choose", as modern Christians do, so that the Bible agrees with their theologies?

7) Why did the Council of Nicea ban the Apocalypse of Peter (which, might I add, was written by Peter himself and contradicted current Christian theologies)?

8) How the heck did crucified Jesus "not break a bone in his body" (there's an Old Testament verse saying this I think in Isaiah)? Wouldn't him "not breaking a bone in his body" sugest that he wasn't crucified at all?

9) Why didn't God forgive Adam and Eve (as He did according to the Qur'an)? Why can God forgive me of killing 100 people if I asked, but not forgive a man and woman for eating an apple?

10) "Adam, where art thou?" were the words of God according to the Bible book of Genesis. God is All-Knowing, so why would He ask a question? The same can be asked with the verse: "Woman, why weapest thou?" (which Jesus said according to the Bible).

11) Why do some Christians try and disprove Islam by saying "Allah isn't loving because He doesn't always forgive His servents"? The mere fact that the Christians say that "God will always forgive them of their sins" tells me that God isn't God, seeing as to how He must forgive you of your sins. If He doesn't have to forgive you of your sins, then that attempted Islam rebutal is dead.

12) God is eternal, correct? Then this raises two questions:

12a) If God is eternal, and Jesus is God, then how is Jesus God's son? His begotten son?

12b) If God is eternal, and Jesus is God, then why did Jesus die? If something is eternal, death is not possible.

I'll come up with more later. But, Alhamduallah for these refutals were revealed to me from Allah. I couldn't possibly have come up with these by myself.
 
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